The Elder Scrolls XIII: Born Under a Certain Sign

[Kareeah_Indaga]

e: Wrong thread, sorry.

But when I am already here. What fun quests would suit the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood outside of their questline?

For Skyrim, or in general? For Skyrim an obvious one would be to go establish more Sanctuaries and maybe find appropriate individuals to be the new Speakers of the Black Hand. (Actually the last would work for Oblivion too, considering...) Traveling to Black Marsh to start the Shadowscale school back up would be a fun one I think; I really want to know how the whole practice of Shadowscales started and that seems like a good opportunity to slip that history in.

[veti]

Balmora's Fighter guild had you clear out a cellar full of Skeevers.

I don't know if you played the game in translation or something, but in my edition those were rats.

Morrowind also had skill requirements for guild membership and at least one mod imposed faction membership requirements on various trainers/traders.

The vanilla game had faction membership (and even rank, come to think of it) requirements for some services, but then even Skyrim has that. For instance, you can't get training from Eorlund without being a companion, can't access fences without being in the TG. (So it's pretty well impossible to make a profit from being a non-guild thief. That's a powerful monopoly, for an organisation that's meant to be in such bad shape.)

[Kareeah_Indaga]

So it's pretty well impossible to make a profit from being a non-guild thief.

Not completely:

--Steal regents, hides, gems, or other crafting material
--craft something out of them
--Sell and profit.

[DigoDragon]

can't access fences without being in the TG. (So it's pretty well impossible to make a profit from being a non-guild thief.

The stolen flag is one of the dumbest implementations in the game. I can understand the flag on something of high value, as it possibly could be identified ("Sorry, this emerald necklace has the inscription of the Silver-Blood house. I can't buy this off you.") but to flag an apple I pick off a bandit camp in Whiterun Hold, after I kill all "witnesses") and then try to sell it to someone in Riften and they refuse because stolen? How would the merchant know?? XD

Though it's amusing that a horse can snitch on you. Even if also silly.

[Triaxx]

Doesn't one of the speech perks let you sell illegal goods? Or has modded got me in it's grip?

[Spore]

(So it's pretty well impossible to make a profit from being a non-guild thief. That's a powerful monopoly, for an organisation that's meant to be in such bad shape.)

You do forget the Speech perks don't you? Fence is pretty far off but it is not impossible. Also fences don't have anything to do with the Thieves' guild. Presumably any thief can sell there but they only take TG members because it's safer. Maybe they'd fence for anyone, who knows? Enthir for example is not even part of the Thieves' guild. If you attack him the Collge gets angry but the Thieves' guild doesn't care.

I know that is taking it pretty far but they could've taken Enthir and added Thieves' Guild to his factions easily.

[Triaxx]

I think the reason he's not is so he's not hostile while working with Karliah.

[DigoDragon]

Doesn't one of the speech perks let you sell illegal goods? Or has modded got me in it's grip?

No, you remember right. Vanilla Speech has a perk for fencing stolen goods, but you gotta go pretty far up the tree (I think it's the 5th perk in the chain). I've never bothered taking Speech perks in any "vanilla" playthrough. They just didn't seem useful, as most simply translate to "get more money" and I've never had a financial hardship in Skyrim. Maybe it gets better in a perk mod like Ordinator?

[Spore]

Maybe it gets better in a perk mod like Ordinator?

No. It is still the fourth perk after having Speech 70. But it useful if you use the Speech tree in its entirety in Ordinator. Sleeping with 50000 Gold lets your invest the gold into perks with the final perk there. So all the stolen rings and gems are going towards a good cause then.

A good chunk of the tree is bardic stuff, talking with animals and helping with shouts.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, some of the Ordinator shout perks are extremely useful. One restores health and stamina equal to the recharge time of the shout used, so you can use one in mid-fight and get a health boost, which is awesome. I believe shouting also gives Speech XP.

One of the perks also quadruples chance of intimidate succeeding, which is awesome. So speech is no longer the one skill you never spend perks on any more.

[factotum]

The stolen flag is one of the dumbest implementations in the game.

It was worse in Morrowind, where it didn't record any sort of ownership details of a stolen object. Example: I steal an object from merchant A and sell it somewhere else. At some later stage I steal an identical object from a different merchant and try to sell it to merchant A, only for her to say that the item is her stolen item and she calls the guards! Quite apart from how she could tell it's a stolen item in the first place, it wasn't stolen from *her*, so it makes no sense for her to say it was.

[DigoDragon]

Sleeping with 50000 Gold lets your invest the gold into perks with the final perk there.

That... makes sense...?

Now I'm picturing a lot of high-level rich nobles with sleep deprivation who don't want to lose any more money from a power nap.

It was worse in Morrowind, where it didn't record any sort of ownership details of a stolen object. Example: I steal an object from merchant A and sell it somewhere else. At some later stage I steal an identical object from a different merchant and try to sell it to merchant A, only for her to say that the item is her stolen item and she calls the guards! Quite apart from how she could tell it's a stolen item in the first place, it wasn't stolen from *her*, so it makes no sense for her to say it was.

Okay, that is kind of worse, yeah. XD

[Yuki Akuma]

That... makes sense...?

The player character is the Dragonborn.

[Triaxx]

Okay, and suddenly my brain plays that 70's porn music, followed by some woman using Ron Jeremy's name like a dragon shout.

[veti]

It was worse in Morrowind, where it didn't record any sort of ownership details of a stolen object. Example: I steal an object from merchant A and sell it somewhere else. At some later stage I steal an identical object from a different merchant and try to sell it to merchant A, only for her to say that the item is her stolen item and she calls the guards! Quite apart from how she could tell it's a stolen item in the first place, it wasn't stolen from *her*, so it makes no sense for her to say it was.

