Fallout VII - Vault-Tec calling

[Avilan the Grey]

Okay, but who says that besides Eden? Autumn mostly seems annoyed that you've tried to take control of the purifier, but it feels more like dueling political parties than good vs evil groups.

The Enclave is also evil by heritage, since the people who became the Enclave also were behind most horrible things before the war. Like Vault Tech experiments.

[Triaxx]

CQB is it's own thing, but you'll also note that when you're trying to defeat Body Armor, you need those tiny zippy rounds with tremendous energy to ensure penetration. Compare to the round it was developed to compete with, the 4.6mm from H&K. They're both designed to punch through armor at very, close range.

The .44 isn't designed for that. It's designed to give additional punch out of the .44 Special which underperformed. Unfortunately it's also notoriously hard to control because it's quite a lot of round primarily from a comparably small gun.

Most people I know of who do carry them, use them as bear guns.

[DigoDragon]

I'm honestly not entirely clear why the Enclave were actually the bad guys. I mean yes, Eden was clearly a total wacko, but Autumn was only trying to restore the world to the glory of the past. Though honestly, it's basically the same plan Maxson has in Fallout 4.

Eden did want you to plant a virus that would wipe out all non-pure humans. Not sure if Autumn was in on that plan too, but I think if he were, then it would be pretty straightforward evil (and in character for the Enclave).

Personally, I'd go farther and rewrite it so that Eden is against the virus to purify the human gene pool because he realizes it'll kill so many Americans, and what is America if not having roots in the concept of the "Melting pot" (mutants in this case, many being just humans with slightly differentiating DNA, much like your own character)? And then Autumn betrays Eden and goes to Do the thing. So Eden letting you go to stop the colonel (and self-destructing the base) makes a bit more sense.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

First off, I'd like to point the difference between a .223 and .44 is that the .223 round is twice as heavy and has twice as much powder (well, not quite, .44 magnum bullet is 33 grain while .223 is 45 grain, .223 is still heavier, due to length), despite being a smaller caliber, because it is a rifle round. So of COURSE it is going to do more damage, OUT OF A RIFLE. It won't do squat out of a revolver, though, simply because three quarters of the powder won't have a chance to burn before the bullet leaves the barrel, meaning a) you'll have muzzle flare from hell, b) you'll have fouling from hell, and c) it'll do jack squat to whatever you are shooting at. However, smaller sized pistol rounds, say 9mm, are effective at what they are supposed to do, but do not do more damage.

A common misconception is the caliber of the round is directly related to the damage it does, and that is not true. What is more important is the mass. Larger diameter is easier to get higher mass, but not always, and especially not when you are comparing pistol and rifle rounds.

The Colt Walker was a .44 revolver, whose primary job was to be capable of killing or stopping the HORSE the guy was riding in one shot. A 9mm round is going to be shrugged off by a horse unless you get really lucky with an aimed shot. You shoot a horse in the flank with a Colt Walker, the horse's hip is broken, and tumbles, taking rider with it. You shoot it with a 9mm, and it's not even going to feel it until it is calmed down.

Also, you fail to take into account mass into the kinetic energy equation. A bigger round is going to have more penetration, even if it is going slightly slower. The reason modern warfare has been scaling down calibres lately is because Power Armor doesn't exist in our world, therefore penetration is unnecessary. And it is significantly easier to move smaller ammo around. When you are a single person? Not so necessary. But try to keep 100,000 troops supplied with ammo, and you'll find a significant savings in switching from 7.62 to 5.56 because that's TONS less ammo you have to ship at a time, which means fewer shipments needed to supply the same number of rounds.

Also, there's a much higher emphasis these days on capture-not-kill for interrogation of prisoners, particularly when dealing with insurgencies and other terrorist organizations. And a .44 is GOING to kill them, unless you get REAL careful with a through-and-through wing shot. Which takes FAR more precision, and is directly contrary to the 'center of mass' doctrine any firearms user employs when in a combat situation. You can be shot by a 9mm and live. In fact, it's a bit difficult to get a 'kill shot' with a 9mm as it tends to not penetrate, which is precisely why the sidearm of choice for Feds is 9mm Glock, because the damn thing couldn't penetrate the layer of muscle around the rib cage, much less the rib cage itself, even with a direct miracle from... wherever miracles come from. Which means odds of a kill shot, unless you're specifically trying for one of the vulnerable targets in an aimed called shot, you've got a prisoner to interrogate, which is FAR more important to the Feds.

THAT is why calibers are smaller these days. Easier logistics, more likelihood of taking prisoners, and squad-based tactics. None of which are really concerns for one who wanders the Capital Wasteland.

For dealing with something like power armor? I'd want a high-powered 12.7mm round. Something like an M82 or similar. Because that's going to shrug off anything smaller.

