Do Erfworlders feel 'pain'

[Warshrike]

I was just reading the 'invisible wall' thread and something struck me. The Erfworlders have hitpoints, but do they feel pain when they are damaged?? When Manpower got hit in the eye with an arrow, he said 'I can taste keylime pie' before croaking, and the only other things we've seen so far are Jillian being tortured, which does imply pain, and Parson arriving in Erfworld.
Now Parson isn't from Erfworld to beging with, and Torture would have to have that sort of ramification to compel Jillian to talk.
But, What about Combat?? Would a unit losing hitpoints in combat feel pain in our sense, or just keep fighting(Using whatever Combat Mechanic Erfworld runs on).
So, say someone gets hit by a sword, do they feel pain and start bleeding, or just lose HP?? What if they lose a limb?? Is that still just HP??

And I guess the question would need to be answered for 'Units' and 'Characters', too.

[Freerefill]

If they can feel every other range of emotion, I'd imagine they can feel pain. But that's an interesting question nonetheless. Pain aside, this is indeed a game and it's only reasonable to assume that they'd have hit points. But if it was that logical, then that would mean they're able to fight effectively no matter how much damage they take, id est, no matter how much pain they feel, right up until they're near death.

I'd say it's similar to Order of the Stick. They can take damage and feel pain, but keep fighting.

As for Lord Manpower, I think it was the shock to the brain and what amounted to a really funny joke. C'mon, key lime pie is more entertaining then watching him writhe in pain.

As for exact instances of pain, there hasn't been much fighting that didn't end up with an immediate death, or if there was, it was between forces that didn't express much. So far, I can recount one of the orlies getting burned (OMGWTFBBQ!) and Jillian getting knocked off her mount, as well as (as was pointed out) Jillian being tortured (damage is damage).

Also as was pointed out, Parson arrived with a massive headache. Ok, he's not part of the universe and doesn't play by their physics. But he did ask if Wanda had a headache spell (to cure one, that is) and she said she'd never stop casting it, indicating that she too feels pain.. but she doesn't take any damage. That kinds throws in a twist to the whole thing. Perhaps the original poster was spot on when Jillian being tortured didn't count.. perhaps it's only "official" battle damage that counts.

[SteveMB]

The blue dwagon roared when bitten by Jillian's gwiffon (although that could simply be a battle cry rather than a cry of pain). Also, Vinny's expression when a scout bat is croaked might indicate that it's painful, or at least disconcerting.

[Lord_Butters_I]

I'm guessing that hero units act like real people, having emotions, thoughts, and personalities, while basic units act like machines, thus enabling a fusion between RTS and RPG elements in the Erfworld game.

[Waldgeist]

I wouldn't deny feelings to the standard trooper (unless he's uncroaked). Even that battle bear as a golem mourned his comrade's death in that Webinar scouting battle.

The important question is whether feelings can influence combat:
Is morale important in combats?
Are wounded units less effective (=are their stats reduced)?

I can imagine that this stack bonus is not only caused by the fact that 3 people fighting together are more effective than three single fighters. But there's also some kind of an improved moral if you're fighting as a large gang, just because you are so many. (Which can of course be reduced by a large number of opponents.)

[TheTurnipKing]

Yes.

Otherwise Gobwin Knob having a dungeon/torture chamber is a ridiculous waste of Shmuckers.

And if someone feels pain when they're tortured, then it logically follows that it'll probably also hurt if you try and relocate their inny bits to outside them with, say, a halbewd.

[Gez]

Do they? Yeah, they do.

[factotum]

I think Manpower started talking about key lime pie because he had an ARROW in his CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM! (Apologies to Gimli ). The part of his brain that interpreted the pain signals from his eyes and face was quite possibly destroyed.

[shakes019]

Well, we know that headaches exist in Erf, and that Wanda experiences them.

[ChowGuy]

Well, we know that headaches exist in Erf, and that Wanda experiences them.

More importantly, when asked if she has a headache spell, Wanda answers with an emphatic Yes, then amends that to say "no, not to cure one." This implies that she has a spell that will cause headaches, presumably for the enemy, which if not to drain HP must be to distract them and reduce their combat efficiency.

[Arang]

More importantly, when asked if she has a headache spell, Wanda answers with an emphatic Yes, then amends that to say "no, not to cure one." This implies that she has a spell that will cause headaches, presumably for the enemy, which if not to drain HP must be to distract them and reduce their combat efficiency.

Was I the only one who thought "do you have a headache spell" was interpreted as "do you have a headache"?

I've just seen that word (spell) used like that, and Wanda could very conceivably have lots of headaches what with Stanley being such a gigantic idiot and all.

[SteveMB]

Was I the only one who thought "do you have a headache spell" was interpreted as "do you have a headache"?

I've just seen that word (spell) used like that, and Wanda could very conceivably have lots of headaches what with Stanley being such a gigantic idiot and all.

"If I had that, I would never stop casting it." It's clear that she understands "that" to mean a (cure) headache spell.

[Tolkien_Freak]

(Wish people would read the first post instead of just the title...)

