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2017-07-12, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- ICU, under a cherry tree.
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse
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2017-07-12, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- The Imagination
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Wow, thirteen pages. I've never had a thread I started go beyond three pages before.
Life goals!Last edited by Fiery Diamond; 2017-07-12 at 04:10 PM.
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2017-07-12, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Last edited by Peelee; 2017-07-12 at 02:56 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2017-07-12, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- The Imagination
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2017-07-12, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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- Toledo, Ohio
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
One I've encountered today that has always bugged me is arbitrarily narrowing a definition. In this case, insisting that an umbrella term can only be used to refer to one of the terms it is under.
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2017-07-12, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Watching the world go by
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
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2017-07-12, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
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- Toledo, Ohio
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
That is a good example, and I did in fact word it wrongly.
Another example would be claiming that the word "Whiskey" can only ever be used to refer to Bourbon, and using it to refer to Jameson is wrong.
Most of the cases I encounter it are more narrow, but of similar sort.
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2017-07-12, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
A related one is when people insist that "fantasy" can refer only to a work of fiction that fits an extremely narrow set of criteria, typically modeled after the speaker's favorite franchise. For example, if someone's favorite author is C.S. Lewis, they might insist that any work of fiction which is neither written by Lewis nor an extremely derivative clone of Narnia is "not really fantasy." Lewis can be swapped out for whoever the speaker's favorite author happens to be
A slight variation is when someone asserts that "standard fantasy" is whatever their favorite author wrote, while "really weird, obscure" fantasy is everything else.
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2017-07-12, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Watching the world go by
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
I have never seen anyone do that. I'll buy categorizing "standard fantasy" as works in the same milleau as Tolken or Lewis with a generally medieval society and technology, magic, dragons, and sword-fights. "Urban Fantasy" I would define as "magic and magical creatures in the modern world, masquerade optional." I'm not sure what I am missing, so please elucidate further.
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2017-07-12, 11:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- France
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
In French, I'm used to "fantastique" being used for the type of fantasy that takes place in our world/universe, especially when it doesn't affect everyone's life (Harry Potter would be an example. Lovecraft would probably qualify too) and "fantasy" for the type of fantasy that takes place in another wolrd/universe with no indication that ours exists (Tolkien falls into that category). I wasn't aware of a similar distinction in English but I guess "Urban fantasy" (with your definition) probably matches what I call "fantastique" (which really is just the old French word for "fantasy", before we adopted the English one).
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2017-07-13, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
I always thought the term for fantasy set in the "real" world was magic realism?
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2017-07-13, 04:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Magical realism is set in the "real" world (at least generally), and urban fantasy doesn't really have to be. With that said, there's plenty of stuff that is very obviously urban fantasy and is set in a real city. Magical realism doesn't tend to have magic users in any real sense, or even magical beings - it has characters that generally fit cleanly in literary fiction, in settings that almost fit cleanly in literary fiction except for they have magic as a setting element as something that just sort of happens - usually in such a way as to emphasize the emotional weight of a scene.
Just look at the books categorized in these genres - One Hundred Years of Solitude and Dresden Files are clearly in different genres. Then there's stuff like the Narnia series or the Fionavar Tapestry, which has characters from the real world, who spend time in the real world, but which are mostly secondary world fantasy.Last edited by Knaight; 2017-07-13 at 04:52 AM.
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2017-07-13, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Quebec, Canada
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
I think you're right about the colloquial usage but "fantastique" has a rather strict definition and this is the thread to be pedantic about that sort of thing so... It's a story where the supernatural intrudes on the rational world in a way the characters usually either reject or fight. Maupassant is probably the best known author of "fantastique" in French, a lot of Poe's and Lovecraft's work also qualifies. What we call fantasy in english is usually referred to as "merveilleux". But most bookstores I've been to make the same mistake as you so I won't hold it against you :)
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2017-07-15, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2017-07-15, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
This is going to be controversial but I object to the redefinition of the words "man" "woman" and "gender" that have been forced down our throats in recent years. It's may be well intentioned, and it may make some people feel better and better reflect how they feel on the inside, but it's simply not what the words mean or have ever meant prior to the past several decades. The closest it's ever been is a social role or affect display, but never the affect itself or an affinity for the social role (at least not primarily, these things may have occasionally factored into a usage but never had a controlling share as it were). And to be clear I'm talking about those specific words, I'm sure there must be a language somewhere with a word connonly translated by these words that had a different specific historical meaning (and if there is I suggest switching to using those words as loanwords)
I also object to the redefinition of the redefinition of the word "planet". It was needless and it wasn't applied consistently; if I understamd it correctly then technically Neptune shouldn't be a planet for the same reason that Pluto doesn't meet the definition, the orbits of the two bodies intersect"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2017-07-15, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2017-07-15, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
If dwarf planets don't qualify as something big enough to need to be cleared to qualify as a full planet then half of them should be back to being full planets again
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2017-07-15, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2017-07-16, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
The thing stopping them from qualifying is that their orbits intersect with those of other dwarf planets (and other smaller celestial bodies). If dwarf planets are too snall for intersecting with one's orbit to matter for full planet status then a significant chunk of them of them stop being disqualified from being full planets (but the remaining ones remain dwarves because they are now intersecting with the orbits of full planets)
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2017-07-16, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
This is the first I've ever heard of intersecting orbits mattering. The criteria it fails is that Pluto hasn't "cleared the neighborhood." It's kind of a way of saying that Pluto doesn't have enough gravity to be a planet. Orbits intersecting with other bodily orbits can still happen. As you yourself put it, Pluto's and Neptune's orbits still intersect, and Neptune is still a planet. The difference is, Neptune has enough gravity to dominate it's area. Pluto doesn't, which is why it hasn't.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2017-07-16, 01:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Calgary, AB
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
To put it another way, Neptune has an orbit that crosses over with some junk, but doesn't have much in the same orbit that it has that isn't also orbiting Neptune. Pluto, meanwhile, is in roughly the same orbit as every other hunk of rock and ice in the Kuiper Belt. They aren't planets for a similar reason that we don't usually call Saturn's rings, moons.
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2017-07-16, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Australia
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
The only language thing that bugs me irrationally is when people write u, ur, etc instead of you, your, and so on. Im not trying to be judgemental or anything, but the moment someone does that they instantly become less of a person to me. I feel like I'm talking to a wall or a robot or something, but then that's probably because of the amount of times I'll be playing an online game or something, and someone is typing like that and they just seem stupid. Not everyone of course, but its happened so many times that I see people doing that, along with spamming multiple ??????????? instead of just one, and they can't seem to grasp a single thing I say to them.
I let it slide in text messages, since it can be a little more awkward to type the whole word out, but people doing it on a computer (or the way my sister used to do it in handwritten letters) would make me so angry. It just seemed so lazy.
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2017-07-16, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
30-ish years ago, this exact argument was done about the word 'gay', and how it was "meant" to mean 'happy'. Language usage evolves - it is not a misuse, it is the natural process by which meanings adapt.
In 1846, Neptune was discovered, and it became the 13th planet of the solar system, for about 5 years. The current issue with Pluto mirrors the issue then with Ceres. The solution now is the same as the solution then: accept that objects in an asteroid belt aren't planets.
Agreed, but, like with 'gay' and 'gender' above, and the 'centre-center/colour-color' divide, I can see it catching on, and 'u' becoming a valid spelling for 'you'.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2017-07-16 at 03:32 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2017-07-16, 05:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Bristol
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Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
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2017-07-16, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2017-07-16, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Political action is not the same as governmental action. Arguably, every action undertaken by a collection of people is political including ones you now think of as "natural" (hint: gay parades and similar popular movements had a lot to do with the general propagation of the current meaning of 'gay'), but given they lack any dominance of any of the four estates in any country I can think of, it cannot be called Orwellian.
GWInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-07-16, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
We get that you think that we, and the things that we do, are unnatural and we get that you're not fine with us. You don't have to tell us again.
Though "Orwellian" is a bit of a laugh given the attempts to teach us that we don't exist, that we should act like "Normal" people, and that we love big brother. The "You're not allowed to use language to describe yourself in the way which is natural to you because it isn't natural to ME, dammit" attitude is also concerning.Last edited by Jormengand; 2017-07-16 at 11:09 AM.
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2017-07-16, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Don't get me started on people who think irony and sarcasm are the same.
Is too! :D Come to think of it, there must be a "monster" (quotes because it doesn't look like a monster, just derpy and cuddly) description for an alot.
Which reminds me, the pronounciation of "Indianapolis". Etymologically it's obviously Indiana-polis, but it seems everyone pronounces it India-napolis.
Well, Ham is obviously the thing that a hamlet is the diminutive of.
I once got 10.5 in an English test because the teacher had added up the total max incorrectly. :D
More properly called "alt text".
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2017-07-16, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
I know transsexual people exist. I never said that they didn't or anything even close to denying that they do. There are many men who identify as women and many women who identify as men and they are men and women respectively because the words refer to reproductive structures rather than states of mind or quarternary sex characteristics in the brain. I'm not saying that how the language works is a good thing either; it's bad and it's sad but that's still the fact of what the words mean. Just because it's bad doesn't mean it isn't true. Global warming isn't good either but it's true and people have to deal with it.
Just as faith can not really move mountains, how you feel on the inside doesn't change the facts of language or biology It is impossible for things of the mind to directly override things of the world or of culture.
I daresay that in 20 years time it will be an accepted mainstream meaning, and if it becomes so then I shall have to accept it as such because my mind has no more power or relevance to the world than anybody else's, but it is not a correct mainstream usage now, so until that time I will continue to be bothered by it.Last edited by Bohandas; 2017-07-16 at 01:48 PM.
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2017-07-16, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: Completely unimportant language misuses that bug you
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est