My Little Pony XCVI: Long Live the King

[Alabenson]

You say that with the implication that's not the proper solution to the whole problem in the first place...

I didn't say it wasn't an effective solution, just not one that really requires him to deal with the concept of loss. To quote a line from the prototype fic;

Discord (to Celestia): "Maybe you have to learn to deal with loss, you're you, but I'm Discord, Spirit of Chaos and Disharmony! I don't have to learn to deal with anything!"

[DigoDragon]

Time to kill some kittens.

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Dear Princess Luna,

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Last night I found out that you could crash a game so hard, that not only does it corrupt your save file, but it corrupts the save file on the Steam cloud. Yes, the corruption has been doubled.

Starting over from scratch,

The Deeg

[Millstone85]

The Immortality Angst thing mostly shows up in teenagers and teenager writing; it feels to me less like a coherent position and more like a personal cry of loss for the author's own childhood. People who for the first time are confronting powerful, transformational change and the encroaching inevitability of adulthood and responsibility naturally gravitate towards characters who can be young and free and beautiful forever. The despair the immortal character feels towards outliving all his friends is really just the author mourning that she will grow old and die and the world will continue on without her. It's sad, but in a different way to what the story is ostensibly about - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's a big thought that people have to grapple with.

The pathetic coin has another side. The myriad ways in which immortality has been portrayed as awful, including the one you just mentioned, is clearly a narrative meant to make the writer and their audience feel better about the inevitability of death.

If we can't reach those grapes, they must be sour.

[Pi Pie]

After the end of Season 6, do you think that Discord has expanded his friendship circle?

At the start, his only real friend was Fluttershy with the other ponies just acquaintances to hang out with.

But at the end, he had a full adventure with Thorax, Trixie, and Starlight. I wonder if Discord is going to make Starlight his second best friend behind Fluttershy.

It's not like anything could go wrong with those two teaming up.

[Rater202]

You say that with the implication that's not the proper solution to the whole problem in the first place...

Making everyone immortal runs into the problems where the jackasses never go away, but I think I mentioned previously that the correct solution to the problem of not wanting to outlive your loved ones is to figure out howtoreplicate your immortality and offer it to them.

It also solves the problem of becoming more and more estranged from humanity(or it's equivalent) as the generations go on(I imagine that you'll have a hard time connecting to people around the third time you outlive your youngest extant great grand child,) which honestly seems like the bigger problem.

[Millstone85]

After the end of Season 6, do you think that Discord has expanded his friendship circle?

At the start, his only real friend was Fluttershy with the other ponies just acquaintances to hang out with.

At the end of MNFbKD, he seemed to realise Smooze was more than just a tool for him to use.

In WAD, we learned about offscreen bonding with Applejack, Rarity, Dash and Pinkie.

In D&D (ha!), we saw him befriend Spike and Big Mac (and maybe further befriend Dash and Pinkie).

And now he is part of the Reformed Four.

But at the end, he had a full adventure with Thorax, Trixie, and Starlight. I wonder if Discord is going to make Starlight his second best friend behind Fluttershy.

It's not like anything could go wrong with those two teaming up.

Paradoxically, the spirit of chaos has displayed more control over his magic than any other character.

[DigoDragon]

Making everyone immortal runs into the problems where the jackasses never go away, but I think I mentioned previously that the correct solution to the problem of not wanting to outlive your loved ones is to figure out howtoreplicate your immortality and offer it to them.

Which could cause a complication of 'what if they don't accept it' or 'what if they want you to give up yours'?

That does bring up a good question--what if you can't 'turn it off'? Once the world ends (and it will by the sun if not sooner) you're gonna be stuck alone for a really long time if you have no method of space travel.

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[Rater202]

Which could cause a complication of 'what if they don't accept it' or 'what if they want you to give up yours'?

1: You offered. That alone would make it easier to cope.

2: Assuming that your immortality does not require you to continuously perform something morally reprehensible, then they're being jackasses. "We want you to grow old, get sick, and die like we will!"
"I offered you immortlity!"
"We don't want to live forever, we just don't want you to either."

And if you live from now to when the sun goes red giant and haven't accumulated a vast fortune and built a high-quality space vessel o get you and your current loved ones to another inhabitable planet/station/colony where it's safe, then you fail at immortality.

[Aotrs Commander]

FRAG.

DAMMIT.

RNG.

Three 6 IV Contrary Snivy males now.

