Wonder Woman

[Knaight]

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However, I don't feel like the message of the movie is affected by this. When Diana charges the front lines, she's convinced that Hades has corrupted them and the soldiers are brainwashed. She needs to break through to Hades to defeat the greater evil, and she is pragmatic enough to defeat any enemies that stand in her way.

It's only at the end of the movie that she realizes she was wrong, and that humankind is covered in shades of grey instead of the black and white morality she's been espousing earlier.
That's when she lets Doctor Poison go (and really, I would have been happy to have Diana still drop the truck on her), and she doesn't fight the remaining German soldiers once Hades is defeated.

That last was a bit weird - not that she would stop fighting, but that the Germans did. They had a group of Allied commandos amongst them, the war was still on,
and Hades himself said they weren't brainwashed. Surrendering I can understand - I wouldn't want to fight Wonder Woman either. But they just suddenly appear to be buddies with the Allied troops. The scene was just slightly off, for me.

Ares. The relevant figure is Ares. I realize that Hades is the standard big bad for anything ripping of Greek myth at an incredibly surface level, but in this case it's Ares.

[GloatingSwine]

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That last was a bit weird - not that she would stop fighting, but that the Germans did. They had a group of Allied commandos amongst them, the war was still on,
and Hades himself said they weren't brainwashed. Surrendering I can understand - I wouldn't want to fight Wonder Woman either. But they just suddenly appear to be buddies with the Allied troops. The scene was just slightly off, for me.

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On the other hand, they'd just been witnessses to a smackdown between a pair of actual gods who can throw tanks at each other and lightning and blow giant holes in their runways just by wanting it and appear to have lived through it. A war everyone knows is basically over anyway is suddenly the least of everyone's concerns.

My gripes are far more petty.

1. It is apparently possible to make a telephone call from a nowhere town in Belgium direct to Whitehall after four years of shelling. This would probably not have been possible without the war in the way, you would have had to send a telegram instead.

2. The Germans appear to have a relatively large number of British tanks at their base.

3. Wonder Woman's armour has big wedge heels but there is also a joke about Diana not being able to walk in heels.

[Rodin]

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On the other hand, they'd just been witnessses to a smackdown between a pair of actual gods who can throw tanks at each other and lightning and blow giant holes in their runways just by wanting it and appear to have lived through it. A war everyone knows is basically over anyway is suddenly the least of everyone's concerns.

My gripes are far more petty.

1. It is apparently possible to make a telephone call from a nowhere town in Belgium direct to Whitehall after four years of shelling. This would probably not have been possible without the war in the way, you would have had to send a telegram instead.

2. The Germans appear to have a relatively large number of British tanks at their base.

3. Wonder Woman's armour has big wedge heels but there is also a joke about Diana not being able to walk in heels.

Oh, that was just the specific complaint I had in response to the earlier post. I have plenty of other gripes.

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1) The disappearing boats from the opening fight. Again, there were explosions on the beach implying shelling, and it wasn't the rifle-wielding soldiers doing that. The armed boats mysteriously disappear halfway through the scene. Even if it was grenades or something...did the Germans completely abandon ship and send everyone to shore? I call BS to that, which means that now Germany knows exactly where Themyscira is.

2) A Native American in full stereotypical garb, because of course he is. That this guy is the smuggler into a war zone just for the "Americans are evil too" bit was a touch on the nose. Still, I can just about accept that for the purpose of story-telling...but SMOKE SIGNALS? Are you freaking kidding me with this? What's more, he sends up smoke signals from about 50 yards away from German High Command. There is apparently no attempt to investigate this by the Germans, despite an ultra-high security gala with all the high muckety-mucks at it.

3) On that subject, getting into the gala. A guy in a German officer's uniform who the guard has never seen before arrives with no invitation, no identification papers, no nothing...and you just let him in??

4) Meanwhile, Diana mugs a German noblewoman for her clothes. Despite having a driver, nobody notices that this woman has gone missing. Diana also manages to get in without any identification papers - I suppose she took the lady's invitation, but there is no proof of who she is and the guards apparently blithely let her through.

5) Apparently, if you snag a tow from a tramp freighter you can sail from somewhere off the coast of Greece to England in a single night. You can't even do that today, let alone in 1917.

6) Hippolyta apparently requires her entire retinue to ride down to the shore of the island and say farewell to Diana. Was she running around waking them up while Diana stole the Godkiller?

7) Just before that, Diana can't enter the tower where the Godkiller is kept presumably because it's guarded. Said tower is also right next to the town. However, the guards and everyone in town are apparently deaf, because nobody reacts when she screams loudly as she nearly falls off the wall as she climbs up it.

8) Doctor Poison keeps all her research notes in a single, tiny diary. She is also entirely incapable of reconstructing a formula she must have made variations of thousands of times as she tested it from memory. That's just...no.

