One Piece V: Black Leg Wedding

[Tvtyrant]

Krieg I will grant you, but honestly the others just were there to show how far luffy still had to go. Against magellan, like you said, dude had been fighting his own gauntlet of deadly opponents and luffy with the help from others was barely able to survive the combat. He basically delayed the inevitable at best. Same for akianu, its not like luffy was in any condition to fight him at the time. I think TECHNICALLY the same could go for lightning lad as he had obliterated most of luffys crew by the time they fought. Though it was less a fight for him to defeat the strawhats than him fairly casually shutting them all down iirc. So its not like he started the fight tired or somewhat injured.

And of course this is all pretty standard shonen stuff. Virtually no hero gets to go fight the end game boss while fully rested. Naruto had to fight for a full day against god awful numbers of zetsus, reincarnated super ninja, tobito, madera, etc etc etc. All before finally getting to fight with kaguya. I didnt follow bleach very well but I imagine it was similar there. He didnt just wake up after a relaxing weeks vacation and a full nights sleep then teleport to ywach for the fight. Its honestly why I think luffy would win a straight up rematch with katakuri. Luffy being fulled rested, fighting someone he now knows the skills of and how to counter them, with no outside interference or exhausting couple days of endless fighting and injuries. It wouldnt be a stomp, far from it. But I still think in the end it would be decisively a win for luffy.

Agreed, Luffy would win for sure. Narrative wise it undermines his growth for him not to. That was why the Lucci fight the first time was so surprising, having Luffy lose twice in a row was very startling.

[lord_khaine]

Its honestly why I think luffy would win a straight up rematch with katakuri. Luffy being fulled rested, fighting someone he now knows the skills of and how to counter them, with no outside interference or exhausting couple days of endless fighting and injuries. It wouldnt be a stomp, far from it. But I still think in the end it would be decisively a win for luffy.

He would also be missing the resolve bonus that allowed him to get up first after the double knockout.
Remember that is the extent of his victory against Dogtooth.

Agreed, Luffy would win for sure. Narrative wise it undermines his growth for him not to. That was why the Lucci fight the first time was so surprising, having Luffy lose twice in a row was very startling.

Did he not only beat Luffy once?

And Crocodille did leave Luffy for dead twice before he finally went down. It should not have been a surprise.

[Tvtyrant]

Did he not only beat Luffy once?

And Crocodille did leave Luffy for dead twice before he finally went down. It should not have been a surprise.

Yeah, but it came right after getting beaten by Aojiki. It was kind of shocking because at that point he had beaten Crocodile largely by fluke, gotten smashed by an admiral and then beaten by some carpenters.

He levels up between his fights with Lucci, so him winning was the obvious outcome. Luffy leveled up similarly here so a rematch (which I doubt happens) is unlikely. If anyone is going to fight Katakuri I think it is Zoro, since he is always one step behind Luffy.

[deuterio12]

Didn't the one time that Zoro and Luffy fought, they actualy were pretty tied up? And also in that final battle before the two year skip, the one against the cyborg pirate king, Zoro was the last man standing from the straw hat pirates crew after being transfered all the pain Luffy had suffered.

Still all Zoro has are his sword skillz so he's perfectly fine being Luffy's subordinate.

That reminds me I really miss Zoro. Here's hoping he gets some chance to shine in the next arc, in particular since Sanji got to be the big badass protagonist for this arc.

[Lord of the Helms]

It was kind of shocking because at that point he had beaten Crocodile largely by fluke

Nope, he beat Crocodile because he was the superior hand-to-hand combatant and had figured out how to make it a brawl by that point. Luffy dominated Croc in the last round of their fight almost as much as he did Doffy while in Gear Fourth. That's not what I'd call a fluke. In fact, later at Marineford, Crocodile backed down from a confrontation against Luffy because he realized it would not go well for him.

[Traab]

He would also be missing the resolve bonus that allowed him to get up first after the double knockout.
Remember that is the extent of his victory against Dogtooth.



Did he not only beat Luffy once?

And Crocodille did leave Luffy for dead twice before he finally went down. It should not have been a surprise.

