let's consider Kickstarter done

[Castamir]

So, like other backers from 5 years ago, I just got the O'Chul PDF. 96 pages of pure awesomesity!

But, this made me thinking. At the current pace, it's four years worth of the comic. All just for the backers, who would get to enjoy the story just the same if posted publicly, all what we get is a warm fuzzy feeling of exclusivity. All this detracts from what mere mortals get. This means, they're less likely to stay. A comic with less viewers also gets fewer paying backers. That means, less ability and motivation for the Giant to continue. Thus, getting exclusive content is harmful for us in the long run.

So, what about putting an end to Kickstarter 2012 rewards (other than individual drawings, I guess)? The remaining stories would be of course nice to have, but they can as well be posted on the main site, for all to see. I am selfish and greedy, but I feel no need to maximize the number of exclusive pages of goodness I see, just the total I get to see.

The Giant is no businessman, thus it's no wonder the amount of work was underestimated (even for the epic $1.254M gross). A good part of Kickstarter projects fail, and most at least partially underdeliver. I'm greatly satisfied with what I already got, and at this point would rather prefer to keep the comic going (no big preference which storyline in particular, they're all great).

[Rynael]

I think that the problem with that is that it's impossible to speak for everyone. The Kickstarter had a lot of backers, not all of whom go here, and for everyone you get who agrees, there will always be someone, somewhere, who didn't, and who would feel like a deal's been broken on them if that happened. The only way it would be uncontroversial is if the decision were unanimous, and that's not an easy thing to get. And I say this as someone who would've backed the Kickstarter if I'd been around at the time, but read the comic long after it ended. It's a nice sentiment, but it just doesn't seem practical.

[Sylian]

There are several things to consider. The O-Chul story will most likely be sold at some point, and that might provide The Giant with a good amount of revenue. Additionally, should The Giant not deliver the content he promised then that might hurt his credibility in the future. Imagine how upset someone who supported his Kickstarter primarily for the Dim Sun PDF might be, for instance. I, personally, do not care about the exclusivity either, but by keeping it semi-exclusive he could later sell it to other people. A PDF of the O-Chul story is worth at least $10, I'd argue. Giving it away for free would be nice, but I think it's reasonable to expect to get paid for his work.

[Aedilred]

But, this made me thinking. At the current pace, it's four years worth of the comic.

I'm pretty sure it's been at least five years, in fact, but that's not in itself a problem. Once it became apparent that the new stuff wasn't going to be created according to the original schedule I pretty much stopped worrying about it, since the main content all arrived in reasonable time. When it does turn up now, that's a nice bonus.

Of the remaining stuff, the crayon drawings and the CPPD story are things backers specifically paid for, so those couldn't really be cancelled with a clear conscience. I'm not sure about the mystery prize but that might be in the same boat.

I get the impression that the wallpapers and monster minis are things that would probably get done anyway at some point.

Which leaves only the Sir Francois, Julio Scoundrél and Dim Sun strips. I honestly can't remember what the deal with those were but unless I'm missing something the campaign page is no longer showing stretch goals so I can't be sure whether they were generic or something that someone effectively paid to commission.

In any case I think there is a limit to what can be written off from the remaining things on the list without screwing over certain backers. To an extent that's a risk you run with Kickstarter but I can't imagine Rich would be happy to do so given his feelings about paid content (see any number of discussion threads about tip jars, patreons, supporting the comic financially and so on).

And as mentioned above, forming a consensus of kickstarter backers to agree to waive their remaining rewards would be all but impossible at this stage. There were nearly 15,000 backers so even if every post in this thread consisted of a new kickstarter backer agreeing to your proposal, the thread at the time it reached the page limit would still only speak for about 10% of the total backers: a long way short of quorate imo.

[SaintRidley]

Which leaves only the Sir Francois, Julio Scoundrél and Dim Sun strips. I honestly can't remember what the deal with those were but unless I'm missing something the campaign page is no longer showing stretch goals so I can't be sure whether they were generic or something that someone effectively paid to commission.

Rich put those stories up as stretch rewards; the only thing specifically requested by a backer left to do is the CPPD story. That said, there's no telling how many backers were persuaded to back the project because of Sir Francois, Julio, or Dim Sun (I know I was already in but my interest was furthered with Dim Sun).

