Relationship Woes And Advice, Part Two (Read First Post)

[sktarq]

Ah...self blindness....Know the feeling...annoying...What's even funnier is that I generally know know with a remarkable degree of accuracy if someone likes/is flirting with any of my friends or visa versa....We have worked out a system for this; simple comunication. If I am anywhere near my friends they will wink at me... or I will smile at them...supposedly I have an expressive face...It works well when we are in a group...other than that I have a flirty enough personality anyway to flirt back and pass it off as a joke if it is not returned on the slightest possibility of a come on. Pity this is almost all based on tonal changes, eye search patterns, smells, facial cues, and hand/foot tension signals and thus totally useless on the web.

[Koga]

I think I may have found someone to replace the gapping hole Amaya left.

I should probably stop referring to her to my friends as "the nazi bitch" lol! But she is a nazi! XD

And this really isn't a relationship problem as a side-effect problem.



Why won't Amaya's new boyfriend leave me the hell alone?!

I don't care about him or stupid Amaya! Amaya betrayed my trust and he took away the only that matterd to me. What could they possibly want?! Why do they gotta keep bothering me?!


But everytime I come onto a girl, Bryan's gotta his two cents in and somehow or someway gain access to her and tell her about what'a horrible person I am who's only thought his own personal sastisfcation boohoohoo!


And then we argue it's.. just.. wrong.. XD

Bryan: I want to run you over with my car!
Brian: You mean your van, cause that's what you used to lure Amaya with along with a bag of candy!



Yes, Amaya dumped me for a just as old, peverted, geezer-bastard, with the same name as me except with a letter that's neither a vowel nor a consonnant. Cause he's lame like that!



If I knew how to make youtubes I wouldn't make these angst rants and just let out my feelings on youtube. Probably make one of Freddy vs Jason "What I've Done".


And not say who was suppose to be who.

[Syka]

Yah, the guy I was/am dating had that problem. 8 months after him and his ex broke up (this was back in...February I think), he gets texts from her new boy saying how he's going to kick his *** and all. And meanwhile, my guy is going, "What in the world? I don't even know this kid, he's like 18." I personally thought the girl was stupid to give her new boyfriend her ex's number. I'd be pissed. I would never do that.

So I'd just tell the other guy to back off. He's got no right to be talking about that to girls (unless the girls are his friends, in which case he has every right to try and protect them).

As for flirting, I'm clueless unless someone hits me over the head with the ClueBrick. Until, recently it seems, actually. I've found that when guys start telling you they like you, you pick up on the signals so as to ward of potential unwanted suitors. Plus I'm a nice person, so a lot of what I do could be considered flirting when it isn't.

Cheers,
Syka

[Hell Puppi]

Bryan: I want to run you over with my car!
Brian: You mean your van, cause that's what you used to lure Amaya with along with a bag of candy!

I have to use the line on someone, or my life will not be complete XD

[Xykon_Fan]

Ummm...first off...can you write in coherent sentences, please? Put it in word, and don't stop until everything but the names don't have the red and green lines underneath. Seriously, Koga, you should know better.

Second, why are you in contact with Amaya or her new boyfriend? If she truly hurt you, and if he truly hurt you, like you say, shouldn't you just cease contact? Tell them (nicely), that seeing her with him is just too hard for you, and that there are too many feelings about them together for you to be happy around them. It's true (as evidenced by your post), and it will fix your problem.

[Pyrian]

Am I a bad person if I admit that hearing of Koga getting his all-too-just desserts warms my cold and bitter heart?

I have the other problem....I don't know when I'm the one flirting. Or other people think that's what I'm doing but I'm just being nice.

I don't know you and I don't know how you act, but I've had girls "unintentionally" flirt with me and it drives me bonkers, so I'll float some behaviors that have caught my attention and maybe we can tease out whether you're accidentally coming on to people or they're just thinking wishfully.

Do you...

- Catch their eye, then smile broadly, blush, and look down/away? (BTW, this non-verbal is so instantly expressive that if you're too shy to directly tell someone you like them it's a pretty good affectation to deliberately develop.)
- Pick them out of a crowd of people you know to talk to first?
- Give them your complete attention in a group of people you also know?
- Touch them lightly in normal conversation?
- Do your eyes widen subtly when you look at them?
- When/if you hug them, do you turn your head towards them, kiss them on the cheek, and/or press your breasts firmly against them?

