Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

In Wild though, where all those juicy Naxxramas and Goblins vs Gnomes cards that made deathrattle such a mainstay back in the day are still at your beck and call? Oh yeah, it would see play there.

Don't forget Tomb Pillager! You could build a pretty mean curve with exclusively deathrattles, just for synergy here.

Zombie Chow, Thalnos, Haunted Creeper, Undercity Huckster, Piloted Shredder, Tomb Pillager, Xaril, Sludge Belcher, Sylvanas, Cairne, Sneed's makes 17 minions, and you could also throw in Loot Hoarders for 19 Deathrattle minions. Add in Unearthed Raptors for copying fun, that's 21 cards. Throw in a package of double Eviscerate, double Shadow Strike, double Mimic Pod, double Dry Bones, and a Backstab to round it out...that's not a bad deck outline. I guess you basically just keep dropping lots of minions, doing Rogue things, and once you get a Dry Bones, you know you can overextend because you stand a good chance of chaining a bunch of deathrattle draws.

[Yana]

All you're missing there is N'zoth.

[PsyBomb]

All you're missing there is N'zoth.

Oddly, although that's likely the kind of deck N'zoth was originally meant to support, it's less effective in that kind of build than in ones with more limited (4-6) deathrattle lineups. Way less control over what you get, so if you don't get lucky you might lowball and get zero taunts, then have an enemy steamroll you through it.

I will say that Valeera the Hollow might be good in this deck, though. Doubling up major drops could do interesting things to the field, even if you have to actually cast them.

[Joran]

I just got 2k Dust for just logging in. Maybe you want to do the same.

As Haruspex_Pariah said, this is recompense for a bug that happened about 2-3 weeks ago. Blizzard was implementing the new pack opening logic and reset everybody's pity timers (you're guaranteed a legendary after 40 pack opens and an epic every 10 opens). Some players were close to hitting their pity timer, so this meant they missed a legendary or epic when they should have received one.

Not every player gets one, only the ones that Blizzard through some query determined missed a card.

[Gandariel]

Oddly, although that's likely the kind of deck N'zoth was originally meant to support, it's less effective in that kind of build than in ones with more limited (4-6) deathrattle lineups. Way less control over what you get, so if you don't get lucky you might lowball and get zero taunts, then have an enemy steamroll you through it.

I will say that Valeera the Hollow might be good in this deck, though. Doubling up major drops could do interesting things to the field, even if you have to actually cast them.

I don't think Rogue DK would be good there.

While I think the DK is actually pretty good, its "intended" use is as a finisher.

If the game is going to go for many more turns, the stealth effect is useless (you weren't going to die or take much damage anyways), and what you get is only the double card thingy. But in that case, I'd just run Sprint and get the extra cards immediately, and all together.

The best use for the DK is probably to use it as an Ice Block: attack face with everything, play the DK, then shoot your hand burst combo next turn (with the double card thingy) and win the game.
Maybe with Malygos, now that I think about it.


@ the above deck list: I'd toss the Mimic Pods (weak card) and maybe shadow strike too. I'd probably cut Thalnos too.
Replace with second backstab, Patches and two Swashburglars. Maybe a Southsea Deckhand or two.

[tonberrian]

Cards:

Spoiler

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Fallen Sun Cleric - 2 mana neutral common, 2/1, Battlecry: Give a friendly minion +1/+1


Acolyte of Agony - 3 mana priest common, 3/3, Lifesteal


Drakkari Defender - 3 mana shaman common, 2/8, Overload 3, Taunt.

Yaaaaawn.

[Chen]

Cards:

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Drakari defender could result in some nice shennanigans with potion of madness and divine spirit/inner fire. I think overload 3 on turn 4 is too big a downside though for that to be really playable.

[Divayth Fyr]

Spoiler: Shadowreaper Anduin

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Legendary Priest Hero 8
Battlecry: Destroy all minions with 5 or more Attack.
5


Hero Power: Voidform 2


Deal 2 damage. After you play a card, refresh this.

[Seerow]

Spoiler: Shadowreaper Anduin

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Legendary Priest Hero 8
Battlecry: Destroy all minions with 5 or more Attack.
5


Hero Power: Voidform 2


Deal 2 damage. After you play a card, refresh this.

I know this was basically inevitable, but shadow form was my least favorite priest archetype, and I sincerely hope I don't pull this card, despite priest bring my most played class.

Still looking forward to the other shenanigans from the new rez/deathrattle toys.

[Zevox]

Cards:

Spoiler

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Fallen Sun Cleric - 2 mana neutral common, 2/1, Battlecry: Give a friendly minion +1/+1


Acolyte of Agony - 3 mana priest common, 3/3, Lifesteal


Drakkari Defender - 3 mana shaman common, 2/8, Overload 3, Taunt.