[Rynael]

There are several things to consider. The O-Chul story will most likely be sold at some point, and that might provide The Giant with a good amount of revenue. Additionally, should The Giant not deliver the content he promised then that might hurt his credibility in the future. Imagine how upset someone who supported his Kickstarter primarily for the Dim Sun PDF might be, for instance. I, personally, do not care about the exclusivity either, but by keeping it semi-exclusive he could later sell it to other people. A PDF of the O-Chul story is worth at least $10, I'd argue. Giving it away for free would be nice, but I think it's reasonable to expect to get paid for his work.

I was just reading the suggestion as them being released at the same time, not for free, but yeah, I otherwise agree, especially since it's the closest thing to a donation opportunity besides merchandise. At minimum the price of On the Origin of PCs, by its longer length alone, and especially if it gets bundled with the other Azure City stories.

Wait, am I trying to haggle up the price of something I will eventually buy? Either way, this will get resolved in due time, and given how often these sorts of threads come up, I don't want it to contribute to a general sound of impatience regarding things that are actually, when you consider the length of all the different components involved, being delivered in pretty good time.

[ThatNickGuy]

Rich openly admitted that he over-promised during the excitement of the original campaign. Which is totally understandable given that he raised over a million dollars.

But these extra PDF stories were all stretch goals, weren't they? I imagine most people who pledged did it for the main rewards like the books or crayon drawings.

For me, I ordered the full set of books. They were delivered in full and I'm happy enough with that. I see the rest as extra bonus material that I'm in no rush for or demand. If Rich suddenly said, "Look, guys, this is too much and I want to focus on the comic," I'd be 100% okay with that. Judging from the latest Workometer, the only specifically main rewards left to be fulfilled are the crayon drawings. I don't know how many are left, but if Rich said "I'm finishing the crayon drawings and that's it," I'd like to think most folk would be okay with that, too.

Honestly, with the number of failed or disappointing Kickstarters, I think it's commendable that he's still plugging away at the Workometer. That kind of dedication is rare. I can't imagine the kind of pressure this whole crowd-funding campaign has put on him.

[Castamir]

and for everyone you get who agrees, there will always be someone, somewhere, who didn't, and who would feel like a deal's been broken on them if that happened. The only way it would be uncontroversial is if the decision were unanimous, and that's not an easy thing to get.

Then, plan B: let's compare story lengths:

• Therkla: 17
• Belkar: 13
• Haleo&Julean: 26
• O'Chul: 96

10-page PDFs would fit the deal just fine, freeing the Giant's drawing time for things that benefit the future, be it the main comic or new public side stories.

On the other hand, while other side stories would be nice (I for one would want to see more of Sabine and/or Tsukiko), stealing the choice of old backers would be unfair (well, technically they'd still get their stories, but...).

[Aedilred]

Then, plan B: let's compare story lengths:

• Therkla: 17
• Belkar: 13
• Haleo&Julean: 26
• O'Chul: 96

10-page PDFs would fit the deal just fine, freeing the Giant's drawing time for things that benefit the future, be it the main comic or new public side stories.

On the other hand, while other side stories would be nice (I for one would want to see more of Sabine and/or Tsukiko), stealing the choice of old backers would be unfair (well, technically they'd still get their stories, but...).

I imagine that the length of the pdfs is determined by Rich depending on the story he's decided he wants to tell and how long he thinks it'll take, rather than setting an arbitrary page limit and working towards it. Writing concisely is after all often more of a challenge. I would not be surprised if the Belkar and Therkla stories started with the intention of being ten pages long and later sprawled to 13/17. I also can't imagine he sat down with the intention of writing a 100-page story about O-Chul; rather I expect he worked out the story he wanted to tell and eventually found it was about 100 pages long. At that point, he could scrap that concept and come up with a new story that's only ten pages long, but I think everyone would rather he was working on things he wants to work on rather than churning things out for the sake of it.

Whether he has the inspiration to write the remaining bonus stories, who knows, but, CPPD aside, those were characters or themes he'd chosen himself, so presumably he had a concept in mind that he was prepared to write about and unless he's changed his mind in the meantime it might be easier to deal with those than it has been to come up with the "new" Therkla and O-Chul stories.

Further, while I don't think anyone would object to his delaying the Kickstarter reward comics to work on the webcomic (as he largely has been doing), I think some backers would feel more aggrieved - and not without justification - if he sacked off the remaining Kickstarter reward stories in order to work on new saleable pdfs which the backers had to pay for. If revenue is a problem then I don't think anyone would have too much of an objection to his making the reward stories available as buyable pdfs for everyone at the same time, or almost the same time, as they went to the backers. Already the backer pdfs are getting a public release more quickly than they did at first.

