Girl Genius XX: Endothermic Life Forms Are Inherently Heretical

[Shining Wrath]

I think the Librarians expected pursuit and were trying to lay a false trail to lead the pursuers astray, and got caught dawdling over rare tomes. Why this particular hunting lodge remains to be seen, but evidently the Library had not visited it before, otherwise the books would have been properly arranged according to the Incorruptible Library Sparky Decimal System and the most valuable tomes removed for safekeeping.

Also, serious snerk for "The Binding Arbitration of Faust", doubtless featuring Mephistopheles as someone who got Dr. Faustus to sign without reading the fine print.

I think Gil is running on Spark Fumes and probably needs some of Agatha's finest coffee right now.

[GaeasSon]

Smoke-knight theory:
OK, taking this FAR too seriously, and probably far too literally...
The smoke knights employ...
- Drugs. Lots of drugs both to enhance themselves (moveit#?), and to cloud the senses of others.
- Pre-loading with remedies and anti-toxins for the same.
- Extreme training in mental acuity and physical dexterity, probably enhanced by drugs.
- Ninja/magician style physical misdirection.
- Temporal control: A bit of time-bending could explain much of their hijinks... and it's well within the core plot technologies.
- AND here's the big one that covers the real absurdities.... PERCEPTION CONTROL! Human minds, in real life, correlate, discard, and "smooth" inconsistent perceptions all the time. We tend to see what we expect. We filter for what we're looking for, often whether it's there or not. Now, just enhance that tendency (more drugs?) (an environmental trigger like sound pitch or tuned light?). You've grabbed the object. You KNOW you have it. Because you KNOW it (under the influence), you don't notice it being taken from you. Those perceptions are discarded as irrelevant. When something forces the dissonance to your conscious mind, you KNOW you were just holding something, so you imagine something to validate the perception. The impossibe props ARE impossible, but they seem more believable in the light of your recently misdirected perceptions. A special flash-bomb temporarily imprints an image of the smoke knight on your retna. You KNOW she's standing right there... except she's not, so you imagine a cardboard prop of her. BUT the illusion and misdirection are predicated on your faith in your own perceptions. Once you know how it's done, you can probably begin to see through it.

I don't think any of this would work on the Castle. It probably SHOULDN'T have worked on Prende, thus her surprise.

[geoduck]

Smoke-knight theory:
OK, taking this FAR too seriously, and probably far too literally...

Yeah, you've probably now given this more thought than the Foglios have.

[Ellen]

Have you not noticed what shortage there is on normal sane people?

Oops, good point.

[lord_khaine]

Smoke-knight theory:
OK, taking this FAR too seriously, and probably far too literally...
The smoke knights employ...

Yeah, you've probably now given this more thought than the Foglios have.

Sadly though, but yeah, kudos to you for comming up with an theory that explains why they can do their tricks, without at the same time being unbeatable fighting machines.

Temporal control and perception control in particular explains a lot about their style.
They can do things like switches and so, but only when not directly observed to prevent paradoxes forming. Hence all the different dummies and so on.

[Deliverance]

Smoke-knight theory:
OK, taking this FAR too seriously, and probably far too literally...
The smoke knights employ...
- Drugs. Lots of drugs both to enhance themselves (moveit#?), and to cloud the senses of others.
- Pre-loading with remedies and anti-toxins for the same.
- Extreme training in mental acuity and physical dexterity, probably enhanced by drugs.
- Ninja/magician style physical misdirection.
- Temporal control: A bit of time-bending could explain much of their hijinks... and it's well within the core plot technologies.
- AND here's the big one that covers the real absurdities.... PERCEPTION CONTROL! Human minds, in real life, correlate, discard, and "smooth" inconsistent perceptions all the time. We tend to see what we expect. We filter for what we're looking for, often whether it's there or not. Now, just enhance that tendency (more drugs?) (an environmental trigger like sound pitch or tuned light?). You've grabbed the object. You KNOW you have it. Because you KNOW it (under the influence), you don't notice it being taken from you. Those perceptions are discarded as irrelevant. When something forces the dissonance to your conscious mind, you KNOW you were just holding something, so you imagine something to validate the perception. The impossibe props ARE impossible, but they seem more believable in the light of your recently misdirected perceptions. A special flash-bomb temporarily imprints an image of the smoke knight on your retna. You KNOW she's standing right there... except she's not, so you imagine a cardboard prop of her. BUT the illusion and misdirection are predicated on your faith in your own perceptions. Once you know how it's done, you can probably begin to see through it.

Nice attempt, but somehow I don't see how you get from some people seeing through it (e.g. Violetta) showing Agatha that it is a cardboard prop by lifting it up and manhandling it to it being an imaginary cardboard popup that Agatha and the non-smoke knights create in their own imagination based on their faith in the own perceptions. Why would Violetta manhandle somebody elses' imaginary cardboard prop?

Alternatively, assuming for the sake of argument that Violetta thinks there is an (imaginary) cardboard prop based on her faith in her own perceptions, while the others think it is Madwa, are you seriously suggesting that Violetta is manhandling an imaginary cardboard prop in a way that convinces others that, by golly, it isn't Madwa, it is that (imaginary) cardboard prop Violetta (thinks) she's manhandling?

No, just like Vole doesn't knock over Tarvek by throwing an imaginary broom at him that Vole believes in after Violetta ninja-replaced his custom gun, I'm afraid I'll have to come down on the side of the impossibly props where Madwa is concerned are "real" for a certain value of real rather than imaginary.

Because even for Girl Genius, I think that arguing that they are imaginary is taking madness just one step too far.

[Rodin]

Nice attempt, but somehow I don't see how you get from some people seeing through it (e.g. Violetta) showing Agatha that it is a cardboard prop by lifting it up and manhandling it to it being an imaginary cardboard popup that Agatha and the non-smoke knights create in their own imagination based on their faith in the own perceptions. Why would Violetta manhandle somebody elses' imaginary cardboard prop?

Alternatively, assuming for the sake of argument that Violetta thinks there is an (imaginary) cardboard prop based on her faith in her own perceptions, while the others think it is Madwa, are you seriously suggesting that Violetta is manhandling an imaginary cardboard prop in a way that convinces others that, by golly, it isn't Madwa, it is that (imaginary) cardboard prop Violetta (thinks) she's manhandling?

No, just like Vole doesn't knock over Tarvek by throwing an imaginary broom at him that Vole believes in after Violetta ninja-replaced his custom gun, I'm afraid I'll have to come down on the side of the impossibly props where Madwa is concerned are "real" for a certain value of real rather than imaginary.

Because even for Girl Genius, I think that arguing that they are imaginary is taking madness just one step too far.

But what if there is no broom?

Woah.

[Ellen]

I'm sure someone can fix that hand . . . if they want to.

So, Tarvek is being taken to the same land where his distant relative (is the Storm King an ancestor or a distant uncle [weird uncles: the world needs more of them]) or what?) is running amuck. He's being taken by an underground route, increasing his chances of meeting Mole Men out to conquer the universe (as well as librarians) along with Seffie, Colette, and Jaegers (oh, my!).

And Gil seems likely to crash the party. Could get fun.

[geoduck]

Tarvek has stated that the Storm King is/was Tarvek's great-great-200-years-ago-grandfather on Tarvek's mother's side. Presumably the same is true of Tweedle, down through a different branch of their interconnected families.

[Grif]

Looks like Paris is going to be the next Castle arc now.

[Ellen]

I'm hoping he didn't have children with Euphrosynia, not because that would make Tarvek Agatha's distant cousin (after two hundred years, there could be cabbages with more common DNA with Agatha [and, given the way Sparks operate, there very well might be]). But, it makes me wonder why the Jaegers decided Tarvek's family weren't Heterodyne heirs (other than the fact that Tarvek's family never mastered the short list of virtues even the old Heterodynes were known for, like protecting their own [if you regularly slaughter cousins, I don't think you count as protecting your own]).

[CWater]

Oh Gil, we'll make a proper villain of you yet.

But is Bang then growing soft? She didn't even try to kill this guy!

[Adaon Nightwind]

Poor Librarian :( Gil is really deeply angry. He meant it when he said that he does no longer play nice.

