Spheres of Power Ask Me Anything #2

[digiman619]

Actually, it does return spell slots. "The ring also refreshes the body and mind; its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep." This implies that everything is refreshed. The following sentence is a ruling, that spell slots are only affected once per day, so by RAW you would regain power points and spell points every two hours. I would expand that rule to cover all kinds of spellcasting.

Well, I look dumb now...

[Zsaber0]

It's one of the best thing about upgrading from 3.5 to pathfinder.

[SimonMoon6]

Q282: How do I use the Alteration sphere to take on the appearance of a marilith? This form needs a head, six arms, and no legs (preferably with a tail that could maybe attack).

Fiendish form gives you legs. Boo!

Anarchic form doesn't require that you have legs, but you end up with a 10 foot speed if you don't have legs.

The closest I can come is something like this: use Serpent form. Then, using the Hybrid Transformation feat (which has the Transformation feat as a prerequisite, so that's two feats used up... and it means you can't use the Transformation feat for anything else-- since it doesn't say that you can take it multiple times-- which is an unfortunate opportunity cost since there are probably other forms that I would like to have an indefinite duration on), I can keep the two arms that the character starts with. And then, can I add the Additional Limbs trait a couple of times on top of that, to have six arms?

Is there a better way to do this?

[TheIronGolem]

Q282: How do I use the Alteration sphere to take on the appearance of a marilith? This form needs a head, six arms, and no legs (preferably with a tail that could maybe attack).

Fiendish form gives you legs. Boo!

Anarchic form doesn't require that you have legs, but you end up with a 10 foot speed if you don't have legs.

The closest I can come is something like this: use Serpent form. Then, using the Hybrid Transformation feat (which has the Transformation feat as a prerequisite, so that's two feats used up... and it means you can't use the Transformation feat for anything else-- since it doesn't say that you can take it multiple times-- which is an unfortunate opportunity cost since there are probably other forms that I would like to have an indefinite duration on), I can keep the two arms that the character starts with. And then, can I add the Additional Limbs trait a couple of times on top of that, to have six arms?

Is there a better way to do this?

A282: I don't understand why you think you need the Transformation feat line, unless you specifically don't want to actually take the Alteration sphere. You can do this with the Serpent Form and Additional Limbs x3. You'll need a caster level of at least 10 (or 5 and the Greater Transformation talent). If your CL isn't high enough, you could probably get away with having one or two pairs of "virtual" arms that are just there for appearance's sake and can't hold objects or weapons.

But for what it's worth, a dip into Beastsoul Monk will let you take Transformation multiple times.

[Hal0Badger]

Q 283: Does "Size Focus" ability of the Resizer archetype for Mageknight cost a spell point to use?

Q 284: In the Squadron Elite drawback it says:
"Your War magic only works for those in your squadron. Creatures outside your squadron can not benefit from your totems, be rallied, use momentum, or be in mandates."

Does this include enemies and harmful effects as well? In other words, someone who takes this drawback foregoes the totems that effects enemies like Gyroscopic Totem ?

[SimonMoon6]

A283: I don't understand why you think you need the Transformation feat line, unless you specifically don't want to actually take the Alteration sphere. You can do this with the Serpent Form and Additional Limbs x3.

Oh, I was somehow thinking that the various forms you take on had to be a form that would make "sense" (in fluff terms) for the name of the form, like becoming a demon form would require being either the "chaotic outsider" form or the "evil outsider form". And, thus, I was thinking that Serpent form would only turn you into a snake, a snake, or maybe a snake... possibly with added bits from other traits. So, I thought that I'd need Hybrid Transformation to be a hybrid of a snake and a person.

Edit: I'm also not fond of the fact that the serpent form gives a bite attack that I don't think a marilith should have, but I guess there's no way to get rid of it.

[A.J.Gibson]

Q 283: Does "Size Focus" ability of the Resizer archetype for Mageknight cost a spell point to use?

Q 284: In the Squadron Elite drawback it says:
"Your War magic only works for those in your squadron. Creatures outside your squadron can not benefit from your totems, be rallied, use momentum, or be in mandates."

Does this include enemies and harmful effects as well? In other words, someone who takes this drawback foregoes the totems that effects enemies like Gyroscopic Totem ?

