Erfworld Thread IX: By the Flower and Gray Skull

[JavaScribe]

The Magic Kingdom is an island in the middle of an undisclosed ocean. It has apparently never been approached by sea.

It might not even be on the same plane as normal Erf. The sky is different, and the hex has been described as bigger than standard hexes.

Based on the fact that moneyless casters go to the shore to die, spending their last turn looking at the sun set over the ocean it seems like bodies not depopping is the sort of thing that should have been verified easily, unless no one ever bothers to go there and say goodbye and notice the mountain of corpses left behind by bodies not going away over the past few thousand turns. If those bodies are still there it'd be an army of hundreds or thousands of decrypted casters, which seems unlikely.

Those disband, and as such leave no body. But I do find it hard to believe bodies are so rare. There's animal life to play with if nothing else, I'm sure they deal with the occasional murder, and the Croakamancers might have the occasional body sent to them.

[Anteros]

To be fair, they are no worse than everyone else on Erf.

They are no worse than people in real life either.

They regularly commit torture, betrayal, and mind rape. While other sides are not perfect, most of them are actually better than Gobwin Knob. There is a reason that a giant coalition was formed to destroy them in the first book.

Also, if the people you hang out with in real life act like Parson, Stanley, or Wanda, you need better friends.

[The Glyphstone]

They regularly commit torture, betrayal, and mind rape. While other sides are not perfect, most of them are actually better than Gobwin Knob. There is a reason that a giant coalition was formed to destroy them in the first book.

Also, if the people you hang out with in real life act like Parson, Stanley, or Wanda, you need better friends.

The giant coalition was more politics than any moral judgement, though. All the Royals ganged up on Stanley because he was an uppity commoner with delusions of being worthy of Ruling, and because Gobwin Knob was too powerful.

[Razade]

They regularly commit torture, betrayal, and mind rape. While other sides are not perfect, most of them are actually better than Gobwin Knob. There is a reason that a giant coalition was formed to destroy them in the first book.

It wasn't formed for any of these reasons. It was formed because they believed that Stanley as a Non-Royal shouldn't have control of a side that was Royal once. They wanted to make Gobwin Knob Royal again.

Btw, you forgot desecration of the dead in that list.

[DigoDragon]

Darn, just when the situation at Faq was getting good...

How does a little action figure take a whole bunker's worth of gear? O.o

[-D-]

They regularly commit torture, betrayal, and mind rape. While other sides are not perfect, most of them are actually better than Gobwin Knob. There is a reason that a giant coalition was formed to destroy them in the first book.

Also, if the people you hang out with in real life act like Parson, Stanley, or Wanda, you need better friends.

That's gross mischaracterization.

First off. All sides do torture, betrayal, and mind rape. See Jill's a Noble side, executing a garrison one by one, so one of GK's commander will turn. Also see Turnamancy/Thinkamancy, that has same mind rape effect on target, except it's done while they are alive.

Parson was doing Ok, he realized how evil he has been and has others that keep him on a straight path. Stanley is to be honest way, way nicer than he was. And, Wanda is... Wanda.

[guttering flame]

Darn, just when the situation at Faq was getting good...

How does a little action figure take a whole bunker's worth of gear? O.o

So how much time passed really?

[-D-]

So how much time passed really?

Not long. Probably not a turn.

I'm surprised Wanda's breakthrough is going to take so long... I mean the fact that Wonky Wrentch is missing.

[Kantaki]

They regularly commit torture, betrayal, and mind rape. While other sides are not perfect, most of them are actually better than Gobwin Knob. There is a reason that a giant coalition was formed to destroy them in the first book.

Also, if the people you hang out with in real life act like Parson, Stanley, or Wanda, you need better friends.

The sides that do exactly the same things you mean?
That tried to wipe out another Side solely because they didn't like the fact that it was non-royal?
Say about GK what you want, but at least they are honest about the stuff they do.

I mean okay, maybe not everyone on Erf- talking only about Sides/organizations there -is as bad (or worse) than GK, but the exemptions are rare.
Maybe old Faq and one or two Sides from the short stories, but other than that?
Most other Sides are just like GK (minus the resurrection/necromancy) and at least Charlie and Olive are/were way worse.

[DigoDragon]

So how much time passed really?

Not long. Probably not a turn.

Charlie probably had a trick in his pocket for getting a tiny unit to carry so much.

I'm surprised Wanda's breakthrough is going to take so long... I mean the fact that Wonky Wrench is missing.

I'm less surprised and more annoyed by that. I was looking forward to those two instigating the jail break, but I guess it'll just be Marie for now?

[lord_khaine]

The giant coalition was more politics than any moral judgement, though. All the Royals ganged up on Stanley because he was an uppity commoner with delusions of being worthy of Ruling, and because Gobwin Knob was too powerful.

