Dragon Ball Super

[Rater202]

...What's a Caillou?

Caillou(Pronounced Keye-Yoo) is the name of 1: One of those overly simplified and sometimes condescending little kid shows and 2: The main character of the same.

The main character is a particularly naive and inexplicably bald five-year-old.

All I can assume is that "Space Caillou" refers to bald and inexplicable Childish Zeno-sama.

[Some Android]

He's real. Plus, the GoD in his opposite universe is a Bat, so we've got a Batman/Joker thing going on there.

Man, Buggy's really moved up in the world...multiverse.

[Rater202]

So, can we all at least agree that the scene in the opening of the entire universe 7 team doing a badass walk into the arena was awesome

[Callos_DeTerran]

So, can we all at least agree that the scene in the opening of the entire universe 7 team doing a badass walk into the arena was awesome

For some reason the fact that 18 looks like she's just getting ready for a walk or jog amuses the living hell out of me, its great that her and 17 seem so casual about all this and I love it.

[Anteros]

So, can we all at least agree that the scene in the opening of the entire universe 7 team doing a badass walk into the arena was awesome

Needs more Future Trunks.

[Lord Raziere]

For some reason the fact that 18 looks like she's just getting ready for a walk or jog amuses the living hell out of me, its great that her and 17 seem so casual about all this and I love it.

I do to, The Androids are pretty much my favorite characters and stuff like this just makes like I nailed it with my own characters.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I do to, The Androids are pretty much my favorite characters and stuff like this just makes like I nailed it with my own characters.

Oh, definitely, the Androids as a whole (not really counting the movie ones) are an awesome bunch and I'm sad that 17 and 18 didn't get more time as villains before being absorbed/redeemed cause they were pretty cool villains as well.

This may be an odd opinion, but I actually like the fact in Dragon Ball that if a character doesn't have a reason to fight they tend to fall out of fighting. The fact Krillin became a police officer, Yamcha a baseball player, Gohan a family man, and etc. is just a cool thing to me cause honestly...who WANTS to be engaged in training all of the time if you don't need to? Who wants to get into constant life or death battles? Sure, when a tournament comes around and their all basically just fighting for fun/money everyone shows up cause its basically a friendly gathering for them, but I love the fact the majority of the Z-fighters and company have a life besides just constant training and fighting. Even if it does mean they slack off on training and get weaker.

...the exception being the Androids and Mr. Buu of course, they don't have to do a damn thing and they'll be as strong as they always were.

Honestly, one thing I really want to come up in the Tournament of Power, is the fact that unless someone blatantly overwhelms Android 17 or 18 that those two will just eventually wear them down because they'll never run low on energy. Its a cool fighting tactic that, barring MAYBE Kid Buu, the Androids are the greatest endurance fighters of like..ever.

[Rater202]

17 and 18 and possibly Buu are great additions to the team for tactical reasons--it's a 48 minute match against 70 other people. Being able to endure is an asset and 17 and 18 never get tired or run out of energy.

[Anteros]

I know in real life people can't fight for 45 minutes without getting exhausted, but I don't really think it's as much of an issue for characters that operate on the Dragonball scale.

Really, the whole team thing makes little sense anyway. Goku and Geets are universe busters, so anyone who can realistically challenge them is just going to curb stomp anyone else anyway. The team might get some entertaining fights, but they won't really be relevant to the outcome (barring some sort of joke character like Roshi winning the entire tourney, which could totally happen.)

[Rater202]

I know in real life people can't fight for 45 minutes without getting exhausted, but I don't really think it's as much of an issue for characters that operate on the Dragonball scale.

Really, the whole team thing makes little sense anyway. Goku and Geets are universe busters, so anyone who can realistically challenge them is just going to curb stomp anyone else anyway. The team might get some entertaining fights, but they won't really be relevant to the outcome (barring some sort of joke character like Roshi winning the entire tourney, which could totally happen.)