[Kish]

Rich has mentioned that forum participants represent a distinct minority of his total readers. If everyone here agreed to forget there were ever promised Kickstarter rewards other than the ones we've already gotten, there would remain thousands of people who would scream "frauder" at him if he stopped working on the rewards that are left.

[ThatNickGuy]

I noticed one commenter in the Kickstarter comments who's been...quite demanding. Both of these quotes are from the same guy:

Please explain why it took so long to completed 95 pages and where you were gone between 24 April and 1st of May. Also, why is there no apology in this update for missing the deadline?

In 2013, Rich Burlew completed 3 Wallpapers, 2 stories, A set of monster minis and an average of 6 pages of comics a month. This was after the alleged thumb injury. Nothing of that magnitude of quantity has been produced since then. We all know why.

Please save everyone the trouble and publish the complete plot synopsis of Order of the Stick, including future elements. According to my calculations OOTS will not finish until August 2027 with the Drive finishing in 2022. This assumes similar productivity levels, levels we cannot rely on when Rich gets depressed because he's 50 and has been working on the same thing for 20 years. He already changed the art style (and his distinct brand) because other wise he couldn't work more. What else could he do?

All of this is downright rude to me. That's not even the worst that jackass said. He had the gall to say, "I speak for the silent majority when I say that Rich Burlew has obliterated all trust I had in him." He even compared Rich to Donald Trump. And all this over stretch goal content. As I said, aside from the crayon drawings, all the main Kickstarter campaign promises have been fulfilled. Everything else is bonus material in my eyes.

EDIT: Wow. And this same guy has been tweeting Rich with the same schtick. What the hell is wrong with this guy?

[Ted The Bug]

Yes. It's a shame you can't report somebody on Kickstarter.

[Gift Jeraff]

Is Rich a little kid that needs to be given a gold star for a partially finished job and be protected from mean Internet trolls?

[Grand Arbiter]

What the hell is wrong with this guy?

I am inclined to believe that asking what's not wrong will result in a much shorter list.


This particular individual seems like they need a reality check and a chill pill, at a minimum.

[Aedilred]

I am inclined to believe that asking what's not wrong will result in a much shorter list.


This particular individual seems like they need a reality check and a chill pill, at a minimum.

In principle I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with criticising the rate of productivity of goods or services you have paid for. If you commission something and it takes five years to finish, I think it's fair to start asking questions about what's going on. Even the Sistine Chapel ceiling only took four years.

But that's in principle. Kickstarter doesn't really work like that; indeed one of the problems with it is that backers view themselves as customers rather than investors. The entitlement displayed in those comments and the associated rudeness, not to mention how ridiculous some of the suggestions are and the way it bundles up complaints about delivery of backer content with production of the webcomic, which is administratively nothing to do with the Kickstarter, also completely undermines any validity the point might once have had. And given that there have been a lot of people outright scammed through Kickstarter, and that it's well-known that one-man-band businesses have a tendency to struggle to deliver on successful campaigns and even go under as a result, it seems bizarre to target someone who is clearly making a good faith effort to deliver everything promised long after many would have given up. Especially to do so on the occasion of their delivering something. They're in need of a reality check, rather.

[ThatNickGuy]

In principle I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with criticising the rate of productivity of goods or services you have paid for. If you commission something and it takes five years to finish, I think it's fair to start asking questions about what's going on. Even the Sistine Chapel ceiling only took four years.

But that's in principle. Kickstarter doesn't really work like that; indeed one of the problems with it is that backers view themselves as customers rather than investors. The entitlement displayed in those comments and the associated rudeness, not to mention how ridiculous some of the suggestions are and the way it bundles up complaints about delivery of backer content with production of the webcomic, which is administratively nothing to do with the Kickstarter, also completely undermines any validity the point might once have had. And given that there have been a lot of people outright scammed through Kickstarter, and that it's well-known that one-man-band businesses have a tendency to struggle to deliver on successful campaigns and even go under as a result, it seems bizarre to target someone who is clearly making a good faith effort to deliver everything promised long after many would have given up. Especially to do so on the occasion of their delivering something. They're in need of a reality check, rather.