A box and a half of 5-IVs, I-don't-even less than that traded out.

I got very excited for a miniye when I bread a 5-IV all-but-attack female... Until I looked at the ability. Overgrow.

[Expletive]ing, [expletive]ing [expletive]-sticks on a pile of [expletiving] [expetive].


(An aside from a half-hour of CAD, that's the sum total of what I've been up to usefully doing today...)

Which could cause a complication of 'what if they don't accept it' or 'what if they want you to give up yours'?

1) "Then go and die quietly in the corner, then mi'laddo, and hush. You had the option, if you don't want it fine, but you don't then get to complain."

2) Particle beams. MANY particle beams.

(Seriously, I cannot recognise any situation whereby anyone could ask that without it being selfish and/or evil. If you are saying to your loved ones "I want you to die when I die," you probably don't really love them much then, and anyone more estranged that that is basically asking you to commit suicide, which should be treated with all the contempt that deserves.)

That does bring up a good question--what if you can't 'turn it off'? Once the world ends (and it will by the sun if not sooner) you're gonna be stuck alone for a really long time if you have no method of space travel.

If your civilisation full of smart, ageless experts can't figure out how to make FTL/Sleeper ships in the time alloted, you kinda deserve it. Barring any end-of-the-world scenarios, but then it's yout fault for not stopping them, especially if your immortality is not just "ageless" but actually "does not require sustenance."

If you are the only one with that sort of immortality, then it jst means YOU have to ensure that the aforementioned happens in the BILLIONS OF YEARS before your sun explodes. (Again, barring the aforementioned end-of-the-world scenarios, which you better work fast to prevent then...)

Basically, what Rater said.

[Rater202]

(Seriously, I cannot recognise any situation whereby anyone could ask that without it being selfish and/or evil. If you are saying to your loved ones "I want you to die when I die," you probably don't really love them much then, and anyone more estranged that that is basically asking you to commit suicide, which should be treated with all the contempt that deserves.)

For the sake of playing Devil's advocate, I could see it being unselfish or unevil if your immortality is granted or maintained by immortalmeans or damaging to your sanity or to your soul.

Like an Abberation from El Goonish Shive. A Spell Caster who willingly forsuke not only their humanity but their abillty to have empathy for anything(if they weren't a total sociopath before they are now.) in order to gain immortality at the cost of having to sustain themselves by feeding on human beings in a predatory or parasitic manner. As far as we know, that's the only way to get immortality in setting and I could understand people not wanting their loved ones to become one.

You'd hate them, btw. Most of them are so easily confused with vampires that it's become an acceptable shorthand for them.

But if all you've done is surgically implant a philosopher's stone in your body for a constant steady drip of Elixir of Life then yeah, jerk move.

[Aotrs Commander]

For the sake of playing Devil's advocate, I could see it being unselfish or unevil if your immortality is granted or maintained by immortalmeans or damaging to your sanity or to your soul.

Like an Abberation from El Goonish Shive. A Spell Caster who willingly forsuke not only their humanity but their abillty to have empathy for anything(if they weren't a total sociopath before they are now.) in order to gain immortality at the cost of having to sustain themselves by feeding on human beings in a predatory or parasitic manner. As far as we know, that's the only way to get immortality in setting and I could understand people not wanting their loved ones to become one.

You'd hate them, btw. Most of them are so easily confused with vampires that it's become an acceptable shorthand for them.

But if all you've done is surgically implant a philosopher's stone in your body for a constant steady drip of Elixir of Life then yeah, jerk move.

That sort of situation did not resonate to me with Digo's phrasing of "want you to give it up." In the whole "you're a vampire/cannibal" sort of situation, it's not really mthe immortality that is itself the real sticking point, it's the point you're, like, murdering and eating people and stuff or something. Also not the usually sort of situation that suggests that "giving it up" is sort of an option; though, yes, I concede there may be some intervention-type edge cases.

[b_jonas]

About long-lived ponies.

After six seasons of seeing ponies in Equestria, I'm starting to suspect that something is off with all the ponies.

Everyone is aging very slowly. During the six seasons, there was suspiciously few examples of ponies getting older or dying. Almost everypony appears to be exactly the same size and age as we've first seen them on screen. Possible counterexamples are the Cake foals, who may have been larger a month later than when they were born, but it's hard to compare because they're shown in different positions, and Princess Luna who has changed to a different body shape, but likely not from aging. All the foals we've met are still foals of apparently the same age. Apart from that one short scene in S2 E17 apparently showing a funeral, there was no mention of anyone dying.

