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2016-06-01, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
Help me understand when I get an Aoo
so lately I've been posting a lot about my Aoo build but now I want to know what all triggers An AOO from me
I have Karmic Strike Robilar's Gambit and Martial stance: Thicket of Blade with those and the regular rules how many would trigger
I have A dex mod of 11 so I am curious with combat Reflexe how many Aoo could I pull of in a round if given the chance
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2016-06-01, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Provoking an Attack of Opportunity
Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.
Moving
Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.
Performing a Distracting Act
Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.
Remember that even actions that normally provoke attacks of opportunity may have exceptions to this rule.
Making an Attack of Opportunity
An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and you can only make one per round. You don’t have to make an attack of opportunity if you don’t want to.
An experienced character gets additional regular melee attacks (by using the full attack action), but at a lower attack bonus. You make your attack of opportunity, however, at your normal attack bonus—even if you’ve already attacked in the round.
An attack of opportunity "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character’s turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character’s turn).
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
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2016-06-01, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
well I have two questions
first with combat reflex and the following to feats Karmic Strike & Robilar's Gambit would I get two Aoo if my foe trys strike in melee and manages to connect with a blow?
also for thicket of blades what all do they mean by movement. moving from one square to another or any body movements down in a square I attack?
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2016-06-01, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Yes, one AoO triggers from the attempt to attack and the other triggers when it lands.
also for thicket of blades what all do they mean by movement. moving from one square to another or any body movements down in a square I attack?
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2016-06-01, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
You've made several different threads now, all asking for help with the same AoO build. (Which should have been one thread to begin with. This is a pattern.) And now you're saying you don't actually get AoOs?
Don't you think this should have been the first thing you asked? "Hey, guys, I'm thinking of building an AoO build. Can you tell me how AoOs work?" Aren't you three or four threads late to the game at this point, especially given that the DM has apparently already approved your build?My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2016-06-01, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-01, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
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2016-06-01, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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2016-06-01, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
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2016-06-01, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
There is reasonable contention about whether Karmic Strike and Robilar's Gambit can be used at the same time. Why? Because Attacks of Opportunity are based on triggering events that are derived from discrete movements and both of these apply to the same discrete movement even though they both have slightly different language as to what is "triggering" the AoO.
So check with your GM if he's fine with you using both at the same time.
For my perspective, they stack, so I'll address them like they do. (Why? because you spent the feats and took the penalties, why NOT let them stack.)
You are now at -4 AC and the opponent has +4 to hit and +4 to damage. So its the equivalent of -8 to AC. ouch.
with a dexterity MODIFIER of 11 (meaning a dexterity score of 32 to 33) and combat reflexes you have up to 11 AoO a round. Now you just have to find the triggers to set them off.
When an opponent swings at you, Robilar's triggers (but you don't roll it until after he does his attack and damage)
When an opponent swings AND HITS you, Karmic strike triggers (and hits simultanously)
So every time you are melee or missile attacked by someone within your threatened range, you get to do one of the following.
Enemy Swings at you and HITS doing 18 damage
You simultaneously swing at him and HIT doing 9 damage (Karmic)
You then swing again ant hit doing 17 damage. (Robilars)
or
Enemy Swings at you and MISSES (seems unlikely with your -8 AC equivalence)
You swing at him doing 17 damage (Robilars)
Outside of that feat-driven interaction, you get additional AoO based on the enemy movement. If I remember from your numerous and repetitive prior threads, you have a reach weapon. Whatever your reach is, whenever an opponent moves OUT of a square you threaten you get an attack. You only get ONE attack per opponent per movement per this line: "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent." So if the guy runs around you exiting like 10 squares you threaten in a round, you still only get one attack for that guy's movement. Even if he moves through your space to an area outside your threatened area, then back in and out, still only one attack.
Normally you wouldn't get an attack if they moved using Withdraw or a 5' step, but with Thicket of Blades you do. I have seen an argument that thicket of blades overrides the rule of one attack per opponent per move action and lets you make multiple attacks of opportunity if they move out of multiple threatened squares. I don't find that to be a compelling argument.Last edited by Gallowglass; 2016-06-01 at 03:24 PM.
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2016-06-01, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-01, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
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2016-06-01, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
I do homebrew now, apparently!
Oath of Asceticsim (5e Paladin Archetype)
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2016-06-01, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-01, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Oh 11 mod? They tossing a green player straight into high levels?