9) Steve Trevor steals a German plane, and manages to get away scot clean. Until he's near Themyscira, when several boats full of Germans somehow know that this German plane is being flown by an American and shoot him down. What are they, psychic? Also, why did he fly near enough to them for a boat shooting him down to be a reasonable possibility? This isn't WW2 with advanced anti-air.

10) Apparently, the Germans managed to telegram their spies in London with an exact description of Steve's face. In a town of millions, without knowing when or if he will arrive, the spies find him within hours. The theory that the Germans are psychic accrues evidence at an alarming rate.

11) Just before this, Steve is distracted from a mission that will potentially save millions of lives to go clothes shopping. *headdesk*

12) After clothes shopping, Diana gives up the Godkiller to a lady she only just met and who has no ability to protect it. *headdesk*

13) Steve brings along a sniper explicitly for his skills and willingness to work under the radar...but then it turns out the guy can't shoot anymore and everyone knew that going in. *headdesk*

14) Steve says the plane can't be safely blown up on the ground because the gas will get everywhere...and then promptly blows it up in the air right above the base, creating a lovely airburst that will rain down on the surrounding countryside and the base alike. *headdesk*

15) Apparently, WWI follows the same rules as the Necromongers, and by murdering the other generals Ludendorff...gets their rank? Or something? Seriously, nobody questions the entirety of the German high command getting murdered? Why does this work???

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Like I said in my initial review, there was a lot to like in this movie (mainly the characters and themes), but good LORD were some parts of it dumb.

Oh yes, one more thing I had a question on.

The Amazons are completely unprepared for guns and didn't know about WWI, with the strong implication that they haven't been outside their protective bubble in centuries. Are they immortal? As in, not full immortal because we see some die of wounds, but time-immortal. If so, how do the different ages work? We see teenagers when Diana is very young, and Antiope is obviously middle-aged. Diana was apparently born back when Zeus threw down with Ares, but she appears to have aged up to her 20s at a normal rate. Did Zeus wait 2000 years or so and just trust that Ares wouldn't return during that time? Or did Diana spend 2000 years growing up?

[Sholos]

Oh, that was just the specific complaint I had in response to the earlier post. I have plenty of other gripes.

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1) The disappearing boats from the opening fight. Again, there were explosions on the beach implying shelling, and it wasn't the rifle-wielding soldiers doing that. The armed boats mysteriously disappear halfway through the scene. Even if it was grenades or something...did the Germans completely abandon ship and send everyone to shore? I call BS to that, which means that now Germany knows exactly where Themyscira is.

2) A Native American in full stereotypical garb, because of course he is. That this guy is the smuggler into a war zone just for the "Americans are evil too" bit was a touch on the nose. Still, I can just about accept that for the purpose of story-telling...but SMOKE SIGNALS? Are you freaking kidding me with this? What's more, he sends up smoke signals from about 50 yards away from German High Command. There is apparently no attempt to investigate this by the Germans, despite an ultra-high security gala with all the high muckety-mucks at it.

3) On that subject, getting into the gala. A guy in a German officer's uniform who the guard has never seen before arrives with no invitation, no identification papers, no nothing...and you just let him in??

4) Meanwhile, Diana mugs a German noblewoman for her clothes. Despite having a driver, nobody notices that this woman has gone missing. Diana also manages to get in without any identification papers - I suppose she took the lady's invitation, but there is no proof of who she is and the guards apparently blithely let her through.

5) Apparently, if you snag a tow from a tramp freighter you can sail from somewhere off the coast of Greece to England in a single night. You can't even do that today, let alone in 1917.

6) Hippolyta apparently requires her entire retinue to ride down to the shore of the island and say farewell to Diana. Was she running around waking them up while Diana stole the Godkiller?

7) Just before that, Diana can't enter the tower where the Godkiller is kept presumably because it's guarded. Said tower is also right next to the town. However, the guards and everyone in town are apparently deaf, because nobody reacts when she screams loudly as she nearly falls off the wall as she climbs up it.

8) Doctor Poison keeps all her research notes in a single, tiny diary. She is also entirely incapable of reconstructing a formula she must have made variations of thousands of times as she tested it from memory. That's just...no.

9) Steve Trevor steals a German plane, and manages to get away scot clean. Until he's near Themyscira, when several boats full of Germans somehow know that this German plane is being flown by an American and shoot him down. What are they, psychic? Also, why did he fly near enough to them for a boat shooting him down to be a reasonable possibility? This isn't WW2 with advanced anti-air.

10) Apparently, the Germans managed to telegram their spies in London with an exact description of Steve's face. In a town of millions, without knowing when or if he will arrive, the spies find him within hours. The theory that the Germans are psychic accrues evidence at an alarming rate.

