So, Total War: Warhammer

[Jeivar]

Should I get it? I have long wanted to see a strategy game set in a high fantasy world, but the Steam rating stands at "mixed".

I would love to hear from some folks who have played this. Is there anything particularly obnoxious about it? Any major problems? And does it capture a fun feel?

(I enjoyed the first Rome, played a bit of Medieval 2, and am currently ravaging Britain as the Danes in Age of Charlemagne)

[Blackhawk748]

Im pretty sure its mixed because of CA's DLC policies. The game itself is pretty great.

[Murmaider]

If you like Attila, you'll probably like this one as well. It's not exactly the same game, but it feels(?) the same. Units move kinda sluggish and battles are over in a few minutes.

Then there are a whole lot of new features, which, saddly, are not fleshed out enough.

-Every faction has its own currency. The Empire uses gold, Chaos uses favor, Vampire Counts use dark energy et cetera. But it's all just used in the same way, so there is not really a point to it.

-Character customization is more in depth, but still a bit boring.

-Unique faction mechanics. They're okay. Nothing too bad here, just more of them please, so the playstyle is not dominated by a single trait.

-"Historical" battles during the campaign. Very cool idea, very poor implementation. If your main character reaches a certain level, you get a quest, to fight a massive army in some far away corner of the map. Or you can just teleport there for a small amount of gold. Yeah. Teleport.
There is no real explanation, why you fight those battles except; "It's in the lore", which has little to do with the campaign that you're playing. As a reward you get an item for your character or a mount, which, let's be honest, is probably not worth the army you had to raise to get it.

-Can't occupy holdings of all factions. It's a feature!

I'm probably making the game out to be worse than it actually is. It's not a bad game. It's not that great either. If you just want to play Total War in the Warhammer universe, this game is for you. Personally, I wanted a bit more.

Also: No army customization. In a Warhammer game? Comeon!

edit: Paradox is pulling this **** with overpriced DLC for years now, but I own every single Main DLC, for both CKII and EUIV. The only DLC I own for Total Warhammer, is the Chaos Warriors DLC(Because I'm a sucker).

[Spacewolf]

Yea I'll go with the consensus in that it's fairly average. Main thing that annoys me is that even compared to the last TW games I played (RTW and MTW2) it's dumbed down to an annoying degree. It also feels smaller than the other games I've played, not sure if the map is actually smaller or if it's just because it penalises having more than a few armies.

[Jeivar]

Well... I guess I'll wait until the game drops in price, and the DLC's will be included in a bundle deal. I have enough games as it is. Maybe they'll tweak some of the features you folks are complaining about.

Thanks.

[Blackhawk748]

Well... I guess I'll wait until the game drops in price, and the DLC's will be included in a bundle deal. I have enough games as it is. Maybe they'll tweak some of the features you folks are complaining about.

Thanks.

Ya, id wait for a Platinum Bundle, or whatever they call it. Even if its 50 bucks its still a lot of savings.

[xroads]

Should I get it? I have long wanted to see a strategy game set in a high fantasy world, but the Steam rating stands at "mixed".

In my opinion, I like it. But I'm probably a bit biased since I love the Warhammer settings.

My main complaint is that it seems like so many turns go by where nothings happens. But then again, that's because I play Empire and I do a lot of diplomacy.

Units move kinda sluggish and battles are over in a few minutes.

I guess that depends on where the units are in relation to each other. I've seen battles where it takes about 10 minutes for units to march across the map.

Or you can just teleport there for a small amount of gold. Yeah. Teleport.

What!?!? I must be missing this option. Where do you see this? I usually ignore those quests because they're too far to worry about.

[Dienekes]

Im pretty sure its mixed because of CA's DLC policies. The game itself is pretty great.

Let's just say there's a reason I have only ever bought a CA game and DLC when it was on a Steam sale for dirt cheap.

I love their games, but their policy is ****ty and I refuse to play more than I think they're worth.

[Blackhawk748]

Let's just say there's a reason I have only ever bought a CA game and DLC when it was on a Steam sale for dirt cheap.

I love their games, but their policy is ****ty and I refuse to play more than I think they're worth.

Completely agree, its why i dont have the Beastmen DLC, despite them being the only other army i physically own for Warhammer. I wouldnt have the Chaos DLC either, but i pre ordered cuz i knew i was gonna but the game anyway.

Like i said, love the game, but their DLC policy is freaking terrible, cant we just go back to how it was in Medieval 2?

[ShadowFighter15]

What!?!? I must be missing this option. Where do you see this? I usually ignore those quests because they're too far to worry about.

Left-click on the quest battle so you get the window talking about it and there should be a button in the bottom-right (or bottom-left, I can't remember) where you can teleport the army there for 5,000 gold.

[yuvraj1068]

Vampires are corrupt creatures by nature, their undead bodies sustained by Dark Magic and the blood of their victims. It is the nature of Dark Magic to be drawn to itself, and as more and more of these foul energies accumulate, the land itself becomes blighted and accursed. Trees wither and a miasma of balefire smoke rolls across the landscape. Skies darken and the spirits of the dead stir, shrieking and clawing at any living trespassers that dare venture into these wretched lands

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've just picked this up and am excited to get going on it, but I have a few questions about how it's different from other TW games.

