V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

[Amon Star]

I have arguement proof myself
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html
In reply to the people who don't believe me, in the v was intended to be a women.
Either that are elven men are so girly that people would believe they have breasts. Also bodies mean nothing, not all women have breasts.

That was the other characters assuming V was a she from the conversation, which they otherwise aren't sure of. It doesn't effect the 'truth' of the matter.

I disagree.

(1) Explosive runes is a spell V uses over and over again, sometimes as a joke on Belkar, sometimes against enemies but with a snarky note sent along with it.

(2) In a very recent strip, V approved of Girard's plan to blow up Soon as a way of ending their feud, and in general s/he approved of using big explosions to solve personal problems.

(3) In the recent battle with the insect slavers, V acknowledged to the raven familiar that s/he needs to curtail the instinct to use flashier spells (like lightning bolt) and instead concentrate on support (like heroism).

V just likes blowing stuff up.

Minnie-May from Gunsmith Cats likes explosions, so females in fiction can be into them. And many female viewers of Mythbusters like the pyrotechnical aspect of the show, so the same clearly applies to real life too.

[goodyarn]

Minnie-May from Gunsmith Cats likes explosions, so females in fiction can be into them. And many female viewers of Mythbusters like the pyrotechnical aspect of the show, so the same clearly applies to real life too.

But (again), do these women like learning about how to make explosions and then set those explosions off themselves (like V does), or do they just enjoy a big boom that someone else makes?

Before you object, yes, I'm sure you can find examples of women who do like blowing things up themselves if you look hard enough. But if you'll refer to my earlier post you'll see what I'm saying is that whether we believe V is male or female, Rich gives V a mix of stereotypically male and stereotypically female traits -- and I think that's his point. V is there to defy easy categorization, and telling us whether V is male or female would ruin that.

[Ashram]

I disagree.

(1) Explosive runes is a spell V uses over and over again, sometimes as a joke on Belkar, sometimes against enemies but with a snarky note sent along with it.

(2) In a very recent strip, V approved of Girard's plan to blow up Soon as a way of ending their feud, and in general s/he approved of using big explosions to solve personal problems.

V just likes blowing stuff up.

True Neutral is funny like that.

[Mystic Muse]

you know, it's a possibility not, (after all in the FAQ he says he'll never tell) but he might eventually just tell us what V actually is.


I'm not saying don't debate, gods know I've debated in quite other threads, including one that's spoofed occasionally, I'm just saying maybe one day we'll have an actual answer.

[Amon Star]

But (again), do these women like learning about how to make explosions and then set those explosions off themselves (like V does), or do they just enjoy a big boom that someone else makes?

Before you object, yes, I'm sure you can find examples of women who do like blowing things up themselves if you look hard enough. But if you'll refer to my earlier post you'll see what I'm saying is that whether we believe V is male or female, Rich gives V a mix of stereotypically male and stereotypically female traits -- and I think that's his point. V is there to defy easy categorization, and telling us whether V is male or female would ruin that.

I agree with you completely, as all of Rich's characters are fully three dimensional personalities. However, to answer your question in the first paragraph; Minnie-May is an demolitions expert that really likes her work, if you know what I mean, and I know one woman that used to blow up derelict cars and similar when younger.

True Neutral is funny like that.

True Neutral with a large dollop of Evil on the side, to be precise.

[lio45]

Not to mention V had not only the male body, but the male face as well (yes, they are different, the position of the eyes and mouth isn't the same in males and females).
If V was intended to be ambiguous from the start, then it would be an explanation.
But using the male template for body and face for a character who wasn't supposed to be ambiguous until people made the mistake? Seems pretty obvious that V, if not intended to be ambiguous, was intended to be male.

Wow, that is an EXTREMELY good point, I can't believe I've never seen it mentioned it before (surely everything on this subject has been discussed to death already, including this particular point, but in that case I somehow missed it).

For a crystal clear demonstration, see this comic.

