8-Man Stacks

[dither]

In Parson's Klog #4 it's mentioned that since a stack's bonus maxes out at 8, you see lots of 8-man formations.

I wonder if it has occurred to many Erfworlders that as soon as you lose a guy in an 8-man stack, your bonus is not longer "maxed out." They seem to be fatally optimistic in this regard, whereas it would be a lot more practical to assume there will be losses and make stacks that include at least 12.

Lanchester's Square Law
I'm not positive, given that I just encountered this concept today, but if I've understood it correctly, even if the stack's bonus maxes out at 8 units, the relative power of two units, based solely on their numbers should be:
12 units = 144 power
8 units = 64 power

For the purpose of the article, which mentions the Linear Law and the Square Law, I think Erfworld more closely relates to modern warfare, and therefore the Square Law, given the artillery-like and/or tank-like nature of some of the units, such as battle bears (can't think of a ranged unit at the moment) and dwagons.

The stack of twelve would more than twice as powerful as the stack of eight, and the stack of eight would lose their bonus and become weaker with each loss, whereas the stack of twelve would have to lose a third of their number before they would lose their "8-man stack bonus."

...

Actually, since I've given it a little more thought since then, the Square Law would *not* apply for the 8-man formations unless they were the tank-like units, since that's what the Law was based on. Regular sword-wielding units would still have power based on the Linear Law, because that's what it was designed for. =P

[Gez]

Don't forget that this is a universe that works according to game-like rules. It's very possible the stack bonus applies for the whole duration of the battle, and is only reevaluated once the battle is won (or lost in retreat).

If so, then there's no bonus-related reason to have 12 units rather than 8. Even if seven of them are killed, the last survivor will still get a +8 bonus until the fight is over.

[Gdrad]

Its also not discussed how large a stack can actually get.
Further there has been no discussion on max number of attackers at once.

There should be some reason that a stack of 20 marbits isn't able to just swarm a stack of 8. Otherwise you'd still see brute squads rolling around.

[TiamatRoar]

Yea, there would be nothing to stop Ansom from cramming the entire alliance into one stack if there werent' any limits involved.

[dither]

Yea, there would be nothing to stop Ansom from cramming the entire alliance into one stack if there werent' any limits involved.

There would, too.

It's called A.O.E.

Just 'cause we haven't seen any spell effects resembling a fireball doesn't mean there aren't any. I'm sure there are practical reasons why a stack can only be so large...

"Nuclear launch detected."
--StarCraft

[dither]

Don't forget that this is a universe that works according to game-like rules. It's very possible the stack bonus applies for the whole duration of the battle, and is only reevaluated once the battle is won (or lost in retreat).

If so, then there's no bonus-related reason to have 12 units rather than 8. Even if seven of them are killed, the last survivor will still get a +8 bonus until the fight is over.

That seems unlikely. While the war seems to go in turns, the battles seem to go in Real-Time once enemy stacks engage one another. Once a warlord was croaked, he would no longer be able to order his stack not to engage an enemy, for example. They would be forced to auto-attack until they could be withdrawn by other means.

I would think that as soon as a unit croaks, it stops providing a bonus.

[jindra34]

That seems unlikely. While the war seems to go in turns, the battles seem to go in Real-Time once enemy stacks engage one another. Once a warlord was croaked, he would no longer be able to order his stack not to engage an enemy, for example. They would be forced to auto-attack until they could be withdrawn by other means.

I would think that as soon as a unit croaks, it stops providing a bonus.

When did we see this in action?

[dither]

When did we see this in action?

What I said was conjecture, not fact.

[Vethyx]

Here is the math as it makes sense to me. This may not be the way it is, but it appeals to the 'common sense' approach of doing things

Two sides oppose each other. For the sake of argument, and easier math, lets assume all units have stats of +1 across the board. (1 hit, 1 combat, 1 defense, whatever)
Each side has 96 units. Side A arrays itself in stacks of 8, side B arrays itself in stacks of 12.

Side A breakdown
96 total units.
Stack size = 8
Number of stacks = 12
Stack bonus = +8
Twelve stacks with +8 bonus = +96 bonus damage.


Side B breakdown
96 total units
Stack size = 12
number of stacks = 8
Stack bonus = +8
Eight stacks with +8 bonus = +64 bonus damage

Thats why you use 8 man formations. All other things being equal, you always arrange your units to take the best advantage of available bonuses :P

PS. No the math above is not wrong. Yes Technically all units will receive the same bonus as long as they are part of a stack of at least 8 units. The difference is only apparent in a system like Erfworld where stacks attack stacks, and don't fight on a single unit vs unit basis. (think in warhammer terms where units take squad damage, and units only die when damage greater than the life of a unit is dealt)