- All of the above?

All of these can be friendly behaviors, but any of them individually or especially the whole set can be taken as a not-that-subtle come-on.

[Logic]

Am I a bad person if I admit that hearing of Koga getting his all-too-just desserts warms my cold and bitter heart?



I don't know you and I don't know how you act, but I've had girls "unintentionally" flirt with me and it drives me bonkers, so I'll float some behaviors that have caught my attention and maybe we can tease out whether you're accidentally coming on to people or they're just thinking wishfully.

Do you...

- Catch their eye, then smile broadly, blush, and look down/away? (BTW, this non-verbal is so instantly expressive that if you're too shy to directly tell someone you like them it's a pretty good affectation to deliberately develop.)
- Pick them out of a crowd of people you know to talk to first?
- Give them your complete attention in a group of people you also know?
- Touch them lightly in normal conversation?
- Do your eyes widen subtly when you look at them?
- When/if you hug them, do you turn your head towards them, kiss them on the cheek, and/or press your breasts firmly against them?

- All of the above?

All of these can be friendly behaviors, but any of them individually or especially the whole set can be taken as a not-that-subtle come-on.

Wow. If this is the minimum for flirting, I have only been flirted with, like 6 times tops. I guess I haven't missed as many as I thought I had...

[FdL]

I consider myself to be quite intelligent - I like to think I'm observant and can tell what's going on with people - but when it comes to relationships, I cannot tell if someone is flirting with me. I think that I may have missed countless opportunities due to this "blindness", but then again, I can't really say for sure, because it might just have been people being moderately nice to me.

Spoiler

Show

In the past, the only time I worked out the girl was flirting with me, I was flat on my back...

Yeah, you get a whole different perspective from there

What do you think I should do? Look for different clues? Hang a sign around my neck?

'Tis a puzzle, for me at least...

'Tis, indeed. It's really difficult for me to tell most of the time. I think it's related to the fact that I usually don't think that it's possible that a girl is into me. There are times when I seem to subconsciusly ignore signals because I don't like the girl (ie, play dumb).

We have this new girl at the office. She used to work in the same building. And I must confess I kinda looked at her and made eye contact and generally flirted with her at some point. Ages ago, like 5 years back.
Then the other day we're alone in the office and it was my first day after vacation, so we were kinda making conversation to introduce ourselves. Then she comes with a comment meaning something like "yeah, I noticed you, and the other girls in the office kept telling me to talk to you or something, but I was very shy" I took the "was" to be a key word in her speech. So I changed subject politely. Don't know where that's headed, but I no longer like her really, I got out of flirting frequency with her ages ago. Plus I've learned some things about her that I don't like at all. So I'll be playing dumb, if I'm reading her correctly.

I have to use the line on someone, or my life will not be complete XD

Which one of the two you quoted? 'Cause you know, the second one is not that bad either. :p

-----------------------------------------------

@Pyrian's flirting signs:

In general, getting attention from someone is a sign (duh).

Eye contact is probably the most expressive clue. The game of eyes meeting, hiding, searching...A lot can be found there. But if you don't know the other person and her gestures and the general way in which she behaves, you might misinterpret her.

In conversation you generally can get a lot of clues. Well, first she's talking to you, that's a good start (let's try to build self-esteem from the bottom up, I'm with you there :p). Then she may laugh at your jokes. Most of them, even the not so funny ones. That's a good way to try, really :)
Then you can tell when she asks about you, and when she listens to your replies looking like she's interested. If you're talking about boring things, or hm....if you're a gamer and she's not, for example, and she listens looking very interested, well that's a good sign.

Then physical contact is a dead giveaway. Definitely a breast hug is (that sounded weird). The same with abundance of kisses as salutations (here in Argentina it's common and you do it with everyone, but you can still tell). But also more frequent is those little touches in conversation, where she might touch your arm to get your attention while she talks or to stress what she's saying...Any kind of physical contact is a good sign because people usually don't do it with people they don't like...

[Cyrano]

Wow. If this is the minimum for flirting, I have only been flirted with, like 6 times tops. I guess I haven't missed as many as I thought I had...

Those are flirting equivalent of a shouted "MAKE OUT WITH ME YOU SON OF A" in a football stadium. No game.

Otherwise, you're looking at subtle conversation, mostly.

[Hell Puppi]

Flirting is a weird thing. there are people who flirt with everyone, rather unintentionally, because it's in their personality (damn you friends with social competence!), and then there's people like me who have no idea how to, and it would take someone either asking to kiss me or just kissing me to realize "Oh, hey, you find me attractive!" (well, blurting it out works, too).
Flirting is one of those silly things. It's different for everyone. That's why it's important to get comfortable with someone, then ask how they feel about you, otherwise you just may end up flirting and letting a chance go by.

[Cyrano]

Unfortunately, my flirting is roughly the same as my talking with anyone. Shy, halting speak and a complete lack of understanding of how normal human beings speak comfortably.
I'm bad at the social graces.

[Logic]

Those are flirting equivalent of a shouted "MAKE OUT WITH ME YOU SON OF A" in a football stadium. No game.

Otherwise, you're looking at subtle conversation, mostly.

Well, the "Cluebrick" hasn't hit me yet, but I also successfully made my reflex save vs the ugly stick.

[FdL]

True, Puppi, it's different for everyone and it has to do with personality.

I consider myself to be shy, but I can tell when I'm flirting with someone, it comes out naturally when I'm with someone I like (or from who I get flirty feedback, sometimes it works on its own I guess).

Well, the thing is that I think I'm good at flirting, but it usually doesn't go beyond that. So I end up having to make things more explicit...Because you know how things work in the realm of the ambiguous, until you make things clear and unequivocal it's really up to you how do you interpret them.

Flirting is fun when it's casual, but it can be frustrating when you try to use it as a means of communication (and you are not getting any feedback).

[Serpentine]

I have wondered something...and I'll ask all the girls here...I'm going to be going to college soon, and the campus is 2/3 girls, 1/3 guys, and me ( ). So, my question is, given the fact that, with literally "Two girls for every boy," I'll probably end up with someone but I'm a little unsure: Would knowing that a guy had never even held hands with a girl, much less kissed one, make you more/less/same about dating him?

It can be a very good thing, at least once you get down to the truly physical side of things (probably before, too): if she's new at it all as well, it means you can learn about it all together. You'll fumble and giggle and mess up, but you'll be doing it all together, and you won't have to feel embarrassed at your incompetence because, well, you'll both be just as incompetent as each other (of course, one being a little more experienced than the other isn't a bad thing, either - that one can guide and stuff).
As for just dating... well, there might be a bit of a "hmmm, never done anything = undesirable?" subconscious thing, but I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. Anyway, it's not as though you're gonna be running around with your shirt of howling "Wooooooo I'm an everything virgin! Yeah!" ...is it?

Regarding flirtation: I am the flirt queen! ^_^
>.>
Yeah, I think the problem with me would be figuring out just how serious I am about it. It's kinda a passtime for me... not that I get that many opportunities to employ it. I mean, there's making Conrad Poohs uncomfortable, but there's no sport in that.

[Thrawn183]

There's nothing wrong with inexperience as long as you try and learn as you go rather than just kind of fumble for weeks on end. Its funny and even endearing in the beginning, so you've got some breathing room. But there is definitely a point where you have to put up or shut up to show that you've been paying attention to your S.O. and what they like.

As for women who flirt? Wow, have I met some offenders. In fact, just today, a friend of mine complained about how guys hit on her at clubs after spending 2-3 minutes detailing how crazy she gets and what kind of (IMHO) inapproprate things she does. Its like some people don't make the connection that people will treat you in a manner that is a reflection of how they see you act. *Throws hands in air* I brought up the above, and she flat out refused to accept that she was in any way responsible.

[Koga]

Descisions Descisions. (And actually I cut Amaya out of my life but she won't leave me the hell alone)

I got Terra who is super hot nazi-Satan chick!

Kelli who's a friend of mine's little sister and is so sweet and niave..

Another Kelli who actually thinks i'm funny and smart!


I should start making girlfriend baseball cards..

[Syka]

...so you are dating all those chicks?

If so, I'm sorry, but I can't help you. I at least tried before, now I'm not even going to.

Cheers,
Syka

[Xykon_Fan]

Dude...don't play these girls...we told you this last time too...

Furthermore, have you actually asked both Amaya and her BF to leave you alone? If you didn't say it directly and nicely don't expect them to.

[Dragonrider]

Yeah, I was just lying on my bed thinking about the flirting thing, and on my level anyway, it's not very "out there"...largely because I'm pretty shy most of the time. I think part of it is that talking in social situations is embarrassing for me, so when I do talk I get very sarcastic and I'm not very serious. I guess it's my way of handling stress. But anyway, although I'm not one of those people who can't do anything right around guys, the tendency does get slightly worse.

But here's the kicker. If you're interested in someone, EVERYTHING they do (and you feel you're doing) can be interpreted as, if not flirtatious, at least a sign of interest. If you meet their eyes; if you avoid their eyes; if you talk to them specifically; if you don't even though they're right there; if you sit next to them; if there are two chairs open and you take the one NOT next to them; if you are too nice; if you make fun of them; if you touch them; if you avoid physical contact at all costs....

I guess it just makes you oversensative. My mom says girls have a tendency to overanalyze every little detail of every conversation and situation, and it is unfortunately true.

[Cyrano]

Descisions Descisions. (And actually I cut Amaya out of my life but she won't leave me the hell alone)

I got Terra who is super hot nazi-Satan chick!

Kelli who's a friend of mine's little sister and is so sweet and niave..

Another Kelli who actually thinks i'm funny and smart!


I should start making girlfriend baseball cards..

I wouldn't be surprised if none of these girls wants to date you. Mostly because if someone came up to me, and I knew that he/she was picking me out of a lineup reminiscent of horse races and debating the existance of "girlfriend baseball cards", I would slap him. Please, pleasepleaseplease, stop referring to living, breathing people like that. It disconcerts me.

[Pyrian]

If you're interested in someone, EVERYTHING they do (and you feel you're doing) can be interpreted as, if not flirtatious, at least a sign of interest.

Absolutely true. That's what I meant by wishful thinking! That's kind of why I wanted to get a better idea of what's going on before rendering any sort of judgment. Seriously, if you don't think you're flirting and others do, how can I - sitting behind this otherwise very nice widescreen monitor - possibly guess where the breakdown in communication lies? If I saw the interactions personally I could probably say something very specific.

[Holy_Knight]

...I'm a way? I didn't know there was anything to fix I didn't mean to suggest that I don't aim to have good relationships or anything like that. In fact, I'm quite proud of the one I have right now - lots of communication, silliness, love, and geekiness. At risk of worrying him (though he never comes out of Gaming anyway), I must admit I'm starting to feel a bit... itchy for singledom lately, I still love him and everything. It's sort of... I could see myself living out my days with him, but before that, I want to see what other relationships are like, good and bad, experience different ways of getting together, what it's like being together with other people, etc etc. Is that bad?

No. Not at all. It's actually a really good idea to take time, date quite a few people, learn, grow, find out what you really want. A lot of times when you marry the first person you date, you eventually realize that you haven't experienced anything else and begin to wonder 'what if' and think that things aren't as good as they could be because you have nothing to compare them to. Having experiences isn't a bad thing at all. I think the point that both I and HK were trying to say, is that the way your post sounded, it sounded like you were going into relationships knowing before they start that they won't last, which is a good way to doom yourself from the start, or that you don't expect to find someone that makes you happy, and will end up settling. Neither point of which I think you actually meant. So I'm sorry if I read things wrong and into your post that weren't there.

Yes, I think Alarra put it very well--thank you, Alarra. That's what we were getting at. (Some of what you said also reminded me of a friend of mine. His mother ran out on him when he was only about 2 years old, and because of that, he told me that he didn't really expect to ever have a lasting relationship. It's sad, and I just hope that your own views aren't colored in the same way as his.)

As for your question, it sounds to me like you care about your current boyfriend, but you aren't sure whether ultimately he's really right for you. And like Alarra said, no, there's nothing wrong with that, and it's probably natural to feel that way. The important thing is just to be honest about it, both with him and with yourself.

On asking someone out:

Have a plan in mind. Don't just ask them if they want to do something, be specific. Will you go to the "Weird Al Yankovich" concert with me next Friday?" is much better than "Will you go out with me?"

When you ask a girl out give her a planned activity and time. Even if she may not have pick that particular activity on her own she may go because she wants to spend time with you. If she says no you can ask her to clarify if it is the activity or the idea of spending time with you that she opposes.

I tend to agree, although sometimes it depends. Sometimes, by asking something more general like "Would you like to go out sometime?" first, it allows her to say initially whether she is interested, is single in the first place (if you don't know), and so on. If she responds positively, then you can ask something more specific, which I agree you should have ready ahead of time.

Try to plan it a week in advance. I was never this aggressive, but I have learned that some girls think it will mar their character if they are available on short notice. So if you ask the night before they may say no even if they are available on the principle of the "attractive girls already have a date by Thursday." However, it is a good sign if she tries to schedule with you for the next week.

Heh, this sounds suspiciously similar to "The Rules", which is a rather disturbing manifesto if you've ever looked at it. But yeah, it's a good idea to plan in advance anyway, just because short notice is less considerate and harder for people to work with anyway.

(By the way, I did attend the "Weird Al" concert with a guy whom I liked and I would never have gone, or heard about it, if he hadn't asked me)

So you got to go out with a guy you liked, and see Weird Al in concert? You really won big on that one!

I think I would bring intense amounts of pain to any psychic that was around me. I usually have no less than 2 sides of my brain arguing at once.

Well, yeah, obviously. I mean, if you had just one side of your brain arguing, you'd be crazy.

As for the physical aspect, well, I'm probably the only 16-year-old in the country who hasn't had any experience in that area yet.

Nah, you're not as alone as you think, Dragonrider. I'm older now, but when I was 16, I hadn't had any physical experience either. I didn't have my first kiss until I was 19, and nothing beyond that until I was 22.

I consider myself to be quite intelligent - I like to think I'm observant and can tell what's going on with people - but when it comes to relationships, I cannot tell if someone is flirting with me. I think that I may have missed countless opportunities due to this "blindness", but then again, I can't really say for sure, because it might just have been people being moderately nice to me.

Yeah, I have that same problem. Occasionally I've had flashes of insight, and I'm a little better than I used to be, but in general I'm fairly oblivious to that sort of thing. So, um... solidarity, brother. Or something.

I have the other problem....I don't know when I'm the one flirting. Or other people think that's what I'm doing but I'm just being nice.

I have that problem too! One time in college, I was talking to a female friend, and I said "Hey, have you seen my kangaroo?" No sooner are the words out of my mouth than she's laughing and saying "What?", and her friend laughs and goes "What kind of a line is that?!" But it wasn't a line... my sister had given me this stuffed kangaroo that made music and hopped around for Christmas, and it was kind of funny, so I just wondered if I'd shown it to her. In the end we got it straightened out, and I did show her the kangaroo, which she agreed was fun to watch.

Now that I think about it, here's a similar story, although I was flirting at the time, just not in the way that the girl thought. When I first met my ex-girlfriend, we were conversing by writing notes to each other during a presentation on campus. During that conversation, we had the following exchange:

Her: "I miss elementary school, because when someone had a birthday they would bring cupcakes to share with everyone."

Me: "My birthday is next Tuesday--I could give you a cupcake."

She seemed really confused by this at first, and took a while before she responded. Later she told me that she had thought and thought as hard as she could to figure out what "giving someone a cupcake" was innuendo for. Finally, she decided that I really was just talking about cupcakes (which was true).

@^: This is Giantitp. We're not "the Internet"...we're....Giantitp.

Well said.

Am I a bad person if I admit that hearing of Koga getting his all-too-just desserts warms my cold and bitter heart?



I don't know you and I don't know how you act, but I've had girls "unintentionally" flirt with me and it drives me bonkers, so I'll float some behaviors that have caught my attention and maybe we can tease out whether you're accidentally coming on to people or they're just thinking wishfully.

Do you...

- Catch their eye, then smile broadly, blush, and look down/away? (BTW, this non-verbal is so instantly expressive that if you're too shy to directly tell someone you like them it's a pretty good affectation to deliberately develop.)
- Pick them out of a crowd of people you know to talk to first?
- Give them your complete attention in a group of people you also know?
- Touch them lightly in normal conversation?
- Do your eyes widen subtly when you look at them?
- When/if you hug them, do you turn your head towards them, kiss them on the cheek, and/or press your breasts firmly against them?

Okay, as an admittedly oblivious person, I still have to say that I fail to see how anyone could interpret this one as anything but obviously flirting. I mean, come on.

Flirting is a weird thing. there are people who flirt with everyone, rather unintentionally, because it's in their personality (damn you friends with social competence!), and then there's people like me who have no idea how to, and it would take someone either asking to kiss me or just kissing me to realize "Oh, hey, you find me attractive!" (well, blurting it out works, too).
Flirting is one of those silly things. It's different for everyone. That's why it's important to get comfortable with someone, then ask how they feel about you, otherwise you just may end up flirting and letting a chance go by.

Yep. That's me, too. Although there was at least one case where the girl made it so blatantly obvious that even I had no trouble telling what was going on (probably because she knew me well enough to know that that's what it would take.) Unfortunately, I knew that it would be a bad idea for me to go out with her, and the whole situation was further complicated by the fact that (a) She was really good at it; (b) she was really physically attractive; and (c) a large part of me really did want to date her. It took all my skill, cunning, and willpower to escape her amorous advances.

(Yeah, I know, poor me, right? But honestly, dating her would have been bad. It was a worse problem than it sounds like.)

Regarding flirtation: I am the flirt queen! ^_^
>.>

Well in that case, given how many people on this thread have said they have trouble with it... you should start giving lessons!

[Hell Puppi]

Well, yeah, obviously. I mean, if you had just one side of your brain arguing, you'd be crazy.

The problem is it's NO LESS, than 2, and each voice has it's own distinct personality...yeah I'm gonna stop there....

[Dragonrider]

Nah, you're not as alone as you think, Dragonrider. I'm older now, but when I was 16, I hadn't had any physical experience either. I didn't have my first kiss until I was 19, and nothing beyond that until I was 22.

Yeah, it doesn't actually bother me much....relationships (and life in general) are complicated enough as it is....and anyway, I wouldn't want my first kiss to be "just anyone" just for the sake of having one. (see my opinion on lasting relationships. )

Truthfully, I never thought much about guys till I was about 13, anyway. And then it was one specific person. I've always been kinda like that, I guess, I thought it was stupid to think about it through elementary school and most of middle school, since what's the point of a relationship at that age anyway...? Of course, hormones kick in at some point and then you just can't help it, but my brain dragged me into the whole deal kicking and screaming. Silly brain. Doesn't it know life's easier without all this?

[Serpentine]

As for your question, it sounds to me like you care about your current boyfriend, but you aren't sure whether ultimately he's really right for you. And like Alarra said, no, there's nothing wrong with that, and it's probably natural to feel that way. The important thing is just to be honest about it, both with him and with yourself.

I think it's more that I could think that he is right for me, but I want to see what people who're wrong for me are like before I come to that decision. And I think I'm pretty honest about it... If he gets this job in Canberra we'll be breaking up with the possibility open of getting back together at some ill-defined future date. On the other hand, his comment that "she decided" this distressed me somewhat I thought it was a mutual concensus... anyway.

Well in that case, given how many people on this thread have said they have trouble with it... you should start giving lessons!

Lesson 1: Use him as furniture.

[The Great Skenardo]

Lesson 1: Use him as furniture.

Note that boyfriends have a tendency to whine, however, if you try and get them reupholstered. You may also find them in need of frequent shampooing, and (in a few cases), restuffing.

[Logic]

Note that boyfriends have a tendency to whine, however, if you try and get them reupholstered. You may also find them in need of frequent shampooing, and (in a few cases), restuffing.

And while Red Mage claims that Febreeze solves everything, it does not work on man-furniture.

[AngelSword]

Ok, so I'm going out on a limb, putting my heart on the line, swallowing my pride, and all sorts of other examples of being nervous about my next course of actions.

Remember the girl that I've mentioned a few times? The pretty one who went with me to the Renaissance Faire? The sweet one who laid with me for hours, watching DVDs? I am going to drive up to the camp at which she works, and surprise her with a bouquet of lilies. And I will make good on a promise made to myself.

I will kiss her.

I will not leave her company until I do.

Wish me luck.

[Xykon_Fan]

Good luck, Angel! *Hopes the universe and stars align to magnetically pull her into you*

[Midnight Son]

I wish I could kiss the girl I love right now. Damn stupid unforseen circumstances keeping us apart.