"Female Roy" has a different face, with exactly the same eyes/mouth placement as Haley and other females; when he goes back to male, he returns to having the same eyes/mouth placement as (male) Roy, Vaarsuvius, and all other males in the comic.

(Not that the fact that V was created and designed as a male needed any extra confirmation...)

[Kish]

Wow, that is an EXTREMELY good point, I can't believe I've never seen it mentioned it before (surely everything on this subject has been discussed to death already, including this particular point, but in that case I somehow missed it).

Someone did bring up Vaarsuvius' eye placement a long time ago. Drew lines through the faces of a number of characters to show where their eyes are. It was inconclusive, since Vaarsuvius' eyes are actually between the position on the head where Roy's, Durkon's, and Belkar's are, and where Haley's, Celia's, and Miko's are. (Deliberately, I'm sure.)

[lio45]

Someone did bring up Vaarsuvius' eye placement a long time ago. Drew lines through the faces of a number of characters to show where there eyes are. It was inconclusive, since Vaarsuvius' eyes are actually between the position on the head where Roy's, Durkon's, and Belkar's are, and where Haley's, Celia's, and Miko's are. (Deliberately, I'm sure.)

1) I'm soooo not surprised it was already brought up a long time ago.

2) Could you link us to that work?

I assume the faces were taken in early comics, such as http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html

I didn't draw lines myself, but the placement seems much closer to the male position (approx. from my own eyes).

[Kish]

2) Could you link us to that work?

Too long ago to find it on a search, I'm afraid (No Cure for the Paladin Blues strips were the ones going up online then). It would probably be replicable by someone with more technical knowledge than I, though.

[lio45]

Too long ago to find it on a search, I'm afraid (No Cure for the Paladin Blues strips were the ones going up online then). It would probably be replicable by someone with more technical knowledge than I, though.

Then I may eventually do it myself, if I ever feel like I don't have anything better to do with my time.

[Samael7]

Has anyone yet coined the term "Schrodinger's Wang?" Because I so want that to be me.

"V's wang is in a state of thereness and not-thereness, until someone checks and collapses the field."

[Maximum Zersk]

Has anyone yet coined the term "Schrodinger's Wang?" Because I so want that to be me.

"V's wang is in a state of thereness and not-thereness, until someone checks and collapses the field."

If so, then Schrodinger's Gender must exist too.

Called it!

[shannoby]

has anyone noticed that the drawing of females have a round bottom while males are drawn with square bottoms, i don't know how to link since i just sign up but Haley and other girls are easily found and you can see for yourself. now you may say that V is wearing robes and we cant tell, but V's partner has a square bottom in normal clothing making him male, if he was female he would have round as they typically have round bottoms if not in heavy armor. this might not say much about V him/herself but would at least help us know the sex of V's life partner

[Kish]

Where did I see arguments like that before?

--I mean other than about Vaarsuvius and his/her mate?

--Oh, right. It was "the blue guy." Obviously male due to square body.

[Gitman00]

has anyone noticed that the drawing of females have a round bottom while males are drawn with square bottoms, i don't know how to link since i just sign up but Haley and other girls are easily found and you can see for yourself. now you may say that V is wearing robes and we cant tell, but V's partner has a square bottom in normal clothing making him male, if he was female he would have round as they typically have round bottoms if not in heavy armor. this might not say much about V him/herself but would at least help us know the sex of V's life partner

Doesn't quite hold up... Miko had a square bottom.

[warrl]

Doesn't quite hold up... Miko had a square bottom.

A distortion caused by the class-feature stick.

[Gandariel]

i suppose this has already been pointed out, but...

a group of 6 people with 1 only single female? naaah

well, obviously in D&D campaigns most of the PCs are male, because most of the players are male.
but in OOTS if you notice Rich puts females in Azure city's army, between the Ghost Martyrs, etc.
meaning that in his world both males and females have (about) the same play.
so, a 6-person party with only 1 female?
naah

[Grugnar]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, I'd like to know what's been said about it.