11) Just before this, Steve is distracted from a mission that will potentially save millions of lives to go clothes shopping. *headdesk*

12) After clothes shopping, Diana gives up the Godkiller to a lady she only just met and who has no ability to protect it. *headdesk*

13) Steve brings along a sniper explicitly for his skills and willingness to work under the radar...but then it turns out the guy can't shoot anymore and everyone knew that going in. *headdesk*

14) Steve says the plane can't be safely blown up on the ground because the gas will get everywhere...and then promptly blows it up in the air right above the base, creating a lovely airburst that will rain down on the surrounding countryside and the base alike. *headdesk*

15) Apparently, WWI follows the same rules as the Necromongers, and by murdering the other generals Ludendorff...gets their rank? Or something? Seriously, nobody questions the entirety of the German high command getting murdered? Why does this work???

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Like I said in my initial review, there was a lot to like in this movie (mainly the characters and themes), but good LORD were some parts of it dumb.

Oh yes, one more thing I had a question on.

The Amazons are completely unprepared for guns and didn't know about WWI, with the strong implication that they haven't been outside their protective bubble in centuries. Are they immortal? As in, not full immortal because we see some die of wounds, but time-immortal. If so, how do the different ages work? We see teenagers when Diana is very young, and Antiope is obviously middle-aged. Diana was apparently born back when Zeus threw down with Ares, but she appears to have aged up to her 20s at a normal rate. Did Zeus wait 2000 years or so and just trust that Ares wouldn't return during that time? Or did Diana spend 2000 years growing up?

Answers to very few of your points:

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1. I only saw the one big ship, and I believe it was losing very badly at the beginning of the beach scene. So I presume it sunk. Not a great explanation, but possible.

6. It wouldn't be that strange for a queen to have a retinue at all hours, especially a military Queen. They'd be experts in being ready to follow at a moment's notice.

8. Remember, those formulas were being fed to her by Ares at least a bit, and we don't know how familiar she was with them. People keep notes for a reason, and I don't think it was unreasonable for her to keep the only copy on her.

13. I read that as a recent development and also as a result of being able to see the belltower gunman's face.

15. Military coup? It's happened before and isn't to terribly out of wack. Especially if people are scared he might come for them next.

The rest? Yeah, I got nothing.

[Lacuna Caster]

Yeah yeah yeah, nothing matters unless you think it's important. Got it.

I don't want to drag this thread to far off-topic, but okay, by what defensible ethical standard do you think it's sane to spend more attention on one guy being beaten than on mass starvation? What are your criteria here, exactly?

You're gonna end up cutting yourself on all this edge.

And honestly it's a little scary that you wouldn't even have legitimate sympathy in a face to face conversation. That's what sympathy is for - experiencing someone's pain, and letting them know that they are not alone in their grief.

I don't know what to tell you, Friv. I'm aware that having a visceral emotional response to some immediately-visible tragedy is a very common human response, but humans have lots of inherent biases and I don't feel particularly bad about lacking this one.

As it happens, I do believe in the abstract ethical obligation to help people, and allocating time and resources toward altruistic causes. But I think that back-and-forth sympathy is a god-awful way to go about the allocation process. I suppose I'd rather be mechanical than unfair.

[Lacuna Caster]

Oh, that was just the specific complaint I had in response to the earlier post. I have plenty of other gripes.

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The Amazons are completely unprepared for guns and didn't know about WWI, with the strong implication that they haven't been outside their protective bubble in centuries. Are they immortal? As in, not full immortal because we see some die of wounds, but time-immortal. If so, how do the different ages work? We see teenagers when Diana is very young, and Antiope is obviously middle-aged. Diana was apparently born back when Zeus threw down with Ares, but she appears to have aged up to her 20s at a normal rate. Did Zeus wait 2000 years or so and just trust that Ares wouldn't return during that time? Or did Diana spend 2000 years growing up?

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Yeah, the bit about time-differentials with the Amazons doesn't make a lot of sense, now that you bring it up. One could imagine Zeus waiting a few millennia to hand Hippolyta her ace in the hole, but it's not obvious why he would (especially given the 'dying breath' description.)

The stuff about time and distance when it comes to travelling around Europe doesn't bother me so much, even if it's very unlikely that the weeks required to get around gibraltar (or just hop on a train) would be completely free of incident.

My test for this sort of thing is generally, "can I imagine editing the film in such a way as to remove these inconsistencies while keeping the structure intact"? I think that's mostly possible here (e.g, one could have the clothes-shopping immediately after the staff meeting as part of their undercover work, and it won't make much difference to anything.)

I think the 2009 version was a little better on some of these points- there's an internal defector to let Steve in, for example- and gave more background to Ares as well (specifically with Hippolyta killing his son.) I'm just relieved this version wasn't terrible.

[Dienekes]

Ares. The relevant figure is Ares. I realize that Hades is the standard big bad for anything ripping of Greek myth at an incredibly surface level, but in this case it's Ares.