Yeah but he wouldnt really NEED the resolve bonus as he wouldnt go 15 rounds with katakuri slowly figuring out how to fight him first after having had a really really bad couple of days. (Im honestly not sure how much time passed in this arc between say, fighting cracker and defeating katakuri)

[Kato]

That reminds me I really miss Zoro. Here's hoping he gets some chance to shine in the next arc, in particular since Sanji got to be the big badass protagonist for this arc.

Yeah, me too. But I guess Oda has realized the crew has gotten too big to give everyone enough time all the time, so he had to split up the teams and I feel will continue to do so in some way for most future arcs.

Nope, he beat Crocodile because he was the superior hand-to-hand combatant and had figured out how to make it a brawl by that point. Luffy dominated Croc in the last round of their fight almost as much as he did Doffy while in Gear Fourth. That's not what I'd call a fluke. In fact, later at Marineford, Crocodile backed down from a confrontation against Luffy because he realized it would not go well for him.

Well, in crocs defense, he had been lazy for a while and in his prime could have probably held up better or won. At least in Alabasta.


Also, I really wonder what the final battle will be like.. Or let's say the large big arc. But at this point it seems impossible to guess.

[Traab]

Yeah, me too. But I guess Oda has realized the crew has gotten too big to give everyone enough time all the time, so he had to split up the teams and I feel will continue to do so in some way for most future arcs.



Well, in crocs defense, he had been lazy for a while and in his prime could have probably held up better or won. At least in Alabasta.


Also, I really wonder what the final battle will be like.. Or let's say the large big arc. But at this point it seems impossible to guess.

If it doesnt have at LEAST three "Oh &^%$&^%$"!!! Moments where some huge twist appears with little warning or notable foreshadowing, I will be annoyed. Thats three each for good or evil. Like Big Mom showing up to lay waste to luffy and everything he holds dear out of nowhere, countered by rayliegh showing up with an elite force drawn from the one piece storyline (We know he and shakey have been following his career, it wouldnt be too far out of the bathtub for him to pull something like that) letting us see how his friends and allies have grown since the good old days when haki wasnt even a thing that existed so far as we knew. Turning the event from the king of the pirates establishing his rank by wrecking the marines, to a full blown insurrection of lord knows how many nations in the world government. Give us a solid betrayal of the straw hats by someone important, matched by a betrayal of a portion of the marines who are sick and tired of akianu and his brutal justice or who just like luffy more. Bring in sabo and dragon along with the revolutionary army realizing this is their best chance to strike a decisive blow against the government and of course having their own personal stake in the fight. "This is our best shot to cripple the military guys, we gotta be there to back up the 5th emperor!"

[Cizak]

Wasnt a big part of his early appearance revolving around how they couldnt be sure if he was a paramecia or a logia? I remember there was some discussion on that at least.

No, that was never a thing. What happened was that when Jinbe reveals the name of Katakuri's devil fruit, in the initial magazine release he refers to it as a Logia. In the later volume release, his line was changed to say "special Paramecia". So in-universe canon, no one has ever thought the Moci Mochi no Mi is a Logia fruit.

What was a mystery, to both the characters and the readers, was how Katakuri evaded Haki infused blows. This was then revealed to be because of his Observation Haki predicting where the blows would land so he could preemptivly create holes by molding his mochi body.

[ben-zayb]

It also has certain similarities with how Crocodile evades blows. The difference is that Crocodile instead mastered his DF to the poiint that he can reflexively disperse or create holes in his body just in time before a blow lands

[Traab]

No, that was never a thing. What happened was that when Jinbe reveals the name of Katakuri's devil fruit, in the initial magazine release he refers to it as a Logia. In the later volume release, his line was changed to say "special Paramecia". So in-universe canon, no one has ever thought the Moci Mochi no Mi is a Logia fruit.

What was a mystery, to both the characters and the readers, was how Katakuri evaded Haki infused blows. This was then revealed to be because of his Observation Haki predicting where the blows would land so he could preemptivly create holes by molding his mochi body.

Ah thats it. Now I remember. I knew there was some early on debate about the type of fruit and wasnt sure if it was also a part of the story or not. I wasnt following it too closely at the time so I only dimly recalled the whole thing.

[deuterio12]

Yeah, me too. But I guess Oda has realized the crew has gotten too big to give everyone enough time all the time, so he had to split up the teams and I feel will continue to do so in some way for most future arcs.

