Fallout VII - Vault-Tec calling

[Balmas]

Just the hazard of fast traveling.

Though I am amused by people now complaining Fast Travel has an effect, when for many years, the complaints were all about nothing happening when the player wasn't around as a witness.

Eh, those complaints are honestly still valid. You still have a problem with the player being the only one with any agency. It's just now you have an extra helping of BS where the game decides that not only did the group of crap raiders decide to attack the settlement with four times as many missile turrets as people, they successfully managed to avoid becoming crispy barbecue by said turret array, broke through the eighteen-foot-tall steel-reinforced defensive wall, selectively destroyed one generator that was encased in a doorless concrete shed, and made off with all your mutfruit while leaving all your weapons alone.

Oh dang it. Should have paid attention when people have been complaining about 4th Fallout not feeling like Fallout. It's.... basically Borderlands with bits of Minecraft thrown in?

Is there anything like Enderal (Skyrim total conversion mod) for it yet? As is, I don't really want to play it (after ~12 hours).

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it's better than Fallout 3 in nearly every way, but it still feels like a disjointed collection of features, none of which is actually given enough focus to be truly exceptional and most of which are just barely over mediocre.

[Avilan the Grey]

Today's overly long play session was full of revelations:

1. When I stopped playing last character, it was widely accepted that it was Far Harbor that caused resets in robots. This is obviously not the case, having two robots reset during the day today.
There are two theories out there and I am now practicing both of them and it seems to work, but I can't tell you which one is correct (or both):
A) If you move a robot to another settlement and then give it a supply line, it will sooner or later reset. Always build the robot in one of the two settlements you want to connect. OR have a robot workbench at the new settlement, and "craft" the robot (just open it up in the workbench, change something like color back and forth and then release it).
B) Have the M-Sat installed in all robots. The theory goes that since the M-SAT is a quest essential item, the game cannnot reset that robot since the M-sat would disappear into thin air. Not sure if it matters, but all my robots now have the M-sat installed and no one has reset.

2. The aggressive AI I love on Sentries and Assaultrons is indeed NOT utilized when you have them as companions. They spend virtually all the time standing on top of you looking stupid and not attacking.
At least that means I can just modify the heck out of ADA and Codsworth and not lose any aggressiveness.

[NeoVid]

Oh dang it. Should have paid attention when people have been complaining about 4th Fallout not feeling like Fallout. It's.... basically Borderlands with bits of Minecraft thrown in?

FO4's story and characterization were nowhere near as engaging as BL2's for me. That said, I did end up spending more time playing FO4 than all of the BL series put together...

[Triaxx]

Fo4 has a bit more replayability than BL2. You either go to a new character of which you only get four, (plus two DLC), or go up a difficulty level, which just nets more junk guns.

[Avilan the Grey]

Borderlands (both) were just huge disappointments to me. Not sure what, but it never clicked for me.

[Triaxx]

I enjoy spraying bullets at things, Borderlands contains lots of things to spray bullets at. Match made in bullet hell.

Fallout gives me a place to pretend to be someone reluctant to spray bullets.

[Mutazoia]

2. The aggressive AI I love on Sentries and Assaultrons is indeed NOT utilized when you have them as companions. They spend virtually all the time standing on top of you looking stupid and not attacking.
At least that means I can just modify the heck out of ADA and Codsworth and not lose any aggressiveness.

Funny....I can't keep my bots from charging in head first, especially when I'm trying to line up a stealth shot on a Raider's Fusion Core if I get within their on/off airspace, or rolling in front of me as I'm shooting, because they want to use that mace, rather than the gattling laser.....

[factotum]

I enjoy spraying bullets at things, Borderlands contains lots of things to spray bullets at.

Which is a lot less satisfying when your spray of bullets knocks about 10% off the health of the bullet sponge you're firing at, as happens in higher difficulties in the later Borderlands game. (I never noticed it being a problem in the first game, oddly enough, but it definitely was in the second and the pre-sequel).

[Balmas]

So, highlights from the Bethesda pre-E3 press conference:
-Fallout 4 VR is coming. Not really interesting because most people aren't going to have the PC needed or the VR googles necessary. Then again, if you have the money to drop on a 1070/1080ti to fuel your Fallout 4 VR graphics, you probably have an extra $500ish to buy a VR headset too. The trailer looks kind of janky, with a lot of two-handed weapons being manipulated as if in a pistol grip. Feels really weird to watch a gatling laser being swung around like that. I can't say it looks all that appealing, with a lot of things jumping out as being even more immersion breaking than normal.
-Paid mods are back. They're calling it Creation Club now, and basically skimmed over credits with as much speed as dignity allowed.

[Avilan the Grey]

Funny....I can't keep my bots from charging in head first, especially when I'm trying to line up a stealth shot on a Raider's Fusion Core if I get within their on/off airspace, or rolling in front of me as I'm shooting, because they want to use that mace, rather than the gattling laser.....

Melee bots seems to be using the same AI as followers as Dogmeat with detection range variations depending on head type,meaning they will often return to you (and repeatedly be shot in the back and blocking your aim) rather than hunt down hiding or fleeing enemies.
Guards and provisioner bots on the other hand are far more aggressive and will often leave their route to hunt down every enemy in their detection range.