Roshi has a technique that makes people fall asleep and another technique that immobilizes people and shocks the crap out of them with lightning. Sounds pretty useful for knocking people out so that they can be chucked off the edge. Furthermore, a pot, jar, or rice cooker isn't exactly a weapon.

Likewise, Buu can turn people into inanimate objects and chuck them off the edge of the arena.

Piccolo is a master tactician and Gohan is his protige--and as was flat out stated, tactics and teamwork are going to be more important than raw power her, which is presumably why people weaker than Gohan are on the team in the first place.

And Tien has a history of just randomly showing up and being powerful enough to harm or at least seriously inconvenience the villains of the Storyline.

Also, in Raw power... Gohan shrugged off an SSJB level Baseball throw in base form and impressed Champa with his durability. He also sparred with his father in both Base and SSJ1 form and they were about even in power. The intro implies that Gohan is getting his Potential Unlocked form back, which is apparently as strong if not stronger than SSJ3 with no drawbacks. We don't know how strong Blue is. We just know that it's SSJ1+God Power and that it's a better option than 2 or three--Ultimate Gohan might be stronger than his Dad discounting the Kaioken.

[Lemmy]

It always annoyed me that they never used a wish to restore Android #16.

[Rater202]

It always annoyed me that they never used a wish to restore Android #16.

16 is purely mechanical. He doesn't have a soul. They can't exactly wish him back to life, either, becuase he was never alive in the first place.

Even if they built a new one and uploaded a backup of his memories from somewhere(Balma?), it wouldn't be the same 16.

[Anteros]

Roshi has a technique that makes people fall asleep and another technique that immobilizes people and shocks the crap out of them with lightning. Sounds pretty useful for knocking people out so that they can be chucked off the edge. Furthermore, a pot, jar, or rice cooker isn't exactly a weapon.

Likewise, Buu can turn people into inanimate objects and chuck them off the edge of the arena.

Piccolo is a master tactician and Gohan is his protige--and as was flat out stated, tactics and teamwork are going to be more important than raw power her, which is presumably why people weaker than Gohan are on the team in the first place.

And Tien has a history of just randomly showing up and being powerful enough to harm or at least seriously inconvenience the villains of the Storyline.

Also, in Raw power... Gohan shrugged off an SSJB level Baseball throw in base form and impressed Champa with his durability. He also sparred with his father in both Base and SSJ1 form and they were about even in power. The intro implies that Gohan is getting his Potential Unlocked form back, which is apparently as strong if not stronger than SSJ3 with no drawbacks. We don't know how strong Blue is. We just know that it's SSJ1+God Power and that it's a better option than 2 or three--Ultimate Gohan might be stronger than his Dad discounting the Kaioken.

The question is if these types of techniques even work on someone when there is such a power gap. Look at Buu vs Vegitto for an example. Buu can turn them into candy, but then they just get beaten up by the candy.

I...doubt very much that Gohan was anywhere near Blue in power. He was much weaker than Buutenks, who was much weaker than Super Buu, who was much weaker than Vegito. Vegito at the time was much weaker than even base SSG according to Goku.

If we look at the movie, Goku in SSJ3 only took Beerus to 1% of his power, while SSJG took him to 60%. These numbers got ret-conned, but I feel they're still a good general idea of the type of power jump Toriyama was intending.

[Lemmy]

16 is purely mechanical. He doesn't have a soul. They can't exactly wish him back to life, either, becuase he was never alive in the first place.

Even if they built a new one and uploaded a backup of his memories from somewhere(Balma?), it wouldn't be the same 16.

I don't buy it.

Rebulding a robot from its shattered remains and reconstituting his memory sounds a lot easier than recreating multiple fully grown organic creatures of different races and returning their souls to them.

How come Shen Long can restore an anihilated organic body, but can't restore a mechanical one? He can even fix entire planets, but can't fix a robot?

[Anteros]

I don't buy it.

Rebulding a robot from its shattered remains and reconstituting his memory sounds a lot easier than recreating multiple fully grown organic creatures of different races and returning their souls to them.