Which is weird, when you think about it. Since in the myths themselves Hades is a pretty chill guy. At least when compared to his brothers and sisters. While Ares is, if anything, a chump.

Really the big bad of Greek myths would be Cronos, or Typhon, or even Hera.

[Cikomyr]

Which is weird, when you think about it. Since in the myths themselves Hades is a pretty chill guy. At least when compared to his brothers and sisters. While Ares is, if anything, a chump.

Really the big bad of Greek myths would be Cronos, or Typhon, or even Hera.

That is because of cultural Christian intluence. King of the Underworld = Bad.

After all, good people who die go UP, not down

[NascragMan]

For a summer blockbuster superhero movie, Wonder woman has gotten little or no advertising. I think they just didn't know how to market a female-centric movie.

[Manga Shoggoth]

For a summer blockbuster superhero movie, Wonder woman has gotten little or no advertising. I think they just didn't know how to market a female-centric movie.

Not sure about that - I don't go to the cinema (so no trailers) and watch very little television (no ads), but I've still seen plenty of posters for it - including the video ones. If anything I was more aware of Wonder Woman that I was Batman vs Superman.

[Thialfi]

Most of your points are spot on, but dumb stuff in action movies is far from unique to Wonder Woman. I only have a few comments.

Oh, that was just the specific complaint I had in response to the earlier post. I have plenty of other gripes.

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I was with my kids and kind of distracted, but I was pretty darned sure that it was explicitly stated that Diana was the only child on the island. Maybe it's just my familiarity with her origins from Bruce Timm's work or the animated movie, but I thought it was at least strongly implied that the Amazons of the DC Comics universe are indeed immortal and Diana's mother is thousands of years old.

As to some of your other points. Hollywood and science have always had a dubious relationship. I really liked the movie and realized what they wanted to do to service the plot, but I shook my head at what they came up with for why Steve had to die.

Killing the entire German high command was also way over the top. They could have at least set it up as something they could blame on the allies and left him as the only option for leader. That would have also put the armistice in jeopardy, which is something the general really wanted to do.

As for psychic Germans, at least we have the knowledge that someone that is intimately familiar with Steve Trevor's work is actually the big bad of the movie. He could have easily tipped off the Germans although his machinations and motivations are already complicated enough.

As for the Amazons actions leading up to Diana leaving the island, you have to remember that every woman on that island, with the exception of Diana, knew that the sword was just a regular sword. None of the women were overly surprised when Diana released that energy pulse while sparring with Antiope. They all knew that Diana was the godkiller.

[Sapphire Guard]

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She charges the front lines because she's told that the villagers across the way are being abused by the occupying Germans. There's more to it than just wanting to stop Ares at that point.

As for what the soldiers can do...desert? Fight back? Report it to a superior officer? The fact that you're following orders is explicitly not an excuse to go along with committing war crimes.

Also, I'm pretty sure they stopped fighting because a giant god of war was just trying to kill them all and they're just happy to be alive. It's pretty clear they have no chance against Wondie at this point anyway,
so it's not like surrender is unreasonable there.

Now it is. Back then, it was quite likely to get you shot.

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The frontliners almost certainly know nothing about the big gas factory. Even the high command don't seem to know about it.

I'm not saying WW is wrong or unforgiveable, but I don't think you can give so much benefit of the doubt to a general during a civil war who has just executed someone and is currently using a human shield, but none to (probably conscripted) soldiers holding a line, likely not there by choice and with no real control over anything.

I did notice the extremely light German security at the gala, but didn't let it bother me.

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The clothes shopping actually had a point, Diana is very underdressed for 1910s London,
it saves a lot of time and attention to get her new clothes.

[Legato Endless]

Oh, that was just the specific complaint I had in response to the earlier post. I have plenty of other gripes.

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Oh yes, one more thing I had a question on.

The Amazons are completely unprepared for guns and didn't know about WWI, with the strong implication that they haven't been outside their protective bubble in centuries. Are they immortal? As in, not full immortal because we see some die of wounds, but time-immortal. If so, how do the different ages work? We see teenagers when Diana is very young, and Antiope is obviously middle-aged. Diana was apparently born back when Zeus threw down with Ares, but she appears to have aged up to her 20s at a normal rate. Did Zeus wait 2000 years or so and just trust that Ares wouldn't return during that time? Or did Diana spend 2000 years growing up?

Correct, the Amazons are immortal.

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Zeus fathered her immediately, Diana grew up normally, then spent several millennia training and being an Amazon. The montage admittedly makes that last part a bit unclear.