But Sanji got way more than "enough time", he got a massive background upgrade in that he's the runaway prince from a super powerful family and his cooking skillz are suddenly enough to satisfy even the candy crazy pirate queen. I don't recall any other time that the big bad of the arc is not defeated by Luffy himself, but instead the straw hat captains had to do with defeating some underling we had never heard of before. And Luffy was left at door's death from that battle, while Sanji didn't even break a sweat preparing that super cake! He also seduces the girl that was supposed to kill him and makes ammends with his family that all survive.

I can't even begin to imagine what the other non-Luffy straw hats would need to do to even start catching up with that.

Or maybe Oda will just start Krillin'g the other party members.

[Tvtyrant]

But Sanji got way more than "enough time", he got a massive background upgrade in that he's the runaway prince from a super powerful family and his cooking skillz are suddenly enough to satisfy even the candy crazy pirate queen. I don't recall any other time that the big bad of the arc is not defeated by Luffy himself, but instead the straw hat captains had to do with defeating some underling we had never heard of before. And Luffy was left at door's death from that battle, while Sanji didn't even break a sweat preparing that super cake! He also seduces the girl that was supposed to kill him and makes ammends with his family that all survive.

I can't even begin to imagine what the other non-Luffy straw hats would need to do to even start catching up with that.

Or maybe Oda will just start Krillin'g the other party members.

I don't really see the issue. Most of the characters have had quite long arcs, especially Water 7 and Thriller Bark. The East Blue arcs were written to be much shorter due to shonen arc creep, so Oda might just be adding to them.

Zoro has also been in the spotlight a lot more then Sanji since the time jump, and with Jimbei being comparable or stronger it might have been trying to maintain character rankings.

[lord_khaine]

Nope, he beat Crocodile because he was the superior hand-to-hand combatant and had figured out how to make it a brawl by that point. Luffy dominated Croc in the last round of their fight almost as much as he did Doffy while in Gear Fourth. That's not what I'd call a fluke. In fact, later at Marineford, Crocodile backed down from a confrontation against Luffy because he realized it would not go well for him.

Well.. less he had figured out how to make it a brawl.. and more that he took advantage over how Crocodille became distracted by him not dying from poison like he was suposed to do.
It would still have become a phyrric victory if someone else had not saved him from the poisoning. And i dont recall Crocodille being intimidated by him in that arc. It was Ivankov who stood for that bit.

Yeah but he wouldnt really NEED the resolve bonus as he wouldnt go 15 rounds with katakuri slowly figuring out how to fight him first after having had a really really bad couple of days. (Im honestly not sure how much time passed in this arc between say, fighting cracker and defeating katakuri)

But Dogtooth would then also start out serious. And not take a freaking dinner break in the middle of the fight.

[Kato]

New chapter with a change of focus showcasing the revolutions top brass. I like it, especially the diversity. But... Is Betty really as lightly dressed as it appears? Oda...

[Lord of the Helms]

New chapter with a change of focus showcasing the revolutions top brass. I like it, especially the diversity. But... Is Betty really as lightly dressed as it appears? Oda...

Yes, she is. Considering her flag-waving pose in one panel, I'm guessing she is a shout out to the French Marianne, in which case she is technically slightly more SFW-dressed than her inspiration.

Very slightly.

Also, I wonder if that one revolutionary is a mink or a Zoan...

[Razade]

Betty is also a trans-woman according to the fan scanners.

[deuterio12]

Betty is also a trans-woman according to the fan scanners.

Ah yes, changing genders is a fast and cheap proccess in One Pieceverse.

[Razade]

Ah yes, changing genders is a fast and cheap proccess in One Pieceverse.

She's not a Newkama or anything like that. She's legit a Trans-woman from what I can understand from the translators. Only person who can change on a whim is Iva and that's because of their Fruit.

[Traab]

Arent the okamas less trans and more crossdressers/drag queens?

[Razade]

Arent the okamas less trans and more crossdressers/drag queens?

In the manga they are yeah but Okama is just a slang term for a gay person (means pot, lesbians are referred to as onabe which is...a pan. No idea where this arose). It doesn't denote cross dressing, transvestites or trans culture. As always, Oda is sort of poking fun at public perceptions in Japan about their general culture with them so they're just ramped to 11.

[deuterio12]

She's not a Newkama or anything like that. She's legit a Trans-woman from what I can understand from the translators. Only person who can change on a whim is Iva and that's because of their Fruit.

