New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 910111213141516171819
Results 541 to 543 of 543
  1. - Top - End - #541
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If a kingdom is ruled legitimately and fairly (enough) by a lich?

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I'm not sure I follow. Can you elaborate?
    So if I do something wrong, nothing else I do has any effect on the ability of the wronged party to forgive me (unless I like murder them or something, obviously). It might affect their willingness, but whether or not I am forgiven is entirely up to the people doing the forgiving, and I cannot render myself incapable of receiving forgiveness.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  2. - Top - End - #542
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zanos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If a kingdom is ruled legitimately and fairly (enough) by a lich?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    So if I do something wrong, nothing else I do has any effect on the ability of the wronged party to forgive me (unless I like murder them or something, obviously). It might affect their willingness, but whether or not I am forgiven is entirely up to the people doing the forgiving, and I cannot render myself incapable of receiving forgiveness.
    Forgiveness doesn't really have an effect on Good/Evil in any case. If someone refuses to forgive someone who did something wrong, it doesn't mean their decades of doing Good seeking atonement don't matter.
    If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!

  3. - Top - End - #543
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location

    Default Re: If a kingdom is ruled legitimately and fairly (enough) by a lich?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    So if I do something wrong, nothing else I do has any effect on the ability of the wronged party to forgive me (unless I like murder them or something, obviously). It might affect their willingness, but whether or not I am forgiven is entirely up to the people doing the forgiving, and I cannot render myself incapable of receiving forgiveness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanos View Post
    Forgiveness doesn't really have an effect on Good/Evil in any case. If someone refuses to forgive someone who did something wrong, it doesn't mean their decades of doing Good seeking atonement don't matter.
    Zanos's reply is good. Expanding on it a bit, the notion of redemption has little to do with whether you're forgiven or not. You can be forgiven and never do a thing to atone. Forgiveness, in this case, might be fore the forgiver's sake, to let go of the pain of what you did to wrong him.

    Even if you want to atone, and the people you wronged forgive you, it may also be beyond your ability to recompense them for what you've done. Hypothetically, an act of "irredeemable" evil would be one that, even if you were forgiven by all, and you strove the rest of eternity to be a paragon of virtue and righteousness, you're getting away with something you shouldn't, if you're not punished. And no amount of punishment can really be enough, either.

    That's what makes a singular act of "unspeakable" evil so hard to reconcile, because conceiving of such is so difficult.

    I think the best we are likely to come up with is either something that makes it an ongoing cost of your continued being (in which case your choice to not destroy yourself and your phylactery is ongoing villainy), or is going to "merely" be something so wicked that it takes somebody who is blackest-hearted evil to do it, no matter how good his reasons. But, potentially, redeemable...if he can come to truly repent of what he's done to the point that he would never do it again, even for the same or more compelling reasons. (This is amazingly difficult, because "I do this horrible thing for good reasons, and I'll just repent for it" is setting yourself up for failure.)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •