Erfworld Thread X: A Series of Unfortunate Cliffhangers

[DataNinja]

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Pretty sure the Great Minds aren't the towers. These are just like Jed, the cities personified. But, their (GM and tower) philosophy does seem to be the Syndrome school: If everyone's cheating equally, nobody is.

[guttering flame]

Spoiler: new comic

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the page arrangement screws the surprise/timeline. We see the new TowerHead before the clueless Jillian. She should be at the top of the page while crosseyed TowerHead appears below. Also, maybe trim down Jillian's speech. Like drastically.

[DigoDragon]

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Pretty sure the Great Minds aren't the towers. These are just like Jed, the cities personified. But, their (GM and tower) philosophy does seem to be the Syndrome school: If everyone's cheating equally, nobody is.

Yeah, that philosophy bothers me. Parson has an advantage during a battle going poorly for him, and then everyone gets it. Maybe. Charlie's tower doesn't seem to be doing him any favors, so maybe it's not a complete loss.

[Whispri]

SKIP day? Seems like it.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

SKIP 1.

Date	# Skipped
10/6/17	1st
10/20/17	2nd
11/7/17	1st
11/14/17	2nd
11/21/17	3rd
12/5/17	1st

I'm curious about a lot of plotlines but I kinda wish it was still just focused on 2 sides at most, or would do a whole arc and then flash back. Some of each arc is intriguing, its just not formatted in a way that helps.

[Jasdoif]

I'm curious about a lot of plotlines but I kinda wish it was still just focused on 2 sides at most, or would do a whole arc and then flash back. Some of each arc is intriguing, its just not formatted in a way that helps.

Agreed; the focused two-sided back-and-forth between Lilith and Charlescomm has certainly been the best part of this book so far. But right now, it feels like there are too many actors in too many disparate arcs; like they're drifting away from each other in a set of side stories instead supporting each other to promote a central plot.

[JeenLeen]

The newspost today was nice.

Anyone catch what 'old barber' is an anagram for?

[LasVegasLawyer]

The newspost today was nice.

Anyone catch what 'old barber' is an anagram for?

Robber Lad?
Blader Rob?

[Jasdoif]

The newspost today was nice.

Well, it rather clearly shows that Rob doesn't understand the problem. Having too many arcs in flight at the same time, he's complaining about the fullness of the sky and everything taking longer than it used to.

It's also kind of funny reading him say that spending hours trying to find a specific kind of illustration for an update, just to decide at the last minute that the update didn't need the illustration, isn't perfectionism.

[DataNinja]

The newspost today was nice.

Anyone catch what 'old barber' is an anagram for?

Rob Balder.

[Gez]

The newspost today was nice.

Anyone catch what 'old barber' is an anagram for?

Barrel Bod
Barbel Rod
Bob Larder
Bled Arbor
Bred Labor
Lad Robber
Rad Lobber
Blob Darer
Bald Borer
Rob Be Lard
Lard Be Orb

[-D-]

Well, it rather clearly shows that Rob doesn't understand the problem. Having too many arcs in flight at the same time, he's complaining about the fullness of the sky and everything taking longer than it used to.

It's also kind of funny reading him say that spending hours trying to find a specific kind of illustration for an update, just to decide at the last minute that the update didn't need the illustration, isn't perfectionism.

Sure, but Rob's hands are tied. It's not like he can do literally anything, and cut number of viewpoints...

If you give upon perfectionism in the last second, it's not perfectionism. It's just semi-perfectionism.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Agreed; the focused two-sided back-and-forth between Lilith and Charlescomm has certainly been the best part of this book so far. But right now, it feels like there are too many actors in too many disparate arcs; like they're drifting away from each other in a set of side stories instead supporting each other to promote a central plot.

Wheel of Time syndrome, if you will...

I do appreciate the news update. Part of me feels like he shouldn't have needed to post it, but I think with the vitriol his skips were getting, he wanted to show his hand a bit. Ultimately, the story is harder to write because of a few things.

A. It's book 3 4, and he has a lot of content to consider now as he stated in the post. He's made errors in the past he's had to retcon, so I feel he's even more careful now in posting so he doesn't have to do that. He kind of alluded at that.

B. It's a pretty full sky right now. Compare book 1 and even book 2 to now. We had 2 perspectives in Book 1, with the occasional float off to follow an off character as they left the main scene. The transitions were fluid for the most part. They really aren't now, and I reference Wheel of Time series above, and its kind of that. Each chapter in wheel of time was a different point of view when you got to the middle of the series. Sometimes you would only see the overarching main character once or twice in a whole book. I just hope that as Rob continues, the story gets less cluttered. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the points of view of different people in the story. I like the text updates for the most part. I guess I get it since Parson in this book is kinda the B role instead of the A role, but really, I'm not sure where the A role is at this point. As Rob said, there's a Protagonist ball that's getting passed around, and that's I think the identifiable issue for his efforts to write the story, and for the story from our stand point. It's a bit jarring, massive, and slows the pace. But its the gambit he made, and the story he wants to write, so he'll either learn from it, improve on it, or not, I suppose.

In other news, I understand that he's working hard, and finding that writing the comic is hard work. And the family issues are unfortunate, and I hope get better for him. I'm glad he is at least realizing the bed he's made with the story, and creatively it was neat to see a little behind the scenes.

[Aquillion]

TBH the one thing he should have done was avoid the word "skips" and just said "Erfworld is a weekly comic now, with 1-3 bonus updates a month when time permits."

[fionabell]

Thanks for sharing)

[Anteros]

TBH the one thing he should have done was avoid the word "skips" and just said "Erfworld is a weekly comic now, with 1-3 bonus updates a month when time permits."

That's a much better spin, but would require him to not miss updates for an entire week, which he probably doesn't want to guarantee.

Wheel of Time syndrome, if you will...

Sure, but in WoT the skipping around served a larger purpose. It progressed multiple different plots around the world at once and did a good job of showing a living world as a whole.

Most of the skipping around in Erfworld happens for no reason.

We don't need multiple scenes of some dirtmancer we don't care about joining Charlie when the exact same thing could be accomplished by having him show up in one comic panel in Charlie's colors. The reader is smart enough to assume Charlie convinced him.

We don't need repeated scenes of Vanna, Ben, etc showing that they still have the same motivations they had 5 comics ago. The reader is smart enough to figure out they're behind whatever is about to go wrong.

We don't need 10 updates of Wanda wandering around underground forming some nebulous plan when we could just see her enact it. The reader is smart enough to assume she has some sort of plan.

We don't need all the updates about Charlie recovering when the same thing can be accomplished by showing him recovered when he makes his next move. The reader is smart enough to know he has to recover before he can act again. Are you noticing a pattern?

Somewhere along the way Rob forgot about "show, don't tell" rule of writing and the comic has been suffering greatly for it ever since. He doesn't trust his readers to infer obvious plot points and wants to spell them all out in painful detail.

[The Glyphstone]

Somewhere along the way Rob forgot about "show, don't tell" rule of writing and the comic has been suffering greatly for it ever since. He doesn't trust his readers to infer obvious plot points and wants to spell them all out in painful detail.

Isn't his problem the exact opposite, then? Rather than forgetting it, he's taking 'show, don't tell' to an unreasonable extreme by showing everything in exacting bit-by-bit detail, even stuff that could be shown more concisely or just inferred.

[Anteros]

Isn't his problem the exact opposite, then? Rather than forgetting it, he's taking 'show, don't tell' to an unreasonable extreme by showing everything in exacting bit-by-bit detail, even stuff that could be shown more concisely or just inferred.

I suppose you could view it that way, but what I meant is that he's only showing us these characters so that he can tell us every step of their plans and motivations. He could just be showing us what happens and let the reader infer the obvious stuff in between.

[The Glyphstone]

Fair enough.