Actually im pretty sure the giant coalition were less about either politics or judgment, and more about Stanly being a treat to everybody nearby. We are straight up told on page 5 of the comic that he were on a quest for the other arkentools. And i doubt it had been done peacefully.

And personally i would argue most other sides are better than Stanley. Certainly more honorable.

[Xihirli]

In book one, Vinnie pointed out that Jetstone's lack of grievance against GK was singular among the Royal Crown Coalition. Everyone else there apparently had unfinished business with Tool Stanley.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0034.html

[Kantaki]

And personally i would argue most other sides are better than Stanley. Certainly more honorable.

Ah, yes „honour”. That makes everything better.

I mean what is the difference between Gobwin Knob and the Royal Coalition Sides?

Exactly that. They are Royal. They have „honour”.
They do exactly the same things, just the „proper” way.

If anything Gobwin Knob is better.
At least they give their fallen enemies a second chance.

[lord_khaine]

Ah, yes „honour”. That makes everything better.

I mean what is the difference between Gobwin Knob and the Royal Coalition Sides?

Exactly that. They are Royal. They have „honour”.
They do exactly the same things, just the „proper” way.

Its stunning how correct this would be if a few ittalics were lost.
Or how much of what GK has done seems to be glossed over.

Because yes, it does. And yes, they have it.
Unlike the people who attack during a parley, or lie, cheat and betray every chance they get.

edit.
Also finding it kinda funny.. that everything else in my post gets ignored.. like the bit about why it really were Stanley managed to get an entire coalition of people against him...

[Kantaki]

edit.
Also finding it kinda funny.. that everything else in my post gets ignored.. like the bit about why it really were Stanley managed to get an entire coalition of people against him...

How did Stanley manage to make so many enemies?
Simple. By doing the same thing every single Ruler on Erf does every single Turn*.
Waging war on other Sides.
Very successful in the Tool’s case.
And maybe a bit too enthusiastic if we assume that most members of the Coalition outside of Jetstone had a personal grievance against him.

*Okay, that's an exaggeration. But not much.
Sooner or later most Sides have to fight others to make Shmuckers.
Even old Faq had to do mercenary work to afford its way of life.

On the honour thing: To me it only shows how hypocritical the Royal Sides are.
They act pretty much the same way (attacking during parlay possibly aside, although I doubt they wouldn't have done the same in Parson’s situation), but since they are the Titans’s choosen and pretty the things they do up with courtly speech and stuff they are the good guys.
The problem with GK doing the same is that they aren't led by a royal/noble ruler.
Sure acting honorable is better, but acting the same way as everyone else and calling your way „honorable” isn't. And as far as I can tell that is what the Royals/Nobles on Erf do.

[Cedar]

Don't worry. We'll get like seven text pages about Prince Trammenis shaving.

Seriously, this could have gone much faster. We were already given a dark hallway and Vinnie sizing up Albert. Then they could have "mock" fight. And then Albert gets backstabbed and captured. Instead we get this molasses slow pacing.

I think you were thinking about pitch. Molasses actually move really fast.

[JavaScribe]

They act pretty much the same way (attacking during parlay possibly aside, although I doubt they wouldn't have done the same in Parson’s situation), but since they are the Titans’s choosen and pretty the things they do up with courtly speech and stuff they are the good guys.
The problem with GK doing the same is that they aren't led by a royal/noble ruler.

Yeah, when Queen Bea broke a parlay, she was a hero. And when Jillian did it, Jetstone was more than happy to take advantage of it.

[-D-]

I'm less surprised and more annoyed by that. I was looking forward to those two instigating the jail break, but I guess it'll just be Marie for now?

That too. I keep having this faint hope, that the plot will unwind, explosively.

[Anteros]

You know, I typed up a big long response about this, but ultimately it doesn't matter. My opinion is that GK engages in much worse behavior than other sides (especially Jetstone).

Ultimately it doesn't matter though. If the person who asked the question felt GK was reprehensible before, they will still feel the same way now regardless how much we debate it.

[guttering flame]

That too. I keep having this faint hope, that the plot will unwind, explosively.

art is pretty though.

[lord_khaine]

How did Stanley manage to make so many enemies?
Simple. By doing the same thing every single Ruler on Erf does every single Turn*.
Waging war on other Sides.
Very successful in the Tool’s case.
And maybe a bit too enthusiastic if we assume that most members of the Coalition outside of Jetstone had a personal grievance against him.

He did straight up eliminate another side. I do think thats a bit more than the skirmishes that the other sides are engaging in at times. And we have no evidence of either of the other major sides we have seen (Jeststone or transylvito), are nearly as warmongering as Stanley.
I mean just that so many other people besides Jillian have a beef with him shows he has managed to personally step on a lot of toes.