The visual divergence in the immortals' ages is because it's a film and casting everyone around the same age is visually boring. Also maybe each Amazon has her own stopping point for how she presents herself in the aging process. This does lead to other questions, like how Diana can speak all languages despite being completely isolated from a world that has undergone a great deal of linguistic evolution since Greek antiquity, but I'm assuming there's probably a mystic factor to that related to the Amazons' role as peacekeepers.

[Anteros]

Now it is. Back then, it was quite likely to get you shot.

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The frontliners almost certainly know nothing about the big gas factory. Even the high command don't seem to know about it.

I'm not saying WW is wrong or unforgiveable, but I don't think you can give so much benefit of the doubt to a general during a civil war who has just executed someone and is currently using a human shield, but none to (probably conscripted) soldiers holding a line, likely not there by choice and with no real control over anything.

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No, but the frontliners she takes out are responsible for enslaving and mistreating the town. Their hands aren't clean.

It doesn't matter anyway, because it's in character for WW to kill them and it's completely out of character for Superman. If WW killed a general with a gun to her love interest's head you wouldn't bat an eye. She does things like that. On the other hand if you put Superman in the trenches of WW1 it would be completely out of character for him to kill the soldiers. They're not the same people, so they're not held to the same standard. The problem with Superman isn't that it's morally wrong for him to kill the general. It's that Superman would never, ever do that.

[Quiver]

Seen it twice. I liked it. I'm fascinated by World War I as a period, and I've been arguing since that announcement that it would be a good fit for Wonder Woman and her themes, so I feel vindicated.

A perfect movie? Not by a country mile. The villain's are cartoonish, the ending feels like two different plot lines happening in seperate studio lots that happened to get cut together, the suffragate movement didn't get nearly the play I would have expected, and others have pointed out certain logical failings.

But I don't care. I liked this movie. I'll echo the sentiments of others in this thread, that it's the best DC film since the Dark Knight. It does explore some dark themes -not fully, but at least it tries- and I enjoyed it.

Frankly, my biggest gripe is

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By the end of the film, Diana... has no supporting cast. Steve is dead, Etta is dead, Sameer Charlie and the Chief are dead, Ares is dead, the Gods are dead, she can never return to Themiscyra... that's a pretty strange place to leave your main character. It's a similar situation to the Cap films, sure, but Cap brought Bucky as a through line for them. Diana has... Bruce Wayne? I mean, I like Batfleck, but I'd still like for Diana to have a supporting cast all her own.

Still, a solid film. I'd recommend it.

[GloatingSwine]

the suffragate movement didn't get nearly the play I would have expected

It's set in late 1918, they'd already won the vote in the UK in February 1918 (based on a decision made in 1916). The suffragette movement had already won.

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm glad they didn't get tangled up in Suffragette-y stuff to be honest. That immediately runs into problems like: Diana is completely unstoppable, she can just ignore any social convention she wants with no consequences, how is this relevant to her? And if she succeeds, that's a bit insulting to the real movement, you succeeded only because of WW. Having her be an inspiring figure is problematic because it kind of gives her responsibility for their success.

[Quiver]

It's set in late 1918, they'd already won the vote in the UK in February 1918 (based on a decision made in 1916). The suffragette movement had already won.

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Doesn't Etta have a line about how they'll fight with their principles "and that's how well win the vote"?

I mean... I could have misheard. My impression was that they hadn't won yet, at least not in the universe of the film. I mean... in our world, Ludendorf survived World War I, so there isn't any reason to assume history is the same...

...buuuuuut for all my history in the period philosophically, I am woefully ignorant, so that's me throwing up a paper shield.

(Plus.. I get it. The War is the big thing here, and fits the theme. I just saw the Suffragate movement mentioned a few times in pre-release stuff, so expected it to be a bigger deal)

[GloatingSwine]

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Doesn't Etta have a line about how they'll fight with their principles "and that's how well win the vote"?

I mean... I could have misheard. My impression was that they hadn't won yet, at least not in the universe of the film. I mean... in our world, Ludendorf survived World War I, so there isn't any reason to assume history is the same...

...buuuuuut for all my history in the period philosophically, I am woefully ignorant, so that's me throwing up a paper shield.

(Plus.. I get it. The War is the big thing here, and fits the theme. I just saw the Suffragate movement mentioned a few times in pre-release stuff, so expected it to be a bigger deal)

Yes. But the film was written and directed by Americans who might not be aware that the enfranchisement of women in the UK happened a few years before it did in the US. (It could potentially have happened earlier but Asquith kept skewering bills that had parliamentary support).

The other thing to note is that the suffragette movements suspended protest actions during the war (but continued peaceful campaigning).

[Quiver]

Yes. But the film was written and directed by Americans who might not be aware that the enfranchisement of women in the UK happened a few years before it did in the US. (It could potentially have happened earlier but Asquith kept skewering bills that had parliamentary support).

The other thing to note is that the suffragette movements suspended protest actions during the war (but continued peaceful campaigning).