[Triaxx]

Okay, first of all, NO. 33gr. wouldn't even fill a .44 if smashed completely flat. Grain refers to the weight of the projectile launched from the end of the gun. I have a box of 9mm sitting here that is 115gr. 45gr is a .22LR round. Remington brand .44 Special Target ammunition is 246gr.

Caliber is directly related but there are multiple factors at work. Ammo type, powder load, manufacturer, and even country of origin all have effects. For example, American ammunition tends to be loaded with more powder than other countries, for example, one of the world record .50 sniper shots was made using American ammo because it's slightly more powerful than the Canadian issued rounds. A very minimal amount but at mile plus ranges, every bit counts.

The Colt Walker is an interesting case, in that being a blackpowder revolver, even though it's listed as being .44, the actual bullet diameter had to be .454 in order to achieve a proper seal to fire. A modern .44 cartridge rattles a bit in the chamber because it's smaller around than the bullet you were having to ram in by use of the lever beneath the barrel. It's also very slightly heavier than a .50 Desert Eagle.

There are two doctrines for ammunition in a military environment. One is to use a heavier bullet where each shot is doing more damage, while the other is to use a lighter round more capable of penetrating armor, but that can be carried in greater quantity. Someone did the math here, and came up with 20 rounds of .308 being just over a pound, while 30 rounds of 5.56 is just under. I think I'd rather have 10 additional rounds for the same carry weight. On the other side of the equation, if you can make those 20 rounds count, you aren't spending as much ammo. (This is of course a logistical doctrine. The soldier's answer seems to universally be you never have enough.) Given the ability to ship Main Battle Tanks (upwards of 40 tons on the very small end) by sea and air, hauling a few tons of ammo around is child's play.

On the other hand, there's an old saying that to arrows, chain armor is a bunch of loosely connected holes. The same is true of kevlar armor to very small, very fast moving projectiles. There's a reason the heavy metal or ceramic inserts are called rifle plates. Kevlar can slow them somewhat but rifle rounds require a hard surface to bring them to a halt.

I'm pretty dubious about how many people the average soldier is trying to take alive. .44 has never been a military caliber, barring the Walker and Dragoon, mostly because it's extremely hard to control for even strong shooters, much less as a universal caliber. That said, Special Forces tend to prefer .45's, because they want what they shoot to go down and stay that way. As for 9mm Glock's, they're carrying those because they carry 17+1 rounds, are extremely reliable, and have the option for the Military/LEO only Glock 18 which has full-auto as an option. They're also very easy to carry concealed, and I have no doubt they have additional armament's in their vehicles the same way most officers have a full-size rifle or shotgun available for those occasions when a pistol will clearly not suffice.

The other side is that anyone can shoot a 9mm. Even if for example you've been shot in the arm, you can continue firing one handed, which is not necessarily something you can do with a larger caliber weapon. Even a 9mm without that second stabilizing hand is more than likely not going to hit anything.

[Caelestion]

Personally, I'd go farther and rewrite it so that Eden is against the virus to purify the human gene pool because he realizes it'll kill so many Americans, and what is America if not having roots in the concept of the "Melting pot" (mutants in this case, many being just humans with slightly differentiating DNA, much like your own character)? And then Autumn betrays Eden and goes to Do the thing. So Eden letting you go to stop the colonel (and self-destructing the base) makes a bit more sense.

F3's story is so wildly inconsistent in tone and narrative that almost any change you make would be a better one.

[Calemyr]

So, to celebrate finally getting a new graphics card, I'm playing a new run of FO4. It looks like it's going to be a fun one, a modded survival run.

Spoiler: Major Mods:

Show

Survival Options: Even set to their lowest values, survival needs deteriorate fast enough to disrupt gameplay. At their lowest, however, they're at least not too frustrating. Plus, 10 minute autosaves and transitional saves are worth it when the game has a history of just randomly crashing with no fanfare. Plus, I just really dislike the carry weight penalty when you're simultaneously saddled with the need for weighty items like food and ammo.

Increased Survival Damage: 3x damage to both the player and their enemies, making every hit count in either direction. It really keeps the gameplay quick and tense.

Journey: Enables fast travel in Survival, but only between connected settlements. This transforms settlement development from an unrelated side game into a critical aspect of gameplay.

Follower Revive System: Followers can revive each other (and you). You don't lose the game upon hitting 0 health, but are stuck sitting helplessly while your party tries to patch you up. If they die before you recover, the game's over. Dogmeat doesn't count for this, of course. You can set it so that allies require stimpacks to revive allies.

Legendary Mods (with DLC): Set to normal mode, so I can strip legendary mods from existing items and place them on gear I actually want to use. Unbalancingly powerful, perhaps, but it allows me to maintain a reliable load-out and still be excited to see legendary and unique loot drop.

Weapon Mods: Delta Elite pistol and Widow shotgun. Stylish and a little powerful without being overpowered.
Armor Mods: Bad-Ass Vault Dweller Long Coat and Modular Leather Armor (MLA). Again, stylish and effective but not too op.
Companion mods: Heather Casdin and Everyone's Best Friend. Heather and Dogmeat as well as a regular ally.