[Togath]

-Paid mods are back. They're calling it Creation Club now, and basically skimmed over credits with as much speed as dignity allowed.

Isn't it just for ps4, and the only way they could get around Sony being twitchy?

[Balmas]

Isn't it just for ps4, and the only way they could get around Sony being twitchy?

Nope. PC, PS4, Xbox.

[Togath]

Looking closer... these seriously aren't paid mods.
It's basically internships or something for the company with the goal of helping make more and better dlc.
I personally support this(especially since preexisting content is disqualified and any content submitted must go through a fairly detailed process).

[Balmas]

Did you miss the part about buying the mods with credits? If you then go to the page listed, you can learn that the credits are bought via Steam, the PS4 store, etcetera. Spending money for mods sure sounds like paid mods, doesn't it?

I can even understand why mod authors would want to be paid for their work, and why they can't right now. It mostly comes down to Zenimax being crappy towards mod authors, and saying that, yes, you own your mods, but no you're not allowed to do anything to make money off them. However, I can't help but see something like this and feel like instead of making a curated system where Zenimax can stick their greedy little fingers in mod-makers' pots, it would be much simpler and more beneficial to the community to just let mod authors sell their work free of interference.

[Togath]

So a company releasing dlc is bad?
These aren't random Bob the modder making these, it'll be people going through the company to ensure some amount of quality control and presumably stability, etc.

[Trekkin]

Is there any indication of whether it will still be possible (well, easy/facilitated; it's always possible) for PC users to load free mods in addition to the paid/approved ones? (EDIT: I know they say it will be. I also know better than to believe them.)

This is shamefully bad, but if we can ignore it, I might still buy Bethesda products at some point in the future.

[Togath]

Is there any indication of whether it will still be possible (well, easy/facilitated; it's always possible) for PC users to load free mods in addition to the paid/approved ones? (EDIT: I know they say it will be. I also know better than to believe them.)

This is shamefully bad, but if we can ignore it, I might still buy Bethesda products at some point in the future.

Perfectly allowed and it will remain the main way for people to distribute mods according to Bethesda. Plus any currently existing mods would not qualify for the paid mini dlc thing even if the creators did jump through all the hoops needed. So, like, we lose NOTHING. And instead what we GAIN is people who have a better sense of what people want from dlc making dlc.
It seems like a win-win to me.

[Balmas]

So a company releasing dlc is bad?

Depends on the company, depends on the DLC. I'm sure you were ecstatic to be charged for the ability to put armor on horses in Oblivion.

In most cases, I'm going to say that it's good for a company to make and produce more quality content.

What's bad is when you make your EULA for modders give them rights to own their own content, but not do anything. And then give them an environment that's entirely controlled and curated by Bethesda where they can "sell" their mods using a virtual currency that only exists to buy mods. Given how crappily Zenimax has treated their customers, I will be floored if modders get the full amount of credits paid for their work, and flat out astounded if there's a way for credits to be traded for actual, real-world money.

See, I'll eat my hat if this is a beneficial partnership between modders and Bethesda; instead, experience suggests that it's a system where modders' hard work is exploited for credits which will never translate into actual payroll.

These aren't random Bob the modder making these, it'll be people going through the company to ensure some amount of quality control and presumably stability, etc.

Oh, aye. Quality work like extruding the mesh on a mudcrap by half a centimeter, slapping a dwemer texture on it, and charging 150 credits for it. Or duplicating models and work that already exist in game. Or outright ripping off mods that already exist, like Frostfall.

[Trekkin]

See, I'll eat my hat if this is a beneficial partnership between modders and Bethesda; instead, experience suggests that it's a system where modders' hard work is exploited for credits which will never translate into actual payroll.

Hey, I'll eat my hat if this turns into anything other than a system for heavily pressuring modders to accept Bethesda's NDA array, drag themselves through the approval process, get denied for omg secret can't tell you reasons, and see a barely different version of their work show up in an offical DLC sometime later.

This just seems like a transparent attempt to attract modders with the promise of money (which I agree with you will never materialize for the vast majority of Creators) as a way of assuming total control over what mods are out there. I'm still waiting for the patch that effectively disables non-Creators' Club mods by frivolously changing all the object IDs.

[Togath]

Bleh... not really worth trying to discuss it nor enjoyable. So I won't.
Instead...
Fun stuff! Like how I only just now noticed sweetrolls pops up in Fallout 4... coincidence, or Skyrim Reference?~

[Trekkin]

Bleh... not really worth trying to discuss it nor enjoyable. So I won't.
Instead...
Fun stuff! Like how I only just now noticed sweetrolls pops up in Fallout 4... coincidence, or Skyrim Reference?~

I think it's a general Bethesda thing, actually. It was in Fallout 3, as well, and Shivering Isles.

[SZbNAhL]

Given how crappily Zenimax has treated their customers, I will be ... flat out astounded if there's a way for credits to be traded for actual, real-world money.