Quest Battles appear to be like the Historical Battles of the previous games, and they're required to unlock things for the Legendary Lord that you're playing as. Is there any major difference between playing them from the Main Menu and playing them in the Campaign? Can you unlock their rewards for the Campaign by playing them from the Main Menu?

[Neon Knight]

I've just picked this up and am excited to get going on it, but I have a few questions about how it's different from other TW games.

Quest Battles appear to be like the Historical Battles of the previous games, and they're required to unlock things for the Legendary Lord that you're playing as. Is there any major difference between playing them from the Main Menu and playing them in the Campaign? Can you unlock their rewards for the Campaign by playing them from the Main Menu?

You cannot unlock the campaign rewards via playing them from the Main Menu. If you want the items associated with the quest, you need to level the LL to the appropriate level, then complete the Quest Battle on the campaign map. The Main Menu option simply allows you to play the Quest Battles at any time you please, without having to go through a whole campaign to reach them, in case you found a particular battle enjoyable, I suppose.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I see, thank you for the clarification!

Any suggestions for a relative noob coming from Rome II? I've never really made much headway with Attila, so some of the mechanics they introduced there that look like they came over to Warhammer like horde-based factions and stuff are comparatively new, and I'm concerned I'm going into this not really knowing what I'm doing...

[HerbieRAI]

The coruption mechanics are kind of important, but pretty simple to figure out. Just don't ignore them.

You also take a lot of penalties for 8 turns after you confederate with an NPC faction. I didn't see a warning anywhere before I did it and it hurt me pretty bad one of my first games.

[Sian]

edit: Paradox is pulling this **** with overpriced DLC for years now, but I own every single Main DLC, for both CKII and EUIV. The only DLC I own for Total Warhammer, is the Chaos Warriors DLC(Because I'm a sucker).

Okay this you have to explain ... WTH does Paradox have to do with Total War: Warhammer? or did you just want to whale on them for no reason what so ever?

[Murmaider]

Okay this you have to explain ... WTH does Paradox have to do with Total War: Warhammer? or did you just want to whale on them for no reason what so ever?

This was an edit I made in response to Blackhawk748's claim, that the mixed reviews for Total War: Warhammer came from CAs DLC policy. Paradox has a very similar DLC policy. Paradox DLC I buy, because it's a great game. TW DLC I won't buy, because it's not.

I guess it was my attempt at showing, that I don't dislike a game, just because of publisher greed.

But you're right, my response wasn't really as relevant to the original comment, as I thought at the time.

[LCP]

Any suggestions for a relative noob coming from Rome II? I've never really made much headway with Attila, so some of the mechanics they introduced there that look like they came over to Warhammer like horde-based factions and stuff are comparatively new, and I'm concerned I'm going into this not really knowing what I'm doing...

There's a youtuber called PartyElite who does some great introductory vids. Some of it will definitely be redundant if you'd played Rome 2 but I'd think his vids would still be very useful.

(I'm not biased because he put a battle report vid with one of my games in it up today, I swear)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Now that I've had some time to familiarize myself with the game, I have a question about army composition. Up until now, my armies have been set up in a fairly standardized fashion, usually something along the lines of:

1 General
2 Melee Cavalry (for pursuing routers)
2 "Shock Units" (this category includes elephants and shock cavalry)
2 Siege Weapons
2 Spear Units (anti-cavalry)
3 Skirmisher/Archer Units
and 8 solid Heavy Infantry for the main battle-line.

But now Total War: Warhammer had thrown several wrenches into that setup. The first is magic. Previous games haven't had this, and while I HAVE played similar games that did (King Arthur: The Role-Playing Wargame probably being the best example) it handled magic differently than TW:WH does, as it requires you to field a specific agent in your army in place of a unit of troops. How do I adjust my template for something like this? The most obvious solution would be to have fewer infantry in the battle-line, but I find that dangerous. The other would be to have the mage replace a "Shock Unit" as their primary role is...kind of similar?

The second is that the factions are balanced in so many ways that the only ones who benefit from my above model are the Empire and the Greenskins. The Dwarfs don't have cavalry. The Vampire Counts don't have archers. The Wood Elves don't have sturdy infantry for the main battle-line. I'm not sure how to adapt the above model to ensure success on the battlefield with these factions.

[LCP]

Before I try to answer - are you talking campaign or multiplayer?

[Pilum]

I tend to treat my Heroes as either Shock or Mobile Artillery. And often tougher than you fear, but not quite as much as you sometimes pray for!

As for how you do it... yes, dwarves aren't fast. They're really all about the battle line and grinding it out. A master gunner with a battery of cannon or two however gives a real 'reach out and touch' capability that can quickly ensure faster enemy units aren't too threatening :) just guard your flanks. Obsessively if need be.

The undead... I struggle with too. On the face of it they're all about hammering the enemy with the shambling horde, causing a ton of morale issues and having enough 'raise dead' support to simply grind their way through eventually. That said, I kept hitting a sticking point where that just didn't quite seem to do enough but I either couldn't figure out the tools to move up or couldn't afford the 'time-out' to rejig my towns (single player). You've inspired me to revisit the game and try again though.

Didn't have Wood Elves so can't comment.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Before I try to answer - are you talking campaign or multiplayer?