The end result is a game that is much easier where it was more tedious before and much harder where it is more fun now. The circumstances where followers can revive you before they get killed as well, but it adds the chance to pull a victory out of certain defeat, making brutal fights more fun and less frustrating. A four member party (Sole Survivor, Heather Casdin, Dogmeat, someone else) always strikes me as a good balance, enough people to feel like you're not being stupid (Two people in a deathworld like the Commonwealth? Suicidal overconfidence.) without tripping over each other.

To be honest, I think survival mode is the most bipolar design I've ever seen - a couple mechanical changes that make things more fun and exciting, and then a slew of other changes that suck the fun right out of it. A few mods to balance it out, however, and it's fast and fun. I don't know if it's cheatingly easy or balanced, but I don't really care. It's fun and that's the point of being a game.

The other noteworthy mod I included was Player Journal, which I'm challenging myself to add an entry to every time I sleep. I'm modeling it after the Survivalist's logs in New Vegas: Honest Hearts, as a veteran soldier who pretty much just wants to die but can't bring himself to until his family is sorted out. This version of Nate has a little bit of Watson from BBC's Sherlock in him - where it's not the war that torments him but the peace after it, and the wasteland is letting the fighter he truly is out to play.

Spoiler: Opening entry

Show

I remember yesterday. Yesterday I was Nate Marlowe. I was a veteran of the Anchorage, I was happily married to a brilliant and beautiful woman, I was the proud father of a little baby boy, and my biggest worry was giving a speech before a handful of people who had been through the same hell I had.

The only problem is that yesterday was 210 years ago. Yesterday, I didn't know what "hell" meant.

I don't know why exactly I'm posting this, to be honest. I'm just kinda curious what others might think of the setup, and if anyone has any ideas how to improve upon it.

[Triaxx]

Looks kind of interesting. A few pictures might be nice.

Anything to speed up survival is welcome.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, to celebrate finally getting a new graphics card, I'm playing a new run of FO4. It looks like it's going to be a fun one, a modded survival run.

Spoiler: Major Mods:

Show

Survival Options: Even set to their lowest values, survival needs deteriorate fast enough to disrupt gameplay. At their lowest, however, they're at least not too frustrating. Plus, 10 minute autosaves and transitional saves are worth it when the game has a history of just randomly crashing with no fanfare. Plus, I just really dislike the carry weight penalty when you're simultaneously saddled with the need for weighty items like food and ammo.

Increased Survival Damage: 3x damage to both the player and their enemies, making every hit count in either direction. It really keeps the gameplay quick and tense.

Journey: Enables fast travel in Survival, but only between connected settlements. This transforms settlement development from an unrelated side game into a critical aspect of gameplay.

Follower Revive System: Followers can revive each other (and you). You don't lose the game upon hitting 0 health, but are stuck sitting helplessly while your party tries to patch you up. If they die before you recover, the game's over. Dogmeat doesn't count for this, of course. You can set it so that allies require stimpacks to revive allies.

Legendary Mods (with DLC): Set to normal mode, so I can strip legendary mods from existing items and place them on gear I actually want to use. Unbalancingly powerful, perhaps, but it allows me to maintain a reliable load-out and still be excited to see legendary and unique loot drop.

Weapon Mods: Delta Elite pistol and Widow shotgun. Stylish and a little powerful without being overpowered.
Armor Mods: Bad-Ass Vault Dweller Long Coat and Modular Leather Armor (MLA). Again, stylish and effective but not too op.
Companion mods: Heather Casdin and Everyone's Best Friend. Heather and Dogmeat as well as a regular ally.

The end result is a game that is much easier where it was more tedious before and much harder where it is more fun now. The circumstances where followers can revive you before they get killed as well, but it adds the chance to pull a victory out of certain defeat, making brutal fights more fun and less frustrating. A four member party (Sole Survivor, Heather Casdin, Dogmeat, someone else) always strikes me as a good balance, enough people to feel like you're not being stupid (Two people in a deathworld like the Commonwealth? Suicidal overconfidence.) without tripping over each other.

To be honest, I think survival mode is the most bipolar design I've ever seen - a couple mechanical changes that make things more fun and exciting, and then a slew of other changes that suck the fun right out of it. A few mods to balance it out, however, and it's fast and fun. I don't know if it's cheatingly easy or balanced, but I don't really care. It's fun and that's the point of being a game.

The other noteworthy mod I included was Player Journal, which I'm challenging myself to add an entry to every time I sleep. I'm modeling it after the Survivalist's logs in New Vegas: Honest Hearts, as a veteran soldier who pretty much just wants to die but can't bring himself to until his family is sorted out. This version of Nate has a little bit of Watson from BBC's Sherlock in him - where it's not the war that torments him but the peace after it, and the wasteland is letting the fighter he truly is out to play.