[lord_khaine]

Nice attempt, but somehow I don't see how you get from some people seeing through it (e.g. Violetta) showing Agatha that it is a cardboard prop by lifting it up and manhandling it to it being an imaginary cardboard popup that Agatha and the non-smoke knights create in their own imagination based on their faith in the own perceptions. Why would Violetta manhandle somebody elses' imaginary cardboard prop?

Alternatively, assuming for the sake of argument that Violetta thinks there is an (imaginary) cardboard prop based on her faith in her own perceptions, while the others think it is Madwa, are you seriously suggesting that Violetta is manhandling an imaginary cardboard prop in a way that convinces others that, by golly, it isn't Madwa, it is that (imaginary) cardboard prop Violetta (thinks) she's manhandling?

No, just like Vole doesn't knock over Tarvek by throwing an imaginary broom at him that Vole believes in after Violetta ninja-replaced his custom gun, I'm afraid I'll have to come down on the side of the impossibly props where Madwa is concerned are "real" for a certain value of real rather than imaginary.

Because even for Girl Genius, I think that arguing that they are imaginary is taking madness just one step too far.

I kinda think you you got this wrong, there were newer any talk about any of the probs being imaginary.
The idea is more that temporal hijinx ect leads to replacement, while the perception part is what keeps people from noticing it being/having been done.

[eee]

Oh Gil, we'll make a proper villain of you yet.

But is Bang then growing soft? She didn't even try to kill this guy!

That would kill the giggle, as well. Better to leave him alive for the clean-up crew that are surely following Gil and her to deal with. He'll wake up in a prison infirmary wearing a t-shirt saying "I got kicked by Bangladesh DuPree and I'm still alive! O_O"

[GaeasSon]

I kinda think you you got this wrong, there were newer any talk about any of the probs being imaginary.
The idea is more that temporal hijinx ect leads to replacement, while the perception part is what keeps people from noticing it being/having been done.

Nope, the criticism was on target, and is valid. I was totally theorizing the props might be imaginary (at least some of the more absurd ones, as well as physical replacement with found objects when some are handy). As might the perception that the smoke-knights are manhandling or dodging the props. In fact, in my head-cannon the key element is a cologne that all the smoke knights wear "Eau de Confirmation Bias" that makes you see or feel anything you were already sure was true, and then rationalize any discrepancies, and hallucinate your rationalizations. But that would also serve to mask any time-swapping shenanigans.

[halfeye]

Oh Gil, we'll make a proper villain of you yet.

But is Bang then growing soft? She didn't even try to kill this guy!

She didn't?

She fooled me on that then. If we see him again, I expect a corpse, but I don't expect to see him again.

[Shining Wrath]

Never change, Bang.

Gil is showing some of his father's ruthlessness. Which does raise the "who's driving this car" question.

Voting against the idea that Smoke Knights do that voodoo that they do via hallucinations. It's hard to explain how that would work on other Smoke Knights or Prende. How do you release a scent that makes everyone but you hallucinate that also makes other people who release a scent that makes everyone but them hallucinate, hallucinate? If every Smoke Knight has their own particular chemical signature that's (1) hard to do and (2) every Smoke Knight is going to try to become immune to their fellows because that's what survival dictates.

[lord_khaine]

Nope, the criticism was on target, and is valid. I was totally theorizing the props might be imaginary (at least some of the more absurd ones, as well as physical replacement with found objects when some are handy). As might the perception that the smoke-knights are manhandling or dodging the props. In fact, in my head-cannon the key element is a cologne that all the smoke knights wear "Eau de Confirmation Bias" that makes you see or feel anything you were already sure was true, and then rationalize any discrepancies, and hallucinate your rationalizations. But that would also serve to mask any time-swapping shenanigans.

Oh, in that case fair enough, i thought your arguments pointed a lot more at temporal manipulation and slight of hands being used to actually put probs into position.

And yeah, do think the scent thing is to limited, would to start with have problems explaining how it worked with Prende.

[Shining Wrath]

Oh, in that case fair enough, i thought your arguments pointed a lot more at temporal manipulation and slight of hands being used to actually put probs into position.

And yeah, do think the scent thing is to limited, would to start with have problems explaining how it worked with Prende.