Probably, though it also probably doesn't affect game mechanics at all. No strategy games I know of make it so that a unit fights less effectively the more hurt they are.

[Caledonian]

Probably, though it also probably doesn't affect game mechanics at all. No strategy games I know of make it so that a unit fights less effectively the more hurt they are.

Civilization IV.

[zorgo]

Civilization IV.

I'm not a huge strategy fan, but lately I've been playing some on my DS and both in Advanve Wars and Age of Empires the units get weaker if they are damaged. So I guess this is not a curiosity...

[chorpler]

Now Parson isn't from Erfworld to beging with, and Torture would have to have that sort of ramification to compel Jillian to talk.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I was wondering, in strip 39, what exactly does Wanda mean by "In some ways, your wounds have healed. In other ways, you're only just feeling them now." Obviously Jillian was healed, as everybody is in Erfworld, when dawn came. But what was wrong with her that she was talking so freely before, and why was she "only now feeling her wounds" in some ways? Did Wanda put her under some kind of spell after torturing her to break down her will (or something like that), and then when she was healed at dawn the spell ended and she realized the huge betrayal she had committed, so "she's only now feeling her wounds" because now she's feeling the guilt of what she blabbed? Or is there some physical pain she's in that I'm not understanding?

[Arkenputtyknife]

When Manpower got hit in the eye with an arrow, he said 'I can taste keylime pie' before croaking,

It's a funny thing that in the real world, pain is often not felt when it happens. For example, many years ago I was in a very bad car crash and was lucky to escape with nothing more than a load of minor cuts, abrasions, and bruises, but I didn't feel any pain at all until they got me to the hospital and started digging the stones and glass out of my skin. It was… weird.

In a fight, or any other tense situation, the sense of pain tends to be suppressed or reduced (adrenaline at work). This is probably a matter of survival; you can't fight well if you're bawling about your grazed knee. You have to keep going. The time to feel the hurt is after the fight, when the adrenaline has drained and you have time to figure out which parts most need mending.

In Manpower's case, the arrow went through his eye and into his brain. The eye doesn't have a lot of pain receptors; it's a ball filled with clear fluid and backed by zillions of optic nerve endings which are designed to report changes in light, not pain. The brain, so I'm told, has no pain receptors at all. A foreign object, such as a bullet or arrow, entering the brain will touch many nerves, triggering all manner of strange and unrelated illusions—such as the taste of key lime pie. If Manpower had felt pain, it would probably have been in his foot, or elbow, or whatever body part was governed by the part of the brain the arrow entered.

My point is that Manpower's failure to register pain is realistic and has no bearing on whether or not Erflings feel pain. And since this is a story, rather than a wargame, I would be very surprised if they didn't.

[Lamech]

It does appear that Erfworlders can feel pain from the torture scene, but that might have been a special special case because Jillian was captured (which affected healing and food popping) and in a torture chamber. Also the headache that Wanda talked about implies that erfworlders feel pain. Of course the headache could mean something other than pain.
If erfworlders can feel pain does it affect their combat capablities, and does damage affect their combat capablities? I'm guessing this will become very important very soon.

A few examples of stratagy game were damage can have effects other than bringing units closer to death. Starcraft some buildings start burning and can be infested at low health. In Advanced Wars units become significantly weaker. Civilization IV is another game in which units lose strength. A few games that use figures that change ablities with damage whose names I'm not quite sure of.

[the_tick_rules]

i'm gonna bet they can he hurt but like in D&D it has no penaltirs right up until dying, but i have been wrong before.

[MookY]

Probably, though it also probably doesn't affect game mechanics at all. No strategy games I know of make it so that a unit fights less effectively the more hurt they are.

Betrayl at Krondor?

But that's moreso RPG

[Revlid]

Probably, though it also probably doesn't affect game mechanics at all. No strategy games I know of make it so that a unit fights less effectively the more hurt they are.

All the Advance Wars series?

[jindra34]

All the Advance Wars series?

But in that game its because units consist of multiple people(generally) who get hurt.

[firepup]

All the Advance Wars series?

In the advance war series as your units health goes from 10-0 they become less effective, mainly because you lose parts of a unit when you take damage. And generally, it only becomes obvious after you lose about two health, destroying one guy in your unit. Yeah, I'd assume the erfworlders feel pain.

[Nightgaunt]

As a response to the OT, and to echo others.

Yes they probably feel pain.

No they probably don't suffer Morale modifiers. Troops without Warlords can not escape combat, they have no "free will" as it were. Or if they have the Will they do not actually have the choice. I guess it would be similar to wanting to fly as a human. Sure I can want to all day long, but it won't suspend the laws of gravity.

Similarly an erfworlder may Desire to flee from the thing that is causing them pain, but because of the "physics" of Erfworld they are not able to. Which, now that I think about it, is actually a particularlly awful fate.

[SteveMB]

Similarly an erfworlder may Desire to flee from the thing that is causing them pain, but because of the "physics" of Erfworld they are not able to. Which, now that I think about it, is actually a particularlly awful fate.

That depends on the situation; attackers can under certain circumstances break off during their turn. And, of course, there's still the ability to evade locally (unless you're tied up in a dungeon or something, of course).