How to stop PCs from exploiting dragon corpses.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Yep. Played with Bob in another game, with alignment, and a stated stricture against evil alignments. Happened several times, with several different Bobs. If there's no stated moral or ethical code for them, they go hog wild. If there is one, they tend to stick within bounds.

Huh. I find that bizarre. But hey, whatever works for you, I guess.

[Max_Killjoy]

My experience is frequently the opposite. Games without alignment often devolve into "do whatever you like", with characters who have moral strictures stuck bashing against characters who do not, yet they can't be free of them because they're played by another "real world" person. Bob wanted to play an insane cyborg, so we're stuck dealing with an insane cyborg, even if we're all city rat hackers.

That's not a problem of not having alignment.

That's a problem of player(s) who aren't willing to work with the GM and the rest of the players on the concept of their character.

[LibraryOgre]

That's not a problem of not having alignment.

That's a problem of player(s) who aren't willing to work with the GM and the rest of the players on the concept of their character.

That is solved by having ground rules in the form of alignment.

[Max_Killjoy]

That is solved by having ground rules in the form of alignment.

I've found that the sort of players in question will find ways to be who they are, regardless of any ground rules, and that the problem is solved by not involving those players in the game to start with.

[ComradeBear]

That is solved by having ground rules in the form of alignment.

Or spending a few minutes during Session 0 establishing expectations.

Things like where Apocalypse World says "During the first session, your characters know one another and are generally on the same side. You don't have to like one another, but you're basically allies. This can change over time."

I've never had a PvP problem in Apocalypse World because of this paragraph that I read at the start of every campaign. And it's not a codified ruleset. Just an expectation.

[LibraryOgre]

Or spending a few minutes during Session 0 establishing expectations.

Things like where Apocalypse World says "During the first session, your characters know one another and are generally on the same side. You don't have to like one another, but you're basically allies. This can change over time."

I've never had a PvP problem in Apocalypse World because of this paragraph that I read at the start of every campaign. And it's not a codified ruleset. Just an expectation.

And yet, I've found, repeatedly, that removing the mechanical expectation of morality leads to some folks inevitably becoming indiscriminate murderhobos... people who won't become indiscriminate murderhobos if they have an annotation on their sheet saying "You're a good guy."

[ComradeBear]

And yet, I've found, repeatedly, that removing the mechanical expectation of morality leads to some folks inevitably becoming indiscriminate murderhobos... people who won't become indiscriminate murderhobos if they have an annotation on their sheet saying "You're a good guy."

Granted, Apocalypse World handles that by making it very hard to be a Murderhobo. There's on way to be really good at murder, but if you piss off the wrong gang you're still gonna be dead. (Players have 6 slots of health, and with a Large gang fighting a single individual with 2 armor, they'll ne taking 3 Harm every time the MC deals harm. And when rolling the Harm move, they now have a much higher chance of getting into "Take additional harm" categories. So the price of the murderhobo lifestyle is very high. Not to mention your fellow players hold a lot of sway over you, as does the GM.

Stars Without Number has no alignment involved whatsoever, and while my one long campaign of it involved some folks being smugglers, they weren't particularly cruel or evil about it. Again because combat is high-risk even for the powerful.

Then again, alignment in my experience does as much to stop people who like being murderhobos from doing their thing as the "don't walk on the grass" signs on my college campus are at keeping people off the grass. Namely, pretty ineffective.

I don't know what kind of unique mental situation your players have where they think "Oh hey, it would be a really good idea to murder the bartend- oh wait, theres an NG in my alignment box. I am now cured of my desire for random violence." But it is certainly unique.

[Mutazoia]

*ahem*

Sooooo....about this dragon corpse.....

[ComradeBear]

*ahem*

Sooooo....about this dragon corpse.....

I gave my 2 cents about it on page 1, and at this point the thread is going in circles of agreeance that the best response is either to require specific skillsets to make use of the thing, make the thing explode, or make dragonscale armor not particularly much better than any other leather made from reptile hide.

And we keep repeating these options over and over with the occassional alternative sprinkled in.

The topic has been about as badly beaten to death as the dragon in question. :P

[Segev]

*ahem*

Sooooo....about this dragon corpse.....

Oh, right, let me get out the black onyx...

[Vinyadan]

There is another option: if they are acting on behalf of a town, they might propose the dragon to surrender peacefully to be tried by the town council. Diplomacy check, anyone? And then a bunch more checks to see how the trial goes.

[etrpgb]

-Hi, I am Bob the Prismatic Great Wyrm. I am here to collect the corpse of this fellow dragon for doing a proper funeral. If you do not like the idea, please remember I have more than 2000hp, 100 of AC, and I am 30 level Sorceror. Any question?

[Inevitability]

-Hi, I am Bob the Prismatic Great Wyrm. I am here to collect the corpse of this fellow dragon for doing a proper funeral. If you do not like the idea, please remember I have more than 2000hp, 100 of AC, and I am 30 level Sorceror. Any question?

I really hope this is satire.

[Templarkommando]

Because of the thread topic, I thought that this was obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya7mwQYeICQ

That said, the way I would spin this is to use the randomosity (totally a word) of your party as a gateway to adventure. Yeah sure, you've got the carcass of a dragon, but now what do you do?

The process of turning dragon parts into useful items can itself be an adventure. What sort of person can turn dragon scales into armor? Well maybe anyone, but what if the way to get the most mileage out of your dragon scales is to commission a particular hill dwarf that lives in the underdark who doesn't really like visitors, but he needs a few favors done.

Maybe other factions are after items made from dragon parts, so possessing dragon parts makes the party a target... maybe the other faction is dragons and they're mad about the party killing dragons and flagrantly wearing their body parts.