Spoiler: Opening entry

Show

I remember yesterday. Yesterday I was Nate Marlowe. I was a veteran of the Anchorage, I was happily married to a brilliant and beautiful woman, I was the proud father of a little baby boy, and my biggest worry was giving a speech before a handful of people who had been through the same hell I had.

The only problem is that yesterday was 210 years ago. Yesterday, I didn't know what "hell" meant.

I don't know why exactly I'm posting this, to be honest. I'm just kinda curious what others might think of the setup, and if anyone has any ideas how to improve upon it.

This sounds REALLY awesome to me.

In particular:

Survival Options: I agree there needed to be a median here. Actual difficulty depends on how easy it is to 'automate' the production of what you need for food and medicines. You can already be a Water Baron yourself, with a dozen or so water purification plants at Goodsprings, but this also makes you start actually looking at the food crafting interface for something other than Adhesive. I don't know how easy it is to make antibiotics or other medicines you need to cure diseases/rads, but that's going to be the real lynchpin of this difficulty setting. Can you set up a steady supply in the mid to late game?

Increased Survival Damage: I really like this as well. On the one hand, you're taking relevant damage, especially if you aren't clanking around in power armor. On the other hand, you aren't shooting rubber bullets at people and doing relevant damage right back. It becomes a scenario where being ambushed is REALLY bad, but being able to set up an ambush is REALLY good. It can really punish going in 'loud and proud' if you haven't identified all the targets in the area, because someone can rip your arse off before you realize someone is doing it.

Journey: Yes. So much Yes. All the Yes. FINALLY, a decent use of Fast Travel to remove tedium without removing difficulty, and one that actually makes immersible sense as well. Kind of like the motorcycle fast travel system mod from FO3. This gives you a mechanical reason (other than Preston "Don't Pester Me" Garvey) to go out and establish settlements. Using them as a series of 'safehouses' withe resupply items handy can also dramatically reduce needing to fast-travel, especially if you have patrols/trade routes set up. Now if only you could dial the raider raids down to a reasonable level... or at least acknowledge that a fully walled base with rocket launcher and laser turrets is NOT going to be overrun by four or five raiders with pipe pistols and melee weapons...

Legendary Mods: I like this too. I wouldn't call it 'overpowered', because you still have to collect legendary mods to make the ones you want, but it does beat farming 10+ hours for 'that one weapon you actually want'. This is Fallout4, not Diablo3.

I also really like your character premise. The war veteran who was a little scared of how much he enjoyed the thrill of combat, and came home at least in part to run away from that. Set up with a white picket fence, wife and kid, and at LEAST one or two more rug-rats sure to come eventually, dealing with depression because of how boring and mundane the world is, but preferring it to the alternative... and now, he's dropped in another war-zone. His son has been kidnapped, and it's gotta be running around in the back of his mind that a baby in this hellscape doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell, and he's probably already gone. But it doesn't matter, not really. Because if he can't save Shawn... you can be damned sure he'll avenge him. He doesn't have the right to go join his wife until that is finished, no mater how much he wants to.

[Triaxx]

I didn't see Journey before. I agree, it's an awesome idea.

Legendary modding isn't overpowered, because so many legendary effects are total pants. 'Yay legendary!' Stalker. Insert expletive.

[Balmas]

You know, I wish my first encounter with super mutants hadn't been immediately after installing Mart's Mutant Mod.
Episode 6: Mutant Mashers

Hang on, how exactly is 7.62x51mm rare if you have an infinite supply of scrap and thus ammo?

It's not actually an infinite supply of scrap. I have to go out and look for things that could be turned into scrap. I will eventually hit a point where I've scrapped everything I can for scrap metal. I might have a lot, but it's not infinite. As such, I'm trying to mostly spend my scrap supply on things that are either super-expensive or super rare, like stimpaks and mini nukes.

I'm honestly not entirely clear why the Enclave were actually the bad guys. I mean yes, Eden was clearly a total wacko, but Autumn was only trying to restore the world to the glory of the past. Though honestly, it's basically the same plan Maxson has in Fallout 4.

Because it's easier to make an existing faction into Designated Villains than it is to actually figure out those complex things like giving your RPG characters a choice.

The Enclave are the bad guys because their idea of the "glories of the past" also include genetic purity untainted by radiation - meaning their future has no place for 99% of the Wasteland's population.

In the past, yes. However, all of the leadership of the Enclave died thirty years ago; why would the survivors persist in a failed idea? There's so many ways that Bethesda could have taken it from Fallout 2. Imagine a Fallout 3 where the Enclave is fractured into people who want to admit new blood so they're not as inbred, vs. people who think they should just stay genetically pure, and the player can come in and meddle with that and choose what they want to do.

The Enclave is also evil by heritage, since the people who became the Enclave also were behind most horrible things before the war. Like Vault Tech experiments.