A284: The second line is the actual rule, the first line is just fluff. Only squadron members can *benefit* from your War magic, so yes, debuffing totems still work the same. I admit, it could be phrased better.

[SimonMoon6]

Also, would using the Serpentine transformation to become a marilith form mean that the resulting marilith would not be able to speak, since most snakes can't speak? I can't find Serpentine on the table that refers to supplying somatic and verbal components, but if animalistic transformations don't allow speech, I'm not sure why serpentine would. So I guess that would require the Vocal Transformation. (And to be the size of a normal marilith (large), I'd probably also need Size Change, so this might require a minimum of 15th caster level.)

[EldritchWeaver]

(And to be the size of a normal marilith (large), I'd probably also need Size Change, so this might require a minimum of 15th caster level.)

If that refers to the fact that you need 4 traits, you can get Greater Transformation and Extreme Transformation at 5th level. Both give you 2 more traits to use.

[stack]

Q282: How do I use the Alteration sphere to take on the appearance of a marilith? This form needs a head, six arms, and no legs (preferably with a tail that could maybe attack).

Fiendish form gives you legs. Boo!

Anarchic form doesn't require that you have legs, but you end up with a 10 foot speed if you don't have legs.

The closest I can come is something like this: use Serpent form. Then, using the Hybrid Transformation feat (which has the Transformation feat as a prerequisite, so that's two feats used up... and it means you can't use the Transformation feat for anything else-- since it doesn't say that you can take it multiple times-- which is an unfortunate opportunity cost since there are probably other forms that I would like to have an indefinite duration on), I can keep the two arms that the character starts with. And then, can I add the Additional Limbs trait a couple of times on top of that, to have six arms?

Is there a better way to do this?

Well,there where only so many pages available, so I couldn't cover every option. The most direct way might be to ask for a custom talent based on fiendish, swapping out legs for a tail and reducing move speed. Others have covered a number of other options. Maybe reduce slam damage or some other change to balance not being trippable. or make a special exception and be trippable and keep the movement.

Q 283: Does "Size Focus" ability of the Resizer archetype for Mageknight cost a spell point to use?

A283: No SP cost for the base ability. Some functions do have a cost though (swift/immediate changes, depending on level).

[zlefin]

Q285
when making magic items with enhancement bonuses (like belt of giant strength +X), are you subject to the caps normally found in pathfinder? i.e. you can't make a belt of strength with higher than +6? (at least as far as I can tell pathfinder seems to have the same limits as 3.5 on how high a bonus you can give to such items)

[Xararion]

Q286

Can you use reach metamagic to make war sphere mandates allow the mandate participants to be in long range of each other rather than medium range. Asking this in case of campaigns with longer than average engagement range and ranged - melee party cooperation.

[SimonMoon6]

If that refers to the fact that you need 4 traits, you can get Greater Transformation and Extreme Transformation at 5th level. Both give you 2 more traits to use.

Well, Extreme Transformation is an advanced trait that requires GM permission. (While this is still completely a theoretical build and I will probably never get to actually play a game using the Spheres of Power rules, I'd like to avoid "GM permission" requirements whenever possible.)

The issue is also that I would need five traits: 3 additional limbs, vocal, and size change. So, at 10th level I could do 1 + 2 (for levels) + 1 (Greater Transformation) = 4 traits... and yes, possibly +1 for Extreme Transformation. Heck, if Extreme Transformation is on the table, I could take it again at 10th level and do 6 traits. But I'd still have a weird bite attack.

And that's at 10th *caster* level, not character level, which would tie me to a "high caster"... not that that's necessarily a problem, but it is a very specific choice (without using the things that boost caster level).

Well,there where only so many pages available, so I couldn't cover every option. The most direct way might be to ask for a custom talent based on fiendish, swapping out legs for a tail and reducing move speed. Others have covered a number of other options. Maybe reduce slam damage or some other change to balance not being trippable. or make a special exception and be trippable and keep the movement.

After working and reworking things, here's the best other way that I can come up with, to do this at as low a level as possible, but in a build that uses a lot of feats just for this:

Take two levels of Beastsoul Monk to get Transformation and Hybrid Transformation. (Race would be Half-Elf with the Doppleganger Spawn racial trait, but that probably doesn't matter.)