How come Shen Long can restore an anihilated organic body, but can't restore a mechanical one? He can even fix entire planets, but can't fix a robot?

With the way that Super keeps pushing out fan service it wouldn't surprise me if we get something indicating they ressurected him off screen at some point.

[Rater202]

I...doubt very much that Gohan was anywhere near Blue in power. He was much weaker than Buutenks, who was much weaker than Super Buu, who was much weaker than Vegito. Vegito at the time was much weaker than even base SSG according to Goku.

Okay, one: Buutenks was stronger than base Super Buu, and Ultimate Gohan was consistently stronger than Super Buu in all of his forms--that's why Buu absorbed him in the first place.

2: You're going by Back Then Power Levels--Everyone's Base Power level has grown,and regardless Transformations are power Multipliers, not set in stone power levels.

SSJ3 could be stronger than Blue but we don't know because Goku hardly ever uses 3 post-God because Blue is more efficient. Gohan's Potential Unlocked transformation ha a power roughly Equal to SSJ3.

Gohan's current power level is demonstrated pretty well here. Shortly after that video cuts off, Champa, a God of Destruction is impressed by how durable Gohan is. Gohan was in his base form and not expecting an attack.

Later on, when Gohan and Goku spar, Gohan equals his father in Both base form and in Super Saiyan.

And the opening shows Gohan in his Ultimate form, that he got from Elder Kai's potential unlock abillity, that's rooughly equal to SSJ3 but with no draw backs--heck, with the lightning compared tothe last time we saw it in Super, it might well be stronger than it was before.

I think he's pretty solidly back on his Dad's level as of now, if not back to being stronger.

@Lemmy: I gave the answer the first time: He doesn't have a Soul. Rebuilding his body and backing up his memeory doen'st bring 16 back, it makes a new robot with 16s bodies and memeories.

Which, incidentally, means that when Buu destroyed the Earth and the Namekian Dragon Balls were used to restore it and the objects on it to the state they were in the morning of the Tournement, that Android 8 was technically also destroyed and replaced with a new Android 8. The same presumably applies to Arale and Obatchaman, but they're gag manga characters so the rules don't nessesarily apply.

[Anteros]

Okay, one: Buutenks was stronger than base Super Buu, and Ultimate Gohan was consistently stronger than Super Buu in all of his forms--that's why Buu absorbed him in the first place.

2: You're going by Back Then Power Levels--Everyone's Base Power level has grown,and regardless Transformations are power Multipliers, not set in stone power levels.

SSJ3 could be stronger than Blue but we don't know because Goku hardly ever uses 3 post-God because Blue is more efficient. Gohan's Potential Unlocked transformation ha a power roughly Equal to SSJ3.

Gohan's current power level is demonstrated pretty well here. Shortly after that video cuts off, Champa, a God of Destruction is impressed by how durable Gohan is. Gohan was in his base form and not expecting an attack.

Later on, when Gohan and Goku spar, Gohan equals his father in Both base form and in Super Saiyan.

And the opening shows Gohan in his Ultimate form, that he got from Elder Kai's potential unlock abillity, that's rooughly equal to SSJ3 but with no draw backs--heck, with the lightning compared tothe last time we saw it in Super, it might well be stronger than it was before.

I think he's pretty solidly back on his Dad's level as of now, if not back to being stronger.

I may have gotten my Buu labels mixed up. You understand what I was trying to say.

2. I'm using "back then" power levels because you're talking about Ultimate Gohan...who only existed back then. Of course I'm using that to compare because it's the only possible comparison point. Gohan's power level has explicitly not grown since then.

We know for a fact SSJ3 isn't stronger than Blue. Goku gets beat down with 1 finger by Beerus in SSJ3. He was actually challenging him in god form, and Blue is even stronger than that. He's even with Trunks in SSJ3, but instantly KOs him with Blue. There's really no basis for your claim and plenty of evidence against it.

