Fallout VII - Vault-Tec calling

[gooddragon1]

I think the actual tgm command might get around the bomb collars.

It worked, but given how gameplay flags don't like that sort of thing, I'm hesitant to try any further.

[factotum]

I suppose it has that detail going for it. I think it's the only NV dlc that allows you to leave early.

No, I'm pretty sure you can leave the Big MT in Old World Blues before you've finished the DLC plotline--I definitely recall going forward and backward to there several times during it.

[Balmas]

No, I'm pretty sure you can leave the Big MT in Old World Blues before you've finished the DLC plotline--I definitely recall going forward and backward to there several times during it.

If you left Old World Blues early, it's because you had a mod letting you do it. The entire point of the main quest in OWB is that someone without a normal body--body and brain together--cannot escape the Big MT research facility. You can't go outside the radar fence, and neither can the Think Tank. That's why you need the bits and pieces you're sent to find, and that's why you have to talk down or kill the think tank at the end--so that they can't also escape with what you've given them.

[factotum]

I may be misremembering--I've just looked it up and it sounds like I had the Big Mountain Transportalponder, which you only get for completing the quest there? I therefore can't actually remember why I returned to the place after having finished the quest, I just know that I did. And no, there are no mods involved, I rarely play mods and I've certainly never played any Fallout game with them.

[DigoDragon]

I may be misremembering--I've just looked it up and it sounds like I had the Big Mountain Transportalponder, which you only get for completing the quest there? I therefore can't actually remember why I returned to the place after having finished the quest, I just know that I did. And no, there are no mods involved, I rarely play mods and I've certainly never played any Fallout game with them.

Perhaps you went back for some side quests or loot you didn't get the first time?

But yeah, you only get the BMT after completing the main quest. The player home there is pretty good, though it's behind a couple loading screens. But if your roommates bother you, you can always turn them off.

[Triaxx]

Interesting mod just popped up on the Nexus homepage for Fallout 4:Central Settlement Armory Which is basically a box you throw weapons or armor into that auto-distributes to your settlers. Looks interesting, and much easier than a batch file.

[Avilan the Grey]

i did NOT remember / realize you fail the BoS ending if you defend the castle.
So I had to reload an earlier save. Off to the Glowing Sea to fetch nukes!

[DigoDragon]

Interesting mod just popped up on the Nexus homepage for Fallout 4:Central Settlement Armory Which is basically a box you throw weapons or armor into that auto-distributes to your settlers. Looks interesting, and much easier than a batch file.

Ooh, that actually looks promising. Again, it's amazing the kind of mods that come out that make me wonder why isn't it already something in vanilla.

[Triaxx]

In this case, it's because it uses F4SE, which always includes things I guess they didn't figure were even possible, much less necessary.

Posted the pen-ultimate episode of Fallout 4. As much as I enjoyed, and still enjoy the game, I'm wondering if it's worth LPing the DLC? It's never been my most popular series anyway, and it's not the best game in the series. If I do, it'll be Nuka-world first, to make Far Harbor as tough as possible.

[Avilan the Grey]

Fun bug:
I can't complete Ad Victoriam because my robot provisioners attack Prime as he walks past them.

[Yuki Akuma]

So something's been bothering me lately.

Why did the apocalypse apparently annihilate the concept of bicycles from the world? You'd think they'd have gotten a few working in the past two centuries, surely?

But no, everyone walks everywhere...

[Triaxx]

You try peddling anywhere with a rust fused chain in a world without lubricant.

[DigoDragon]

You try peddling anywhere with a rust fused chain in a world without lubricant.

Surely there's a vegetable you can grow and turn into oil for that?

[Triaxx]

What? Oil from Vegetables? What kind of Commie Plot is this?

[gooddragon1]

Got to admit, the conversation between reverse dog and don at the fountain makes up for the railroading (I liked the pitt in fallout 3 because I could just go on a rampage straight away). I could just listen to 5 minutes of that and not get bored.

[Avilan the Grey]

So something's been bothering me lately.