Kinda simplistic reasoning there, I think. You don't inherit evil; I'm not evil just because my ancestors oppressed French peasants a few centuries ago. Now, the F3 Enclave have some blood on their hands if you look at terminal entries, but that doesn't actually translate much to the real world.

[factotum]

Kinda simplistic reasoning there, I think. You don't inherit evil; I'm not evil just because my ancestors oppressed French peasants a few centuries ago.

But that's not quite the same situation. The Enclave is a continuously-functioning organisation that existed before the war and has carried on ever since. Unless your ancestors belonged to an evil organisation and you also belong to the same evil organisation you can't derive one situation from the other.

[DigoDragon]

In the past, yes. However, all of the leadership of the Enclave died thirty years ago; why would the survivors persist in a failed idea? There's so many ways that Bethesda could have taken it from Fallout 2. Imagine a Fallout 3 where the Enclave is fractured into people who want to admit new blood so they're not as inbred, vs. people who think they should just stay genetically pure, and the player can come in and meddle with that and choose what they want to do.

Kinda like what they tried to do with the Brotherhood, between the "lets use our tech to help the capital wastelanders" versus the "nah let's just keep hording all the tech"? Except it didn't really go anywhere and you couldn't change anything. Wasted potential really.

[Calemyr]

This sounds REALLY awesome to me.

In particular:

Survival Options: I agree there needed to be a median here. Actual difficulty depends on how easy it is to 'automate' the production of what you need for food and medicines. You can already be a Water Baron yourself, with a dozen or so water purification plants at Goodsprings, but this also makes you start actually looking at the food crafting interface for something other than Adhesive. I don't know how easy it is to make antibiotics or other medicines you need to cure diseases/rads, but that's going to be the real lynchpin of this difficulty setting. Can you set up a steady supply in the mid to late game?

Increased Survival Damage: I really like this as well. On the one hand, you're taking relevant damage, especially if you aren't clanking around in power armor. On the other hand, you aren't shooting rubber bullets at people and doing relevant damage right back. It becomes a scenario where being ambushed is REALLY bad, but being able to set up an ambush is REALLY good. It can really punish going in 'loud and proud' if you haven't identified all the targets in the area, because someone can rip your arse off before you realize someone is doing it.

Journey: Yes. So much Yes. All the Yes. FINALLY, a decent use of Fast Travel to remove tedium without removing difficulty, and one that actually makes immersible sense as well. Kind of like the motorcycle fast travel system mod from FO3. This gives you a mechanical reason (other than Preston "Don't Pester Me" Garvey) to go out and establish settlements. Using them as a series of 'safehouses' withe resupply items handy can also dramatically reduce needing to fast-travel, especially if you have patrols/trade routes set up. Now if only you could dial the raider raids down to a reasonable level... or at least acknowledge that a fully walled base with rocket launcher and laser turrets is NOT going to be overrun by four or five raiders with pipe pistols and melee weapons...

Legendary Mods: I like this too. I wouldn't call it 'overpowered', because you still have to collect legendary mods to make the ones you want, but it does beat farming 10+ hours for 'that one weapon you actually want'. This is Fallout4, not Diablo3.

I also really like your character premise. The war veteran who was a little scared of how much he enjoyed the thrill of combat, and came home at least in part to run away from that. Set up with a white picket fence, wife and kid, and at LEAST one or two more rug-rats sure to come eventually, dealing with depression because of how boring and mundane the world is, but preferring it to the alternative... and now, he's dropped in another war-zone. His son has been kidnapped, and it's gotta be running around in the back of his mind that a baby in this hellscape doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell, and he's probably already gone. But it doesn't matter, not really. Because if he can't save Shawn... you can be damned sure he'll avenge him. He doesn't have the right to go join his wife until that is finished, no mater how much he wants to.

Yeah, it's going good so far. Haven't made it to Diamond City yet, but I'm making headway. Having to rationalize in my journal what I'm doing and why has done a good job of keeping my meta-gaming to a dull roar. Collecting Heather, for instance, was rationalized as trying to recruit a doctor for Sanctuary (based on her radio broadcast) and instead finding a kindred spirit - another scarred individual on walkabout simply because standing still offers too much time to think. This is also why she won't be leaving the party, unlike the regular followers, as downtime isn't kind to her. It's also proven a bit funny, as I blame Sturgis for some of my more questionable settlement design choices, such as giving the Long family a house and converting the living room into a sort of speakeasy and naming the place "The Longhouse". I can see why he'd do it to pull the couple out of their PTSD, but I also think he was being a bit of a troll. (Making Marcy Long into a Magnolia-esque lounge singer with Singing Settlers is just gravy, but I think Jun would honestly do well as a bartender.)