Assuming for the moment that they're not going to try to stop normal mods (because they explicitly said they're not going to), why would anyone make paid mods that they wouldn't get paid for? Presumably there'd be a bunch of hoops to jump through as opposed to just uploading to the Nexus, which wouldn't be worthwhile if all you get at the end of the day is the ability to get other mods that would otherwise be free anyway. And if nobody chooses to put their mod into the paid-for system, it won't be a very successful venture.

[veti]

So a company releasing dlc is bad?
These aren't random Bob the modder making these, it'll be people going through the company to ensure some amount of quality control and presumably stability, etc.

If that's true, then I can see a case for it. I mean: if Bethesda will undertake to support the mods...

But it's not what happened last time Valve tried this. There was some right old crap you could pay for.

If they've learned from that experience and are doing it properly this time, good on them. But on the other hand, I don't know if they realise what they're taking on. Supporting someone else's software is a minefield, the scope of which they may not fully appreciate. Yet.

Hey, I'll eat my hat if this turns into anything other than a system for heavily pressuring modders to accept Bethesda's NDA array, drag themselves through the approval process, get denied for omg secret can't tell you reasons, and see a barely different version of their work show up in an offical DLC sometime later.

That's also a good point. Not that I agree with your suspicion, but there's a legal quagmire there as well as a technical one.

Unless there's a final cutoff with "honestly, truly, for sure, we're done with this game now, no more DLC from us" before the "paid modders" get to join the party at all - there's going to be a strong risk that someone will claim they've done this. And even if their case is legally watertight, it could cost them a lot of goodwill.

[Trekkin]

Unless there's a final cutoff with "honestly, truly, for sure, we're done with this game now, no more DLC from us" before the "paid modders" get to join the party at all - there's going to be a strong risk that someone will claim they've done this. And even if their case is legally watertight, it could cost them a lot of goodwill.

And, unlike the legal liability, there's nothing they can write into the legal documentation to submit oneself to be a Creator that can indemnify them against losing goodwill -- and they're likely to suffer just for trying.

[Avilan the Grey]

I should probably get on with the game and stop fiddling about.
Time to turn Codsworth into a mini sentry and go take the Castle back.

I am done with the railroad, I got ballistic weave and will now stop working with them.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You know, at the same time, Bethesda both deserves the fan angst and doesn't deserve it. Or rather, they fully and completely deserve it, but not for the reason people seem to think, concerning the Creator's Club.

First off, they send an intern with a 30 minute infomercial to E3... that wasn't exactly the best play to begin with. Then they go beat dead dogs because their two best games are one that was out six years ago and one that released last year, with nothing else other than Dishonored to crow about. And in the middle of all of this mind-numbingly 'we don't care' stuff, they go through a quick blurb about 'TOTALLY not paid mods guys... they're just mods, that you pay for! See? Totally different. Moving on...'.

Then the intern, almost certainly under very explicit and direct instructions to do so, simply ended with 'go bethesda' and beat a hasty retreat to avoid getting pelted by rubbish by the now angry mob.

This is *NOT* how you drop this kind of bomb, Bethesda. And the potential damage from this mishandling is surprisingly extreme.

FWIW, the Creation Club isn't 'paid mods', nor is it 'stealing other people's mods and selling them'. At least not how most people define 'paid mods'. Lemme 'splain what they're actually doing. You can also go check out this Oxhorn Video he released which kind of sums it up nicely.

Also, this is Bethesda. They'd do better with quality of product if they were NEVER involved in QC. After all, the most popular mod for Fallout: New Vegas wouldn't be a mod literally titled New Vegas Anti-Crash if they put out stable games.

Mind you, it isn't going to work, because there's nothing left to do with mods that hasn't already been done. Come on, Skyrim has been out for six years now, there's mods for everything... yes, including the link outfit and master sword. And if they do come up with anything, you can bet some modder is going to create something mechanically identical, although with different graphical assets, and release it for free, which will undermine the No Girls Allowed Club.

And the first time they release a mod similar in concept to FOAC through the club? Bethesda is dead. Not just the Club, Bethesda. Because they will have just admitted that they are releasing buggy crap, AND they're going to charge you an extra whatever cost for the privilege of actually being able to play the game you already shelled out big bucks for without crashing every fifteen minutes. The comparison to ransomware is inevitable. And that kind of PR blunder can literally bring Bethesda down if they aren't careful.

[Triaxx]

Fair's fair, Bethesda didn't actually work on New Vegas QC, that was on Obsidian. Still the rest of the point is taken.

[Avilan the Grey]

After reading the Forbes article about it I must say it seems the point isn't that there will be "identical content" or "paid mods". The identical part Automatron already have covered anyway...

The point is that this is not only almost only In-house developed items (aka new DLC) bur that the few third party / amateur items are vetted to the same degree as Bethesda's own content.

In short I am very curious and rather positive about this because it brings new life to two of my favorite games.

[Togath]

Watching more of a playthrough and... did they ever fix the "don't build a robot workbench before the automatron quest line says to or it'll glitch" bug? It sounds like a heck of a thing.

[Triaxx]

You technically can't, but it never bothered me.