I'd love to know what the guy pledged and the subsequent reward tier he chose. Because as I said earlier, I got everything I paid for. Everything else after that, like the desktop wallpaper and the PDFs, is icing on the cake.

[factotum]

I'd love to know what the guy pledged and the subsequent reward tier he chose. Because as I said earlier, I got everything I paid for.

If you look at the way the Kickstarter rolled out, I suspect the people like you and me who pledged early on before all the stretch goals were added are probably in the minority. There must be a lot of people out there who pledged only after the stretch goals and thus might reasonably expect those stretch goals to be implemented. Sure, there's no reason to be a jackass about it, but to assume everybody "got what they paid for" isn't reasonable either.

[DavidBV]

Damn, I hadn't posted in the KS Updates in years, but that Dale creature made me recover my KS password so I could reply to him.

I've read weeks ago people complaining about not getting their books+crayons years later. I think Rich should maybe offer them the books and a refund on the crayons, being realistic. He probably should have sent the books first, even losing money, as a crayon can later be sent in a small cardboard envelope (or refunded)

About the original thread topic... yeah, it has been said already. No way Rich will make a choice like that and give up on things he has explicitly promised in exchange of pledges. He'd be wise if he made all the remainign bonus stories 10 pages long, but in the end if he has this very cool idea that takes 50 pages to unfold, he'll do it. And that's why this comic is great.

[ThatNickGuy]

If you look at the way the Kickstarter rolled out, I suspect the people like you and me who pledged early on before all the stretch goals were added are probably in the minority. There must be a lot of people out there who pledged only after the stretch goals and thus might reasonably expect those stretch goals to be implemented. Sure, there's no reason to be a jackass about it, but to assume everybody "got what they paid for" isn't reasonable either.

You're right that it's wrong to assume everyone pledged support for just the offered tiers and not the stretch goals. I actually pledged late because I wasn't sure if I could afford to get the tier offering all the books. Then it became a birthday present and I split the cost with my parents. But that was always the main thing I was interested in. It was the meat and potatoes. Everything else was the gravy. I loved the idea of all the other inclusive things (and getting the package with notepads, stickers, colouring book, etc, was awesome), but even four years later, the extras were just that to me: extras. I certainly appreciate them (and currently have all the desktop wallpapers on a rotation), but I never NEEDED them or demanded them. I was happy enough to get the books.

Also, I'm certain the money raised as the campaign continued wasn't just because of stretch goals. The campaign got a LOT of publicity as it went on, with Rich giving a few interviews and more people learning about it. It was also when Kickstarter was still becoming a relevant thing, so it, along with Double Fine's campaign, raised awareness for the platform in general. Plus, Rich added more tiers to the campaign as it went along. I think that's where the "all the books!" tier came from, because at that point, the funding allowed Rich to have ALL the books back in print, rather than just one or two, which was the original point of the campaign. Before, I only pledged for two books. Then the "all the books!" tier went up and I jumped on the chance.

EDIT: So I've been looking through the old campaign and the pledge tiers. I never understood how the Backer's Choice stories worked, but I see there's a $1,250 tier for a story of that supporter's choice. So that'd be the Belkar, Thekla, and CPPD stories. And the O-Chul story was indeed part of the originally planned campaign. That alone must be a major weight off Rich's shoulders.

[King of Nowhere]

I for one am curious to read the missing kickstarter stories, and if that causes a small delay in the main comic, so be it. it means I'll be getting more oots at the end of it all. I admire rich's determination to deliver everything; trying to make good on promises is important to me.

regarding that dale guy, he looks misguided to me. that part about the forum beinhg shut down to prevent a riot makes me think he's a conspiracy theory guy, one of those paranoids who always read volumes in every small thing and is afterwards too set in his own theory to consider that hey, maybe happenstance does actually happen? so I went and left him a polite answer. especially because he is entitled to his opinion (though a little more diplomacy in expressing it couldn't hurt), and trying to shut him or censor him would be wrong.

[hagnat]

Short anwser: No.

Long answer:
The backers deserve to get their due. We invested money and expectation in Rich. It was him who created the stretch goals, not us. I believe his kickstarter would be equally successful without a lot of the additional goals, and he is doing a lot more for them than we initially anticipated (heck, i was expecting a 16-page story for O-Chul, not this marvellous thing he did). His KS drive also was (or still is) one of the most backed KS in his genre. It would be poor form if he became another KS who failed to deliver what he promised.