Then, take 8 levels of Thaumaturge (Experimentalist). I get two alchemist discoveries, both of which will be Vestigial Arm. (And yes, I've read the thread about what they can and can't do.) As a 10th level character, I may take the Improved Transformation feat twice (saving my 9th level feat until now). So, I can use two traits on my forms when I use the Transformation feat.

This means: when I go into Serpentine form, I can be a hybrid. I have the Serpentine tail (still no attacks from it, but whatever) but keep my humanoid head (which can talk) and four arms (two of which can attack; the other two can hold stuff). I then use one trait for increasing size to Large and one trait for another pair of arms. So that makes me look like a marilith that can talk. The tail still can't attack, but that's not such a big deal. And I've got 6 arms, four of which are good for fighting while the other two can hold stuff (including a shield or whatever).

It's not ideal and it's a subpar build (if I had legs, I could do unarmed strikes with them, which by the details in the vestigial arm thread means that I could use all six arms as long as I don't kick anybody. But having a snake tail means I can't kick anybody, so that's out of the question.

[NomGarret]

Thaumaturge over Shifter seems unnecessarily wonky. Use bestial traits on large and multi attack; and use steal communication to get your language back.

[EldritchWeaver]

Actually, one needs only to take Improved Transformation once. The version which requires an additional feat is outdated. Instead it is required to have an Alteration talent, which you can get any way (spend a magic talent or take Extra Talent feat, for example).


A286:

Actually, I would create another talent for this (which means you don't spend any spell points, too):

Ranged Mandate

If you take this talent, the range of the mandate increases from medium to long. This new range counts for both of creation and usage of the mandate.

[khadgar567]

Q287 can sphere user use shadow clone jutsu via conjuration sphere and can troubadour do it with different personalities?

[Mehangel]

Q287 can sphere user use shadow clone jutsu via conjuration sphere and can troubadour do it with different personalities?

A287 Honestly, I dont know what you are asking exactly (particularly with the bit about the Spheres of Might troubadour class). However, if I were to create a shadow clone, I would utilize the Shadow Lurk shadow talent and the Shadow Double advanced shadow talent from the Dark sphere (both found in the Nyctomancer's Handbook).

Going back to the Troubadour bit, the troubadour's personas like the vigilante's dual identity, aren't actually different individuals. For example: Clark Kent and Superman, Bruce Wayne and Batman, or Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde are the same individual (despite them portraying different persona's or identities). Making your conjured companion one of your persona's or dual identities would result in a number of mechanical issues such as do you have to choose whether you or your summoned companion is the social identity or vigilante identity (in the case of the vigilante), or do you have to choose whether your actor training applies to you or your summoned companion (in the case of the troubadour)?

Needless to say, the Conjuration sphere handbook (which I don't know if it has been released to playtesting yet), I believe includes a Vigilante archetype that has it's vigilante identity be its summoned companion, and has these questions mostly resolved.

If you wish to Refluff or Role-play your summoned companion as one of your persona's I can't stop you, but I personally would advise against it.

[A.J.Gibson]

Q286

Can you use reach metamagic to make war sphere mandates allow the mandate participants to be in long range of each other rather than medium range. Asking this in case of campaigns with longer than average engagement range and ranged - melee party cooperation.

A286: Pretty certain the extend spell meta-magic covers this. Frankly, I gave mandates a medium range because I figured two people working closely on a battlefield would probably be somewhat near each other.

[khadgar567]

A287 Honestly, I dont know what you are asking exactly (particularly with the bit about the Spheres of Might troubadour class). However, if I were to create a shadow clone, I would utilize the Shadow Lurk shadow talent and the Shadow Double advanced shadow talent from the Dark sphere (both found in the Nyctomancer's Handbook).

Going back to the Troubadour bit, the troubadour's personas like the vigilante's dual identity, aren't actually different individuals. For example: Clark Kent and Superman, Bruce Wayne and Batman, or Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde are the same individual (despite them portraying different persona's or identities). Making your conjured companion one of your persona's or dual identities would result in a number of mechanical issues such as do you have to choose whether you or your summoned companion is the social identity or vigilante identity (in the case of the vigilante), or do you have to choose whether your actor training applies to you or your summoned companion (in the case of the troubadour)?