Campaign. Multiplayer frightens me.

[Grim Portent]

While each faction has a specialty each Lord then has a further specialization that can make some units much stronger than they would be in another army, and this can change depending on the Lord's level and gear. In general though I've found a balanced army is less effective than a focused one that hammers one strength into the opponent like a wooden wedge into a kneecap.

I'll use the Vampire Counts as my example because I know them best of all the factions.

Mannfred (and normal Vampire Lords) are initially infantry commanders, they're pretty meh at this, relying on magic for the bulk of their use and not synergising well with faster units like Black Knights and Dire Wolves. Once you get a mount you can suddenly swap your entire army out into elite cavalry and the Lord/Mannfred can keep pace and provide buffs and magic without having to worry about your straggling infantry's morale crumbling under mortar fire, because you have no infantry. This then progresses to full armies of Vargheists/Terrorgheists once you have a flying mount for your lord. Or you stick with a horse and go full Blood Knight shock cavalry with Varghulfs to knock down gates and send enemies flying. Go heavy on one tactic, preferably a mounted one as soon as possible, zombies aren't going to do much heavy lifting and will probably break without the superior buffage from a Necromancer. Shock tactics work best for VLs. Hit the enemy hard with fast units, snipe the general, withdraw, repeat. Abandon infantry once you can, they do you few favours.

Strigoi Vampires skip the mounted step of the above and go from infantry to flier immediately. Infantry they specialize in Ghouls and Horrors, flying they specialize in the same units as Vampire Lords.

Necromancer Lords/Kemmler/Ghorst specialize in infantry. This never changes no matter what you do. Necromancers are bad fighters and mostly work best as a mobile buff station for massive armies of infantry. Higher level Necromancers and Kemmler work best with Grave Guard, Ghorst works best with big blobs of non-Ghoul (Ghorst gives his army Poison for free, Ghouls pay for it with a higher upkeep) infantry that can drag the enemy down with numbers and poison. Zombies, Skeletons, maybe a Grave Guard unit to keep scary stuff away from Ghorst and some bats or similar to chase down artillery and poison the crew. Focus for Necromancers is on grinding warfare, elite infantry and a hell of a lot of magical buffs. That said VLs are basically better than the non Legendary Necros in all the ways that matter, so you can forget these guys exist.

Vlad gets a section of his own because he's bat**** () crazy. Vlad is possibly the best infantry commander in the entire game, if not the best commander flat out. Everything in his army gets Vanguard. You can deploy his entire army about 20 seconds walk from the enemy front line. On top of this he's a really strong melee fighter with some really nice relics that make him near impossible to kill. A huge heap of Grave Guard, Horrors and Varghulfs all starting mere feet from the enemy, with a unit or two of Blood Knights deploying behind the enemy to charge their artillery is pretty insane against the AI, players may be able to compensate, but I'm really not sure how you would. Vlad works best with Infantry because he can't take a mount, but honestly he can work with anything, everything is good when it starts a short stroll from the enemy or directly behind them.

All Vampire armies should have a Vampire Hero with the Lore of Death in them, unless the Lord can cast Death Magic. Undead are not very good statwise for the most part, outside Tier 3 units you will usually lose a stand up fight, so you need to win on morale and a big part of that is sniping the enemy general out with magic.



An example army I've been running with Vlad for a while now and which has been sufficient to keep the WoC trapped in Norsca for a while is:

Vlad
Hero Vampire - lord sniper
Hero Necromancer - helps generate more spell charges
10 zombies or skeletons in any combination - vanguard deploying brick, generally merged and raised on the move to make up casualties when I can't stay still and recover
1 Blood Knights - Artillery hunters/shock cavalry
2 Vargheists - Artillery hunters/rapid reinforcements
Skeleton RoR - another unit for the main line
Grave Guard RoR - Heavy Infantry for the line, the only one most of the time

Last few slots vary between being filled with freshly raised zombies/skellies or with more specialists picked up when Vlad hasn't been rushing everywhere to get stuff done.

My original Vampire game wound up being Mannfred and a bunch of flying monsters rushing the enemy general and artillery and then just grinding down the enemy army once it's morale was knackered.

This sort of army specialization can be applied to most of the armies in the game. Only real exception I'd say is Dwarves, who have very inflexible leaders and a limited amount of variety in their roster. No monsters, no cavalry, no magic. Mostly just variations on archers, artillery and infantry.

Spoiler: WoC tangent

Show

To hammer in my point about specializing your army to do one thing really well though, when I played Warriors of Chaos I couldn't get any extra generals trained up, they'd be created, sit down to try and build up a bit then get chased down and murdered. The only army I had for the entire game was Kholek Suneater. Everything else died in about 6 turns when someone came and ran them down faster than I could flee.

With Kholek I had rushed my buildings to unlock Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths, which turned out to be a smart move on my part. Kholek gets cheaper Dragon Ogres than other Lords do, which rewarded me for running them en masse, which I did, and Kholek himself is a Shaggoth and fights the same way they do. His army consisted of him, 1 Death Sorcerer on a horse, 8 Shaggoths and 10 units of Dragon Ogres.