You're claiming he got something like a 100X powerup based on a 3 seconds shot in the intro. No offense, but it's a bit ridiculous. It's possible Super will bring him back up to that level, but right now he is explicitly nowhere close.

[Rater202]

I may have gotten my Buu labels mixed up. You understand what I was trying to say.

2. I'm using "back then" power levels because you're talking about Ultimate Gohan...who only existed back then. Of course I'm using that to compare because it's the only possible comparison point. Gohan's power level has explicitly not grown since then.

Goku's power level has explicitly increased by a significant amount since the Buu Saga. This is demonstrably how the SSG transformation works, as afterwards Goku is able to fight Beerus in SSJ form when previously Goku was helpless against Beerus as SSJ3.

As of the Krillin Retraining Arc, Gohan is roughly equal in power to his father in both Base Form and In SSJ1, as I cited in a linked video, and in his base form is durable enough to impress a God of Destruction several episodes before hand. Thus, Gohan's power level is significantly higher than it was in the Buu Saga.

We know for a fact SSJ3 isn't stronger than Blue. Goku gets beat down with 1 finger by Beerus in SSJ3. He was actually challenging him in god form, and Blue is even stronger than that.

Irrelevant: SSJG Dind'd just temporarily Increase Goku's power, but significantly increased the power of his Base form. We don't know, exactly,how powerful Blue is in comparison to any of the other SSJ forms other than it's stronger than Bse SSJ and more practical than Two or Three.

I'd also note that raw power is not the only deciding factor--Super Saiyan Grade 4 is weaker than Grade's 2 and three and equal to SSJ1. Grade 4 is also the best transformation of the bunch becuase it doesn't waste enrgy or slow you down so you can actually use that power, making it functionally more powerful. As has been noted by everyone ever, SSJ3 wastes energy like crazy and is difficult to control. It is entirely pluaisble and with precedence that Blue, explicitly stated to have "perfect ki control" as one of it's advantages, would be weaker than 3 but be functionally stronger due to not wasting energy when in use.

Since we know that Gohan's Potential Unlocked Ultimate Form is about as Strong as SSJ3 but wastes no power, that makes it possible that Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJB Goku, assuming that Gohan and Goku have comperable Base Power levels... Which they do, quite clearly, from the linked video clips.

You're claiming he got something like a 100X powerup based on a 3 seconds shot in the intro. No offense, but it's a bit ridiculous. It's possible Super will bring him back up to that level, but right now he is explicitly nowhere close.

Watch the episodes I cited. Gohan is quite clearly on Goku's level.

And why would the Intro show Gohan using hius Ultimate Form if he hasn't gotten it back and won't get it back?

[F.H. Zebedee]

I think the Lavender fight made it pretty clear- Gohan isn't back up to par with his old self. He started training again, and the Lavender fight went a long way to recovering his fighting spirit (explicitly why Goku insists on not interfering). Hell, considering how low he's dropped, it's even possible he got a zenkai off of the fight with Lavender (maybe? Zenkai seems to be a thing right up til you hit Super Saiyan, and Gohan had lapsed so badly by Resurrection F that he was having a hard time even hitting SSJ). That said, Gohan has found his cause to fight, has started training, and just now, unlocked his savage, competitive spirit. So even though he's nowhere near back up to his old glory, he's probably a lot closer now to where he was around when he fought Dabura- Not insanely powerful, but very capable of springing to new heights, and definitely one of earth's greatest champions.

As for the morality of Zeno, I'd argue we've got a case of blue-and-orange morality going on here. I see him kind of like the Eldrazi from Magic the Gathering; his job is to wipe the slate clean so it can be rebuilt better. The Eldrazi are said to naturally travel towards stagnant dying planes and wipe them out so they can be replaced, and I feel Zeno has a similar calling. (The interesting question is if Zeno has a natural place in the order, or if he arose with no purpose and was put into this role by his attendant or some other outside force)

He doesn't see it as wiping out people; it's more like pruning a garden. This vine grew up the wrong way, so we will cut it back to the root, while nourishing the ones that are flourishing and bearing fruit (thus why he was so blasé about scouring the Zamasu reality from existence; it was routine pest control). People are just like ants, or flowers, or what have you, to him. They're all passing temporary things, good for enjoying while they flicker past, but in his view, no tragedy to remove them if they inconvenience the greater plan.