If you're really dead-set on stopping the party from exploiting dragon corpses, make harvesting dragon parts hazardous. It's not a huge jump to think that a dragon that breathes fire also spurts boiling hot blood onto anyone that tries to skin him. It's also not a big jump to apply this to dragon's that breathe poison, ice, etc. Failing that, maybe hyarvesting dragon parts without a license is a criminal activity. The Dragon-Tanner's Guild has a royal endorsement, so if you want to harvest dragon parts, you have to pay a fee to get a "professional" to get the pieces. This fee will get you dragon armor, but you don't actually come out ahead by much from doing it.

I'd really say to shy away from telling the party "No, you can't do that." I've made this mistake of doing that too often to not advise caution. Best case scenario, my party would try to find more inventive ways to harvest dragon parts, and worst case scenario I get a huge out of character argument that sucks up as much game time as it would have to just let the party skin the dragon.

[etrpgb]

I really hope this is satire.

Satire of what?

This thread already done its argument, but for the sake of my opinion I would simply say: let them do.

[Inevitability]

Satire of what?

Bad GMing behaviors? Using something as blatantly overpowered as a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon to push the PC's down a certain path is the definition of railroading.

[Vinyadan]

-Hi, I am Bob the Prismatic Great Wyrm. I am here to collect the corpse of this fellow dragon for doing a proper funeral. If you do not like the idea, please remember I have more than 2000hp, 100 of AC, and I am 30 level Sorceror. Any question?

And thus did the menacing "My name is Sue/How do you do?" turn into "My name is Bob/I run the mob!"

[etrpgb]

Bad GMing behaviors?

Well, then sure. That's was the point; after all the thread topic is about that.

[LibraryOgre]

Bad GMing behaviors? Using something as blatantly overpowered as a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon to push the PC's down a certain path is the definition of railroading.

On the other hand, consider that dragons may well have a priest class that do funerals for dead dragons, and Bob the Dragon showing up to request the corpse for proper disposal is pretty reasonable.

[Inevitability]

On the other hand, consider that dragons may well have a priest class that do funerals for dead dragons, and Bob the Dragon showing up to request the corpse for proper disposal is pretty reasonable.

Sure, but Bob the Dragon being literally the strongest monster in the entire game and showing up moments after the dragon's death isn't reasonable, it's railroading.

[Mutazoia]

Sure, but Bob the Dragon being literally the strongest monster in the entire game and showing up moments after the dragon's death isn't reasonable, it's railroading.

Unless you consider the fact that Bob the Dragon is a dragon diety, who can, quite literally, be in multiple places at once, and shows up like this EVERY time a dragon dies. Then it's World Lore.

Besides, Railroading is when you force the players to take specific actions. When you deny them a dragon corpse, just because, it's not railroading, it's just being an a-hole.

[Vinyadan]

This can be legitimate if you give some info about it before Bob The Dragon God Of Funeral Parlours shows up. It's the kind of things legends would pop up about everywhere.

[Segev]

Unless you consider the fact that Bob the Dragon is a dragon diety, who can, quite literally, be in multiple places at once, and shows up like this EVERY time a dragon dies. Then it's World Lore.

Besides, Railroading is when you force the players to take specific actions. When you deny them a dragon corpse, just because, it's not railroading, it's just being an a-hole.

By that logic, Pelor shows up in person to deal with the deceased who worship him moments after they die. As does Gruumsh (who wants to take the corpse for use in infernal rituals). I assume you have nobody looting corpses in your setting?

[Inevitability]

By that logic, Pelor shows up in person to deal with the deceased who worship him moments after they die. As does Gruumsh (who wants to take the corpse for use in infernal rituals). I assume you have nobody looting corpses in your setting?

Abyssal rituals: Gruumsh is CE. Geez, why can't people remember the proper terminology for a dark god's evil rites?

[LibraryOgre]

By that logic, Pelor shows up in person to deal with the deceased who worship him moments after they die. As does Gruumsh (who wants to take the corpse for use in infernal rituals). I assume you have nobody looting corpses in your setting?

I don't know, there are a lot more humans than there are dragons. Bob might have more time on his hands.

[Inevitability]

I don't know, there are a lot more humans than there are dragons. Bob might have more time on his hands.

Getting Time Stop at-will is trivial for any deity worth his proverbial salt.

[LibraryOgre]

Getting Time Stop at-will is trivial for any deity worth his proverbial salt.

Still, man, gotta be boring. With dragons, especially adult dragons, you might have one or two deaths per year... most in violence with humans and demihumans. Humans, you get one or two deaths per round. Bob's just got more time to make it special, you know? It's a big day in their lives.

[ComaVision]

Still, man, gotta be boring. With dragons, especially adult dragons, you might have one or two deaths per year... most in violence with humans and demihumans. Humans, you get one or two deaths per round. Bob's just got more time to make it special, you know? It's a big day in their lives.

I can't be the only one enjoying the thought of Bob, Deity of Dragon Funerals, being a very lonely fellow.

[Mutazoia]

I can't be the only one enjoying the thought of Bob, Deity of Dragon Funerals, being a very lonely fellow.

It's a part-time gig while he writes his screenplay. But what he really want's to do is direct.

[etrpgb]

I assume you have nobody looting corpses in your setting?

"looting corpses" in the literal sense, nobody does.
Bob does not pickup the equipment. Just the body, at least for the topic thread title. This is what is wanted.

Still it can just be a things of dragons, rare and magical as they are. What is the problem?

Sure, it is a somewhat boring job for Bob. "Hi dear, I just come home with some warthogs I pickup in the forest so we can have di.... oh, dear. Another dragon died just now, see you soon!" five minutes later: "...so we can have dinner."

But, heck... welcome to the world of boring jobs. Maybe there are multiple Bobs, that take turns?