The strategy was simple and at times beat 3 armies at once, with minimal hiding behind trees. Kholek and the Shaggoths would charge different points in the enemy line, just headlong smack into it and start brawling. The Dragon Ogres would then proceed to charge the spot that the enemy clumped up around the most and also start brawling. The Sorcerer would fuss around the edges sniping out the enemy general. Once the general was dead it generally became a matter of watching Kholek's health, flicking out the odd spell to snipe out more heroes/lords or debuff the enemy, and occasionally withdrawing some Shaggoths to re-charge the enemy.

[LCP]

Campaign. Multiplayer frightens me.

I really enjoy the MP, but I won't try to evangelise. If you're ever after some friendly MP games feel free to hit me up.

Short answer to your question: IMO each army is unique enough to merit a different "standard" composition. Your previous template works for Empire and Greenskins because they have the most "traditional" rosters (i.e. a little of everything), but really I think you want faction-specific templates that play to your faction's strengths. The best way to figure it out is just to muck around in Custom Battle (or in campaign... even with experimental builds it's hard to lose against the AI) until you find something you like.

Long answer:

> You can consider heroes an extension of the "general" category in your initial template - their distributed encouragement aura is very useful, and some heroes can tank out whole infantry regiments by themself.
> On similar lines, a "goon squad" of some kind is a good thing to carve out a section of your template for - a group of elites (incl. heroes or monsters) who can do high damage to single-model units, and either aggressively focus them down or deter them from attacking their preferred targets (frequently your general). Poison, Armour Piercing and Anti-Large are all good things to qualify a unit for this slot, as well as high speed to respond quickly to threats.
> Flyers also merit a separate slot, with a variable allocation depending on what you expect from your opponent. If you're up against an army you think will outclass you in the air then it's probably best to bring no fliers; if you think you'll have the natural air advantage then it can be beneficial to go all in on your airforce. So e.g. fighting against greenskins as dwarfs there's no reason not to bring lots of gyros if you feel gyrocopterally inclined, but against vamps you should probably leave the gyros in the hangar.
> I would think of magic as optional. You always get your Winds of Magic, so bringing at least one wizard is an efficient use of resources - and it's nice levelling up agents for the campaign map - but there are very few armies where you *need* a wizard for the army to function properly. VC are the only ones where I would say magic is a must, and all their lords are spellcasters to begin with. In most cases I would say don't bring more than one wizard - your Winds of Magic don't scale so there are diminishing returns for having multiple casters. The only time where it's worth it is if you get access to multiple lores and are making good use of all the lores you bring. (There's also the possibility of Raise Dead spam with multiple vampire casters but that's a niche case)
> Monsters or heroes with Siege Attacker can make artillery unnecessary (even in armies that have access to arty) - and are probably more effective in sieges than any indirect fire artillery (e.g. Hellcannons, rock lobbas, etc.).

Even within a faction I think there are a few different "standard templates" to try out, just due to the variety of units. A solid infantry line is still always a good idea, but other than that I would say experiment. Tune your template to the factions you're at war with and go from there.

There's a streamer called Ninjahund who makes build guides for each patch. They're aimed at MP and aren't 20-stack armies (usually) but I think would still be very useful for SP in terms of getting to know the synergies and capabilities within each faction. Here's the current guide.

I can also show you some of my Large Funds builds if you like. Again though they usually won't hit 20 slots. Alternatively if you give me a faction and a main opponent I'd enjoy theorycrafting a stack for campaign use.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm starting off simple with the Greenskins. My current idea of a roster is:

Grimgor Ironhide (not just a solid general but a melee MONSTER!)
2 Orc Boar Boyz (NOT Big 'Uns, as they're comparatively slow)
2 "Monster Units" (one of them the big Spiders for sure, I'm told every Greenskins army needs AT LEAST one of them)
2 Siege Weapons (not sure if I should have 2 of the same kind or one of each)
2 Black Orcs (while the Greenskins' spears are weak, these guys fill a similar role, able to stand their ground against cavalry)
3 Forest Goblin Spider Archers (my understanding is that these are the best archers the Greenskins can field)
8 Orc Boy Big 'Uns (the main battle line, better than the basic Orc Boyz but cheaper than the Black Orcs)

How would I insert mages or other agents into this lineup? Or maybe get some more variety?

[Grim Portent]

Not sure how much variety really matters for Greenskins, though I suppose it's not as much of a handicap for them as it is for some of the other factions. I can't see anything wrong with the line up you have there though.

I find the Ork siege weapon that fires Goblins with gliders and bombs to be reasonably frustrating to fight as artillery goes. Reasonably accurate and has a good punch.

The Arachnarok is really good against enemies without good anti-monster units, Dwarves and Empire being good enemies for it to fight. Both lack Death magic sniping and both have an AI that likes to make armies that aren't great at fighting monsters that have support.

My only real criticism is the Big Un's being used over Black Orcs. Saving money is useful at times, but sometimes you get caught in a brawl with multiple enemies (3 v Me is annoyingly common in my runs through the campaign) and having your important armies composed of as many elite units as possible can be the thing that saves you. I also don't recall Greenskins having much problem keeping their income high, I think they're supposed to have one of the stronger ones in the game in fact.

Also, doesn't Grimgor make Black Orcs have lower upkeep when in his army? It might be enough to make Black Orcs just as affordable as Big Un's anyway.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That's a good point. I forgot Grimgor makes Black Orcs cheaper!