[Anteros]

This is clearly not gonna go anywhere. I'm just going to say that I disagree with you and leave it at that.

[Rater202]

I think the Lavender fight made it pretty clear- Gohan isn't back up to par with his old self. He started training again, and the Lavender fight went a long way to recovering his fighting spirit (explicitly why Goku insists on not interfering). Hell, considering how low he's dropped, it's even possible he got a zenkai off of the fight with Lavender (maybe? Zenkai seems to be a thing right up til you hit Super Saiyan, and Gohan had lapsed so badly by Resurrection F that he was having a hard time even hitting SSJ). That said, Gohan has found his cause to fight, has started training, and just now, unlocked his savage, competitive spirit. So even though he's nowhere near back up to his old glory, he's probably a lot closer now to where he was around when he fought Dabura- Not insanely powerful, but very capable of springing to new heights, and definitely one of earth's greatest champions.

Again, I linked a video where Gohan fought evenly with Goku--who is significantly more powerful than he was in the Buu Saga--in both base anbd Super saiyan form.

This is hard Proof that, in term of Raw power, Gohan is well beyond where he was in the Buu saga.

The only reason Lavander wasn't a curbstomp in Gohan's favor was because he was blind and poisoned.

[Anteros]

Again, I linked a video where Gohan fought evenly with Goku--who is significantly more powerful than he was in the Buu Saga--in both base anbd Super saiyan form.

This is hard Proof that, in term of Raw power, Gohan is well beyond where he was in the Buu saga.

The only reason Lavander wasn't a curbstomp in Gohan's favor was because he was blind and poisoned.

Ok, so I know we're not going to convince each other, and I'm really not interested in arguing for 3 pages...but I don't understand why you're assuming that Goku isn't goofing off there and holding back for the sake of a good fight like he has done in every other fight in his entire life. Do you think he really wants to go all out and murder his son?

When Vegeta was fighting Cabba in SSJ were they equal? It looked like it until Vegeta stopped playing, tanked Cabba's best shot with his forhead, and laughed it off. You can't assume either Goku or Vegeta is going all out at any time, especially not in a sparring match that they aren't taking seriously.

[Rater202]

Ok, so I know we're not going to convince each other, and I'm really not interested in arguing for 3 pages...but I don't understand why you're assuming that Goku isn't goofing off there and holding back for the sake of a good fight like he has done in every other fight in his entire life. Do you think he really wants to go all out and murder his son?

1:Later in the same episode, Goku spars with Krillin while holding back and with a handicap and dominates the fight--IIRC, he almost accidentally killed Krillin.

I think it's safe to say that, holding back or not, if you're not at least on Goku's level he's gonna whoop your ass.

2: Okay, how about the first video I linked, where Gohan is no worse for wear and literally laughed off it off after an SSJB level ki-infused baseball pitch almost vaporized him? And impressed Champa with his durability.

When Vegeta was fighting Cabba in SSJ were they equal? It looked like it until Vegeta stopped playing, tanked Cabba's best shot with his forhead, and laughed it off. You can't assume either Goku or Vegeta is going all out at any time, especially not in a sparring match that they aren't taking seriously.

That's not a good example. Cabba had literally just gone SSJ for the first time and Vegeta had been kicking his ass prior to that. Vegeta had years of experinace and IIRC had trained and achieved SSJ Grade 4( the one that wastes no energy.) Of course his SSJ form would be functionally better than Cabba's

[Callos_DeTerran]

Ok, so I know we're not going to convince each other, and I'm really not interested in arguing for 3 pages...but I don't understand why you're assuming that Goku isn't goofing off there and holding back for the sake of a good fight like he has done in every other fight in his entire life. Do you think he really wants to go all out and murder his son?