So yeah, if you got one of the artifacts everyone are fearing, vipes out an entire side and seems to looking for more easy pickings, then you really should not be surprised if everyone else bands up against you in a multiplayer game. Its something you will see in just about every game, and has not anything to do with Stanley not being a noble.

On the honour thing: To me it only shows how hypocritical the Royal Sides are.
They act pretty much the same way (attacking during parlay possibly aside, although I doubt they wouldn't have done the same in Parson’s situation), but since they are the Titans’s choosen and pretty the things they do up with courtly speech and stuff they are the good guys.
The problem with GK doing the same is that they aren't led by a royal/noble ruler.
Sure acting honorable is better, but acting the same way as everyone else and calling your way „honorable” isn't. And as far as I can tell that is what the Royals/Nobles on Erf do.

I really cant find any examples of what your saying though. Of Royal sides getting away with lowhand stuff, but dressing it up with courtly speach and getting away with it.
The only thing that comes to mind is Vini's betrayal, but that was under order, and comming from a person taking tactical advice from Parson.

[guttering flame]

He did straight up eliminate another side. I do think thats a bit more than the skirmishes that the other sides are engaging in at times. And we have no evidence of either of the other major sides we have seen (Jeststone or transylvito), are nearly as warmongering as Stanley.
I mean just that so many other people besides Jillian have a beef with him shows he has managed to personally step on a lot of toes.

So yeah, if you got one of the artifacts everyone are fearing, vipes out an entire side and seems to looking for more easy pickings, then you really should not be surprised if everyone else bands up against you in a multiplayer game. Its something you will see in just about every game, and has not anything to do with Stanley not being a noble.



I really cant find any examples of what your saying though. Of Royal sides getting away with lowhand stuff, but dressing it up with courtly speach and getting away with it.
The only thing that comes to mind is Vini's betrayal, but that was under order, and comming from a person taking tactical advice from Parson.

Faq was a big secret. No one beside Jillian and Stanley knew Stanley conquered it or that it existed in the first place.

conquering Bea side later made Don his enemy. That's about it.

[-D-]

So yeah, if you got one of the artifacts everyone are fearing, vipes out an entire side and seems to looking for more easy pickings, then you really should not be surprised if everyone else bands up against you in a multiplayer game. Its something you will see in just about every game, and has not anything to do with Stanley not being a noble.

True. But you fail to understand Jetstone.
They were not threatened, by GK, not in the same way as others. They made their war because they suspected Stanley of regicide and wanted his artifact for Ansom to attune.

They aren't so high and mighty.

I really cant find any examples of what your saying though. Of Royal sides getting away with lowhand stuff, but dressing it up with courtly speach and getting away with it.

Queen Bea, croaking her daughter under parley.

Jillian tricking Wanda, by casting Kingsword, again tricking them under parley. Then celebrating their "victory" with a parade, as Trammenis entered city to finish Wanda off.

You couldn't find those examples?

[SZbNAhL]

He did straight up eliminate another side. I do think that's a bit more than the skirmishes that the other sides are engaging in at times.

We know that Jetstone wiped out Spacerock, and it's implied that they wiped out Ad Council as well.

[Razade]

We know that Jetstone wiped out Spacerock, and it's implied that they wiped out Ad Council as well.

And TV uses threats of wiping sides out to get shmuckers. Which is why they're being attacked now, because they're weak and the sides they were screwing over rose up.

[Gez]

I think you were thinking about pitch. Molasses actually move really fast.

The molasses themselves maybe, when in large enough volume, but try walking through them.

[halfeye]

There are sides being eliminated all over Erf. Hafaton had something like 70+ cities if I recall correctly, did in Wanda's home side on camera, and I think did in Frenemy and the other one soon after too.

Dig doug's side was conquered by an ally in a parley. That naval side was in trouble until they found out what was going on, they could have been eliminated.

[Razade]

There are sides being eliminated all over Erf. Hafaton had something like 70+ cities if I recall correctly, did in Wanda's home side on camera, and I think did in Frenemy and the other one soon after too.

Dig doug's side was conquered by an ally in a parley. That naval side was in trouble until they found out what was going on, they could have been eliminated.

It's the whole point of Erfworld to take out sides. That's why Parson is here, to end that.

[keybounce]

Idea!

What if the key thing that makes war sustainable isn't so much the razing bonus for cities, but an as-yet-unspecified bonus for wiping out a side? I.e. -- the razing bonus for the last capital site of a side is significantly higher than normal.

[Razade]

Idea!

What if the key thing that makes war sustainable isn't so much the razing bonus for cities, but an as-yet-unspecified bonus for wiping out a side? I.e. -- the razing bonus for the last capital site of a side is significantly higher than normal.

We'd have been told about it don't you think? Considering Gobwin Knob has taken out a few sides. If it's that important.