Needless to say, the Conjuration sphere handbook (which I don't know if it has been released to playtesting yet), I believe includes a Vigilante archetype that has it's vigilante identity be its summoned companion, and has these questions mostly resolved.

If you wish to Refluff or Role-play your summoned companion as one of your persona's I can't stop you, but I personally would advise against it.

thaks for answer but here is the thing i dont understand book says you can summon any creature you made contract and funnly pcs are creatures. then troubadour says your personaes are sepereate creatures so my mental math says bob the troubadour can use his mage personae to summon his butcher personae so is it work or i understand something wrong?

[Mehangel]

thaks for answer but here is the thing i dont understand book says you can summon any creature you made contract and funnly pcs are creatures. then troubadour says your personaes are sepereate creatures so my mental math says bob the troubadour can use his mage personae to summon his butcher personae so is it work or i understand something wrong?

I believe your confusion comes from the first paragraph detailing persona's (emphasis mine):

Personas (Ex): A troubadour is an expert actor, who not only can appear to become someone different, but with practice and dedication can begin to think and act like them as well. For all intents and purposes, when the troubadour adapts a persona, he becomes another person entirely. A troubadour can only adopt one persona at a time.

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde are perhaps one of the best examples of persona's I can immediately think of. For all intents and purposes they are different people, despite sharing the same body. Bob the troubadour mage couldn't summon Bob the troubadour butcher because they are the same person. You can however have your butcher persona look like your conjuration companion, to make the illusion of summoning your other persona, but that is just misdirection (your conjuration companion wouldn't actually be your butcher persona, because Bob is both the mage and the butcher, just never at the same time).

[khadgar567]

I believe your confusion comes from the first paragraph detailing persona's (emphasis mine):


Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde are perhaps one of the best examples of persona's I can immediately think of. For all intents and purposes they are different people, despite sharing the same body. Bob the troubadour mage couldn't summon Bob the troubadour butcher because they are the same person. You can however have your butcher persona look like your conjuration companion, to make the illusion of summoning your other persona, but that is just misdirection (your conjuration companion wouldn't actually be your butcher persona, because Bob is both the mage and the butcher, just never at the same time).

so no as main answer. Okay that solves that particular loop hole.

[SimonMoon6]

Actually, one needs only to take Improved Transformation once. The version which requires an additional feat is outdated. Instead it is required to have an Alteration talent, which you can get any way (spend a magic talent or take Extra Talent feat, for example).

Where can I find the wording of the new version?

[Mehangel]

Where can I find the wording of the new version?

Here you go

Improved Transformation
Prerequisites: Transformation, 5th Character level or higher.
Benefit: Choose one trait for every 5 character levels you possess (minimum 1) from the Blank Form ability of the Alteration sphere, from the talent chosen for the Transformation feat, another Alteration sphere talent you possess, or another trait deemed appropriate to the form selected for your Transformation feat by the GM. You may not select a trait that carries an additional SP cost. You gain these traits while under the effects of your Transformation feat. Once selected, these traits cannot be changed. You may take the Perfect Imitation talent or the Retain Ability talent in place of a trait and may apply them to your Transformation form. Additionally, the time required to change shape with the Transformation feat is reduced to a swift action.
Special: Traits gained from this feat count against the maximum number of traits you may receive from the shapeshift ability of the Alteration sphere. You may choose to suppress one or more traits granted by this ability when you assume your Transformation form. Alternatively, you may choose to gain one or more traits without the base form.

[Xararion]

A286: Pretty certain the extend spell meta-magic covers this. Frankly, I gave mandates a medium range because I figured two people working closely on a battlefield would probably be somewhat near each other.

Yeah that's entirely fair, I'd imagine most of the time you would be somewhat near your cooperation partner, since usual area of battle is somewhat limited. We just have a special case of wilderness focused campaign, combined with the two martials being a striker who'll probably be running around a lot in front line, and sniper ranged who will probably stay as far from the melee combat as possible. Sure, most of the time as long as it's within 1st increment of range it'll fall in medium range, but you can't always rely on that. I'll convey that reach would work for the spherecaster so he'll know in case he wants to try out mandates.

[rs2excelsior]

Q288 What happens when someone with the Draining Casting becomes undead? Or otherwise becomes immune to nonlethal damage? The drawback says creatures who are immune to nonlethal cannot take it, but as far as I can tell, there's no way to "buy back" general drawbacks like you can with sphere-specific drawbacks. If you took the extra spell points, I suppose you could just reduce the bonus spell points you've gotten, but what if you've taken boons instead? It feels odd to lose a boon but gain 1/6 spell point per level because you only lost one drawback but the boon you'd give up is worth two. Plus, it seems thematic to me for undead to no longer use, say, blood magic, but it's also kinda unfortunate to lose your spellcasting upon becoming a lich if that was your casting tradition.

[SangoProduction]

Q288 What happens when someone with the Draining Casting becomes undead? Or otherwise becomes immune to nonlethal damage? The drawback says creatures who are immune to nonlethal cannot take it, but as far as I can tell, there's no way to "buy back" general drawbacks like you can with sphere-specific drawbacks. If you took the extra spell points, I suppose you could just reduce the bonus spell points you've gotten, but what if you've taken boons instead? It feels odd to lose a boon but gain 1/6 spell point per level because you only lost one drawback but the boon you'd give up is worth two. Plus, it seems thematic to me for undead to no longer use, say, blood magic, but it's also kinda unfortunate to lose your spellcasting upon becoming a lich if that was your casting tradition.

A288: You just lose that aspect of your tradition, and whatever benefit that drawback gave you. If the DM wanted, it would be a small quest to retrain that aspect out....or you'd lose spell casting all together, now that you can no longer cast in the only way you know how. But in general, you'd just trade out that drawback, maybe for another one.

[Mehangel]

Q288 What happens when someone with the Draining Casting becomes undead? Or otherwise becomes immune to nonlethal damage? The drawback says creatures who are immune to nonlethal cannot take it, but as far as I can tell, there's no way to "buy back" general drawbacks like you can with sphere-specific drawbacks. If you took the extra spell points, I suppose you could just reduce the bonus spell points you've gotten, but what if you've taken boons instead? It feels odd to lose a boon but gain 1/6 spell point per level because you only lost one drawback but the boon you'd give up is worth two. Plus, it seems thematic to me for undead to no longer use, say, blood magic, but it's also kinda unfortunate to lose your spellcasting upon becoming a lich if that was your casting tradition.

I believe the simplest solution is to have the general drawback deal lethal damage (that cannot be healed through any means except rest) instead of nonlethal damage if the caster uses a sphere ability while immune to nonlethal damage.

[meemaas]

I believe the simplest solution is to have the general drawback deal lethal damage (that cannot be healed through any means except rest) instead of nonlethal damage if the caster uses a sphere ability while immune to nonlethal damage.

I believe in one of DSP's Kineticist releases they mentioned reducing Maximum HP in place of nonlethal damage for creatures taht are immune to it.

[Mehangel]

I believe in one of DSP's Kineticist releases they mentioned reducing Maximum HP in place of nonlethal damage for creatures taht are immune to it.

That would also work. Although, it might also be worth noting, that it has been said that player's shouldn't be punished for investing in ways to overcome general drawbacks from their casting tradition (such as getting the Silent Spell metamagic feat if they have Verbal Casting, or getting the Still Spell metamagic feat if they have Somatic Casting). In that light, it might also be a viable option to have casters who are immune to nonlethal damage and who also have the Draining Casting general drawback, merely have all their sphere abilities increase their casting time by 1 step and increase their spell point cost by 1 (to simulate adding a similar Metamagic feat).

[rs2excelsior]

Thanks for the quick responses to my last question! One more I've run across while looking over the rules:

Q289 Are there any guidelines for converting racial spell-like abilities to SoP, or any plans to add them? It'd probably be pretty easy to shift them over myself (granting access to a sphere and one or two talents, with set drawbacks, perhaps?), but it'd be nice to have an "official" conversion, or at least conversion guidelines.

EDIT: Just answered my own question. For anyone else who similarly derps out and can't find it, they're in the Alternate Racial Traits section on the wikidot. Carry on.