An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time II: Randy's Horny Hunt

[Psyren]

Apart from Aes Sedai (who are just about the only group without hats), I can't think of any Cairhienen we have met outside of the city...

The most prominent would be

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Talmanes Delovinde, Mat's right hand. This guy's a very straight shooter, especially by Cairhienin standards.

[Ninja_Prawn]

The most prominent would be

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Talmanes Delovinde, Mat's right hand. This guy's a very straight shooter, especially by Cairhienin standards.

True enough.

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Though we don't know what he was like before he met Mat, who has clearly had a deep, ta'veren-y influence on him. And he might just be refraining from the Game for lack of people to play it with.

[ryuplaneswalker]

'He knows I know she knows he knows they know I know, you know?'

I KNOW YOU KNOW

The most prominent would be

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Talmanes Delovinde, Mat's right hand. This guy's a very straight shooter, especially by Cairhienin standards.

He is also in the top ten of the best characters in the series.

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Rereading the series knowing that almost everything he says..is a joke of some sort makes him so much better.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I KNOW YOU KNOW

Ah, but He Knows You Know! (But he's got problems)

[Qwertystop]

'He knows I know she knows he knows they know I know, you know?'

More "Why won't he say anything beyond 'I'm not scheming, please leave me alone?' Perhaps the slight differences in phrasing are a code?"

[Feytalist]

He is also in the top ten of the best characters in the series.

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Rereading the series knowing that almost everything he says..is a joke of some sort makes him so much better.

Oh, certainly.

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But I admit that I was a bit disappointed when we get a viewpoint section from him and it's blatantly spelt out - his dry humour was fairly noticeable in any case, and I thought it would have been better left unsaid.

[Adderbane]

Apart from Aes Sedai (who are just about the only group without hats), I can't think of any Cairhienen we have met outside of the city...

Aes Sedai have hats, they're just assigned on a by-Ajah basis.

[Traab]

I dunno, in a way it makes sense. Every capitol area has its own culture and identity, and considering the tech phase this cycle of the wheel is on, its like comparing france to australia, to china. Yes there is a meeting of people, but the influence of multiculturalism isnt going to be as strong when the vast majority of people who travel tend to be merchants and maybe nobles. Everyone else tends to stay in the same area, where they have been raised to behave like this or that. Sure there will be outliers, but the majority will be similar, if only in broad strokes. France is a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys, australia is populated by mad max characters who evolved to deal with the fact that literally everything on that landmass wants to kill them, and china is a nation of floating martial artists. I mean im sure that there is at least ONE brave guy in france, and its possible there are a few clumsy people in china, but in the main it holds true.














Oh for gods sake of course im not serious!

[Anteros]

I mean im sure that there is at least ONE brave guy in france, and its possible there are a few clumsy people in china,

I'm gonna need some sort of proof for these ridiculous claims.

[Psyren]

True enough.

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Though we don't know what he was like before he met Mat, who has clearly had a deep, ta'veren-y influence on him. And he might just be refraining from the Game for lack of people to play it with.

I'm pretty sure he was always more general than politician. Otherwise he'd likely have gotten caught up in

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the power struggle between Galldrian and Barthanes, which AES is getting fairly close to, and likely died.

Aes Sedai have hats, they're just assigned on a by-Ajah basis.

Actually I think this is one of the cooler aspects of Aes Sedai - for all that they swear themselves to the Tower and Tar Valon, almost universally you can see at least some influence of the lands they came from.

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Examples include Moiraine's Cairhienin political savvy (and prudishness), Siuan's blunt and foul-mouthed Tairen peasant upbringing, Leane's Domani flirtatiousness, Cadsuane's Far Madding disdain for (or at least ingrained superiority to) men, Liandrin's Taraboner peasant envy of nobility etc.

[lord_khaine]

He is also in the top ten of the best characters in the series.

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it were certainly hilarious to discover he had been trolling everyone else the entire serie.
And his viewpoint chapter were a crowning moment of awesome.

Actually I think this is one of the cooler aspects of Aes Sedai - for all that they swear themselves to the Tower and Tar Valon, almost universally you can see at least some influence of the lands they came from.

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Cant see that in Cansuane, it seems more like a general disdain for everyone younger than herself, she threats everyone equally as kids.

[Seerow]

Guys please don't bait me into starting another reread just for that character. I'm almost done!

though if someone gives me a list of all chapters where he appears I might go back and reread those without complaint anyway...

[ryuplaneswalker]

Oh, certainly.

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But I admit that I was a bit disappointed when we get a viewpoint section from him and it's blatantly spelt out - his dry humour was fairly noticeable in any case, and I thought it would have been better left unsaid.

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Eh I like that he gets annoyed that nobody can tell he is joking.

[Misery Esquire]

though if someone gives me a list of all chapters where he appears I might go back and reread those without complaint anyway...

I have been kind of curious how the stories would read if one were to simply chop the books up and merge all of each character's stuff into their own volume. Ie; Book of Rand, Book of Mat, Book of Perrin, Elayne, Egwene, etc, etc. Consisting of whenever they are onscreen and their point of view pieces.

The group parts would end up repeating, but depending on the order you read them, it shouldn't repeat too much. Excluding the opening for Eye of the World going around... Seven or so times.

[Anteros]

I have been kind of curious how the stories would read if one were to simply chop the books up and merge all of each character's stuff into their own volume. Ie; Book of Rand, Book of Mat, Book of Perrin, Elayne, Egwene, etc, etc. Consisting of whenever they are onscreen and their point of view pieces.

The group parts would end up repeating, but depending on the order you read them, it shouldn't repeat too much. Excluding the opening for Eye of the World going around... Seven or so times.

It would be pretty jarring and jump around a lot. A lot of important character's plot points happen during other character's perspective chapters. You'd have to majorly re-write huge portions to make it work.

[Misery Esquire]

It would be pretty jarring and jump around a lot. A lot of important character's plot points happen during other character's perspective chapters. You'd have to majorly re-write huge portions to make it work.

If they are present in the chapter that chapter would be included in their amalgamation, though. So the only thing we'd lose is when people talk about someone who isn't there. /shrug

[Ninja_Prawn]

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Siuan's blunt and foul-mouthed Tairen peasant upbringing

Complete tangent, but...

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One of the things I love about Amyrlin!Egwene is how she's started spouting off about lionfish and silverpike... She such a cultural sponge!

Back on topic though, it's cool that the Aes Sedai have influences from their nationalities, Ajahs and other sources. It means that no two are alike, but it doesn't clash with the rest of the setting.

[Psyren]

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Cant see that in Cansuane, it seems more like a general disdain for everyone younger than herself, she threats everyone equally as kids.

Nah, Jordan himself

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stated that Far Madding's society is to blame for her attitude.

Complete tangent, but...

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One of the things I love about Amyrlin!Egwene is how she's started spouting off about lionfish and silverpike... She such a cultural sponge!

Back on topic though, it's cool that the Aes Sedai have influences from their nationalities, Ajahs and other sources. It means that no two are alike, but it doesn't clash with the rest of the setting.

That's indeed one of my favorite aspects of her character

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If she had ridden a Sea Folk vessel with the other two, next thing you know she'd have rings in her nose and be baring her boobs everywhere.

[lord_khaine]

Nah, Jordan himself

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I can see he mentioned it influencing her early years, but the Cadsuane we see are rather old, and she is patronising towards everyone equally, not just men.
Though also kinda funny when awakend Rand finally calls her out on it, and point how he were technically older than her.

[The New Bruceski]

I think it's a bit "city of hats" stuff, but also we're seeing it through the eyes of a visitor, and a country bumpkin at that. Of course these strange new cities are going to generalize the behavior down to the stereotypes, it's simply overwhelming otherwise. Cairhen plays Daes Daemar, Caemlyn is obsessed with the succession, whatchamacallit border city is full of proud warriors, et cetera.

[Ninja_Prawn]

whatchamacallit border city is full of proud warriors, et cetera.