In http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html, we see a part of V's upper body undressed. The lines on both the front and back are clearly straight, like they are on shirtless males. Females get a curved back, right up to their head, even Miko when she has a square bottom.

[Meg]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, I'd like to know what's been said about it.

In http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html, we see a part of V's upper body undressed. The lines on both the front and back are clearly straight, like they are on shirtless males. Females get a curved back, right up to their head, even Miko when she has a square bottom.

Elan's Mom has a strait back.

[greenstave]

If this has been posted, then I apologize. Placing in spoiler tags because the info comes from one of the books that someone may not yet have read.

Spoiler

Show

In the most recent book, Don't Split the Party, on every commentary page where the author talks about V, he does so using "him/her", or "himself/herself" etc. I didn't go through all instances, but the ones I checked, it always seemed that the masculine was first.

However on one of the pages, and I don't recall which since the book is at home, he uses only "her". I read the sentance a couple times, and it seems that the "her" is referring to V.

Did the author accidentally give it away? Did I read the sentance wrong, and the "her" refers to someone else?

[lio45]

Figured I'd move this here (see bottom of post).

I couldn't quote Lira's post that did contain links to each of those comics, since the other thread is closed, so the links are now gone as I copied/pasted the list.

I also happened to find one that was missing from the list:
OOTS #664 - Durkon: Aye, put 'im down, I'm almost done 'ere...

Interestingly enough, V's been referred to as male by, in chronological order, Roy, Elan, Belkar, Durkon, Roy, Durkon, Durkon.

As female by... no Order member, ever. Just pointing out.


--------------------------------------------------
Instances of Vaarsuvius Being Referred to As a Male:
OOTS #9 - Roy: V-man is casting Identify.
OOTS #87 - Elan: Unless he's half-dromedary...
OOTS #111 - Belkar: Hey, I didn't tell the elf to fail his Will save against ghast paralyzation. He did that on his own, with no consideration of how it would affect me.
OOTS #252 - Sabine: The elf dude is old and highly skilled at magic... and an apprentice would be young and barely competent!
OOTS #306 - Wizard: Should we tell him about the 350 gp worth of ink he used?
Other Wizard: No, let him sleep it off.
OOTS #508 - Durkon: I suppose. Or 'e's just dedicated to winning.
OOTS #631 - Qarr: I'll get right on that, Mr. Elf, sir.
OOTS #638 - Nero: I think he said...
OOTS #650 - Roy: You need to tell him that I said this was a bad idea!
OOTS #654 - MITD: Excuse me? Mr. Elf?
OOTS #698 - Durkon: 'Fore 'e went wonky thar fer a while.

Instances of Vaarsuvius Being Referred to As a Female:
OOTS #135 - Eve: Hmmm. Y'know, Larry, she might have a point.
OOTS #252 - Nale: We need a wizard or sorcerer or something to square off against the elf chick that follows my idiot brother Elan.
OOTS #385 - Sabine: You got it, sister.
OOTS #637 - Qarr: That ridiculous alternate plan you dangled in front of her would have required a lot of observation to come up with.
OOTS #653 - Tsukiko: Wait- who the hell is that, and why is she fighting Xykon when she looks like she should be asking for a team-up?
Redcloack: She's using an effect called a Soul Splice, which means she's probably using all of her focus just holding on to her power.
OOTS #656 - Qarr: Can't you guys, I don't know, Plane Shift her out of there?

Instances of Vaarsuvius's Androgyny Being Acknowledged:
OOTS #107 - Belkar: Pointy-eared, purple-haired, ambiguously-gendered pain in my ass.
OOTS #173 - Ticketmaster Orc: Your horse, sir or madam.
OOTS #177 - Belkar: You know, if I knew more about reptilian reproductive anatomy, I'm sure this would answer a lot of questions.
OOTS #254 - Nale: Hey! A clearly-established gender identity! He is an Evil Opposite!
OOTS #323 - Belkar: Roy's Spot and Listen checks are too low to watch us all of the time, you androgynous twit.
OOTS #348 - Belkar: The elf can get him- or herself out of trouble if need be, but you can't.
OOTS #442 - Roy: There won't be any place left for introverted dwarves. Or androgynous elves. Or idiotic bards or greedy rogues... or sexy sylphs.
OOTS #599 - Durkon: I dinnae know what's gotten inta 'im. Or 'er, I've ne'er been quite sure.
OOTS #637 - Cedrik: She-
Lee: He? It?
Cedrik: - was just the next customer to come along.
OOTS #652 - Xykon: I don't really want to hear your backstory, Mr.-or-Mrs. Spock.
Xykon: You only have a king or queen showing, but you've got a pair of jacks in the hole, am I right?
OOTS #657 - Xykon: Let's play Hide-and-Seek, just to be sure. I'm "it". Actually, so are you, as near as I can tell.
--------------------------------------------------

[Sahaar]

I think V's a boy. Why? Because he's married to a woman and has two children. Unless the Elves have somehow figured out how to use magic to reproduce....

[Strawberries]

I think V's a boy. Why? Because he's married to a woman and has two children. Unless the Elves have somehow figured out how to use magic to reproduce....

I'm sure someone will post this before I finish to type but:
a) V's children are adopted and
b) The sex of V's mate is uncertain as well- nowhere is stated that V's mate is female

Peronally I've always tought of V as male, mainly for the -ius desinence. Classical studies do that to a person

edit: incredibly not ninja'd!

[Poi Sorg]

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Mebbe Vaarsuvius is...

A hermaphrodite!

It would explain some things. Maybe (s)he's not either, but both!

[PallElendro]

I say female. The mate doesn't show much, it's boring with one female, and Haley always bunks with V.

[ArcanistSupreme]

In "No Cure for the Paladin Blues", in the explanation text between comics 174 and 174a, V is referred to exclusively as "he". This is also the compilation prefaced with the statement that the author hadn't slept in 56 hours, indicating that he was in a hurry when finishing up, so he might have slipped up and accidentally revealed V's gender.

That said, it's way funnier to think of him/her as androgynous, so I will continue to do so.

EDIT: Did I kill a thread?

[Poi Sorg]

Did I kill a thread?

Naaaaaaah. A thread this long? No one man could kill this thread.

No one can stop us now! Muahahahahahahahaha*narf*!!!!

Hey, izzn't "smallbiggrin" an oxymoron? 'Cuz if its a SMALL BIG grin...

[DarklingPerhaps]

I think V's mate looks male, which just makes furthers me thinking V's female. But whatever it turns out to 'actually be' I'll probably still think this, because I have since I started reading.

[Raw_fishFood]

I personally think V is a female. I'm going to admit that my reasons for it are shallow, but this started when I first started reading the comic, and because V's magic was pink, I thought of her as a female. And that's just pretty much been enforced through the story without anything for me really stating otherwise.

However, the biggest reason I think of V as female is her reaction to the Black Dragon's attack on her mate and children. It seemed to be a "Mama Bear" sort of reaction, something of a "How dare you even think of hurting them!", and that pretty much cemented it for me. Although I'll admit that after seeing the movie Taken (with Liam Neeson playing an old CIA agent whose daughter is kidnapped), it's not so much a Mama Bear response.

Again, this is just my personally opinion, and how/why the comic has given me the perception of Vaarsuvius as a female.

[veti]

Interesting confirmation bias in this thread.

It seems that whenever you form an opinion on this, from that moment on, you'll gather evidence to support that opinion, whatever it is. And you're not really open to being persuaded otherwise.

I believe, although I don't have chapter and verse, that Rich has said that V's gender will never be authoritatively revealed, so it seems pretty certain that we'll never agree.