Iva can do it to other people as well. So if you're a member of the revolutionary army, it's just a matter of paying Iva a visit and you can change genders in a few seconds.

[lord_khaine]

She's not a Newkama or anything like that. She's legit a Trans-woman from what I can understand from the translators. Only person who can change on a whim is Iva and that's because of their Fruit.

Considering how complete the transformation are, is it then not more precise to just call her a woman and be done with it?

[Kato]

Uhm... I don't really want to get involved in this but.. What part of the translation are you guys talking about?

[Razade]

Iva can do it to other people as well. So if you're a member of the revolutionary army, it's just a matter of paying Iva a visit and you can change genders in a few seconds.

Well aware.

Considering how complete the transformation are, is it then not more precise to just call her a woman and be done with it?

Probably but then how is that communicated outside the fiction? It's a pretty big deal imho that Oda's done this. I can't think of another big Shonen series that's been this inclusive honestly and it's the only reason I brought it up. The Okama are a little camp-y but that's sort of the point. Beti isn't even camp and it would have (and seems not to have been done in the fan translations since...hard to do...) gone unnoticed by Western audiances if not for translators. See bellow.

Uhm... I don't really want to get involved in this but.. What part of the translation are you guys talking about?

The initial scan translations before they got out to the rest of the wider translation community. She (and the rest of the Commanders) speak in weird syntax. Beti apparently speaks using masculine forms. Just as Morley (the giant) speaks in feminine forms. Because he's an Okama.

[ben-zayb]

It's confusing. If Betty speaks like that, wouldn't that mean instead that she identifies as male, not the other way around? Her outfit actually reminded me of Smoker in Tashigi's body

Also, IIRC Inazuma was neither campy nor defined mainly by how their body changed between masculine and feminine forms.

[Razade]

It's confusing. If Betty speaks like that, wouldn't that mean instead that she identifies as male, not the other way around? Her outfit actually reminded me of Smoker in Tashigi's body

Well...no. Because the majority of the Okama speak in feminine tone and they don't seem to identify as women.

Also, IIRC Inazuma was neither campy nor defined mainly by how their body changed between masculine and feminine forms.

Sure, an example. But their kingdom is named Kamabakka, literally "Nothing but Transvestites", is shaped like a heart and filled with men dressed in outrageous clothing doing nothing but playing with make up and sighing. Bon Clay is absolute camp from the get go. So is Iva, whose influence is clearly Dr. Frank N. Furter (the name alone my goodness) from Rocky Horror. That whole movie drips camp like its come down with some horrible venereal disease.

The Okama are camp. Firmly rooted in it.

[Kato]

Hm.. My Japanese is too non-existent to make a call on that. Not that I wouldn't expect it from Oda or would have a problem with it but I feel like speaking with male patterns would just lead me to assume she's tomboyish or doesn't care what others think a woman should do. I guess we'll find out when we get to know Bettie better.

[Lord of the Helms]

Well...no. Because the majority of the Okama speak in feminine tone and they don't seem to identify as women.

Actually, the majority of the Okama do seem to be biological males who identify as female, wearing women's clothing and make-up and all.

[Traab]

Well...no. Because the majority of the Okama speak in feminine tone and they don't seem to identify as women.



Sure, an example. But their kingdom is named Kamabakka, literally "Nothing but Transvestites", is shaped like a heart and filled with men dressed in outrageous clothing doing nothing but playing with make up and sighing. Bon Clay is absolute camp from the get go. So is Iva, whose influence is clearly Dr. Frank N. Furter (the name alone my goodness) from Rocky Horror. That whole movie drips camp like its come down with some horrible venereal disease.

The Okama are camp. Firmly rooted in it.

The thing is, they dont seem to actually BE transvestites though. Especially considering they have a leader that is more than capable of turning them into actual biological women with the injection of some magic hormones. Instead they remain guys dressing up as women, wearing makeup, and in general acting like the second string contestants for ru pauls drag race. There are only a couple we see turn into women, ivankov, and that one who lives in her hair. Even then it seems like they switch back and forth regularly so im not sure whats going on there. Gender fluid? Either way, it makes the whole setup very confusing. Its like naming it, "The Island Of Gay People" only its full of people dating both men and women.