That said, i expect Rich to fulfill all the goals he set for his KS, even if takes another 5 years for him to do so. No need to rush it, just keep doing the awesome job he has been doing. It sucks for some people who might not see what they paid for (RIP Wrecan), but its the best Rich can do to keep his word for the community as a whole.

[sparkyinbozo]

I don't know about how to handle resolving the kickstarter, but I think some more transparency and/or communication would go a long ways. At least for me, it's not necessarily the delay/lack of rewards, but that we don't hear back for long periods as promised deadline pass or the main comic stagnates. It's kind of like a relationship: it's okay to have difficulties or conflicts, but the silent treatment is killer.

[pendell]

Is Rich a little kid that needs to be given a gold star for a partially finished job and be protected from mean Internet trolls?

No, but I personally have found, in motivating people, that giving them praise for the work they do well goes further than harshly criticizing them for their failures. Some criticism is necessary, perhaps doubly if the person has a big head and an inflated sense of their capabilities, but not from someone who really is putting forth their maximum effort.

Speaking as a person who's been in business for two decades, many companies, especially software companies, routinely over-promise. Estimation is extremely difficult when there is any creative element involved, be it software or artistic creation.

So Rich's failure to estimate the amount of work vs. time etc. doesn't make him evil or a cad. It makes him human.

And unlike many businesspeople I know, he doesn't have engineers or underlings whom he can stick with the job of meeting the impossible deadline sales negotiated. He's doing it all himself.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way out of this. Even if every kickstarter backer, including the rude ones, absolved and forgave Rich, allowed him to dispense with any further rewards, I think Rich would still push them out anyway, out of his own sense of honor.

Others might forgive Rich for failing to deliver. Unless I misread him, Rich would not forgive himself.

My preferred solution is: Fine. Take a break from the main comic (it's been off for almost a month anyway), sit down, crank out all the rest of the kickstarter stuff. Even if it takes a year. Then maybe even take a week or two of actual vacation.

Then come back with only two tasks to deal with, ready to tackle them fresh.

And, while Rich is not a little kid who needs a gold star, I think you'll find that encouraging him will help his energy levels and help him work far more effectively than too much criticism for what he gets wrong.

Why? Because Rich is not a six-year-old child with an inflated sense of his own capabilities. Again, unless I misread him, he's got a fierce internal critic who has far worse things to say to him on a daily basis. Feeding that internal critic doesn't get the work done. Encouraging him, giving him the strength to pick up his drawing tools, does.

It'd be different, of course, if he didn't have that internal critic. And while I've never met him in person, I recognize the symptoms. I have them myself.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Vinyadan]

Is Rich a little kid that needs to be given a gold star for a partially finished job and be protected from mean Internet trolls?

O man how would I love to be given a gold star a piece of gold as large as the sun gradually destroying itself by nuclear fusion reactions

[TheNecrocomicon]

I don't know about how to handle resolving the kickstarter, but I think some more transparency and/or communication would go a long ways. At least for me, it's not necessarily the delay/lack of rewards, but that we don't hear back for long periods as promised deadline pass or the main comic stagnates. It's kind of like a relationship: it's okay to have difficulties or conflicts, but the silent treatment is killer.

This. So much this. I was going to write a longer response about "small delays" but you encapsulate the issue much better than I could.

This sort of a lengthy delay to the main comic would be perfectly fine with me, if it was something like a planned end-of-book or end-of-chapter hiatus, or at least something that was duly announced and/or explained in a reasonably forthcoming manner. Instead, it took three weeks to see even the merest tweet as to what was going on, with not a single official forum post of any kind until two days ago when the O'Chul storygraphic novel was released.

As much as the newest Kickstarter work is a wonderful accomplishment, any of us who didn't or couldn't luck out to become KS backers have simply been left hanging in the wind. At the same time, it is the general online viewers who are the ones who potentially move up to become Kickstarter backers, online PDF buyers, and so forth if they enjoy the experience of following the story. Continuing to treat online viewers as an afterthought or a non-entity can only lead to shooting your business in the foot in the long run.

[DeliaP]

O man how would I love to be given a gold star a piece of gold as large as the sun gradually destroying itself by nuclear fusion reactions

Hmm... now that wouldn't work. Y'see, I believe Iron-56 is the most stable elemental isotope. Ones lighter than then tend to release energy by fusing together. Ones heavier than that have to undergo fission to release energy, and split into smaller ones.