Hah. Just because you lost track and tried to sell back the Grand Soul Gem she recognised from the jagged scratch on the bottom, now you're trying to blame it on the game...?

Seriously, I don't agree that that's "worse". Unless you play a total kleptomaniac, it's not that hard to remember what you've stolen from merchants. With the "sell things for more than you bought them" bug, "stealing from merchants" is totally redundant anyway.

[Caelestion]

Okay, that is kind of worse, yeah. XD

That one's more to do with technical limitations (rather than by design) and if you know what you're doing with TESAME, you can even clear the STLN tags out of your save-file.

[Temotei]

One of the perks also quadruples chance of intimidate succeeding, which is awesome. So speech is no longer the one skill you never spend perks on any more.

It's double chance with one perk, and the second perk makes you never fail at intimidation (in addition to the perk's other benefits).

[factotum]

Hah. Just because you lost track and tried to sell back the Grand Soul Gem she recognised from the jagged scratch on the bottom, now you're trying to blame it on the game...?

Except I didn't sell back her own item to her. As I said in the original post, I'd already used that item elsewhere. The one she claimed was stolen from her was stolen from an entirely different merchant. You can try it yourself in Morrowind if you don't believe me.

[Triaxx]

Ah, right. Forgot about how those perks worked. Intimidation is hilarious though.

[kraftcheese]

On the topic, does anyone know if they've made a version of Ordinator for Special Edition?

[Temotei]

On the topic, does anyone know if they've made a version of Ordinator for Special Edition?

They have.

[veti]

Does anyone know of a Skyrim mod that does - something about the "compulsory" quests? By which I mean, the ones that throw themselves under your feet and you have to either act way out of character, or go far out of your way, to avoid?

I'm thinking of "House of Horrors", "Waking Nightmare", and worst of all "Blood on the Ice". I detest "Blood on the Ice", it's so... procedural. It barely even involves using skills. Yet in every playthrough, on my second or third visit to Windhelm - there it is, and how can I not do something about it?

I'm not sure why these quests get to me so much (apart from the repetition, obviously). I think it's the sheer inevitability of them. I've come to dread visiting Windhelm; I'll put it off as long as possible, make my visit as short as possible, and do everything possible to avoid passing through the city. In Markarth I'll carefully avoid walking up the main street - fortunately there are a couple of alternative routes - because if I don't talk to that idiot vigilant, he'll just stand outside that house forever. I wish the quest would take a hint, and just delete the fool - say, a day after I first enter the city, if I haven't spoken to him by then.

I think my avoidance of these quests is approaching the point where it could fairly be called a phobia. Is there a cure?

[Balmas]

I think my avoidance of these quests is approaching the point where it could fairly be called a phobia. Is there a cure?

I don’t know how to
Say no to this

But my gosh, they're all so helpless
And my quest log's saying, “hell, yes”

[Triaxx]

What? I adore Blood on the Ice. What's better than stopping a murderer by running up and kill moving them as they try to commit their crime? Vigilante Justice Piledriver is hilarious.

[veti]

I don’t know how to
Say no to this

But my gosh, they're all so helpless
And my quest log's saying, “hell, yes”

Yep, I've already got "The Choice is Yours". It's good as far as it goes, but it doesn't go nearly far enough for me. I'd like something like:
'Blood on the Ice' - should only start if you enter Windhelm between midnight and 6 a.m.. (Seriously, at 3 p.m. it's stretching credulity to believe the body has been lying there since dawn and has only just been noticed. And "did the bystanders see anything?" becomes an even dumber question.)
'House of Horrors' - give me some time after I first enter the city to talk to the vigilant and agree to help him. If I don't, then just delete him. (He could have gone in alone, or found some other sap, or just walked away. I don't know, I don't care. Get him out of my game.)
'Waking Nightmare' - if I leave and come back more than a few days later, let Earandur be gone and the whole town back to normal. Assume he found someone else. (Indeed, this general rule could be applied to almost all the Daedric quests, and quite a few others. Considering how many people claim to be retired adventurers or sidekicks, why am I the only one who ever does anydamnthing? If someone is actively trying to find an adventurer, they should be assumed to have succeeded within, say, 3 days of me turning them down.)

[Caelestion]

It would be better to have the option to turn them down and have the game recognise that, rather than the game closing off quests silently due to your inaction.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Yeah, having a time limit on gaining quests is a terrible idea. What if it's your first playthrough and you don't find it at first? You'd totally miss out on the quest altogether!

[factotum]

Yeah, having a time limit on gaining quests is a terrible idea. What if it's your first playthrough and you don't find it at first? You'd totally miss out on the quest altogether!

While I agree that having an arbitrary time limit on a quest is not good, I don't have a problem with quests being gated off for other reasons--e.g. I have to be already known to the Vigilants of Stendarr before the guy in the House of Horrors quest will trust me to go in there with him. If that means I can never do that with a particular character due to having annoyed the Vigilants, no probs, I know better with the next character. However, if the quest is time-gated I might miss it and never know it's there in the first place, which I don't like.

[Triaxx]

I always prefer them only being available at certain times of the day, as is you can enter a house and wake up quest giver to get quests, instead of the face stabbing you deserve for breaking in.

[DigoDragon]

What? I adore Blood on the Ice. What's better than stopping a murderer by running up and kill moving them as they try to commit their crime? Vigilante Justice Piledriver is hilarious.

Same here! First time I played through it I nearly failed to stop the killer. I was in the wrong area, I overheard screaming, and then fired a hail-mary arrow at long range (with a paralyzing poison) that just barely struck the killer in the leg. I run over to protect the victim and Lydia came in with her hammer. It was a legit white knuckle moment. ^^;