[LCP]

I'm starting off simple with the Greenskins. My current idea of a roster is:

Grimgor Ironhide (not just a solid general but a melee MONSTER!)
2 Orc Boar Boyz (NOT Big 'Uns, as they're comparatively slow)
2 "Monster Units" (one of them the big Spiders for sure, I'm told every Greenskins army needs AT LEAST one of them)
2 Siege Weapons (not sure if I should have 2 of the same kind or one of each)
2 Black Orcs (while the Greenskins' spears are weak, these guys fill a similar role, able to stand their ground against cavalry)
3 Forest Goblin Spider Archers (my understanding is that these are the best archers the Greenskins can field)
8 Orc Boy Big 'Uns (the main battle line, better than the basic Orc Boyz but cheaper than the Black Orcs)

How would I insert mages or other agents into this lineup? Or maybe get some more variety?

Assuming that you're not limited by recruitment building tiers, but that you aren't just spamming the most elite units, I would go for something like:

MAIN BATTLE LINE

SS BU BU BO BO BO BU BU SS

where SS = Sneaky Skulkers, BU = Big 'Uns, BO = Black Orcs.

Black Orcs aren't your anti-cavalry unit - they're just so heavy-duty that they can take a cavalry charge. Where they shine the most is in absolutely murdering other infantry of all grades - the only other unit that can compete in terms of sheer killiness are Chaos chosen. Use them as the backbone of your line if you can afford them and have them available.

Big 'Uns have an anti-large bonus and so can trade very effectively with cavalry. For this reason they're good flank guards. They're also very good at chopping through mid-low tier infantry, but struggle against armour.

Sneaky Skulkers have the Smoke Bomb ability, which can slow cavalry to a crawl, allowing your Big 'Uns to swarm them. They're also fast and have Stalk, allowing them to wrap around your opponent's flanks unseen and get flank or rear bonuses. They get bonuses to their stats when they're winning combats (which is why you want them picking up those flank/rear charges), and they have armour piercing attacks, which really shines against dwarfs. They're also very cheap.

For cavalry, I think it depends on who you're at war with. Against other factions with cavalry, go for Boar Boy Big 'Uns - they have an anti-large bonus like their infantry cousins, and so can trade very effectively with more elite cav. Against dwarfs or factions that just aren't fielding much cav, Savage Orc Boar Boys (or Big 'Uns) will get the most work done as infantry smashers. The regular boar boys are pretty much trash tier; if you want cheap melee cavalry that's just for running down fleeing opponents bring Wolf Riders. They're cheaper and a helluva lot faster; they also have vanguard deployment so can get at war machines much more easily. Against dwarfs you may also want to consider bringing Squig Herds in your "cavalry" slot - they have armour piercing damage with a bonus versus infantry, so really do great against an army that is 100% armoured infantry. They are very squishy though and can break pretty quickly.

For archers, don't bring missile cav. Most missile cav in TW:WH is not that great. Night Goblin archers are maybe the best pick here, as they give you poison shots to slow and weaken the enemy. The Regiment of Renown version with the armour sundering missiles are great. Greenskins can make a very good rush army though, so unless you are expecting to face lots of flyers you can easily do very well with zero missile units.

For monsters, bring trolls for cheap damage dealing + fear-spreading duty, Giants for massive single-target damage, and spiders as an all-round line-busting powerhouse. Be aware that trolls and spiders both have poor leadership and do best when babysat by heroes or your general. Giants are braver but are very weak to arrow fire; screen them properly or you'll lose them. The Regiment of Renown spider is one of the best monsters in the game; if you've got it available you should take it.

For artillery, Doom Divers are fantastic in open field battles; they're super accurate so will wreck infantry very quickly. In a siege, however, none of your artillery pieces are really good enough to merit bringing. Rushing the gates with Grimgor, trolls or a giant will get you in faster than an artillery barrage can. As such I'd again think of artillery as being optional.

For hero support, a shaman is a must. Either kind is good. The Night Goblin shaman has a one-two buff/debuff AOE combo that can completely shatter an infantry line when used in conjunction with your Black Orcs (Sneaky Stabbin' and Itchy Nuisance), while the Orc Shaman has some great buffs ('Ere We Go and Fists of Gork) and Foot of Gork, which is expensive and situational but can really pay off.

Goblin Big Bosses are also great, but the hero cap on the campaign map means you probably can't do the standard MP trick of having two bosses on spiders acting as your hit squad without an undue concentration of resources in one stack. Get them in your army if you can - they'll support your leadership and make a good hit squad in conjunction with Grimgor or your cavalry - but don't fret if you can't.

So overall I would think of a 20-stack something along the lines of...