I'm not yet certain about anything, but I think there's some sort of uber-magic around that makes everypony age incredibly slowly. While this magic keeps up, ponies will remain the exact same age for centuries, and almost nopony will die. It is likely that eventually no new ponies will be born either.

It seems though that Equestria wasn't always like this. We've seen a lot of flashbacks to when people were younger than now, and it doesn't seem like those were a very long time ago. I think the uber-magic is sustained by the powers of Princess Celestia and Princess Luna together, and it was started or restarted when Princess Luna has returned from his banishment. You mention that Discord could be involved in something like this, which is also possible.

That does bring up a good question--what if you can't 'turn it off'? Once the world ends (and it will by the sun if not sooner) you're gonna be stuck alone for a really long time if you have no method of space travel.

Even if Princess Celestia or some other pony has an incredibly long lifespan, I don't think that gives us a reason to think they're that much immortal. That sort of thing is just far-fetched. Living for ten thousand years is much easier than living for longer than the stars. (When you buy "fireproof" glassware for cooking that isn't harmed in the high temperatures in your oven, do you think it's so fireproof that it would survive getting thrown into the center of the Sun?)

Honestly I think Celestia had children in the past, and none of them were alicorns. Luna never had any children […]

I was wondering about this. Sunset Shimmer may have been Princess Celestia's daughter (and her original name was Rosemary). Princess Celestia doesn't want any more children for a while after that disappointment, and Princess Luna wants to work on her personal insecurities a bit more before she can consider raising a child. If it's true that they age slowly, they might still be fertile a few centuries later when they get over all this. (And yeah, let's not get into that “beyond even our understanding” statement again, we've already talked it to death.)

Twilight, you have phenomenal cosmic teleport powers. Why bother with wings?

No, she doesn't. As far as I can tell, she can only teleport back to places he's familiar with (or randomly teleport in S4 E26). That is a usual restriction for magical teleportation, and my headcanon is that Twilight couldn't get over it yet. It's Starlight Glimmer who has phenomenal cosmic teleport powers, although she may also be limited in how often she can use that power.

LEGO Batman is, without any level of facesiousness, the best Batman movie yet released.

I've yet to watch it. I'm just back from my skiing holiday, which is always the best time of the year every year, and I couldn't watch before because too few cinemas showed it with original sound for some reason, so I may have to wait for a home media release. I did guess that it's the kind of film I'd like, but thank you for confirming that.

[Aotrs Commander]

About long-lived ponies.

After six seasons of seeing ponies in Equestria, I'm starting to suspect that something is off with all the ponies.

Everyone is aging very slowly. During the six seasons, there was suspiciously few examples of ponies getting older or dying. Almost everypony appears to be exactly the same size and age as we've first seen them on screen. Possible counterexamples are the Cake foals, who may have been larger a month later than when they were born, but it's hard to compare because they're shown in different positions, and Princess Luna who has changed to a different body shape, but likely not from aging. All the foals we've met are still foals of apparently the same age. Apart from that one short scene in S2 E17 apparently showing a funeral, there was no mention of anyone dying.

Remember that it was revealed that the majority of season one to five took place over the time spand of only about a year, (to my incredulity, disbelief and then extensive analysis which determined it was just possible).

[DigoDragon]

FRAG.
DAMMIT.
RNG.

That's kinda what the RNG does.

Everyone is aging very slowly. During the six seasons, there was suspiciously few examples of ponies getting older or dying.

Well, the first 3-4 seasons took place within the span of a year, so really time isn't passing very quick. Also, being a show aimed at a younger audience, I doubt they'll tackle subjects like death.

The Simpsons has a longer running span of in-show time and nothing really changes there.


Edit--
My Marine friend sent me this military pony joke. I've hung out with enough Marines that this is really the kind of weird stuff they joke about.

[b_jonas]

Remember that it was revealed that the majority of season one to five took place over the time spand of only about a year, (to my incredulity, disbelief and then extensive analysis which determined it was just possible).

Possibly, although I think it's at least almost two years now, with two springs, two Summer Sun Celebrations, two or three Hearth's Warming Days, two Nightmare Nights, two Sisterhooves Socials, and two or three Grand Galloping Galas.

The Simpsons has a longer running span of in-show time and nothing really changes there.