To a degree, I agree with you in that I don't think Gohan is back to full fighting form just yet, but assuming Goku is goofing off in training is a bit weird. It wasn't a fight...a fight Goku wanted because he had felt he had grown dull and needed someone strong to resharpen that edge. In other words, training is to better yourself, you don't half-ass it by playing around especially when your opponent is someone who can challenge you.

Goku and Gohan aren't just equals during that spar, Gohan is the only one that lands a clean, decisive hit.

Once Gohan gets abck up to snuff its obvious that he will be a force to be reckoned with.

Worth pointing out, I really, REALLY doubt that Goku and Vegeta are actually capable of destroying the universe. Otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to summon Zeno'o to deal with Zamazu, they could have just destroyed the future timeline universe that Zamasu was infecting on their own. Hyperbole and whatnot.

...Even if they could, that power would be an active detriment in the Tournament of Power, if they destroy the arena than everyone loses. Hell, if they aren't careful than they'll destroy the ground under their feet and fall into the void...thus being eliminated from the battle and short-handing their team. Its weird but we...don't know how much more powerful everyone is after the Buu saga. I mean, Vegeta and Goku are obviously more powerful but there's no real comparison to enemies or characters they've fought before. Even aside from that, as the Universe 6 Tournament arc showed, power isn't enough. Metamo spews freaking lava and that seems to be his power...despite that, Vegeta couldn't outright defeat him (and by all rights almost lost), he had to push Metamo out of the ring to win. Hell, people can't fly away from him now so he's gonna be serious trouble. Same with the Pooh Bear thing. You can just have a weird power and still be able a good fighter.

...wait, isn't the only reason Vegito was still able to move as candy was because of the Potara earrings? So that's still a huge freaking ace in Buu's hole....holes?

[Lord Raziere]

Oh, definitely, the Androids as a whole (not really counting the movie ones) are an awesome bunch and I'm sad that 17 and 18 didn't get more time as villains before being absorbed/redeemed cause they were pretty cool villains as well.

This may be an odd opinion, but I actually like the fact in Dragon Ball that if a character doesn't have a reason to fight they tend to fall out of fighting. The fact Krillin became a police officer, Yamcha a baseball player, Gohan a family man, and etc. is just a cool thing to me cause honestly...who WANTS to be engaged in training all of the time if you don't need to? Who wants to get into constant life or death battles? Sure, when a tournament comes around and their all basically just fighting for fun/money everyone shows up cause its basically a friendly gathering for them, but I love the fact the majority of the Z-fighters and company have a life besides just constant training and fighting. Even if it does mean they slack off on training and get weaker.

...the exception being the Androids and Mr. Buu of course, they don't have to do a damn thing and they'll be as strong as they always were.

Honestly, one thing I really want to come up in the Tournament of Power, is the fact that unless someone blatantly overwhelms Android 17 or 18 that those two will just eventually wear them down because they'll never run low on energy. Its a cool fighting tactic that, barring MAYBE Kid Buu, the Androids are the greatest endurance fighters of like..ever.

Actually I like the fact that people stop fighting when they have no reason as well, because of how the genre works. Fighting is in some ways an art to them, and for that you need PASSION to do it and be good at it, you need motivation to brave the dangers and you need that motivation to pull off the seemingly impossible. That can happen, but of course what other shonen shows ignore is that not everyone is a fighter or can muster up that passion. As well as the fact that priorities change over time and that where it was once very important to be incredibly strong, it may not no longer be therefore their skills have declined. So the whole "doing impossible things" part is balanced out by the fact that you can't just randomly do it out of nowhere, you need to be an already motivated determined individual who is actively honing themselves to do those things.

other shows don't feel like they have a life like you say- such as Bleach. That world always felt stark and little lifeless to me. One Piece, Naruto and Fairy Tail meanwhile are all in different worlds so their show is about their lives, but their lives are fighting anyways. DBZ/Super has fighting, but its clear that its not everything. There is Bulma, who has always been useful even though she has never lifted a finger, or Korin and Senzu Beans, or Kami/Dende and the Dragon Balls, Hercule and his media shenanigans.....quite simply, there is a lot of life and support stuff around the fighting stuff that makes it all make sense and feel as if not everyone centers their lives around fighting....its just Goku and Vegeta for the most part. Not even Krillin, Tien or Yamcha do it for the same reasons as the Saiyans because they were all mellowed out by Goku and came to use their talents to protect Earth or to get prize money.

