Class and Level Geekery II

[Lavidor]

Well, not looking through the thread:

Shojo (deceased)
Chaotic Good Male Human 14 Aristocrat
? Strength
? Dxeterity
? Constitution
? Intelligence
? Wisdom
? Charisma
Skills: ?
Feats: Improved Paranoia, ?

Not much.

[RMS Oceanic]

Miko is strong enough to break open an iron bar, even if it was slightly damaged. What do you think the DC of doing that unarmed was, and what strength can we derive from this?

[ZeroNumerous]

To me, it looks less like she used a strength check to break it and more like she just attacked it until it broke.

[RMS Oceanic]

True, but she did it in about three attacks with what I assume is her unarmed strike. Assuming she's a Level 2 monk, that's 1d6+Str a pop, and she has to overcome hardness. Any ideas about the strength?

[Zeb The Troll]

I disagree that she has to overcome hardness. The bar was weakened so all she had to do was strike at the weakened point until it broke. I also don't think we can say definitively that it only took three attacks. We just happen to have only seen three of them.

[Spiryt]

DCs to Break or Burst Items
Strength Check to: DC
Break down simple door 13
Break down good door 18
Break down strong door 23
Burst rope bonds 23
Bend iron bars 24
Break down barred door 25
Burst chain bonds 26
Break down iron door 28
Condition DC Adjustment1
Hold portal +5
Arcane lock +10

If an item has lost half or more of its hit points, the DC to break it drops by 2.


We can assume that she just had three atempts, and third was succesful...
Beacuse according to D&D rules previos atempts do not help the final one at all.
Anyway even if we consider that Iron bar has 22 or even only 20 DC, she did it very fast, so in my opinion she must have min. 16 strenght. And even then she had to roll 17 or even 19.

[Zeb The Troll]

We can assume that she just had three atempts, and third was succesful...
Beacuse according to D&D rules previos atempts do not help the final one at all.
Anyway even if we consider that Iron bar has 22 or even only 20 DC, she did it very fast, so in my opinion she must have min. 16 strenght. And even then she had to roll 17 or even 19.

We can't make any such assumptions on a DC check. How fast it happens is only indicative of how many rolls it took to get the necessary number. You can roll eight 1's in a row even if you only need a 2 or you can roll a 20 on the first shot even if you needed a 20 to succeed.

We also can't say with any certainty how many tries it took.

Q: Hey, in Panel X, the character is doing Y, but in Panel X+1, the character is doing Z. What happened?

A: Between panels, the character moved/cast a spell/had a spell cast on him/etc. There are limited panels in each strip, and I give priority to panels that tell jokes first, then advance the plot, and then, only if I have extra room, do I show transitional panels that are not strictly necessary. Use your imagination when it comes to exactly how it happened.

If she took 20, he wouldn't have shown the full elapsed time round by round.

[RMS Oceanic]

Normally I'd agree, but since the speech is continual in the three panels, we can assume those attempts took place in immediate succession. She may have struck once or twice before she started speaking, but those three attempts definately damaged the bar (seeing how it's bent).

Iron has a hardness of 10 (ignore first 10 points of damage), and 30 hp per inch, almost impossible for a monk of Miko's level to damage without having 20+ strength. It seems to me (although there is no proof) that by attacking the crack, Miko exploited a weak point which bypassed hardness, and some damage had already been done.

Admittedly, it's impossible to tell without knowing the exact composition of the bars and how badly damaged they were.

[lord_khaine]

or she might have used Power Attack to raise her unarmed damage to something around 1d6+17, more than enough to beat the hardness.

[Kreistor]

Okay, 461 just released. Miko just walked into the throne room without picking up a longsword. The sword in your hand is better than the katana on the floor... unless your unarmed damage is 1D8. That requires Miko to have four monk levels, not two. If she does, then her unarmed attacks are also magic, which allows her to hit Xykon or Soon. Either way, Miko may be about to reveal something more definitive of her monk levels.

So, yes, this is just speculation at the moment, but it looks to me that if Miko plans on fighting in 462, she's Monk 4, or else she's not planning on fighting.

[lord_khaine]

actualy, even then a katana is a better weapon, since its has a better critt range.

anyway, whats the general opinion around whereever Miko has Power attack?
it would have helped her break the bars, and kill those goblings unarmed, and she kinda hintet at having it when she fought the monster in the darkness.

[RMS Oceanic]

Yeah, I think she has Power Attack. Talking about hitting with more power to deal more damage is pretty much what Power Attack is. This implies she is at least character level 15, with 9 feats (6 normal, 1 human, 2 monk).

[Zeb The Troll]

Speaking of Miko feats, do we have enough to say she's probably got Cleave based on #461 panel 3?

[Spiryt]

Speaking of Miko feats, do we have enough to say she's probably got Cleave based on #461 panel 3?

It's questionable - Miko didn't even touched him, but who said that she had to.
Energy of her kick was so insane that ripped head strike other hobo to death.
Interesting theory

[Zeb The Troll]

Well, something happened to let her kill two of them in one attack, that was just the simplest solution that came to mind. It's as good a way as any to depict an unarmed cleave attack. And would also confirm that Power Attack theory being discussed.