Grimgor/Warlord
Night Goblin Shaman (going straight for Sneaky Stabbin'/Itchy Nuisance)
3 Black Orcs
4 Big 'Uns
2 Sneaky Skulkers
Arachnarok Spider (Arachnarok Queen if she's available)
2 Trolls
2 Doom Divers
2 Orc/Savage Orc Boar Boy Big 'Uns (depending on opponent)
2 Wolf Riders/Wolf Rider Archers (for harassment, pursuit of fleeing units, and war machine neutralisation - the bows are just a bonus if you want to bring them)

The Doom Divers let you apply some very cost-effective hurt from range, but the rest of the army is all about bashing faces in up close, the way Gork intended. The trolls should be kept behind the infantry line and sent charging through once the lines clash, but their speed will also allow them to go after backline missile units and chase down fleeing foes. Together with the spider they'll also enable you to smash down castle gates pretty quickly. Keep Grimgor and the spider close together - guarding each other there'll be very little that can threaten them, and Grimgor's leadership will keep the spider from bugging out in a close fight.

If you don't have the DLC for Sneaky Skulkers then replace them with Night Goblins (Fanatics optional), who still have stalk and have poisoned melee attacks to help out your Big 'Uns. The Skulkers are much better though. If you do have the DLC then you could also consider swapping out some of the Skulkers and Wolf Riders for Da Rusty Arrers and some Night Goblin archers. Without the Rusty Arrers though I'd leave archery on the shelf. In campaign you are guaranteed to fight a lot of dwarfs, and Quarrelers will smash your greenskin archers in a missile duel.

Squigs can also fill the Sneaky Skulker role of armour-piercing flankers if you dislike gobbos/like squigs, but they too require the DLC.

EDIT: For a low-cost alternative to Black Orcs in secondary armies, I'd also recommend a line of regular Goblins backed up by a line of trolls. The goblins soak the damage and the trolls deal the damage. Common goblins have silver shields so are one of the best missile screens in the greenskin roster, and if the trolls are winning the melee fight for them they won't run away. Night Goblin Warbosses (again from the DLC) also have a great line of skills for buffing goblin troops that can make common goblins very cost-efficient. With that build it definitely pays to have a Big Boss or two in the army to spread the leadership around though.

Against Empire, VC and Bretonnia you can also get some very cheap & effective armies by using a main line of Savage Orcs. They struggle against armour though so will not do well against Dwarfs or Chaos.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Assuming that you're not limited by recruitment building tiers, but that you aren't just spamming the most elite units, I would go for something like:

MAIN BATTLE LINE

SS BU BU BO BO BO BU BU SS

where SS = Sneaky Skulkers, BU = Big 'Uns, BO = Black Orcs.

Black Orcs aren't your anti-cavalry unit - they're just so heavy-duty that they can take a cavalry charge. Where they shine the most is in absolutely murdering other infantry of all grades - the only other unit that can compete in terms of sheer killiness are Chaos chosen. Use them as the backbone of your line if you can afford them and have them available.

Big 'Uns have an anti-large bonus and so can trade very effectively with cavalry. For this reason they're good flank guards. They're also very good at chopping through mid-low tier infantry, but struggle against armour.

Sneaky Skulkers have the Smoke Bomb ability, which can slow cavalry to a crawl, allowing your Big 'Uns to swarm them. They're also fast and have Stalk, allowing them to wrap around your opponent's flanks unseen and get flank or rear bonuses. They get bonuses to their stats when they're winning combats (which is why you want them picking up those flank/rear charges), and they have armour piercing attacks, which really shines against dwarfs. They're also very cheap.

For cavalry, I think it depends on who you're at war with. Against other factions with cavalry, go for Boar Boy Big 'Uns - they have an anti-large bonus like their infantry cousins, and so can trade very effectively with more elite cav. Against dwarfs or factions that just aren't fielding much cav, Savage Orc Boar Boys (or Big 'Uns) will get the most work done as infantry smashers. The regular boar boys are pretty much trash tier; if you want cheap melee cavalry that's just for running down fleeing opponents bring Wolf Riders. They're cheaper and a helluva lot faster; they also have vanguard deployment so can get at war machines much more easily. Against dwarfs you may also want to consider bringing Squig Herds in your "cavalry" slot - they have armour piercing damage with a bonus versus infantry, so really do great against an army that is 100% armoured infantry. They are very squishy though and can break pretty quickly.

For archers, don't bring missile cav. Most missile cav in TW:WH is not that great. Night Goblin archers are maybe the best pick here, as they give you poison shots to slow and weaken the enemy. The Regiment of Renown version with the armour sundering missiles are great. Greenskins can make a very good rush army though, so unless you are expecting to face lots of flyers you can easily do very well with zero missile units.

For monsters, bring trolls for cheap damage dealing + fear-spreading duty, Giants for massive single-target damage, and spiders as an all-round line-busting powerhouse. Be aware that trolls and spiders both have poor leadership and do best when babysat by heroes or your general. Giants are braver but are very weak to arrow fire; screen them properly or you'll lose them. The Regiment of Renown spider is one of the best monsters in the game; if you've got it available you should take it.

For artillery, Doom Divers are fantastic in open field battles; they're super accurate so will wreck infantry very quickly. In a siege, however, none of your artillery pieces are really good enough to merit bringing. Rushing the gates with Grimgor, trolls or a giant will get you in faster than an artillery barrage can. As such I'd again think of artillery as being optional.

For hero support, a shaman is a must. Either kind is good. The Night Goblin shaman has a one-two buff/debuff AOE combo that can completely shatter an infantry line when used in conjunction with your Black Orcs (Sneaky Stabbin' and Itchy Nuisance), while the Orc Shaman has some great buffs ('Ere We Go and Fists of Gork) and Foot of Gork, which is expensive and situational but can really pay off.