Isn't every city in this story filled with proud warriors? A better destination might be 'proud, effective warriors'.

[Douglas]

Isn't every city in this story filled with proud warriors? A better destination might be 'proud, effective warriors'.

Every city has proud warriors, but most aren't filled with them. The Borderlands are in a perpetual war for survival with the residents of the Blight, and thus have a huge portion of their population serving in their military. Other places fight wars only for politics and ambition, and thus tend to be mostly civilian.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Yeah, we probably get a distorted impression because

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most of the main characters spend so much time doing military stuff.

I do like how every culture thinks it has the best warriors though. It feels realistic.

[georgie_leech]

Yeah, we probably get a distorted impression because

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most of the main characters spend so much time doing military stuff.

I do like how every culture thinks it has the best warriors though. It feels realistic.

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Slight distinction, I think most of them think they have the best armies, but not necessarily the best individual warriors. I seem to recall that most of them acknowledge the Aiel as absolutely terrifying in battle. Even if boastful idiots like to claim otherwise.

[Anteros]

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Slight distinction, I think most of them think they have the best armies, but not necessarily the best individual warriors. I seem to recall that most of them acknowledge the Aiel as absolutely terrifying in battle. Even if boastful idiots like to claim otherwise.

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Which is funny, because "realistically" they would get crushed by armies with armor and cavalry.

Jordan had to know that when he wrote the books too. He was a military historian (which is why his battle scenes are so good and realistic, and why the battles got so much worse and sillier when Sanderson took over.)

[Qwertystop]

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Which is funny, because "realistically" they would get crushed by armies with armor and cavalry.

Jordan had to know that when he wrote the books too. He was a military historian (which is why his battle scenes are so good and realistic, and why the battles got so much worse and sillier when Sanderson took over.)

Maybe? I mean, look at the Anglo-Zulu War - sufficient skill and organization can absolutely make up for reduced technological capability, to a certain extent. Also numbers.

[nightwyrm]

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Which is funny, because "realistically" they would get crushed by armies with armor and cavalry.

Jordan had to know that when he wrote the books too. He was a military historian (which is why his battle scenes are so good and realistic, and why the battles got so much worse and sillier when Sanderson took over.)

Oh yeah. Tarmon Gaidon battles involving only thousands of people. Really....

[Anteros]

Maybe? I mean, look at the Anglo-Zulu War - sufficient skill and organization can absolutely make up for reduced technological capability, to a certain extent. Also numbers.

Even there, the British sent 15,000 men against 35,000, inflicted massively more casualties than they sustained, and won the war. The only reason the Zulu did as well as they did was the difficulty of orchestrating a war as far away from home as Britain was at the time. The Zulu could never have sustained success at maintaining an invasion the way the Aiel do in the books.

Let's not forget that the Aiel are largely behind in military tactics as well. Individual skill may be higher, and they may even have better commanders on average, but realistically there's nothing they could do against a shield/pike wall or a cavalry charge. They'd get crushed.

They could probably perform successful guerrilla warfare, and hit and run tactics, but that isn't what happens in the books.

I'm not sure any of this is actually spoilers since we've already had the Aiel war mentioned in the books.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Even there, the British sent 15,000 men against 35,000, inflicted massively more casualties than they sustained, and won the war.

The Battle of Isandlwana comparison was a strawman anyway, because the original comment was about 'cavalry', which in WoT means heavy, French-style riders in full plate. The British soldiers in Africa were riflemen, wearing no armour. A totally different proposition.

And wikipedia says that battle was 748 British troops and 1,089 'native & colonial' against 20,000 Zulu warriors.

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The Aiel, on the other hand, seem to be able to win consistently with 1 Aielman to every 10 wetlanders.

[Psyren]

Maybe? I mean, look at the Anglo-Zulu War - sufficient skill and organization can absolutely make up for reduced technological capability, to a certain extent. Also numbers.

Also, Aiel are practically superhuman. Gaul for instance can outrun a horse, and go weeks without food or water.