[Douglas]

I think your assessment of what "the reader is smart enough to know/figure out" is way off. I'd estimate rather extreme odds that if Rob actually did what you suggest in those four examples there would be an overwhelming reaction of "when did that Dirtamancer join Charlie?", "what the hell, why did that go wrong?", "since when does Wanda make plans like that?", "when/how did Charlie recover, wasn't he completely out of it?", etc. He might be showing things at greater length than strictly necessary, but these things do need to be shown.

[Razade]

The biggest problem is that Rob has burned through as much good will as he can and then some. There's always a Family Emergency or a reason Rob can't update at the promised speed he's set for himself. Rob promises way too much and never is able to deliver on half the things he's assured people he's going to get to. People, despite this, continue to give him money which is more than their right to do. Their money after all. The most surprising thing is that people are still this surprised.

[virgileso]

The biggest problem is that Rob has burned through as much good will as he can and then some. There's always a Family Emergency or a reason Rob can't update at the promised speed he's set for himself. Rob promises way too much and never is able to deliver on half the things he's assured people he's going to get to. People, despite this, continue to give him money which is more than their right to do. Their money after all. The most surprising thing is that people are still this surprised.

The only Kickstarter of Erfworld I backed was for the playing cards, which I got.
via Imgflip Meme Generator

[Razade]

The only Kickstarter of Erfworld I backed was for the playing cards, which I got.

I mean, that's nice for you. There's still several baker stories that haven't been done at all. From years ago. I don't really feel like going through a list of things promised and unfulfilled. I don't have that kinda time honestly.

[Anteros]

I think your assessment of what "the reader is smart enough to know/figure out" is way off. I'd estimate rather extreme odds that if Rob actually did what you suggest in those four examples there would be an overwhelming reaction of "when did that Dirtamancer join Charlie?", "what the hell, why did that go wrong?", "since when does Wanda make plans like that?", "when/how did Charlie recover, wasn't he completely out of it?", etc. He might be showing things at greater length than strictly necessary, but these things do need to be shown.

You're right of course, my examples were too extreme. I was just making a point though. My point was that most of this stuff can be conveyed in a far more succinct manner and we don't need to re-tread the same ground for multiple updates.

[Chromascope3D]

The biggest problem is that Rob has burned through as much good will as he can and then some. There's always a Family Emergency or a reason Rob can't update at the promised speed he's set for himself. Rob promises way too much and never is able to deliver on half the things he's assured people he's going to get to. People, despite this, continue to give him money which is more than their right to do. Their money after all. The most surprising thing is that people are still this surprised.

Peter Molyneux reborn?

[Razade]

Peter Molyneux reborn?

I think it's fair to say good'ol Peter is...much worse than Rob. I mean. Erfworld may be something but it's not Godus.

[cervidal]

The amount of self-pity his fan base lets him get away with is utterly astonishing.

Worse, the righteous indignation he displays is beyond belief.

"I really hope this post was worth spending more than half my productive time today, and not getting to the bank to do an important business thing, and missing my old barber who only cuts hair on Wednesday"

He ought to be ashamed of himself. He acts like he's basically punishing the readers because of the criticism.

If you're giving this guy money, you're only reinforcing his awful behavior.

It's an interesting story, but I wouldn't put any money on it getting to its conclusion. I'm stunned he hasn't given it away like he did his last comic endeavor.

[halfeye]

Spoiler: new text episode

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Erm, not sure about this one.

There's a lot going on, but we get about five or six scene changes just when there's about to be some information in the scene that was just cut.

[smuchmuch]

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I know i shoud be annoyed how aboutthis is yet another text update than doesn't advance the plot much but... I actualy think this text update is pretty funny (the final illustration kinda crack me up). I particularly lik the 'magic word' reaction.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

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I know i shoud be annoyed how aboutthis is yet another text update than doesn't advance the plot much but... I actualy think this text update is pretty funny (the final illustration kinda crack me up). I particularly lik the 'magic word' reaction.

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Was any one else confused in the conversation with Jojo? I couldn't follow a lot of the beginning of it.