Goblin Big Bosses are also great, but the hero cap on the campaign map means you probably can't do the standard MP trick of having two bosses on spiders acting as your hit squad without an undue concentration of resources in one stack. Get them in your army if you can - they'll support your leadership and make a good hit squad in conjunction with Grimgor or your cavalry - but don't fret if you can't.

So overall I would think of a 20-stack something along the lines of...

Grimgor/Warlord
Night Goblin Shaman (going straight for Sneaky Stabbin'/Itchy Nuisance)
3 Black Orcs
4 Big 'Uns
2 Sneaky Skulkers
Arachnarok Spider (Arachnarok Queen if she's available)
2 Trolls
2 Doom Divers
2 Orc/Savage Orc Boar Boy Big 'Uns (depending on opponent)
2 Wolf Riders/Wolf Rider Archers (for harassment, pursuit of fleeing units, and war machine neutralisation - the bows are just a bonus if you want to bring them)

The Doom Divers let you apply some very cost-effective hurt from range, but the rest of the army is all about bashing faces in up close, the way Gork intended. The trolls should be kept behind the infantry line and sent charging through once the lines clash, but their speed will also allow them to go after backline missile units and chase down fleeing foes. Together with the spider they'll also enable you to smash down castle gates pretty quickly. Keep Grimgor and the spider close together - guarding each other there'll be very little that can threaten them, and Grimgor's leadership will keep the spider from bugging out in a close fight.

If you don't have the DLC for Sneaky Skulkers then replace them with Night Goblins (Fanatics optional), who still have stalk and have poisoned melee attacks to help out your Big 'Uns. The Skulkers are much better though. If you do have the DLC then you could also consider swapping out some of the Skulkers and Wolf Riders for Da Rusty Arrers and some Night Goblin archers. Without the Rusty Arrers though I'd leave archery on the shelf. In campaign you are guaranteed to fight a lot of dwarfs, and Quarrelers will smash your greenskin archers in a missile duel.

Squigs can also fill the Sneaky Skulker role of armour-piercing flankers if you dislike gobbos/like squigs, but they too require the DLC.

EDIT: For a low-cost alternative to Black Orcs in secondary armies, I'd also recommend a line of regular Goblins backed up by a line of trolls. The goblins soak the damage and the trolls deal the damage. Common goblins have silver shields so are one of the best missile screens in the greenskin roster, and if the trolls are winning the melee fight for them they won't run away. Night Goblin Warbosses (again from the DLC) also have a great line of skills for buffing goblin troops that can make common goblins very cost-efficient. With that build it definitely pays to have a Big Boss or two in the army to spread the leadership around though.

Against Empire, VC and Bretonnia you can also get some very cheap & effective armies by using a main line of Savage Orcs. They struggle against armour though so will not do well against Dwarfs or Chaos.

This is VERY helpful! Thank you!

It seems a Dwarfs lineup would probably be very similar: a core of Iron Breakers with Slayers on the flanks for large things and then...I dunno, Longbeards? Hammerers? Plus I'm not sure how to go without cavalry. I'm assuming the Gyrocopters kind of fill that role, but you know what they say about the word "assume!"

[LCP]

I would say that in campaign, Dwarf army comp is very simple - against the AI it's just a matter of bringing a sufficiently wide and tanky front line for your missile troops to wreck everything from a position of safety. You can make a stack that's just 100% dwarf warriors/quarrelers (at maybe a 60/40 mix) and with tech tree bonuses it'll scale very well right up until the mid-late game (whenever you start having to deal with Chaos really).

Designing a stack at a similar level to the GS one, and assuming you don't want to do a boring spam build... I would suggest something like this:


MAIN BATTLE LINE:
4 Dwarf Warriors
3 Ironbreakers.

You'll want to mix up how many of the warriors have great weapons depending on what kind of enemy you're facing. Most of the time I would go with majority shields - your infantry line's job is to hold, not blend, and the AI likes recruiting archers - but when Chaos arrives you will need the armour piercing damage of great weapons. If you want to go more elite you can replace the warriors with longbeards, but with tech + lord skills warriors remain effective well into the late game, and dwarf stacks are expensive.

Ironbreakers aren't like Black Orcs; they're maybe the tankiest unit in the game, but they dish very little damage in combat. Their main damage-dealing potential comes from their blasting charges - make sure you get those volleys in as the lines close. In sieges blasting charges are amazing - due to their AOE effect battlements give very little cover against them, so you can absolutely shred defenders on walls with your charges before you begin a ladder assault. Blasting charges also toss enemy units around so are great for disrupting a charge.

If you have access to regiments of renown, Norgrimling's Ironbreakers are worth their cost - extremely durable even by Ironbreaker standards.

MISSILE LINE:

4 Quarrelers or Rangers
2 Thunderers or Rangers with Great Weapons

The crossbow troops provide your real damage-dealing power to clear out cheap enemy infantry and focus down lightly-armoured monsters. The gunners/throwing axes provide armour piercing damage to deal with enemy lords, cavalry and armoured monsters like the Arachnarok. If you're facing a lord on a flying monster, the Thunderers are best, as they have a longer range and their bullets travel faster (so are harder to dodge). If you're facing a target that will oblige you by sitting still at short range then the throwing axes are probably a better choice.