I have nothing else to say in response to this except thanks?

Like I said, I like World War I as a time period, but I'm not especially familair with it. I AM trying to change that... and getting information like this is interesting and useful.

Thanks!

[Friv]

It's set in late 1918, they'd already won the vote in the UK in February 1918 (based on a decision made in 1916). The suffragette movement had already won.

If we're going to be technical, and why not, not all women had the vote yet. The 1918 law gave the vote to all men over the age of 21 regardless of property ownership, plus all women over the age of 30 who owned property, were married to property-owners, or rented expensive enough property. This was considered to basically be a test run, and was extended to every woman in 1928. So Etty could be looking ahead to women getting the same age cutoff as men, although she personally should have the vote now.

I mean, it's more likely that this was a mistake that wasn't caught, but I can head canon that.

[Ranxerox]

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It's comic books and he's her biggest villain. He's only dead if they decide to not make a sequel.

That's probably for the best. The best thing DC could do is distance themselves from those movies and Snyder's "everything has to be grimdark" as quickly as humanly possible.

I think a part of the reason this movie is doing so well is that it's the first DC movie that actually has one of the character's we grew up with instead of a terrible person cosplaying as them.

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In the comics or a tv series, that would be true. However movies tend to be more one and done where villains are concerned. Wonder Woman has enough notable enemies that they will probably reboot the franchise before they need to reuse Ares. So, yeah, I am thinking that he is dead.

[Bartmanhomer]

I saw Wonder Woman on last Saturday and this is what I think of the movie. It's about the origin of Wonder Woman and it have a lot of action in it and it was also very funny. I actually enjoyed it. The storyline was great and so many visual effects. I definitely say that Wonder Woman is an incredible movie. I'll give this movie 5 out of 5 stars.

[Ranxerox]

Oh, that was just the specific complaint I had in response to the earlier post. I have plenty of other gripes.

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1) The disappearing boats from the opening fight. Again, there were explosions on the beach implying shelling, and it wasn't the rifle-wielding soldiers doing that. The armed boats mysteriously disappear halfway through the scene. Even if it was grenades or something...did the Germans completely abandon ship and send everyone to shore? I call BS to that, which means that now Germany knows exactly where Themyscira is.

2) A Native American in full stereotypical garb, because of course he is. That this guy is the smuggler into a war zone just for the "Americans are evil too" bit was a touch on the nose. Still, I can just about accept that for the purpose of story-telling...but SMOKE SIGNALS? Are you freaking kidding me with this? What's more, he sends up smoke signals from about 50 yards away from German High Command. There is apparently no attempt to investigate this by the Germans, despite an ultra-high security gala with all the high muckety-mucks at it.

3) On that subject, getting into the gala. A guy in a German officer's uniform who the guard has never seen before arrives with no invitation, no identification papers, no nothing...and you just let him in??

4) Meanwhile, Diana mugs a German noblewoman for her clothes. Despite having a driver, nobody notices that this woman has gone missing. Diana also manages to get in without any identification papers - I suppose she took the lady's invitation, but there is no proof of who she is and the guards apparently blithely let her through.

5) Apparently, if you snag a tow from a tramp freighter you can sail from somewhere off the coast of Greece to England in a single night. You can't even do that today, let alone in 1917.

6) Hippolyta apparently requires her entire retinue to ride down to the shore of the island and say farewell to Diana. Was she running around waking them up while Diana stole the Godkiller?

7) Just before that, Diana can't enter the tower where the Godkiller is kept presumably because it's guarded. Said tower is also right next to the town. However, the guards and everyone in town are apparently deaf, because nobody reacts when she screams loudly as she nearly falls off the wall as she climbs up it.

8) Doctor Poison keeps all her research notes in a single, tiny diary. She is also entirely incapable of reconstructing a formula she must have made variations of thousands of times as she tested it from memory. That's just...no.

9) Steve Trevor steals a German plane, and manages to get away scot clean. Until he's near Themyscira, when several boats full of Germans somehow know that this German plane is being flown by an American and shoot him down. What are they, psychic? Also, why did he fly near enough to them for a boat shooting him down to be a reasonable possibility? This isn't WW2 with advanced anti-air.

10) Apparently, the Germans managed to telegram their spies in London with an exact description of Steve's face. In a town of millions, without knowing when or if he will arrive, the spies find him within hours. The theory that the Germans are psychic accrues evidence at an alarming rate.

11) Just before this, Steve is distracted from a mission that will potentially save millions of lives to go clothes shopping. *headdesk*

12) After clothes shopping, Diana gives up the Godkiller to a lady she only just met and who has no ability to protect it. *headdesk*

13) Steve brings along a sniper explicitly for his skills and willingness to work under the radar...but then it turns out the guy can't shoot anymore and everyone knew that going in. *headdesk*

14) Steve says the plane can't be safely blown up on the ground because the gas will get everywhere...and then promptly blows it up in the air right above the base, creating a lovely airburst that will rain down on the surrounding countryside and the base alike. *headdesk*

15) Apparently, WWI follows the same rules as the Necromongers, and by murdering the other generals Ludendorff...gets their rank? Or something? Seriously, nobody questions the entirety of the German high command getting murdered? Why does this work???

------

Like I said in my initial review, there was a lot to like in this movie (mainly the characters and themes), but good LORD were some parts of it dumb.

Oh yes, one more thing I had a question on.

The Amazons are completely unprepared for guns and didn't know about WWI, with the strong implication that they haven't been outside their protective bubble in centuries. Are they immortal? As in, not full immortal because we see some die of wounds, but time-immortal. If so, how do the different ages work? We see teenagers when Diana is very young, and Antiope is obviously middle-aged. Diana was apparently born back when Zeus threw down with Ares, but she appears to have aged up to her 20s at a normal rate. Did Zeus wait 2000 years or so and just trust that Ares wouldn't return during that time? Or did Diana spend 2000 years growing up?

Spoiler: Answers where I can

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1) The explosions on the beach were grenades. Artillery explosions would have been much larger. As for the German's back on the boat, no, they don't know where Themyscira is. That is an aspect of the magic that shrouds it. It does not seem to always be in the same place and when you get close to it both compasses and other navigational systems go haywire and peoples personal sense of direction becomes confused. So the moment that the warship lost sight of the smaller boats in the fog , it had no way to find them.

2) Okay, I have nothing on this.

3) People have gotten into some fairly amazing places based on chutzpah alone, and when others assume that no one would be insane enough to try to crash the party that only makes it easier.

4) The driver had already dropped the woman off and wasn't expecting to see her until after the festivities, and anyone waiting for her at the party could easily just assumed that she was running late.

5) Themyscira may not been off the coast of Greece. As I mentioned it moves around. Still, yeah, that was just one cases of a vehicle moving at the speed of plot.

6) This one was already answered by someone else.

7) Right next to is relative. I got the impression that it was about a quarter mile for town. If you have ever tried to get the attention of someone a quarter mile away by yelling, you know it takes some doing and that is when the person is awake.

8) This one was addressed by someone else.

9) He didn't get away scot free. He was being chased by other planes who presumably radioed there positions as they chased allowing command to coordinate with navel forces in the line of their path.

10) Presumably London based spies putting two and two together based off off a verbal description of the notebook thief.

11) Already addressed by someone else.

12) Diana in the movie is very naive, trusting and innocent.

13) Yep.

14) No. It is explicitly explained that the gas is flammable. So by setting the plane on fire he insured that the gas burned up and didn't poison anyone.

15) It didn't need to work for very long, since the general only needed to buy himself a couple of days. As long as he leaves a some troops loyal to him at the bunker to stonewall anyone who tries to get in or to call the dead generals, he could probably get the time he needed. After all, the other muckety mucks busy at the gala and all the generals are dead.

[GAZ]

I liked, but did not love this movie. Best DC movie since Dark Knight easily. Though that kinda seems like damning with faint praise this was a 7.5/8 out of 10.

SPOILERS

My main issue aside from some minor gripes is that the "villain twist" was super-duper telegraphed by how convinced Diana was that she was right about Ares's identity. There was no way it was that easy and then there was pretty much only one other option after she was proved wrong. Then for a minute there I thought Diana was going to win by not fighting like in the JLU episode with Ares and the Annihilator. The fight we got was pretty cool though so that's okay.

Minor gripes:
Where did the battleship that the Germans took to Themyscira go when they were fighting on the beach? There was shelling, so it clearly made it past the magic barrier.
Apparently the Mediterranean is one night of sailing from the Thames
In BvS and during her training Dianna's bracers go boom immediately upon deflecting an attack but with Ares's lightning she can take and hold the charge for minute
How old is Diana??? She had a normal childhood and then looked exactly the same for roughly a century between WWI and BvS. Did her training take years, decades, or millennia? Because Zeus has apparently been gone for a very long time after fathering her.
The Amazons were blessed by Zeus, not by Athena or Hera.
Smoke signals? A few miles away from German High Command? Really?
Everybody reacts to Diana entering the room in her stolen dress, but nobody notices the giant sword clearly on her back?
The fight scenes where Diana is using the lasso look super duper fake.