Legendary Mods on its own isn't too bad, especially with the Normal setting that makes legendaries merely a transferable feature, but sometimes balance goes straight out the window with certain combinations. Combining a shotgun with the Explosive legendary, for instance, results in a flat-out evil little rocket launcher, and Spray 'n' Pray provides a reliable (and reasonably cheap) means of obtaining one. Putting Unending (bottomless magazines) on a Gatling Laser (assuming you have at least two fusion cores on you at any given time) literally gives you infinite ammunition. Having 7 Sentinel legendaries (5 armor pieces, headgear, and underarmor) literally gives you 100% damage reduction when you stand still. Having furious or a damage per attack mod (such as the wounding mod on Pickman's blade) on a ripper is just... brutal. I'm a little ashamed to admit I'm not above any of these exploits. You can do any of them without the mod, but it's much easier to do with it.

Oh, yeah, I also found a mod called Wastelander Energy Shields which allows you to craft Halo-esque regenerating shields. They don't resist much before needing to recharge (~60 damage at the moment), so dangerous encounters remain dangerous, but it keeps minor threats from being unduly expensive.

[Triaxx]

Wounding on a submachine gun means you can kill way over leveled enemies. Going into Nuka-world at level 4 with one means you can kill just about all the enemies.

Also, Balmas latest episode really highlights why I avoid unified ammo loads. If you're relying on just one type and burn it all in your automatic, then you're in deep trouble. Glad he noticed.

[Calemyr]

Wounding on a submachine gun means you can kill way over leveled enemies. Going into Nuka-world at level 4 with one means you can kill just about all the enemies.

Also, Balmas latest episode really highlights why I avoid unified ammo loads. If you're relying on just one type and burn it all in your automatic, then you're in deep trouble. Glad he noticed.

I don't much like automatic weapons in the game, with the exception of the Unlimited Gatling Laser. Reduced damage per shot plus higher ammunition requirements equal much less practicality.

Wounding in general, however, is just pretty horrific. 25 points of stacking, irresistible damage per hit is bad. Put it on an automatic weapon (submachine gun or ripper) and things die fast. Even better, however, is putting it on a shotgun. That's 25 points of stacking, irresistible damage per pellet, with 4-8 pellets per shell. I honestly don't know which one to use on my Widow shotgun, Wounding or Explosive. Explosive is satisfying, but a Wounding shotgun can take down mirelurk queens and power armored brutes in seconds.

Usually, I equip my characters with a semi-automatic 10mm pistol, a shotgun, and a melee weapon (usually a knife or light sword). That allows me to concern myself with only two ammo types (plus fusion cores), and the weapons and ammo are all reasonably light weight. Encumbrance is my worst enemy in FO4, so a lightweight but versatile loadout is really handy.

That said, however... an automatic pipe pistol with wounding could be particularly scary, as .38 ammo is plentiful and otherwise pretty useless, so you get a lot of damage and minimal cost.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, a pipe pistol is what I found, and it was an absolute beast. I find getting close enough to apply wounding with a shotgun is suicidal, since anything tough enough for me to need to kill it with bleed damage, is going to kill me for getting that close. On an SMG though, I can vary the length of the burst and apply just as much as I want.

[Mutazoia]

I don't much like automatic weapons in the game, with the exception of the Unlimited Gatling Laser. Reduced damage per shot plus higher ammunition requirements equal much less practicality.

Wounding in general, however, is just pretty horrific. 25 points of stacking, irresistible damage per hit is bad. Put it on an automatic weapon (submachine gun or ripper) and things die fast. Even better, however, is putting it on a shotgun. That's 25 points of stacking, irresistible damage per pellet, with 4-8 pellets per shell. I honestly don't know which one to use on my Widow shotgun, Wounding or Explosive. Explosive is satisfying, but a Wounding shotgun can take down mirelurk queens and power armored brutes in seconds.

Usually, I equip my characters with a semi-automatic 10mm pistol, a shotgun, and a melee weapon (usually a knife or light sword). That allows me to concern myself with only two ammo types (plus fusion cores), and the weapons and ammo are all reasonably light weight. Encumbrance is my worst enemy in FO4, so a lightweight but versatile loadout is really handy.

That said, however... an automatic pipe pistol with wounding could be particularly scary, as .38 ammo is plentiful and otherwise pretty useless, so you get a lot of damage and minimal cost.

Personally, I equip one close, one medium, and one long range weapon. So a 10mm pistol (or the fist pistol I find with a silencer), a shotgun, and a rifle. But then, I tend to go for the stealth route, and kill as many mobs as I can before they know I'm there/find me.

An explosive shotgun is just asking for trouble, since you will usually be in range of your own explosions by the time you have to use the shotgun. Personally, if I use an automatic, it's either spray-n-pray, or I'll equip one with "kneecapper", as there is nothing like blowing the legs off a charging legendary deathclaw at level 5, and then plinking it to death as it lays helplessly on the ground.

I tend to use .38 ammo as caps. Early game, it's more plentiful than caps, and you will be getting just as much 10mm ammo to go with your free pistol anyway. By mid-game, you are usually using anything but .38 ammo (.308's, 10mm, shotguns, and maybe .45s) and the .38 always trades for caps 1-1.