Actually if Dragon Ball Online/Xenoverse becomes canon, Mr. Buu will divide himself up into the Majin race so that he is no longer lonely and thus gradually grow weaker over time until the majins are only as strong as everyone else in Age 1000, but of course can re-unlock all their crazy powers through training. Toriyama had as much control over Online as he does Super, so if you consider that canon....well...there is your answer, Buu will eventually want companionship. and that'll lead to a race of naive innocent goo genies wandering around Earth with strange powers living alongside Namekians and humans and saiyan-descended humans. Who knows it might change, but its definitely an idea that has gained a lot of traction.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Actually if Dragon Ball Online/Xenoverse becomes canon, Mr. Buu will divide himself up into the Majin race so that he is no longer lonely and thus gradually grow weaker over time until the majins are only as strong as everyone else in Age 1000, but of course can re-unlock all their crazy powers through training. Toriyama had as much control over Online as he does Super, so if you consider that canon....well...there is your answer, Buu will eventually want companionship. and that'll lead to a race of naive innocent goo genies wandering around Earth with strange powers living alongside Namekians and humans and saiyan-descended humans. Who knows it might change, but its definitely an idea that has gained a lot of traction.

Weird as it is, I hope Online is canon in that sense and not Xenoverse. In Xenoverse he just spawns off....friends? Family? Something anyway but in Online he actually has a wife.

Weird thing is that they all grow weaker over time by dividing, implying that all Majin share the same pool of energy that just gets split up again and again and again. 'cept they can train and get stronger. What makes that terrifying (Even if its kinda dull in the game) is that EVERY Majin has the potential to become the new Kid Buu. Every. Single. One.

...Course I don't buy the 'as weak as all the other races' bit for one second, even in Xenoverse everyone comments that Majins start off as monsters in power and even if not for no other reason than their bizarre abilities.

[Scowling Dragon]

You know I really can't stomach 99% of most shonen (And even 99% of the shonen people consider good). Dragonball especially included. Its action being dull and repetitive and often done for the ease of animation rather then something interesting. 99% of an interesting fight is environment and context, which is why shonen fights usually don't have any.

And I especially hate the trope of cheerleader characters. Bulma is sure important because she grabs a plot device sometimes, and who doesn't love Senzu beans, except nobody really does anything and they don't really exist in the context of the world whatsoever.

When do villains ever go AFTER the Senzu beans? I mean once I think in an alternate reality offscreen. But if they did then that becomes a siege, and the hero has to DEFEND a point and as such can't just spam energy attacks whilst the villain maybe just needs to grab something and leave turning the scenario into a chase but who wants to see that when we can just ramp up the size of energy attacks forever.

Im just not a fan of separation of world and "The Action". Does nobody else find it flat and lifeless? Like how often does the world go under siege from Bad guys and unlike in superhero stories where they are supernaturally competent enough to mitigate most damage alone, (And even then Most governments in Superheroes develop government based superhero stuff EVENTUALLY) Dragonball stories have massive, massive casualties. The world exists as a perpetual stasis for Goku to grind his power level for perpetuity and eternity.

[Lord Raziere]

Weird as it is, I hope Online is canon in that sense and not Xenoverse. In Xenoverse he just spawns off....friends? Family? Something anyway but in Online he actually has a wife.

Weird thing is that they all grow weaker over time by dividing, implying that all Majin share the same pool of energy that just gets split up again and again and again. 'cept they can train and get stronger. What makes that terrifying (Even if its kinda dull in the game) is that EVERY Majin has the potential to become the new Kid Buu. Every. Single. One.