Rangers all have Stalk, so can operate with a little less protection than the other missile troops if you're clever about tricking the AI. The downside though is that they have much less armour, so don't trade as well with big blobs of enemy archers (which Quarrelers will wreck with minimal losses).

The ideal dwarf strategy is to find a slope where this group can fire down over the heads of your infantry line into the melee. The crossbows have the arc to do that anyway but the thunderers are very easily obstructed. Unless you're in a very lopsided fight (i.e. outnumbered enough to run out of ammo before the enemy breaks) this is probably the group that will break the back of the enemy army.

ARTILLERY:

2 cannons or 2 grudge throwers

In the early game, grudge throwers will clear greenskin infantry hordes very nicely, and soften up the enemy morale in big blob fights. Cannons are of more use in the late game when you're fighting more monsters and heavy cavalry, although they can do a decent job against dense infantry formations too. They're invaluable to have against Chaos when Archaon arrives - they'll wreck Chaos Knights and chariots, and when they hit a Giant they tend to knock it down even when they don't kill it, significantly delaying its arrival at your lines. Mount Gunbad has a special building that lets you recruit cannons with hella veterancy - get this as soon as you can, as high-veterancy cannons get extremely accurate. Cannons can also do good counter-battery service against the Empire as they have higher base accuracy than shoddy umgi knockoffs. (Can you tell I like cannons?)

A regiment of renown worth mentioning here is the Gob Lobber. It's hilarious and also super-effective. It can pull counter-battery duty to equal or greater effect than a cannon, as even if it doesn't score the same quantity of direct hits, its morale debuff quickly routs artillery crews. In MP my 2 artillery pieces are always 1 cannon + the Gob Lobber.

If it's the late game and you want to have fun, you can experiment with Flame Cannons - they're very pricey and short ranged, but can be devastating against the AI, doing extreme damage to even very elite infantry like Chosen. Organ guns I would say are sadly not worth taking in most circumstances, and bolt throwers are budget cannons - there for you if you need cannons but don't yet have the buildings/cash.

REARGUARD:

2 Slayers
2 Longbeards with Great Weapons

These are to keep cavalry and other fast units off your missile line. Slayers are the fastest ground units in the dwarf roster, with a powerful charge and a big anti-large bonus, so use them as roving interceptors to catch cavalry and monsters and stay on their back when things get messy. The Longbeards meanwhile have a nice dense formation and charge defence against large, meaning they can position themselves as a wall to block off cavalry charges. As long as they're braced when the charge hits they'll shrug off a lot of the damage. Their encouragement aura helps keep the missile units around once things get messy and the armour piercing damage from the great weapons helps them chop through heavy cavalry.

In your favourite stack I would make sure to get the Grumbling Guard as one of the longbeards - as well as an encouragement aura they also replenish the fatigue of nearby units, which is immensely powerful in the kind of drawn-out battles of attrition dwarfs favour.

If the enemy stack doesn't have enough fast troops to encircle you, then you can just merge this group into the front line.

That's 19 units, so add a lord to taste (if you're picking a LL, Grombrindal is a melee beast, while Thorgrim provides powerful buffs to your infantry; if it's a generic lord, the Runelord has amazing utility and is much more survivable than typical wizard lords). Runesmiths are brill but will be limited by hero caps on the campaign map - if you can bring one then I'd absolutely drop a dwarf warrior unit to slot him in. Be aware that your leaders are slow, so easy targets for beefy enemy lords - Grimgor in particular will demolish any dwarf lord that isn't Grombrindal. A hit squad of Thanes or a bodyguard unit of Hammerers can help turn the tables in that situation - but generally your best answer to enemy lords is your Thunderers.

Gyros require some quite high-tier buildings to unlock, but are worth including once you start fighting Chaos, particularly the Brimstone Gun variant - I would think of them as a replacement for either Quarrelers or artillery. Their bombs are extremely effective when dropped over an engaged infantry line, and their guns can do a lot of damage to cavalry and monsters. Most of all they are maybe the best way to deal with Hellcannons, which Archaon's buddies will bring a lot of, and which will absolutely destroy a dwarf army if left to their own devices. The cheaper steam gun variant is highly effective in MP at cleaning up lightly-armoured infantry (e.g. Greenskins), but in campaign I find that generally by the time you unlock them you will already have the Greenskins on the run.

The gyrobomber I wouldn't rate, but the RoR version is perhaps an exception to the rule.

EDIT: A few more words about cavalry: dwarfs in campaign just have to live with the fact that they can't run fleeing armies down. Rather than one decisive battle you have to fight two or three as you chase down and mop up the survivors on the campaign map (although the later ones should be easily autoresolved). Slayers can chase down most infantry, but are difficult to recruit and not a unit you want to have lots of (and frequently don't survive the battle with high numbers); Gyros are fast enough to chase anything, but are even more difficult to recruit and only have 3 models per unit so are very ineffective at actually killing routing enemies.

Generally the best thing to chase routing enemies with is crossbow bolts and artillery fire. There are lord and hero skills that can boost your ammo reserves army-wide if you really want to make sure you shoot as many of the cowards down as possible.