[Triaxx]

I'm always partial to plasma infused over explosive, except perhaps on a sniper rifle, but in that case it doesn't really matter. Of course plasma-infused also makes it easier to find the corpses.

Early on, I really, really like the Pipe Revolver Rifle with a scope as a sniper rifle. It seems to be slightly more efficient than the bolt-action Pipe Rifles, and has easier to find ammo at that point.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yea, Explosive seems nice at first on a shotgun, especially with Demo Expert to increase damage, but that also increases range, and shotguns are CQB weapons, so odds are you kill yourself with back-blast, at least in my experience. Give me Wounding or Plasma-Infused/Freezing or, potentially, Kneecapping (shotguns are almost as much fun as automatic weapons with Kneecapping) any day of the week.

Spray n Pray is a waste of caps. A pipe pistol set up as an automatic weighs less, uses cheaper and more conveniently found ammo, and has the exact same damage. You can farm the legendary effect from the legendary radroach in the sewers next to where you meet Preston Garvey. SMG's in general are really bad weapons, if any weapon needs to be rebalanced, it's them. But that's an old complaint I won't rehash here.

In other news, I'm working on trying to bring EVE back to my F:NV instance and seeing if it can handle it without the excessive lag demonstrated in my LP now that I have... tweaked a few things.

[Calemyr]

Personally, I equip one close, one medium, and one long range weapon. So a 10mm pistol (or the fist pistol I find with a silencer), a shotgun, and a rifle. But then, I tend to go for the stealth route, and kill as many mobs as I can before they know I'm there/find me.

An explosive shotgun is just asking for trouble, since you will usually be in range of your own explosions by the time you have to use the shotgun. Personally, if I use an automatic, it's either spray-n-pray, or I'll equip one with "kneecapper", as there is nothing like blowing the legs off a charging legendary deathclaw at level 5, and then plinking it to death as it lays helplessly on the ground.

I tend to use .38 ammo as caps. Early game, it's more plentiful than caps, and you will be getting just as much 10mm ammo to go with your free pistol anyway. By mid-game, you are usually using anything but .38 ammo (.308's, 10mm, shotguns, and maybe .45s) and the .38 always trades for caps 1-1.

By and large, unless I'm heading to a mission where obscene ranges are viable options (Libertalia, for instance), I use my pistol for sniping. It's been very effective in most situations. I can usually clear out places well before the fight starts, and still have the mobility to deal with ambushes. I love a good silenced sniper rifle but, when weight is critical, it's the first to be tossed overboard. Well, second after a heavy dakka weapon like a minigun or a fat man.

Explosive is risky. Very much so, especially when you're using multiple followers (as I am now). However, I tend to find it too fun to pass up. It's particularly effective on the Widow, which has a flechette ammunition mod, which gives the pellets better range and tighter grouping. Not an option for melee range, obviously, but when a dozen heavily armed raiders pop out of a quiet alley, a dph mod is extremely effective and Explosive is wonderfully destructive. At the moment, since I haven't met Cricket yet, I'm using a Freezing mod instead. Still wonderfully effective, renamed the weapon "Frigid Damsel" after the spell from Valkyrie Profile. Never considered Kneecapper - that would be wonderfully effective against deathclaws, but honestly I'd rather just kill them. It's quicker and cleaner that way. Well, not cleaner, per se... Not when the Explosive mod is in play, anyway.

As for ammo, yeah, I usually stockpile it for bartering, particularly early on. The idea of a wounding automatic pipe weapon would be using cheap and plentiful ammo at a point when better ammo is expensive and scarce, and the actual weapon damage isn't as important with a wounding mod as the rounds per second. Haven't tried it myself, but it would be a pretty easy way to take on southern enemies (including mirelurk queens) at very low levels. Pickman's quest isn't that hard, and getting Cait (AKA the Irish Skeleton Key) is even easier, so reliable access to a Wounding mod isn't a major obstacle.

Also, a couple bits of headcanon that will be having an effect on my game:

Spoiler

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* While Nate is a big fan of Grognak (a fantasy setting where a warrior gets to adventure without the gore or moral quandries of reality), it's Nora who was a fan of the Silver Shroud, who represents justice when the legal system fails. (Easy to imagine a lawyer having getting frustrated with the legal system, especially a Fallout version of it.) Ergo, since I'm playing as Nate, his enthusiasm for roleplaying as the Shroud is tied to his memories of his late wife.

[Triaxx]

I'm kind of okay with Spray and Pray. It's not the best legendary, but also not quite so hilariously expensive as say Partystarter.

I can honestly say I've never seen a legendary in that spot. I always find the one in the backroom of the Drive-in though.

That's another reason for the Pipe Revolver Sniper, it's very light compared to the conventional one.

[Calemyr]

I'm kind of okay with Spray and Pray. It's not the best legendary, but also not quite so hilariously expensive as say Partystarter.

