What's your favorite headcanon?

[Lord Raziere]

I'm kind of amazed that we are policing the concept of headcanons now. "No that piece of unintended interpretation doesn't obey the rules!"

The whole concept of a headcanon is on par with old fashioned lit theory where we try to dissect the curtain colors for freudian analysis. It is for fun.

yeah, I agree, my "head discanon" term is just me joking really.

my head canon is anticanon is twist canon. behold my ca-nonsense.

my ca-nonsense is that Pokemon and humans just eat all the real animals and that no pokemon is eaten by a human ever except twisted criminals.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm kind of amazed that we are policing the concept of headcanons now. "No that piece of unintended interpretation doesn't obey the rules!"

The whole concept of a headcanon is on par with old fashioned lit theory where we try to dissect the curtain colors for freudian analysis. It is for fun.

It doesn't really matter, that specific headcanon just threw me off so much I wanted some sort of elaboration I guess.

[Kitten Champion]

I'm kind of amazed that we are policing the concept of headcanons now. "No that piece of unintended interpretation doesn't obey the rules!"

The whole concept of a headcanon is on par with old fashioned lit theory where we try to dissect the curtain colors for freudian analysis. It is for fun.

I agree, it's honestly pretty vanilla as far as these things go to see arguments for why villain(s) of popular works are actually the hero(es) or vice versa.

I will say though as it pretains to an earlier post, your headcanon can't make a work not actually exist. It can only remove it from your personal canonical significance.

[Cikomyr]

Theory: Eowynn never stopped pinning for Aragorn. She "suddenly" fell in love with Faramir as an excuse for her to remain and live in the same city as King Elessar.

She hopes to eventually seduce him into an affair while faking a happy life with her husband of convenience.

[Mith]

Theory: Eowynn never stopped pinning for Aragorn. She "suddenly" fell in love with Faramir as an excuse for her to remain and live in the same city as King Elessar.

She hopes to eventually seduce him into an affair while faking a happy life with her husband of convenience.

Since she only saw Aragorn as a means to escape, I would say she never loved him. They do have a conversation before he leaves Rohan that I believes hints at this, if not outright states this.

Faramir was a surprise to an unguarded heart, so to speak.

[Bohandas]

I will say though as it pretains to an earlier post, your headcanon can't make a work not actually exist. It can only remove it from your personal canonical significance.

And because of this none of the Disney Star Wars movies happened, as they contradict the established timeline and family trees

[comicshorse]

Sauron/Saruman were progressive visionaries trying to better middle earth, but are made to appear evil when filtered through the regressive lenses of Tolkien.

I believe Michael Moorcock suggested this in his book about fantasy 'Wizadry and Wild Romance'

[TripleD]

I know it's an anachronism, but I like the idea that the song Birdhouse In Your Soul is about Twitter (Based mainly on two lines: "Blue canary in the outlet" and "It's a simple message and I'm leaving out the whistles and bells")

I feel similar about Barenaked Ladies “Falling for the First Time”. It’s from 2001, but a lot of it feels (to me) like it’s talking about Instagram/Social Media/Internet Dating.

“Anyone perfect must be lying; Anything easy has its cost”

[Androgeus]

And because of this none of the Disney Star Wars movies happened, as they contradict the established timeline and family trees

I don’t have much sympathy for Star Wars EU fans. There was already levels of canonicty which should tell anyone that they’ll dump the EU if they thought they could make money by doing so.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Sauron/Saruman were progressive visionaries trying to better middle earth, but are made to appear evil when filtered through the regressive lenses of Tolkien.

I think someone wrote a full length novel to kind of this effect. The core concept is I think that Sauron or no Sauron, the mixed society of orcs, goblins, wild men and trolls stuffed away into the inhospitable lands of Mordor were pretty much guaranteed to rise up against the oppressors from more powerful racist segregated societies who put them there. Who wouldn't object to that sort of treatment?

[Traab]

I think someone wrote a full length novel to kind of this effect. The core concept is I think that Sauron or no Sauron, the mixed society of orcs, goblins, wild men and trolls stuffed away into the inhospitable lands of Mordor were pretty much guaranteed to rise up against the oppressors from more powerful racist segregated societies who put them there. Who wouldn't object to that sort of treatment?

Yeah it leans really heavily on the unreliable narrator trope where the entire silmarillion and the lotr series is propaganda to make sense though. And I do mean pretty much the entire thing as start to finish it makes clear all the horrible stuff sauron has done especially. But its also incredibly easy to justify with a simple phrase, "The winners are the ones who write the history books" That phrase alone makes it all seem reasonable, or at least possible that this theory is correct.

[Fyraltari]

Theory: Eowynn never stopped pinning for Aragorn. She "suddenly" fell in love with Faramir as an excuse for her to remain and live in the same city as King Elessar.

She hopes to eventually seduce him into an affair while faking a happy life with her husband of convenience.

That’s a terrible plan then since Faramir and her moved to their new fief in Ithilien pretty much immediately. Which is even how Aragorn got out of having to punish Beregond.

I think someone wrote a full length novel to kind of this effect. The core concept is I think that Sauron or no Sauron, the mixed society of orcs, goblins, wild men and trolls stuffed away into the inhospitable lands of Mordor were pretty much guaranteed to rise up against the oppressors from more powerful racist segregated societies who put them there. Who wouldn't object to that sort of treatment?

Orcs and goblins are one and the same. The men working with Sauron are not wild, they have kingdoms and stuff. The Wild Men are the Druedain who are amongst the Free People (and oppressed by the Gondorrim).
Amusingly that narratives exists within the Legendarium more or less as an agent of Morgoth (who may or may not be Sauron) tried to convince the Men that this whole ‘Dark Lord’ business is just Elven propaganda to justify occupying the lands of the Orcs.

Yeah it leans really heavily on the unreliable narrator trope where the entire silmarillion and the lotr series is propaganda to make sense though. And I do mean pretty much the entire thing as start to finish it makes clear all the horrible stuff sauron has done especially. But its also incredibly easy to justify with a simple phrase, "The winners are the ones who write the history books" That phrase alone makes it all seem reasonable, or at least possible that this theory is correct.

That phrase isn’t reasonnable either. And unnecessary if you have to dismiss only one source call them biased, that’s enough.

[comicshorse]

Yeah it leans really heavily on the unreliable narrator trope where the entire silmarillion and the lotr series is propaganda to make sense though. And I do mean pretty much the entire thing as start to finish it makes clear all the horrible stuff sauron has done especially. But its also incredibly easy to justify with a simple phrase, "The winners are the ones who write the history books" That phrase alone makes it all seem reasonable, or at least possible that this theory is correct.

Serious question. I haven't read the books for decades but I don't remember Sauron doing anything that a normal warlord wouldn't do when seeking to conquer other kingdoms

[Fyraltari]

Serious question. I haven't read the books for decades but I don't remember Sauron doing anything that a normal warlord wouldn't do when seeking to conquer other kingdoms

How's Eregion doing? How yeah there's nothing left there. How is Eriador? Generally empty now. Where are the Ent-Wives? They lived just next to Sauron's place...

Also it really should tell you everything you need to know about the guy that his chief leutenants have no will of their own left (the Nazgûl) or forgot their own name (the Mouth of Sauron) and he commands his armies by way of mind control.

[comicshorse]

How's Eregion doing? How yeah there's nothing left there. How is Eriador? Generally empty now. Where are the Ent-Wives? They lived just next to Sauron's place...

Eriagon, conquered and its inhabitants driven out. Yep that's what warlords do. Eriador doesn't seem to have been conquered by Sauron. The Ent Wives vanished but I don't recall anybody saying it was Sauron's doing

Speaking of the Mouth of Sauron I remember the offer he makes to Arragon being very reasonable and would have brought an end to the conflict without any more bloodshed

[Bohandas]

Serious question. I haven't read the books for decades but I don't remember Sauron doing anything that a normal warlord wouldn't do

Isn't that, on its own, enough to make him evil?

[The Jack]

The Dunlendings were unjustly screwed over by Gondor giving land to the violent strawheads, and any attempt of peaceful resolution (diplomatic marriage) was overturned.
Try to tell me the goblins aren't a screwed over people. Yes, the western people think of them as vile and evil, but could that not be a matter of the kind of prejudice that reinforces the stereotype? Goblins are species so reviled that it's morally right to slaughter them; I think monstrous retaliation to that kind of treatment is only appropriate.

Harad, Khand, Rhun, The Corsairs...
Together, these human factions are larger than those people of gondor/Arnor, and yet they follow sauron? If we go by Tolkien, Only the western people are clean because they rejected the 'lies' that the east swallowed up. The Majority of middle earth swallowed these 'lies', and whilst I can believe that the majority of the continent will follow the wrong ideals, I don't get the sense that the westerners are definitely following the right ideals. Us readers know so little about Khand or Harad, and everything we get is filtered through subjective viewpoints. Isn't it amazing that Sauron could get these humans to fight alongside Orcs? What kind of progressive and accepting mentality do you need to fight alongside Orcs?!?


Tolkien's a dude who's all about a glorious imagined past. He hates the future. Everything bad in the Hobbit/Lord of the rings is caused when people turn away from the old ways and tradition, and everything is solved when society returns to the old ways (The dwarves return home, the dead men make up for ancient promises, the stewards and merchants are replaced by kings...)

{Scrubbed}

Saruman and Sauron are monsters because they industrialise into the future; Saurman makes gunpowder, munition armour and cuts down trees, Sauron turns mordor into a 'toxic wasteland' because he builds machines. Tolkien is just a massive latecomer to that wave of industrial-revolution crybabies who freaked out that factories caused pollution and allowed the lower classes affordable goods (seriously, go read Ruskin; The guy's genuinely upset that elite and expensive craftsmanship is being challenged by affordable mass produced goods, and Tolkien certainly follows that line of thought when it comes to Dwarves making good and wholesome products, Goblins only make monstrosities. Thing is; the writings of people like Ruskin or Dickens are a hundred years before Tolkein's main works: Tolkien Is late to the zeitgeist)

[Fyraltari]

Eriagon, conquered and its inhabitants driven out. Yep that's what warlords do. Eriador doesn't seem to have been conquered by Sauron. The Ent Wives vanished but I don't recall anybody saying it was Sauron's doing

Eregion is still deseretd several millenia after Sauron's armies rode in. He didn't conquer the land he broke it. Sauron fought in Eriador in the War of Sauron and the Elves (he would have won if not for the Dùnedains timely intervention) and the Witch-King conquered Arnor's successors kingdoms there too. The reamins are still in the late Third Age mostly inhabited because they're full of monsters and wights.

Speaking of the Mouth of Sauron I remember the offer he makes to Arragon being very reasonable and would have brought an end to the conflict without any more bloodshed

The Mouth asked for:
-The land East of Anduin who was recently taken back by Gondor to be given in perpetuity.
-The Gondorrim and Rohirrim to swear off ever fighting Sauron and to be forbidden to carry weapons.
-Isengard (and therefore control over the gap of Rohan) to be given over to Sauron (despite it being Gondorrim territory that Mordor never controlled) and rebuilt by Gondor.

All of that in exchange for one prisoner.

This isn't a reasonnable offer in the slightest.

[comicshorse]

Isn't that, on its own, enough to make him evil?

Well yes. Indeed I was going to say that given the chance to have mind controlled armies most warlords would jump at the chance but realized that didn't make it not evil.
I suppose I was really looking for examples of him being so uncompromisingly evil that the Fellowship are right to reject the Mouth of Sauron's offer as coming from Sauron it will be just a trick to soften them up for future bloodhsed and conquest. Superhumanly evil if you will

Posted by The Jack

Harad, Khand, Rhun, The Corsairs...
Together, these human factions are larger than those people of gondor/Arnor, and yet they follow sauron? If we go by Tolkien, Only the western people are clean because they rejected the 'lies' that the east swallowed up. The Majority of middle earth swallowed these 'lies', and whilst I can believe that the majority of the continent will follow the wrong ideals, I don't get the sense that the westerners are definitely following the right ideals. Us readers know so little about Khand or Harad, and everything we get is filtered through subjective viewpoints. Isn't it amazing that Sauron could get these humans to fight alongside Orcs? What kind of progressive and accepting mentality do you need to fight alongside Orcs?!?

Also in the final battle after the Orcs flee don't the Eastern Kings refuse to flee and die valiantly. A move that is marked as being both brave and honourable by the Western armies

The Mouth asked for:
-The land East of Anduin who was recently taken back by Gondor to be given in perpetuity.
-The Gondorrim and Rohirrim to swear off ever fighting Sauron and to be forbidden to carry weapons.
-Isengard (and therefore control over the gap of Rohan) to be given over to Sauron (despite it being Gondorrim territory that Mordor never controlled) and rebuilt by Gondor.

All of that in exchange for one prisoner.

This isn't a reasonnable offer in the slightest.

Considering that, One Ring aside, he outnumbers the Western armies so ridiculously he could crush them, there and now. Then simply walk in and take that and, quite literally, everything else in the world. Then yes its a very good deal for the West. Damn generous really

Eregion is still deseretd several millenia after Sauron's armies rode in. He didn't conquer the land he broke it.

So Sauron is responsible for the Elves not returning to their old lands because....... he was there once ? Not because the Elves are leaving Middle Earth in droves and haven't the people to repopulate it ? Because he 'broke the land' ? Strange how none of the Eastern Kingdoms are broken. That is really sounding like propaganda

The reamins are still in the late Third Age mostly inhabited because they're full of monsters and wights.

I presume you mean uninhabitated here. And again why is the monsters occupying war ravaged land blame on Sauron and not the other sides who fought there

[Fyraltari]

{Scrubbed}

[Tvtyrant]

Well yes. Indeed I was going to say that given the chance to have mind controlled armies most warlords would jump at the chance but realized that didn't make it not evil.
I suppose I was really looking for examples of him being so uncompromisingly evil that the Fellowship are right to reject the Mouth of Sauron's offer as coming from Sauron it will be just a trick to soften them up for future bloodhsed and conquest. Superhumanly evil if you will

Posted by The Jack


Also in the final battle after the Orcs flee don't the Eastern Kings refuse to flee and die valiantly. A move that is marked as being both brave and honourable by the Western armies




Considering that, One Ring aside, he outnumbers the Western armies so ridiculously he could crush them, there and now. Then simply walk in and take that and, quite literally, everything else in the world. Then yes its a very good deal for the West. Damn generous really




So Sauron is responsible for the Elves not returning to their old lands because....... he was there once ? Not because the Elves are leaving Middle Earth in droves and haven't the people to repopulate it ? Because he 'broke the land' ? Strange how none of the Eastern Kingdoms are broken. That is really sounding like propaganda



I presume you mean uninhabitated here. And again why is the monsters occupying war ravaged land blame on Sauron and not the other sides who fought there

Sauron breeds and uses monsters and undead, those aren't incidental they are bioweapons left behind.

Sauron is essentially that guy who drops gas weapons on an area if he can't have it. Giant spiders, trolls and wights are his version of poisoning the whole area and leaving it polluted.

[Fyraltari]

Also in the final battle after the Orcs flee don't the Eastern Kings refuse to flee and die valiantly. A move that is marked as being both brave and honourable by the Western armies.

That is correct (well I think it was at Pelennor fields not Morannon, don't remeber Easterlings there).

Considering that, One Ring aside, he outnumbers the Western armies so ridiculously he could crush them, there and now. Then simply walk in and take that and, quite literally, everything else in the world. Then yes its a very good deal for the West. Damn generous really.

You are forgetting that:
-Sauron thinks they have the Ring.
-They are in this situaton because Sauron tried just conquering and it didn't work. He even lost his immortal general.
-He is asking them to demiltarize and have them swear not to attack him while making no such promise himself; Dude fought them for millenia but he 's just going to be satisfied with Isengard and Ithilien? These aren't terms that's a delayed surrender.
-Sauron never uphold a promise in his life. Ask Celembrimbor, Gorlim, Ar-Pharazôn and anyone he ever gave a Ring to. why would anyone believe any word out of his Mouth?

So Sauron is responsible for the Elves not returning to their old lands because....... he was there once ? Not because the Elves are leaving Middle Earth in droves and haven't the people to repopulate it ? Because he 'broke the land' ? Strange how none of the Eastern Kingdoms are broken. That is really sounding like propaganda

When Sauron conquered Eregion he ordered Celebrimbor to give him the Rings of Power he had. Celembrimbor refused to tell where he had hidden the three even under torture. In response Sauron ordered Eregion scorched. That's why it's destroyed because Sauron and his army set the whole place on fire. The Elves of Eregion who escaped fled to Lothlorien and Rivendell. They could have resettled. They didn't. Men could have resettled (I mean do you really think people are going to just not settle exploitable land) they didn't.

I presume you mean uninhabitated here. And again why is the monsters occupying war ravaged land blame on Sauron and not the other sides who fought there

I did, thank you.
The barrow-wights are creation of Sauron. He is called the Necromancer for a reason you know. The even respond to the Nazgul's presence in Fellowship. So those at least he is responsble for. As for the Trolls, Wargs and Orcs... Do you really think the Dunedains or the Elves would be the ones to bring them there?

[Traab]

Didnt melkor create the orcs by torturing and twisting captive elves into monstrous abominations? Found the quote.

"But of those unhappy ones who were ensnared by Melkor little is known of a certainty. For who of the living has descended into the pits of Utumno, or has explored the darkness of the counsels of Melkor? Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes."

That being said, it looks like the actual creation of the orcs is a huge mishmash of conflicting stories that tolkien never got around to codifying before he died. There are a lot of varying versions depending on when he wrote them. But that is at least a quote from the silmarillion. Another quote,

According to the oldest "theory" proposed by J.R.R. Tolkien (found in The Fall of Gondolin, from The Book of Lost Tales, circa 1917—the first tale of Middle-earth to be written in full), Orcs were made of slime through the sorcery of Morgoth: "bred from the heats and slimes of the earth".[33]

However, it is consistently stated in Tolkien's other writings, with regard to his creation myth, that only Eru Ilúvatar (God) can create new life from nothing. Therefore, by whatever means the orcs came into being, it is certain that either they were "descended" from other beings or a deliberate manifestation of Ilúvatar's thought.

So ymmv. On the other hand, this very set of discrepancies helps mold the school of thought that its all propaganda garbage written by the victors of the war between two sides. With the winners of course declaring they are the wise virtuous and amazing light side while those other guys were total monsters born of slime and muck and torment.

As for bad stuff sauron did, someone said, "What did he do different from other warlords?" Well first off, isnt that enough? He was out to conquer the world and used trickery, magic, and force of arms to subjugate and destroy everything he could. He didnt just defeat his enemies, he enslaved or outright genocided them. Everywhere he went he not only slaughtered unmercifully, he basically sowed the earth with salt. He enslaved through trickery many of the kings of men, his rings twisted the dwarves to an extent from what i recall as well. His forces were canibalistic monsters that reveled in death and torture, just as eager to kill each other as the enemy, and only their fear of sauron kept them in line. But again, all this is only known through the history books written by the side that won. This isnt saurons autobiography, this is the history of the world as told by the elves and dwarves and men who were almost always enemies of sauron.

[Fyraltari]

Didnt melkor create the orcs by torturing and twisting captive elves into monstrous abominations? Found the quote.

That being said, it looks like the actual creation of the orcs is a huge mishmash of conflicting stories that tolkien never got around to codifying before he died. There are a lot of varying versions depending on when he wrote them. But that is at least a quote from the silmarillion. Another quote,

So ymmv. On the other hand, this very set of discrepancies helps mold the school of thought that its all propaganda garbage written by the victors of the war between two sides. With the winners of course declaring they are the wise virtuous and amazing light side while those other guys were total monsters born of slime and muck and torment.

Or, you know conflicting stories s how mythology works, and creating a mythology to go with his conlangs was Tolkien's goal there. If the Silmarillon amed at making the Elves and Men look good, why doesn't it do so? Since the Kinslaying and Tùrin's legend certainly don't make them look good.

As for bad stuff sauron did, someone said, "What did he do different from other warlords?" Well first off, isnt that enough? He was out to conquer the world and used trickery, magic, and force of arms to subjugate and destroy everything he could. He didnt just defeat his enemies, he enslaved or outright genocided them. Everywhere he went he not only slaughtered unmercifully, he basically sowed the earth with salt. He enslaved through trickery many of the kings of men, his rings twisted the dwarves to an extent from what i recall as well. His forces were canibalistic monsters that reveled in death and torture, just as eager to kill each other as the enemy, and only their fear of sauron kept them in line.

Orcs have a strong taboo against cannibalism, actually. Though they definitely eat humans they are deeply insulted by the notion that they would eat Orc-flesh.

[Bohandas]

furthermore, Sauron was also the minion of Morgoth, whose whole thing was that he wanted to plunge the world into eternal darkness

[LibraryOgre]

Sauron/Saruman were progressive visionaries trying to better middle earth, but are made to appear evil when filtered through the regressive lenses of Tolkien.

I present Jacqueline Carey's Sundering Duology, Banewreaker and Godslayer, which is very much the Lord of the Rings, but from the point of view of the Witch-King of Angmar.

[The Jack]

furthermore, Sauron was also the minion of Morgoth, whose whole thing was that he wanted to plunge the world into eternal darkness

Yeah but dude that's propaganda and lies.

Can you imagine the sales pitch of sauron/melkor/whoever if he'd actually said 'yes, I want to wipe out everything after enslaving it, help me wipe out everything. In the end, there'll be nothing left'

Even if they lied their pants off, even the orcs would eventually go 'maybe not', as even orcs like their food.


I'd love to go into morgoth, but I think that has too many parallels to real world religion. (More to the point; I haven't read the simarillion)
Suffice to say the dude introduced the concept of freedom into the world. What a monotonous obedient society there would've been without him.


Tolky deserves credit for making such a detailed world, but it's so... wrong, that the best way to view it is to use your own imagination.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah but dude that's propaganda and lies.

Can you imagine the sales pitch of sauron/melkor/whoever if he'd actually said 'yes, I want to wipe out everything after enslaving it, help me wipe out everything. In the end, there'll be nothing left'

Even if they lied their pants off, even the orcs would eventually go 'maybe not', as even orcs like their food.

It's almost as f nobody is asking them what they think. Or telling them anything really, beyond "go there and kill that".

Oh nad the orcs hated Morgoth, by the way.

I'd love to go into morgoth, but I think that has too many parallels to real world religion. (More to the point; I haven't read the simarillion)

{Scrubbed}

Suffice to say the dude introduced the concept of freedom into the world. What a monotonous obedient society there would've been without him.

Ah yes 'cause the Valar never did anything freely. Oh look, it's Aulë making the Dwarves!

Tolky deserves credit for making such a detailed world, but it's so... wrong, that the best way to view it is to use your own imagination.

Only if you choose to view it as "wrong".

[Raimun]

The new Star Wars-trilogy is set in the same galaxy but doesn't actually have anything to do with previous two trilogies. Let me explain:

- The galaxy is a big place. The new Star Wars-trilogy happens at the very "western" fringes of the galaxy. That is why all action is set on planets that no moviegoer has ever heard of.
- Hosnian was the hub of the New Republic there. It's not very well known in the galactic core.
- After 30 years, the big names who took part in the rebellion have become almost legendary. That is why one general of an independent para-military army/fleet calls herself "Leia". The name itself is threatening. Some random old smuggler calls himself "Han Solo" for a similar reason. When asked, a random hermit stranded in a random feral world agreed for some random reason that he was indeed "Luke Skywalker", even though he clearly isn't.
- Kylo Ren is insane, obsessed with old stories and out of touch with the reality. He had never met the old random smuggler before but killed him anyway. He also ordered a bunch of walkers to fire empty ground and then had one of his trademark insane tantrums at the middle of said ground.
- Old artefacts such a "Skywalker lightsaber" and "Vader's helmet" are replicas. Both Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader were galaxy known icons. Surely at least a few jedis modeled their lightsabers after Anakin's: not only was he famous, his lightsaber must have been of high quality because of his technical know-how. "Vader's mask" was originally some kind of imperial made bust of their famous warleader that sat in the office of some random imperial officer. Some junk dealer eventually sawed off the "neck" of the bust.
- Snoke is indeed just some guy. A dark jedi on par with Jerec. Palpatine is still more powerful than both of them combined.
- There a lot of protocol-droids and R2-units.
- The new Republic probably does something about this whole mess in due time. Right now, they have their hands full with bigger problems.

That's the only reason any of this makes any sense. Normally, I don't do head canon but for some reason I though it would fitting for the most expensive Star Wars-fan fiction movies ever made.

[The Jack]

It's amazing how stretched people'll go to work with the sequel trillogy. I was only a kid when the phantom menace hit, but I'm sure the 'ruined star wars' then was a shadow of the 'ruined star wars' now.

My headcannon, is that the new Star Wars films had divisive elements in them to rile up certain groups of people to swing... we'll not get into that, and everyone's a bunch of suckers for getting baited by obvious bait.

I thought the film was bad, but strong female characters didn't trigger me. Everyone being hit by the idiot stick triggered me (also that hyperspace ram. That triggers me as something that 'breaks' star wars)