Why did the apocalypse apparently annihilate the concept of bicycles from the world? You'd think they'd have gotten a few working in the past two centuries, surely?

But no, everyone walks everywhere...

Well that also goes for 99% of all Zombie media.


Anyway, I solved my problem. I had to walk the route first, pick up any robot provisioner and temporarily break the trade route by sending them home. What happened was splash damage from Prime's nuclear weapons.

Also: AWESOME*

Spoiler

Show

*Liberty Prime really do far less damage than you think. Yes, he can vaporize Behemoths with one eyeblast. But he takes three shots with that thing to incapacitate a robot provisioner mr Handy?

[Avilan the Grey]

Well.
I did the BOS "ending" this time and well... I love it. I must say I feel very satisfied with it. And what I mean with that is that it turned ut as I hoped and I have not come across anything that makes me regret it.

[druid91]

Well.
I did the BOS "ending" this time and well... I love it. I must say I feel very satisfied with it. And what I mean with that is that it turned ut as I hoped and I have not come across anything that makes me regret it.

Personally I found the BOS ending depressing as hell. Though I also find the Institute ending to be the only happy one.

[Alex Knight]

Personally I found the BOS ending depressing as hell. Though I also find the Institute ending to be the only happy one.

Ahh, a Vault-Tec Overseer in training, you are.

[druid91]

Ahh, a Vault-Tec Overseer in training, you are.

More that I'm excessively tribal I suppose. The idea that a father/mother would turn on and destroy their childs life's work, no matter what that is is sad.

It's not a bad story. But I just can't get the same good vibes out of helping the Brotherhood destroy everything Shaun ever loved, executing Danse, and leaving the child Shaun to die when the nuke goes off.

The fact that their constant CoD style soldier talk aggravates me probably doesn't help.

[Alex Knight]

Well, there's also the Minuteman and Railroad endings. And it's tragic but I can see the Sole Survivor saying "My son died when the Institute raided our Vault." Because aside from some genetic traits, the two of you aren't family at all.

[Balmas]

In the past three weeks, I've poured an unhealthy amount of time into Witcher 3. I was about four paragraphs into a comparison between Witcher 3 and Fallout 4, but I looked at it and realized it would essentially be fifteen pages of "Witcher 3 is awesome in all of the important ways, and Fallout 4 could stand to learn some lessons if Bethesda ever decided to put good games ahead of remaking Skyrim a dozen times."

[Mutazoia]

In the past three weeks, I've poured an unhealthy amount of time into Witcher 3. I was about four paragraphs into a comparison between Witcher 3 and Fallout 4, but I looked at it and realized it would essentially be fifteen pages of "Witcher 3 is awesome in all of the important ways, and Fallout 4 could stand to learn some lessons if Bethesda ever decided to put good games ahead of remaking Skyrim a dozen times."

Except they are two different games (style wise). Witcher 3 runs on rails, Fallout 4 is a sandbox.

No matter how many times you play Witcher 3, you are always Geralt of Rivia, with the same weapons, the same attacks, etc. The dev's for Witcher can afford to put all sorts of coolio dialogue options and more work into the story, because they know exactly who you are going to be, what you are going to be doing, and where you are doing it. Because you are allways Geralt, with Geralt's attitude, etc.

In Fallout, the Sole Survivor can be a different person every game, with different skill sets, different weapons, etc. You can go see Valentine at level 2 or level 20, or skip the main plot entirely and just do "side quests" for ever. With that kind of open play style, trying to create dialogue options for every possible "personality" that a player might try to play is impossible....they have to focus on the basic options and move on. Since the game isn't run by an AI that can adapt to every little thing you do in the game (like a DM could in a TTRPG) they code for a broad spectrum to give you the most freedom as they can, with out bogging your system of choice down with the proverbial **** ton of code.

Basically, Witcher 3 is an adventure game, and Fallout is an RPG. Apples and Oranges.

[factotum]

Except they are two different games (style wise).
.
.
.
Because you are allways Geralt, with Geralt's attitude, etc.

And yet you get more choice over how to portray your Geralt in Witcher 3 than you ever do for your Sole Survivor in Fallout 4, outside of Far Harbor at any rate. Decisions you make in W3 have *huge* consequences, even in what you think are sidequests, whereas the only decision you generally get to make in Fallout 4 is "Do I accept this quest in one of three different ways, or tell them I'll do it later?". Even the three possible endings for the Witcher 3 are far more varied than the four in FO4.

[Mutazoia]

And yet you get more choice over how to portray your Geralt in Witcher 3 than you ever do for your Sole Survivor in Fallout 4, outside of Far Harbor at any rate. Decisions you make in W3 have *huge* consequences, even in what you think are sidequests, whereas the only decision you generally get to make in Fallout 4 is "Do I accept this quest in one of three different ways, or tell them I'll do it later?". Even the three possible endings for the Witcher 3 are far more varied than the four in FO4.

It's the illusion of "moar freedom" cast over the the hunk of rock that is "YOU ARE GERALT. HIT IT WITH YOUR SWORD, SWORD BOY".

If the majority of your game is on a giant rail, you can have minor decisions change minor details in the "Plot"...because nothing else will change, no matter what. So you have an extra few dialog choices...big deal, they still ammout to Yes, snarky yes, no, snarky no, or tell me a bedtime story before I give you a yes, a snarky yes, a no, or a snarky no. At least in Fallout 4 you can't lock yourself out of a quest just because you didn't feel like doing it just then.

[Balmas]

Except they are two different games (style wise). Witcher 3 runs on rails, Fallout 4 is a sandbox.

Basically, Witcher 3 is an adventure game, and Fallout is an RPG. Apples and Oranges.

You and I have some very different definitions. For me, a game where your actions both in and out of combat have weight and consequences is a much more robust RPG than one in which you have essentially no consequences or choices whatsoever. Witcher 3 allows you to play the game again and again, seeing how your Geralt's actions affect the world you live in. By contrast, Fallout 4 makes it so that your actions have virtually no consequences, thus robbing you of any ability to actually make meaningful choices. Fallout 4 is an adventure sandbox with minimalist story and RPG elements haphazardly duct-taped on, while Witcher 3 is an actual RPG, with those difficult things like meaningful choices, good writing, real characters, you know.l

No matter how many times you play Witcher 3, you are always Geralt of Rivia, with the same weapons, the same attacks, etc. The dev's for Witcher can afford to put all sorts of coolio dialogue options and more work into the story, because they know exactly who you are going to be, what you are going to be doing, and where you are doing it. Because you are allways Geralt, with Geralt's attitude, etc.
In Fallout, the Sole Survivor can be a different person every game, with different skill sets, different weapons, etc. You can go see Valentine at level 2 or level 20, or skip the main plot entirely and just do "side quests" for ever. With that kind of open play style, trying to create dialogue options for every possible "personality" that a player might try to play is impossible....they have to focus on the basic options and move on. Since the game isn't run by an AI that can adapt to every little thing you do in the game (like a DM could in a TTRPG) they code for a broad spectrum to give you the most freedom as they can, with out bogging your system of choice down with the proverbial **** ton of code.

See, I get the point you're trying to make, but it falls flat. Bethesda didn't just focus on the basics: they all but skipped them entirely. It's impossible to have conversation options that will satisfy everyone, true, but instead of trying for three or four that would represent most, Bethesda decided to have two voiced protagonists and give them voice options that satisfy no personalities. It's almost ironic that you pick the limited protagonist as the rock to debate Witcher 3 on, as Fallout 4's blank-slate protagonist is much more limited in their choices than fixed-base Geralt.

It's the illusion of "moar freedom" cast over the the hunk of rock that is "YOU ARE GERALT. HIT IT WITH YOUR SWORD, SWORD BOY".

If the majority of your game is on a giant rail, you can have minor decisions change minor details in the "Plot"...because nothing else will change, no matter what. So you have an extra few dialog choices...big deal, they still ammout to Yes, snarky yes, no, snarky no, or tell me a bedtime story before I give you a yes, a snarky yes, a no, or a snarky no. At least in Fallout 4 you can't lock yourself out of a quest just because you didn't feel like doing it just then.

Again, it's the difference between choices actually having weight and being unable to make choices that meaningfully influence things. In Witcher 3, you have choice from the moment you accept a quest--or don't, because that's actually an option--to when you complete it. I can't remember a quest, main or side, where you didn't have an option that changed the outcome. Extra dialogue options are a big deal, because usually those extra dialogues change what happen, and even when they don't they, give Geralt more personality. The possibility of missing quests because you wandered off into who-knows-where is realistic, immersive. You can actually talk with the target of your mission, and decide whether you actually need to kill them or not based on

Compare it to Fallout 4, where you're prevented from actually having many choices until the end of the game. No matter when you do it, you're going to follow the plot railroad Bethesda set out for you, because it's impossible to complete the game any other way. You can't turn down quests. Once you accept the quest, because you have no choice but to do so, your choices boil down to which thing you point at the enemy. Your speech options boil down to Yes, Greedy Yes, Yes But Later, Non Sequitur Labeled Sarcastic, and occasionally More Information (So I Can Then Say Yes). You're not allowed to talk to your enemies, or spare therm. Oh, and since you're the only person who can do anything in the wasteland, people are content to wait for you to finish looting every tin-can from downtown Boston. Not like they have a life, anyway, since they don't have anything to say.

Choice is about more than just the main plot, is what I'm saying. And choice? Witcher 3 lets you make them, and Fallout 4 does not.

[Triaxx]

Which is why Far Harbor and Automatron are two of the best bits of DLC. The former gives the options on how to deal with all the factions, while the latter allows you to talk around the bad guy, either as yourself, the Shroud, or just by avoiding the last fight.

[Avilan the Grey]

More that I'm excessively tribal I suppose. The idea that a father/mother would turn on and destroy their childs life's work, no matter what that is is sad.

It's not a bad story. But I just can't get the same good vibes out of helping the Brotherhood destroy everything Shaun ever loved, executing Danse, and leaving the child Shaun to die when the nuke goes off.

The fact that their constant CoD style soldier talk aggravates me probably doesn't help.

The problem, of course, is that Shaun is basically Dr Mengele. If only by proxy (he orders others to do the experiments). In short, your son is a monster. His legacy, and what he loved doing, must be destroyed with him.

My character, after meeting her son, told him off to his face (basically saying he is no longer her son). She did have enough mercy to later kill him in his bed instead of leaving him for the explosion though.

[factotum]

She did have enough mercy to later kill him in his bed instead of leaving him for the explosion though.

I'm not sure shooting or stabbing someone is necessarily any more merciful than them getting instantly vapourised by a nuclear explosion.

[The_Jackal]

The problem, of course, is that Shaun is basically Dr Mengele. If only by proxy (he orders others to do the experiments). In short, your son is a monster. His legacy, and what he loved doing, must be destroyed with him.

Pretty much this. The "greater good" has been the accompaniment to virtually every atrocity in history, like the piano to the most horrific lounge lizard the world has seen.

I'm not sure shooting or stabbing someone is necessarily any more merciful than them getting instantly vapourised by a nuclear explosion.

I'll agree it's not quite mercy, but I like the idea of having the honor to look them in the eye and hear their last words when you kill them? However, I don't think we get much in the way of yield and megatonnage figures for the Institute reactor going critical, so it's quite possible that he (and many other Institute staff) may survive the initial blast and merely die from massive radiation, which would absolutely make getting shot in the face merciful by comparison.

Which brings up another point about bad plot devices: You absolutely don't need to make the Institute reactor go super-critical to defeat them. All you need to do is map their ventilation system. Instead of setting off a nuclear explosion, just set off a few backpacks of orange smoke bombs and have Vertibirds watching for smoke plumes in the area around CIT. Good old ground-penetrating radar would also do the business, but let's assume we need a low-tech solution. With the Institute's ventilation system mapped out, it would be trivial to inject chemical irritants or just cut off the incoming air, and the Institute would have the option of either retreating or surrendering.