Gold, being a lot heavier than iron, is pretty resistant to fusion into heavier atoms. It's also quite stable against the easiest kind of decays (split out a electron, converting a neutron to a proton, or spit out a couple of neutrons and protons together).

But, what exactly would be happening inside a star made entirely of gold?? Gravitational pressure would probably be pretty huge. Could that make the gold atoms turn into a gold-nucleus-and-electron plasma? And would the high pressure and temperature mean the cross-section for the nucleii to overcome their repulsion and collide would be high enough for collisions to take place? If so, it still probably wouldn't be fission: two gold nucleii go in, three ligher nucleii come out would be my guess as to the most likely collisions....

Oh, and...

He'd be wise if he made all the remainign bonus stories 10 pages long, but in the end if he has this very cool idea that takes 50 pages to unfold, he'll do it. And that's why this comic is great.

I could not agree more! And it's why I'll happily wait however long it takes for the Giant to complete this: because however long it takes, it'll be worth it. (And is also why I get occasionally frustrated by those whose impatient postings may actually make it less likely to be completed )

Oh! I have an idea. The Giant gets paid a ton of money for the rights to turn OotS into an animated TV series, so he doesn't have to worry about money ever again. And is still working on book 6 when the TV series catches up. So "OotS The Animated Series" completes before the webcomic, but diverges completely from what the Giant has planned from about the arrival of OotS in Firmament. I reckon that could work?

[DavidBV]

Incidentally,

Dale Lythgoe about 1 hour ago

It is clear I am fighting a brick wall here and that my comments are only upsetting both the fellow backers and myself. This has gone on far bigger than intended and whilst I am deeply angered and upset by Burlew's conduct, I will cease performing such actions on this particular avenue at this time.
Sorry to any backers who took offence.

Damn, all it took was asking.

[dude123nice]

This. So much this. I was going to write a longer response about "small delays" but you encapsulate the issue much better than I could.

This sort of a lengthy delay to the main comic would be perfectly fine with me, if it was something like a planned end-of-book or end-of-chapter hiatus, or at least something that was duly announced and/or explained in a reasonably forthcoming manner. Instead, it took three weeks to see even the merest tweet as to what was going on, with not a single official forum post of any kind until two days ago when the O'Chul storygraphic novel was released.

As much as the newest Kickstarter work is a wonderful accomplishment, any of us who didn't or couldn't luck out to become KS backers have simply been left hanging in the wind. At the same time, it is the general online viewers who are the ones who potentially move up to become Kickstarter backers, online PDF buyers, and so forth if they enjoy the experience of following the story. Continuing to treat online viewers as an afterthought or a non-entity can only lead to shooting your business in the foot in the long run.

From my personal experience I can say that I can perfectly understand the silent treatment, and empathize with the behavior . It's an odd thing, when you fail to deliver on a task or responsibility that isn't urgent and doesn't have a fixed cutoff date, but that you WILLINGLY took upon yourself, and you tend to be kinda embarrassed. A loot of people in this situation tend to try to avoid the people for whom they are performing the task until they have actual progress to show. They will often slave away in complete isolation just to get as much of the task done as fast as they can.

[TheNecrocomicon]

From my personal experience I can say that I can perfectly understand the silent treatment, and empathize with the behavior . It's an odd thing, when you fail to deliver on a task or responsibility that isn't urgent and doesn't have a fixed cutoff date, but that you WILLINGLY took upon yourself, and you tend to be kinda embarrassed. A loot of people in this situation tend to try to avoid the people for whom they are performing the task until they have actual progress to show. They will often slave away in complete isolation just to get as much of the task done as fast as they can.

Absolutely. It's critical to make the distinction between "actual malicious silent treatment" and "I'm just not going to bother saying anything until I have a product". I've definitely done the latter myself (and hopefully not the former, but I always endeavour to at least be civil with people I don't like).

It's just that Mr. Burlew's interactions with the forum community seem to be just surly and exasperated enough that it makes me wonder if the silence is deliberate (to some extent) or not. Then again, he is without a doubt a very busy man, and I'm pretty sure I would be frustrated too if I were in his place, having my hard work relentlessly picked apart in-depth as this forum is fond of doing at all times.

[Kish]

Well, he mentioned that he no longer posts on the forum, or reads it more than he absolutely has to. As far as that goes, his not communicating with his readers here is deliberate, but it's not about the Kickstarter as such, nor personally aimed at any individual.