I can honestly say I've never seen a legendary in that spot. I always find the one in the backroom of the Drive-in though.

That's another reason for the Pipe Revolver Sniper, it's very light compared to the conventional one.

In truth, I feel Spray 'n' Pray is a very good weapon, being a silenced, fully upgraded SMG with a high damage mod, available at a reasonable price pretty early (assuming you can run into Cricket, often in Bunker Hill or Vault 81). You can buy it with limited trouble a good 20 levels before you could build an equivalent one yourself. SMGs, in general, suck, but SnP is the best of the bunch. As I said, however, I don't like automatics and their ammo-chugging ways, so that's some darn faint praise.

[Mando Knight]

More Creation Club items arrived today, and that means F4SE and derivative mods are broken again. On the other hand, if your Big Guns weren't big enough, the BFG itself is now available, along with the classic DOOM armor (and chrome and swamp camo paintjobs for power armor, the former of which is currently free).

[Caelestion]

Because that's what the Creation Club needs - over-priced single weapons and armour and endless recolours.

[Rynjin]

More Creation Club items arrived today, and that means F4SE and derivative mods are broken again.

This wouldn't piss me off so much if I could opt out of updates for FO4, but it won't let me make updates opt-in only like some games.

[Mudpitmissfit]

More Creation Club items arrived today, and that means F4SE and derivative mods are broken again. On the other hand, if your Big Guns weren't big enough, the BFG itself is now available, along with the classic DOOM armor (and chrome and swamp camo paintjobs for power armor, the former of which is currently free).

This is why I have been and will continue to run steam in offline mode, I have neither the patience nor the SSD space to be bothered with Bethesda's latest micro transaction BS.

[Mando Knight]

I have neither the patience nor the SSD space to be bothered with Bethesda's latest micro transaction BS.

Fortunately, Bethesda changed how the PC version of the game handles new Creation Club content, so the archives won't be automatically downloaded before you purchase the items anymore. The Xbox and PS4 versions still function the same way as the first wave of CC items, though, due to technical restrictions.

[DigoDragon]

There's also a popular mod that removes the Creation Club ad blurb from the main screen when you start the game. Sometimes its the little things in life that are nice. :3

Fortunately, Bethesda changed how the PC version of the game handles new Creation Club content, so the archives won't be automatically downloaded before you purchase the items anymore.

Wait, you mean that earlier, the stuff you got to pay for is already loaded on your hard drive before buying? Wow that's a bad idea. I imagine anyone with some mod knowledge got a bunch of free mods.

[Calemyr]

I won't know how well it worked until after I get back home, but what I did is set updates to happen only when I play the game, and then use F4SE to start the game. My hope is that skipping the launcher will skip the update as well, as it will really tick me off if my game is rendered unplayable 5 days out of 30 because somebody saw an avenue to make more money and they're too busy defending their choice to realize that the way they're doing it remains detrimental to gameplay as well as insulting.

I have to admit I'm a little interested in the Doom items, as that was a superb game with the visceral speed and aggression I want from FO4 baked in. The catch is, I'm absolutely certain the pricepoint is as insulting as ever. 4-5 dollars might almost be a worthy price IF it had the armor, the gun, some music, possibly a Doom themed encounter to collect them in (or, hell, just a put it beside a gravestone with a rabbit engraved on it, that would be wonderful), and enough modding capacity to compete with the high end of what you can get for vanilla/DLC gear. Maybe crib a page from Persona 5 and script the soundtrack to change when you've got the doom armor equipped. Imagine a gang of raiders swarming out of some back alley and suddenly that metal guitar riff starts up. I would have to start taking psycho just to get the SS to yell "F***IN' KILL!" as the music starts. Anything less... would just be impolite. Junkie-era Cait would be telling me ease up on the chem use.

Instead, if the original batch is any indication, I assume we'll be paying ~$5 for armor that has no mod capacity and goes from gamebreaking to obsolete around level 13 (Armorer 2). We'll be paying ~$2 for a weapon with a similar life span and either zero mod ability, a cheap copy/paste of the tesla rifle from Automatron, or an extremely rare/heavy/expensive ammunition type. Probably all 3. And it will be dropped with, at a maximum effort, some random ghoul encounter around a dungeon chest (not even retextured silver to look like the Doom Marine's coffin) and an instant quest to tell you where to find it.

I mean, honestly, that's probably what really angers me about this whole thing. The losing the Script Extender a few days every month will be exasperating, yes, but it's for the sake of content that is over-priced, under-developed, and poorly presented. I can forgive one of the three, Bethesda, your pick, but it seems you're going for the hat trick.

Wait, you mean that earlier, the stuff you got to pay for is already loaded on your hard drive before buying? Wow that's a bad idea. I imagine anyone with some mod knowledge got a bunch of free mods.

The entire thing is a parade of bad ideas, most of it in terms of presentation, with a whole lot of unintended consequence mixed in for added fun.