Things others had a problem with that I thought were fine:
Charlie couldn't shoot the sniper because he could see his face and he mentioned he only kills men he can't see and he's clearly got some kind of PTSD holding him back.
Steve and Sammy got into the gala because it's more trouble than it's worth to hold up the line of dignitaries and piss off a Colonel than deny one high officer entry to the place all the high officers are going anyway. It was a party, not a top secret war planning meeting.
Dr. Poison's mask was disintegrated by Ares to further back up his point that human kind is ugly and warlike at their core.
Diana bothers blocking bullets because she saw that bullets can kill Amazons and she didn't know she was anything more special than other Amazons until Ares told her.
Steve says he can't just ground or shoot down the plane because the gas will disperse anyway. He had to get it away from people and ensure that it was set on fire to make sure that doesn't happen.
Hippolyta and Antiope don't tell Diana the truth about her origins or what the deal with her bracer blast is because knowing the truth would make her a target for Ares.

Things I liked a bunch:
I don't know about Gal Gadot as an actress in general, but she does a terrific job with this character.
This is the first movie with Chris Pine where I actually liked both his character and his acting in the role.
All the fight scenes with swords, bows, and fists instead of the lasso looked awesome.
Ares melting eye holes through his armor was also a super sick visual.
The World War I setting was a great choice. It was a morally grey quagmire with no clear good and evil to feed into the humanity/Ares/Amazon conflict. The trenches, mustard gas, and general tech level let Diana be clearly superhuman without having to be a straight up Super(wo)man smashing though jet fighters and aircraft carriers and stuff.
Antiope always telling Diana that she's stronger than she knows clues us in that Diana is more than she appears without spelling it out the way Ares does later.
The way Diana reacts to the things in the world outside Themyscria were both entertaining and true to the character we had been following to that point.

[Ranxerox]

Frankly, my biggest gripe is

Spoiler

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By the end of the film, Diana... has no supporting cast. Steve is dead, Etta is dead, Sameer Charlie and the Chief are dead, Ares is dead, the Gods are dead, she can never return to Themiscyra... that's a pretty strange place to leave your main character. It's a similar situation to the Cap films, sure, but Cap brought Bucky as a through line for them. Diana has... Bruce Wayne? I mean, I like Batfleck, but I'd still like for Diana to have a supporting cast all her own.

Still, a solid film. I'd recommend it.

Spoiler: Etta Candy

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There is a long Wonder Woman tradition of Etta Candy being whoever the story required her to be. She has been a sorority girl at the college that Diana Prince was using as her home base, Steve Trevor's secretary, a fighter pilot and most recently a chubby, black, lesbian army officer. So, I am hoping that Wonder Woman 2 will have its own Etta Candy. Perhaps the great granddaughter to the Etta Candy in the first film.

[Douglas]

I'm waiting for reviews from non-professional movie critics I trust. The hype is annoying, but nothing so far has indicated the film itself is She-Woman Man Haters Club, though I expect a line or two criticizing men and their wars. Still, I don't want to be sucker punched.

The idea of men being evil and warlike comes up in the climactic final battle, and is promptly refuted. Minor spoiler description of it:

Spoiler

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Ares gives a speech to Diana about how violent, vengeful, warlike, etc. men are in an attempt to persuade her to join him in ridding the world of humanity so it can be an idyllic paradise again. She gives it a moment of consideration, and then responds "They are everything you said... and so much more."

Everybody reacts to Diana entering the room in her stolen dress, but nobody notices the giant sword clearly on her back?

With the way it's arranged, only the hilt is visible and even that is only visible from the back. I could easily see people thinking it's just some kind of decorative piece, especially with how thoroughly the idea of a woman with a real sword would be at odds with their expectations there.

[Renegade Paladin]

Just saw it yesterday.

Spoiler: WHY?

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So. He jumps in the bomber. With bombs. And a bomb bay. And a convenient ocean right over there.

... Why, exactly, did he need to blow himself up, again?

Also, eastern Mediterranean to the River Thames in one night in a sailboat. Riiiiiiiiight.

[LaZodiac]

Just saw it yesterday.

Spoiler: WHY?

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So. He jumps in the bomber. With bombs. And a bomb bay. And a convenient ocean right over there.

... Why, exactly, did he need to blow himself up, again?

Also, eastern Mediterranean to the River Thames in one night in a sailboat. Riiiiiiiiight.

Spoiler

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The fire was required to get rid of the poison. If he dunked it in the water it would of exploded, in the water. Making all the water get poisoned. Arguably making it spread WORSE. The bombs where on a timer and where going to blow up no matter what they did, so he did what he did to destroy the gas.

[Renegade Paladin]

Spoiler

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The fire was required to get rid of the poison. If he dunked it in the water it would of exploded, in the water. Making all the water get poisoned. Arguably making it spread WORSE. The bombs where on a timer and where going to blow up no matter what they did, so he did what he did to destroy the gas.

Spoiler

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You think a bomb explosion wouldn't ignite hydrogen and have the exact same effect? In fact the whole timer thing was dumb; unless they just plain didn't trust their pilot and bombardier at all there was no reason for it and a timed detonation would destroy the gas as sure as shooting the canisters would anyway.