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2016-06-01, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Hm, after rereading the relevant sections this is only made explicit for moving out of a threatened square:
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
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2016-06-01, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-01, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2016-06-01, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-01, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Additionally, you haven't responded to most of the advice people have given. It's not clear whether you're choosing to ignore the advice or just haven't seen it - if the latter is the case, it would likely be solved by sticking to a single thread, and if the former is the case, explaining why you're choosing to ignore the advice would go a long way toward helping people figure out what exactly you're trying to go for.
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2016-06-01, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Dex Modifier of 11 = 12 AoO per round with Combat Reflexes.
Thicket of Blades: When someone makes any kind of square-to-square movement in the area you threaten, it provokes an AoO from you.
Karmic Strike: When you are struck by a melee attack or melee touch attack, the attacker provokes an AoO from you. Each time you're struck is a different opportunity in the case of multiple attacks striking you in a round.
Robilar's Gambit: When you are attacked in melee (not necessarily struck) the attacker provokes an AoO from you "each time they swing." The quoted phrase is directly from the book text of the feat, with my emphasis.
Now remember that AoO's for movement are provoked by leaving a threatened square, not entering one. If you have a 5' reach, someone running into melee range and attacking you will not provoke an AoO from Thicket of Blades, but will provoke one from Robilar's Gambit every time they attack you. If they actually hit you with any of their attacks, Karmic Strike grants you an AoO for each hit they land.
With 10' or more reach, this same attacker will provoke an AoO from you for their movement as they move from 10' out to adjacent to you, because they leave a threatened square. They'll only provoke one from movement, however. You won't get one AoO for every threatened square they leave, you just get one for their movement.
The next round, once they realize what a bad idea it is to attack you in melee, they'll likely try to move away. If they try the Withdraw action, which normally treats the square they're in at the start of their move as not being threatened by you, Thicket of Blades overrides that and you can take an AoO when they leave their initial square. Similarly, if anyone you threaten tries to take a 5' step such as to move into a flanking position, they provoke an AoO as well due to Thicket of Blades.
One thing to keep in mind is the Spring Attack feat. That will be up to DM interpretation because it's pitting two exceptions to the rules against each other. Be prepared for your DM to say that movement via Spring Attack doesn't provoke AoO's, even from Thicket of Blades.
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2016-06-01, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
This seems apropos: As Simple As Calculus.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2016-06-01, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2014
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Hope it helpsLast edited by Barbarian Horde; 2016-06-01 at 09:20 PM.
"Touch my rice bowl will you... Summon the commoner warlocks!" "We have gathered the material components my lord!" millions of chickens died that day.
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2016-06-01, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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2016-06-01, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-01, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
my bad not trying to ignore any one
and I make many threads cause I make them as my questions pop in to my head
see i'm not sure when this game will start as its a side story to the main one I am that we will play when two of the players can't make it to the sessions.
I just never did an aoo build and I need some ways to show my DM who dose not use aoo in his own builds most of time when my character would get an Aoo and we figure most people here having been playing for a heck of a lot longer than us . so we figure people here would understand the rules better.
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2016-06-02, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Sunder is a standard action. Full attack sunder may or may not exist in some form of feat cheese, but if it does, I guarantee imp sunder is a prerequisite
The rule you're looking for is here
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
Deja frickin Vu. I can see where this is headed. Perhaps I can point you to it
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...nbalanced-team
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2016-06-02, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
But again, we could go 'round and 'round on this, as I'm sure you are aware.
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2016-06-02, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
This does not prohibit the same actions triggering multiple AoO, it only prevents single opportunities from provoking. So if you, for some reason, had two iterations of or variations of Karmic Strike and got hit, you couldn't use multiple AoO from the opportunity of getting hit. However attacking can easily be seen as a separate opportunity from getting hit. Think the master swordsman making immediate counter attacks against the fighter with bad form vs the gamble of taking the sword in the gut so you can get in close enough for a strike.
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2016-06-02, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
Re: Help me understand when I get an Aoo
I'm aware, I learned not to argue this build in the linked thread. I was just linking the relevant ruling others were trying to find.
It's all murky language and bad splatbooks. Basically it's up to the DM how much cheese he likes on his player sandwich.
I will not bend on this point however, I don't care what knock back feat says, you must use trip weapons to make trip attacks and the feat does NOT specify that you can ignore this rule.