Yes, and G. Szabó Judit has written books about Anikó/Andrea and her family from 1973 to 2009. They always appear to be set in the present day, but even if not, the older ones are definitely set before the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the latest ones definitely in the time when ordinary people do video calls over the internet, so that's at least 15 years of difference. During that time, Anikó and her sisters have aged only a few years. It's better this way, because the readers (especially the young ones) will understand books set in the present day more easily, but it's more fun to read about Anikó while she's a teenager. I know in-universe timelines don't always make sense.

[Pi Pie]

About long-lived ponies.

After six seasons of seeing ponies in Equestria, I'm starting to suspect that something is off with all the ponies.

Everyone is aging very slowly. During the six seasons, there was suspiciously few examples of ponies getting older or dying. Almost everypony appears to be exactly the same size and age as we've first seen them on screen. Possible counterexamples are the Cake foals, who may have been larger a month later than when they were born, but it's hard to compare because they're shown in different positions, and Princess Luna who has changed to a different body shape, but likely not from aging. All the foals we've met are still foals of apparently the same age. Apart from that one short scene in S2 E17 apparently showing a funeral, there was no mention of anyone dying.

I'm not yet certain about anything, but I think there's some sort of uber-magic around that makes everypony age incredibly slowly. While this magic keeps up, ponies will remain the exact same age for centuries, and almost nopony will die. It is likely that eventually no new ponies will be born either.

It seems though that Equestria wasn't always like this. We've seen a lot of flashbacks to when people were younger than now, and it doesn't seem like those were a very long time ago. I think the uber-magic is sustained by the powers of Princess Celestia and Princess Luna together, and it was started or restarted when Princess Luna has returned from his banishment. You mention that Discord could be involved in something like this, which is also possible.

I view pony aging through quantum mechanics.

Just like the electrons in an atom can only be at certain discrete energy levels, pony ages are only at discrete levels (not born, baby, foal, adult, old, dead). There may be more that I am forgetting.

This is supported by the age spell Trixie cast. It increased the age of Snips and Snails by a significant degree. It is also why the spell is so hard to cast. There is a fundamental minimum amount of magical energy needed to increase or decrease an age level. Unless you can produce that energy, the spell will not work.

Spoiler: Atoms

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[b_jonas]

Just like the electrons in an atom can only be at certain discrete energy levels, pony ages are only at discrete levels (not born, baby, foal, adult, old, dead). There may be more that I am forgetting.

Yes, those are called "age categories" in D&D speak. But we haven't seen anypony change age category since the start of the first season, with the exceptions listed before.

[Rater202]

Obviously Ponies are a "mon" species and only age by acquiring enough battle experience to metamorphose into a more powerful form.

[digiman619]

Obviously Ponies are a "mon" species and only age by acquiring enough battle experience to metamorphose into a more powerful form.

Well, that would explain Thorax...

[Alabenson]

Well, the first 3-4 seasons took place within the span of a year, so really time isn't passing very quick. Also, being a show aimed at a younger audience, I doubt they'll tackle subjects like death.

The Simpsons has a longer running span of in-show time and nothing really changes there.

Honestly, over the past 6 seasons MLP has been willing to make many more significant changes to the show's status quo than the Simpsons has in its entire history.

[ross]

About long-lived ponies.

After six seasons of seeing ponies in Equestria, I'm starting to suspect that something is off with all the ponies.

Everyone is aging very slowly. During the six seasons, there was suspiciously few examples of ponies getting older or dying. Almost everypony appears to be exactly the same size and age as we've first seen them on screen. Possible counterexamples are the Cake foals, who may have been larger a month later than when they were born, but it's hard to compare because they're shown in different positions, and Princess Luna who has changed to a different body shape, but likely not from aging. All the foals we've met are still foals of apparently the same age. Apart from that one short scene in S2 E17 apparently showing a funeral, there was no mention of anyone dying.

I'm not yet certain about anything, but I think there's some sort of uber-magic around that makes everypony age incredibly slowly. While this magic keeps up, ponies will remain the exact same age for centuries, and almost nopony will die. It is likely that eventually no new ponies will be born either.

It seems though that Equestria wasn't always like this. We've seen a lot of flashbacks to when people were younger than now, and it doesn't seem like those were a very long time ago. I think the uber-magic is sustained by the powers of Princess Celestia and Princess Luna together, and it was started or restarted when Princess Luna has returned from his banishment. You mention that Discord could be involved in something like this, which is also possible.