In a world full of clanks, something that relied on interacting with a human nervous system could be fatally limited. It's also hard to see how Violetta survived the Mechanicsberg Castle if her tricks require the target to be affected by scent - somehow, I just don't see the Castle as being susceptible to perfume at all.

I'm going to go with "ability to move really, really quickly" plus some sort of Bag of Holding extradimensional space to hold supplies for various tricks.

[Traab]

I just treat it as exaggerated sleight of hand. If you watch virtually any card trick magician and those "how it works" videos, you will see an INCREDIBLE amount of misdirection that 99 people out of 100 will never see. Pickpocket videos are the same as you watch a guy remove a womans watch, necklace, EARRINGS, empty her purse, and in general do all but strip her naked in the middle of the sidewalk, without her noticing a thing. All the foglios have to do is crank it up to 11 and you get smoke knights. Able to steal entire people out of your grasp without you noticing for a few vital seconds.

I think I remember reading somewhere that people tend to ignore or otherwise discard over 90% of what they see. There is just too much information to process it all, so your brain filters it out. So by avoiding triggering the brain to specifically notice something, you can get away with an absurd amount of action without getting caught. The rest is a lot of speed and reaction training so you can exploit that instant they lose focus.

[Drascin]

Yeah, basically I think people are just looking for things when the obvious explanation is that they're just mad-science-world ninjas, and near-magical feats of misdirection is what ninjas do.

[The Glyphstone]

Smoke Knights are masters of dimensional science. Specifically, they can travel through the fourth wall. This explains their impossible feats and why no one else can spot them, even other Smoke Knights. Also, they are merciful in that they merely alter forum posts rather than murder those who discover their secrets.

[eschmenk]

Smoke Knights are masters of dimensional science. Specifically, they can travel through the fourth wall. This explains their impossible feats and why no one else can spot them, even other Smoke Knights.Also, they are merciful in that they merely alter forum posts rather than murder those who discover their secrets.

It's been nice knowing you.

[Rockphed]

It's been nice knowing you.

You have enjoyed knowing GitP's resident Eldritch Horror? Know you not that were he to remove his pleasant seeming mask we would all go mad, mad I say, within a fortnight!?!?!? Beware! Beware the tentacle that comes from below! There is more than popcorn in that cart! Beware!

Ahem. I like Glyphstone's idea. Do we see smoke knights interacting with the fourth wall anywhere? Leaning on panel dividers, perhaps?

Also relevant, Sure. I know, deep in my heart, that I really, really, really don't want to get munched by that thing.

[Scarlet Knight]

Should I worry about myself?

In panel 11, I saw Bangs fist and mistook it for a tear in her sweater and thought " Awright , Phil...we get some breast!"

Then I saw panel 12 and went "aaaaw!"

[eschmenk]

Ahem. I like Glyphstone's idea. Do we see smoke knights interacting with the fourth wall anywhere? Leaning on panel dividers, perhaps?

Or maybe going through the fourth wall to do horrible things to people who figured out their secrets and started blabbing about it?
No, but this is the one warning you will receive before more drastic action is taken to silence you.

[Ellen]

I did taw a puddy cat!

Or, I saw a mechanical giraffe that looks rather like the mechanical dragon the brothers are fighting.

http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comi...6#.V3NIk_krK1s

I don't suppose it means much except that the Storm King or a famous opera composer designed the defenses.

So, when did the Storm King have descendants? The opera seems to take it for granted that he never married Euphrosynia. Who was/were the mom/mommies and were they before/after/during Euphrosynia?

Am I thinking about the family trees too much? Maybe all we really need to know about Tarvek's tree is that you don't have to shake it too hard to have a few nuts fall out.

[geoduck]

So, when did the Storm King have descendants? The opera seems to take it for granted that he never married Euphrosynia. Who was/were the mom/mommies and were they before/after/during Euphrosynia?

While in Castle Heterodyne:
Zola: Fine. I'm the Heterodyne - and I'm allied with the Storm King. A direct descendant of Andronicus Valois!
Gil: Zola, if the stories are true, half of Europa-
Zola: One the Fifty Families will recognize!

[Shining Wrath]

If Dimo were there, he'd tell Larana that any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan.