OOTS #1069 - The Discussion Thread

[Keltest]

Wouldn't know about this. I was just referencing a recent thread that someone who insisted that Bards had to play their instruments when casting spells using them as focuses made.

Whether that is the case or not, in 3.5 a bard does need to use sound to fill the verbal components for their spell, and I believe the language in the SRD allows for playing an instrument as verbal and somatic components for bard spells.

[Finagle]

If you are looking for moment-to-moment rules accuracy from this comic, you probably should stop reading. You are guaranteed to be continually frustrated and disappointed, because I don't care about that at all.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...0#post11664910

The author does not care about the rules. At all. And yet here he is, caring about the rules.

Don't feel you need to defend him: he doesn't care what people think and doesn't read the forum.

[hamishspence]

The comic doesn't need to always follow the rules - but it can still make jokes about the rules, from time to time.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...0#post11664910

The author does not care about the rules. At all. And yet here he is, caring about the rules.

Don't feel you need to defend him: he doesn't care what people think and doesn't read the forum.

I'm not "defending" him, I'm pointing out that you are reading things that are not there. "He doesn't care about rules accuracy" does not mean "he won't do jokes about the rules". You are angry because you feel he broke a promise he never made.

GW

[Unoriginal]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...0#post11664910

The author does not care about the rules. At all. And yet here he is, caring about the rules.

Don't feel you need to defend him: he doesn't care what people think and doesn't read the forum.

You don't need to care about the accuracy of the rules to joke about them

A good number of the jokes in the comic relies on the OotS world working similarly to DnD. It doesn't mean that the Giant has to do the painful job of matching everything that happens with 3.5. It was never about that. It was just about having fun by referencing a game.

[Kish]

[...]

You might as well have just said "I can't support what I claimed," but you managed to also imply that the multiple people who observed that what you'd said was untrue were motivated by wanting to defend the author, so...congratulations, I guess.

[KorvinStarmast]

Bards cast magic using the power of song and music (or poetry or oratory). That means Elan should be concentrating on singing and playing his lute correctly to generate the magical tones and resonances.
--
I think that would have made a better picture: Elan singing and playing his lute one-handed in an intense and determined manner.

I think Strill would have loved to have you participate in the GiTP 5e forum discussion about bards and musical spell focus requirments.

Though, it'd be more fun to have Elan and Roy trying diplomacy together! Roy using his int mod to tell Elan how to use his cha mod! I can see no way this could go horribly wrong!

I like the way that you think and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

The comic doesn't need to always follow the rules - but it can still make jokes about the rules, from time to time.

Amen.

[Rodin]

Edit: Wrong thread.

Mods, please remove?

[Unoriginal]

You can delete your own posts.

[danielxcutter]

Lovely pun on the fencing style of sword fighting that Julio taught him.

Actually that was completely unintentional. I guess I've spent too much time on Tumblr.

[Dilvish]

I vote for some sort of sword implant for Roy. Or at least one of those swords that can be summoned to his side magically. Heck, maybe that will happen during this fight, and he'll win it by calling the Greenhilt sword to him.

Meanwhile, perhaps Elan can actually, like, help in the fight.

I have a partial solution for Roy's sword dropping problem. When Roy next levels, Elan can teach him the ways of the bard. Then, the next time Roy drops his sword, he can cast Summon Instrument for a guitar, as an improvised club. Or maybe a tuba - that much metal should do some damage. :)

The above is meant as a joke.

[JumboWheat01]

I have a partial solution for Roy's sword dropping problem. When Roy next levels, Elan can teach him the ways of the bard. Then, the next time Roy drops his sword, he can cast Summon Instrument for a guitar, as an improvised club. Or maybe a tuba - that much metal should do some damage. :)

The above is meant as a joke.

It better be a joke. Because, obviously, playing a tuba is much more harmful than hitting someone with it.

[8BitNinja]

So the helium leak is patched, which is good. Which makes me wonder, can the Mechane conjure more from the Elemental Plane of Air and slowly regain lift? Having lost as much as it has, it would take time to get enough to clear the pass, but perhaps the Mechane won't crash, it'll just be forced to anchor until the balloon's filled up, providing time for the mutiny subplot while still leaving the Mechane in the game.

I'm pretty sure the elemental plane of air doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure it is the elemental plane of helium.

[mr-mercer]

For the last time Roy, you're supposed to drop your shield, not your sword! Are we going to need Belkar to sit on your shoulders and yell at you about this for the rest of the trip?

[An Enemy Spy]

The author keeps insisting that he doesn't make rules jokes any more, and that those are in the past, rules jokes only appeal to a small group of D&D players that is a minority of the current readership, and it's really the story he's interested in.

And then he keeps making rules jokes.

Oh no, what a calamity. A writer gradually changes the focus of his humor over a fourteen year long story and occasionally dips back into the humor the story originally focused on? Call the police, no the National Guard! This must be stopped!

But seriously, why do you care? Even if Rich actually meant he will never do a rules joke again, which I guarantee he did not, those words aren't legally binding. He can change his mind whenever he wants, so what's it to you?

[Gusion]

New comic is up.

This makes me happy because I feel like Rich read my posts from 1068 and this comic was almost in response to what I wrote.

I don't think that is true. But it is a nice coincidence.

Spoiler: Prediction

Show

Still betting on a Hold Monster from Elan here... 11 tries to get a mending right, but when his BFF is in danger he can pull out the big guns.

So if you're reading this one too, Rich, I hope you have a nice weekend.

[Ganbatte]

Oh no, what a calamity. A writer gradually changes the focus of his humor over a fourteen year long story and occasionally dips back into the humor the story originally focused on? Call the police, no the National Guard! This must be stopped!

But seriously, why do you care? Even if Rich actually meant he will never do a rules joke again, which I guarantee he did not, those words aren't legally binding. He can change his mind whenever he wants, so what's it to you?

Why do you care about why does he care? What's it to you?

[hamishspence]

Possibly the posts come across as attacking the author - hence, indignant response.

[Kantaki]

Now there's a fight about the Giant making jokes based on the D&D rules? Why?
And when did he say he wouldn't anymore?

All I remember is a post where he said he won't bend the story to fit the rules.

[Kish]

And when did he say he wouldn't anymore?

Nowhere. Finagle already indicated that they were twisting "doesn't care about moment-to-moment rules accuracy" into "doesn't make rules jokes anymore."

[hamishspence]

The closest to it I've found is:

I have virtually no interest in spending time spoofing the D&D rules anymore, especially since the rules the comic originally ran on were superseded years ago (and stand to be superseded again next year by 5th Edition). It simply doesn't interest me as a creator anymore; I have nothing left to say about it.

Basically, it comes down to a choice between moving OOTS away from D&D jokes, or ending OOTS and starting something different altogether. I'm not done with these characters yet, so I chose the former. But bringing back more tired jokes about skill points or feats or whatever is simply not in the cards. I did that, for a long time. I'm doing something else now.

And with that "virtually" - it allows for the occasional rules-spoofing moment.

[Metahuman1]

Soooo, plot twist idea,


The one the Giantess Bonds with once initial combat hostility's are cooled off (Pun not intended for the love of decency leave that one alone.) is Belkar, so much so that she winds up joining the party and becoming a PC! And we find out the reason she fights so well is she was a cleric, she just wasn't using obvious spells at the time cause she used it all up on pre combat buffs!

[Goblin_Priest]

Eesh, bunch of whiners. Always gotta whine about something.

Rules jokes will never get tired, though. I don't even play 3.5 anymore, I haven't in ages. Honestly, making jokes about its quirky rules just makes it vintage. Adds a little hint of "haha, yea, we played by some funky rules back then" nostalgia and appreciation to the strip. It's also a reminder of why we were drawn to this comic to begin with.

I used to read some other D&D related comics that have since "evolved" away from D&D. I don't read them anymore. Their authors baited me with a common interest, only to switch it for things I care little about.

And it's not even some obscure rule that one needs to have been a total 3.5 rules lawyer to understand (though those are fine too!), the joke is completely obvious to anyone who doesn't know anything about 3.5, because the joke explains itself. Elan literally says there's a bunch of game debuffs that would be hard to visually distinguish, there's nothing more to it. One doesn't need to know what the difference between "dazed" and "dazzled" is to appreciate it.

How can people even be annoyed over this?

[Gusion]

Oh I think we're also suppose to discuss about which status Roy has...

Staggered doesn't make any sense since he hasn't received any non-lethal damage, everything we've seen has been lethal.

So I'll go with she has a homebrew version of crushing blow feat that applies to her axe... resulting in him being stunned. He dropped his weapon (again, lulz) so that fits.

This strip answers...
that Elan didn't fall
how many rounds (not turns folks!) it has been
that at least somebody on the crew had the mind to help
that she (the giant) doesn't really know the consequences... panel 3... interesting foreshadowing there...

[Goblin_Priest]

Oh I think we're also suppose to discuss about which status Roy has...

Staggered doesn't make any sense since he hasn't received any non-lethal damage, everything we've seen has been lethal.

So I'll go with she has a homebrew version of crushing blow feat that applies to her axe... resulting in him being stunned. He dropped his weapon (again, lulz) so that fits.

This strip answers...
that Elan didn't fall
how many rounds (not turns folks!) it has been
that at least somebody on the crew had the mind to help
that she (the giant) doesn't really know the consequences... panel 3... interesting foreshadowing there...

Hmm, you are right. Elan forgot to add "Disabled" to the list. Had to look it up, I thought "disabled" gave the actual staggered debuff, but it's instead a similar albeit worse one. I'm pretty sure there are other ways than nonlethal to get staggered though, no?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Of course. There are always exceptions to the rules, and then there are exceptions to the exceptions.

It's like professionals never looked the system over...

[Peelee]

Of course. There are always exceptions to the rules, and then there are exceptions to the exceptions.

I'm pretty sure that defines most legal systems equally well.

[Jasdoif]

It's like professionals never looked the system over...

Or consistency wasn't the primary goal of the professionals looking the system over.

[Cazero]

Too bad such rules aren't designed with a someone having some kind of arbitration power to solve such litigious cases and other oversights bound to happen when you make a system supposed to cover everything that we can imagine and then some more just in case we forgot.
Wait...

[Snails]

Or consistency wasn't the primary goal of the professionals looking the system over.

There seem to be assumptions made that there actually exists a highly consistent system that would not be rejected. Inconsistencies can exist because anything but an inconsistent compromise would be vetoed by key stakeholders.

It is a standard thing that law professors will teach 1Ls (first year law students) with the Socratic Method, and find a student who will paint him/herself into a corner with their own overly consistent arguments to a result somewhere in the neighborhood of "uh, yeah, all people who cause a death are murderers and should be executed".