Even if Princess Celestia or some other pony has an incredibly long lifespan, I don't think that gives us a reason to think they're that much immortal. That sort of thing is just far-fetched. Living for ten thousand years is much easier than living for longer than the stars. (When you buy "fireproof" glassware for cooking that isn't harmed in the high temperatures in your oven, do you think it's so fireproof that it would survive getting thrown into the center of the Sun?)

I was wondering about this. Sunset Shimmer may have been Princess Celestia's daughter (and her original name was Rosemary). Princess Celestia doesn't want any more children for a while after that disappointment, and Princess Luna wants to work on her personal insecurities a bit more before she can consider raising a child. If it's true that they age slowly, they might still be fertile a few centuries later when they get over all this. (And yeah, let's not get into that “beyond even our understanding” statement again, we've already talked it to death.)

No, she doesn't. As far as I can tell, she can only teleport back to places he's familiar with (or randomly teleport in S4 E26). That is a usual restriction for magical teleportation, and my headcanon is that Twilight couldn't get over it yet. It's Starlight Glimmer who has phenomenal cosmic teleport powers, although she may also be limited in how often she can use that power.

I've yet to watch it. I'm just back from my skiing holiday, which is always the best time of the year every year, and I couldn't watch before because too few cinemas showed it with original sound for some reason, so I may have to wait for a home media release. I did guess that it's the kind of film I'd like, but thank you for confirming that.

Cartoon characters age if and when the writers want them to.

[DigoDragon]

Cartoon characters age if and when the writers want them to.

Subject to producer/parent company approval.


Animated Lyra.

[digiman619]

Synopses for Episode 3 amd Episode 4

Spoiler: My reaction

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So now it's Twilight's turn for baby shenanigans, and Maud might move to Ponyville. Neat.

[t209]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbzSkOa_hU
Standing, On the Edge.

[DigoDragon]

Synopses for Episode 3 amd Episode 4

Spoiler: My reaction

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So now it's Twilight's turn for baby shenanigans, and Maud might move to Ponyville. Neat.

Spoiler: Thoughts on Season 7

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Another "babies are hard to care for" episode? I dunno. Maybe it's fun, but I think my perception is tainted by the fact I'm a parent. XD

I feel like Maud will end up not moving.

[junlogji]

are there any other fans of the mentally advanced series on here?

[Pi Pie]

Spoiler: Season 7 Episode 3

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Synopsis:
After planning a jam-packed day, Twilight Sparkle also agrees to babysit her niece, Flurry Heart. But with Flurry Heart along for the ride, Twilight Sparkle struggles to maintain her title as "The Best Aunt Ever" while keeping Flurry Heart out of trouble!

Twilight, just give Flurry Heart to Spike with a promise of gems if he doesn't destroy the castle. As long as the universe does not act against him, Spike's track record is very good.

Spoiler: Season 7 Episode 4

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Synopsis:
When Pinkie Pie learns that Maud might move to Ponyville, she does everything she can to make sure her sister sees that it has more to offer than just rocks.

More than just rock? Pinkie, if you want Maud to move, that's all that you should emphasize. Take her to the quarry with the rock eels. Try to match up Tom with Boulder.

[Thanqol]

are there any other fans of the mentally advanced series on here?

Fo' sho' mah bro'

[Aotrs Commander]

are there any other fans of the mentally advanced series on here?

Not of the original run, (I tried a couple of times, but could not get into it) but certainly of the Rainbow Dash Presents, Nanalysis and the newer, self-animated negative seasons, yes.

[DigoDragon]

Luna gave up.

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Spoiler: Season 7 Episode 3

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Twilight, just give Flurry Heart to Spike with a promise of gems if he doesn't destroy the castle. As long as the universe does not act against him, Spike's track record is very good.

Spoiler: Episode 7-3

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It's kind of sad to think about in one way, but I think Spike stands a better success rate these days cause the writers that made him into a cosmic plaything left.

Spoiler: Season 7 Episode 4

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More than just rock? Pinkie, if you want Maud to move, that's all that you should emphasize. Take her to the quarry with the rock eels. Try to match up Tom with Boulder.

Spoiler: Episode 7-4

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It would be nice if Maud was more than a fairly flat character; Rocks, deadpan reactions, loves her sis. Not much there to work with. Maybe Maud declines to move because Ponyville is to noisy and busy with weekly monster attacks friendship problems. ;)