Is elemental swarm good?

[magicalmagicman]

I like how it lasts a long time but the creatures summoned are a bit underwhelming. Without rashemi elemental summoning for full blasting with cone of cold, it seems underwhelming, and even with the feat thee cones of cold will have crap CL for overcoming SR.

So... to you druids out there, is elemental swarm any good?

I think it would look nice to have an elemental entourage while you shapechange into an elemental while casting elemental monolith, but if the entourage is all dead weight then its not worth wasting level 9 spell slots for.

[Mr Adventurer]

I have never seen the point of it, myself.

Elemental Monolith, on the other hand, is a terrific spell.

[Zanos]

Elemental swarm is not good.

[Bronk]

It's the kind of spell that's best when used as part of a planned event, like an ambush or large scale battle. Otherwise, used on the fly in a battle, it takes too long for all of the summoned elementals to appear.

[Mr Adventurer]

Even in those situations, I'd say the spell's limitations are such that you'd be better off with a different spell.

[Fizban]

Large Elementals have DR 5/- making them almost unkillable for mundane troops, while also being intelligent and having fantastic movement modes. A normal summon spell only lasts 2 minutes or so, while this lasts 2 hours. It calls far more elementals than you can get even with a Greater Planar Ally or Gate and does so at no cost of xp or gp. The Shambler spell casts faster and lasts longer, but only produces Shambling Mounds, which have no DR or special movement modes.

Elemental Swarm is a spell for turning the tide of a mundane battle by quickly summoning a pile of creatures that normal people can't handle, the only downside is the short leash you must keep them on (medium range). Most 9th level spells won't do squat against an actual army because they're designed to kill small groups of monsters (especially in core). But if you can't find a way to wreck a mundane army with half a dozen intelligent mobile fires, or flying double speed cavalry whirlwinds, or golems that swim through the earth like fish, you shouldn't be on a battlefield.

It's the only spell that does what it does, and it does so pretty well. At least until you realize that Control Winds at the same cl for only a 5th level slot gives you a tornado 680' across for the same duration. That pretty much wins anything that's not a maze of tunnels or underwater-but weather magic doesn't do squat in dwarf warrens or against sahaugin invasions.

[Daddoo]

It's the only spell that does what it does, and it does so pretty well. At least until you realize that Control Winds at the same cl for only a 5th level slot gives you a tornado 680' across for the same duration. That pretty much wins anything that's not a maze of tunnels or underwater-but weather magic doesn't do squat in dwarf warrens or against sahaugin invasions.

Ever hear of a water spout? it's just a tornado on the water and just as deadly to anything near the surface.

[Zanos]

I don't think a spell being great and getting rid of lots of harmless mooks is really a selling point, especially for a 9th.

[jiriku]

It's weak for a 9th level spell. It would be great at 7th level and is ok-ish at 8th.

I have seen a player use it from an 8th level slot at the start of a day when the party was planning a combat-intensive dungeon crawl, and use it to summon earth elementals. The elementals tanked excellently, soaking hundreds of points of damage and taking a huge load off the party healer. However, juggling that many huge-size creatures in a confined dungeon environment was awkward and he couldn't deploy them effectively. They often got in the way. For an 8th level slot I think he got decent value for the investment, but the benefit was unsexy and not without drawbacks. Most players would probably prefer a less niche spell that's more dramatic and flashy.

[Fizban]

Ever hear of a water spout? it's just a tornado on the water and just as deadly to anything near the surface.

Unfortunately that's not how dnd works, if you want a waterspout you have to use the spell Waterspout (7th level) which only affects a 10' radius. Or you could use Malestrom at 8th for a 120' wide whirlpool. Either will be limited to the parts of the army that are in the shallows. Or you could summon a swarm of water elementals which will hunt them all the way to the bottom.

The common phrase I used describing Control Winds as a tornado is actually quite inaccurate: it really just blasts continuous tornado force winds in a direction/pattern of your choice for the duration of the spell, alterable at-will. You don't throw a tornado at them, you just smash the entire area with a sudden crosswind that likely kills half the army on the first round and the rest on the second. Even if your DM lets you use Control Winds to form a waterspout there's no way it's going to be that effective.

[magicalmagicman]

Yeah, I'm gonna stick with Hellish Horde. With shadowcraft mage everything lasts 6+ hours, which means you got a shadow bone devil spamming wall of ice nonstop for 6 hours XD.