[Glorfindel]

This comic more or less implies she has Power Attack.

[Vargtass]

Well, something happened to let her kill two of them in one attack, that was just the simplest solution that came to mind. It's as good a way as any to depict an unarmed cleave attack. And would also confirm that Power Attack theory being discussed.

I second the Power Attack and Cleave conclusion. I do not think we can infer more monk levels than two based on tactical decisions on Miko's part. After all, she is in delusional mode right now...

[Post]

Monks get cleave for free at first level.

[Zeb The Troll]

Monks get cleave for free at first level.

*checks two online SRD's*

I don't think so. Stunning Fist or Improved Grapple. Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows at second level.

[Post]

Ack, They used too.

[Kreistor]

I agree that Cleave is likely. It's a pretty good rendition of that feat in action.

[Wrecan]

I've been giving some thought to comic 450, where Belkar begins using the Eye of Fear and Flame (EoF&F) as a wand. It seems to me that Belkar does this through the use of Intimidate checks.

Intimidate is a d20+Skill+Cha, opposed by your opponent's d20+HD+Wis. In addition, Belkar would suffer a -4 penalty for being one size smaller than the EoF&F. (However, the EoF&F may have a lower Wis than usual for its kind, given its cowardice.)

My understand of an EoF&F is that it would generally get a +14. With the size differential, that's a +18. Thus, if Belkar has a Charisma bonus +0 (the most he likely has) and rolls a natural 20, he would beat the EoF&F (assuming Wisdom normal for its race) if it rolls a natural 1.

However, Intimidate is a cross-class skill for Rangers (though a class skill for Barbarians). Even if Belkar maxed out in that skill, he'd only have about 7-15 ranks in it. Still, this would explain why Belkar has no Skill ranks in Survival or Spot. He's been throwing his skill points away on Jump and cross-class skills like Intimidate!

Personally, I suspect that he has been maxing out on Climb, Craft (trapmaking), Intimdate, Jump and Move Silently. Now that Intimidate is no longer a cross-class skill, he's probably slotting as many skill points as possible to max this out to 15 ranks, which he may have done on with his 13th class level, if he devoted all his skill points on both Barbarian levels (assuming his 13th class level wa sin Barbarian) to Intimidate.

[Twilight Jack]

I've been giving some thought to comic 450, where Belkar begins using the Eye of Fear and Flame (EoF&F) as a wand. It seems to me that Belkar does this through the use of Intimidate checks.

Intimidate is a d20+Skill+Cha, opposed by your opponent's d20+HD+Wis. In addition, Belkar would suffer a -4 penalty for being one size smaller than the EoF&F. (However, the EoF&F may have a lower Wis than usual for its kind, given its cowardice.)

My understand of an EoF&F is that it would generally get a +14. With the size differential, that's a +18. Thus, if Belkar has a Charisma bonus +0 (the most he likely has) and rolls a natural 20, he would beat the EoF&F (assuming Wisdom normal for its race) if it rolls a natural 1.

However, Intimidate is a cross-class skill for Rangers (though a class skill for Barbarians). Even if Belkar maxed out in that skill, he'd only have about 7-15 ranks in it. Still, this would explain why Belkar has no Skill ranks in Survival or Spot. He's been throwing his skill points away on Jump and cross-class skills like Intimidate!

Personally, I suspect that he has been maxing out on Climb, Craft (trapmaking), Intimdate, Jump and Move Silently. Now that Intimidate is no longer a cross-class skill, he's probably slotting as many skill points as possible to max this out to 15 ranks, which he may have done on with his 13th class level, if he devoted all his skill points on both Barbarian levels (assuming his 13th class level wa sin Barbarian) to Intimidate.

Yes, but please note that Intimidate checks may be prone to circumstance modifiers at the DMs discretion. In my book, ripping off the EoFaF's head and carting it around counts as one hell of a circumstance (It might additionally alter the Eye's effective size to Tiny, being only a skull now, which further adjusts the situation in Belkar's favor).

[Wrecan]

Excellent points!

[baerdith]

if he devoted all his skill points on both Barbarian levels

What makes you think he had 2 Barb levels?

[Zeb The Troll]

What makes you think he had 2 Barb levels?

Well, we know for a fact he took one, and the party seems to have levelled since then so it's not outside the realm of possibilities. And he did say "assuming his 13th class level was in Barbarian". I'd say it's a reasonable speculation.

[RMS Oceanic]

While we're on the subject of Belkar, shouldn't we add the Eye of Fear and Flame to his possessions?

[Wrecan]

I can't decide if the Eye constitutes a cohort or an intelligent magic item.

[Wrecan]

I changed my mind. RMS Oceanic is correct. Belkar now owns the Eye of Fear and Flame!

[Borris]

If it takes a DC 24 Strength check to bend iron bars, and a damaged item has his break DC reduced by 2 (to 22 in this case), can we not conclude that Miko has at least a Strength of 14? Otherwise, she wouldn't have been able to break the bar even with a natural 20.

Of course, she might have just hit until she'd gone through the bar's hit point but, with a haredness of 10, that hardly seems a logical choice. Then again, we're talking about Miko here.