...Course I don't buy the 'as weak as all the other races' bit for one second, even in Xenoverse everyone comments that Majins start off as monsters in power and even if not for no other reason than their bizarre abilities.

Well yeah, they train, get stronger and thus get MORE energy to divide MORE with.

Meaning the Majins despite being peaceful have the most reason to train and fight each other to become stronger so that they can reproduce. I can see a Majin Couple being required to be martial artist companions to keep their power up so that when they make a new Majin, it won't cut into their power as much. Thus Majin relationships would be a weird mix of love and rivalry. They'd be rivals to make their power and energy go up, but lovers at the same time. and now I have a new headcanon for Majin Culture. I even imagine some Majins trying to have relationships with saiyans/saiyan blooded people as a result because of this weird dichotomy.

[Callos_DeTerran]

When do villains ever go AFTER the Senzu beans? I mean once I think in an alternate reality offscreen. But if they did then that becomes a siege, and the hero has to DEFEND a point and as such can't just spam energy attacks whilst the villain maybe just needs to grab something and leave turning the scenario into a chase but who wants to see that when we can just ramp up the size of energy attacks forever.

The only villain that knows about the Senzu beans goes after them, it was actually a big point in the Cell Games that when Cell was trying to provoke Gohan that he stole the Senzu Beans than sic'ed miniature versions of himself on the Z Fighters while they couldn't heal or restore their energy. It was especially important cause Goku hadn't already done that when he sent Gohan in to fight and a single Cell Jr. could have easily killed him.

And if it had, Cell would have won entirely because of that fact.

Every other villain? Doesn't know about Senzu beans and never has a chance to go after them either. Freeza was on another planet and they actually ran out of the beans before they fought them. Vegeta had no reason to because they were only used to get injured fighters off of the battlefield, nor did he know what they did. Buu also didn't know about them and I can't remember Senzu Beans ever coming up his entire arc. I mean that very literally, they might have shown up while the Z Fighters were trying to stop Buu from being unleashed, but afterwards I don't think they ever showed up because Buu...well...killed everyone that he fought (with the exception of Gohan and Supreme Kai). No chance for Senzu Beans when the intended recipient is dead. Super Buu was also too strong to give a hoot about beans and right before they WOULD have become useful, he killed every single being on the planet...which probably included Korin...y'know..the only guy that knows how to grow them. Mind, if this did happen it wasn't done on purpose but that doesn't change that fact. Despite their existence, Senzu beans have rarely been a crucial part of the story...mostly they exist so people wouldn't have to watch/read boring recovery periods between fights.

EDIT: Going off of your post, I'd go so far as to say that you've never actually watched or read Dragon Ball actually.

[lord_khaine]

@Lemmy: I gave the answer the first time: He doesn't have a Soul. Rebuilding his body and backing up his memeory doen'st bring 16 back, it makes a new robot with 16s bodies and memeories.

Yes so.. so by this statement.. if he dont have a soul.. then all that he is.. is his body and memories. That means that if you bring them back, then you will also bring him back.

Actually I like the fact that people stop fighting when they have no reason as well, because of how the genre works. Fighting is in some ways an art to them, and for that you need PASSION to do it and be good at it, you need motivation to brave the dangers and you need that motivation to pull off the seemingly impossible. That can happen, but of course what other shonen shows ignore is that not everyone is a fighter or can muster up that passion. As well as the fact that priorities change over time and that where it was once very important to be incredibly strong, it may not no longer be therefore their skills have declined. So the whole "doing impossible things" part is balanced out by the fact that you can't just randomly do it out of nowhere, you need to be an already motivated determined individual who is actively honing themselves to do those things.

I really like it myself for the almost unique part about skills decaying if you dont train like mad to preserve them at their peak.

Though i actually also really enjoyed the bit about Gohan growing up, becomming a responsible adult and father. Instead of just figthing for the joy of being strong.