Yaaaaawn.

"Yawn" is right.

Fallen Sun Cleric - Shattered Sun Cleric's little brother. Decent to good for arena, not good enough for constructed.
Acolyte of Agony - Pure arena card, too vanilla for constructed. Lifesteal's not strong enough to make 3/3 for 3 not mediocre, especially in the class with the most healing already.
Drakkari Defender - Kind of like Ancestral Knowledge, I think this is a card that could perhaps have been good if it has one less Overload. As-is though, it's a 3 drop with big stats that you hate playing on 3 because it wrecks your ability to do anything on turn 4. That's not good. And honestly, it's a strange total mana cost for the stats - that's 6 mana for a 2/8 with taunt. We have an actual 3/8 taunt for 6, Ancient of Blossoms, and it's awful, so the overload amount doesn't even make sense from that perspective. By comparison, Flamewreathed Faceless was 7/7 for a total of 6 mana, and that was enough to actually be good for a while, but even it fell out of use in time. So, yeah, this just looks really bad. I'm not even sure it'll be okay in arena.

Spoiler: Shadowreaper Anduin

Show

Legendary Priest Hero 8
Battlecry: Destroy all minions with 5 or more Attack.
5


Hero Power: Voidform 2


Deal 2 damage. After you play a card, refresh this.

Yeah, that's...iffy. As with the Shadow Words in general, the problem with the battlecry is that not all serious threats to you will be 5+ attack, so it may be a dead effect. And the hero power isn't that impressive, honestly, because the mana cost of reusing it will add up fast. 2 mana per use plus the cost of the cards that refresh it means there's no way you're getting more than three uses in one turn unless you've saved the coin or stolen Innervate or Counterfeit Coin, and most likely two will be the normal cap. If you're running higher-cost cards, as you would expect if you're running an 8-cost Hero card, you may often get only one use, in which case it's just Shadowform with that AoE SW: Death tacked on.

Yeah, this is the first hero that I feel pretty comfortable saying it just isn't good enough to see play. If that hero power were good enough to spend a card/turn on then I think Shadowform would see play already, and it doesn't and never has, so what that mainly leaves us with is the AoE Death, which is too situational to get consistent good use out of, I think.

[Seerow]

"Yawn" is right.

Fallen Sun Cleric - Shattered Sun Cleric's little brother. Decent to good for arena, not good enough for constructed.
Acolyte of Agony - Pure arena card, too vanilla for constructed. Lifesteal's not strong enough to make 3/3 for 3 not mediocre, especially in the class with the most healing already.
Drakkari Defender - Kind of like Ancestral Knowledge, I think this is a card that could perhaps have been good if it has one less Overload. As-is though, it's a 3 drop with big stats that you hate playing on 3 because it wrecks your ability to do anything on turn 4. That's not good. And honestly, it's a strange total mana cost for the stats - that's 6 mana for a 2/8 with taunt. We have an actual 3/8 taunt for 6, Ancient of Blossoms, and it's awful, so the overload amount doesn't even make sense from that perspective. By comparison, Flamewreathed Faceless was 7/7 for a total of 6 mana, and that was enough to actually be good for a while, but even it fell out of use in time. So, yeah, this just looks really bad. I'm not even sure it'll be okay in arena.


Yeah, that's...iffy. As with the Shadow Words in general, the problem with the battlecry is that not all serious threats to you will be 5+ attack, so it may be a dead effect. And the hero power isn't that impressive, honestly, because the mana cost of reusing it will add up fast. 2 mana per use plus the cost of the cards that refresh it means there's no way you're getting more than three uses in one turn unless you've saved the coin or stolen Innervate or Counterfeit Coin, and most likely two will be the normal cap. If you're running higher-cost cards, as you would expect if you're running an 8-cost Hero card, you may often get only one use, in which case it's just Shadowform with that AoE SW: Death tacked on.

Yeah, this is the first hero that I feel pretty comfortable saying it just isn't good enough to see play. If that hero power were good enough to spend a card/turn on then I think Shadowform would see play already, and it doesn't and never has, so what that mainly leaves us with is the AoE Death, which is too situational to get consistent good use out of, I think.

While I am not interested in it, the refresh mechanic has potential in a Raza combo deck. Imagine getting a good Lyra turn where every spell you cast also deals two damage.

That said it's a bunch of setup and unlikely to come together in any given game. But I fully expect some fun highlight videos.

[Zevox]

While I am not interested in it, the refresh mechanic has potential in a Raza combo deck. Imagine getting a good Lyra turn where every spell you cast also deals two damage.

That said it's a bunch of setup and unlikely to come together in any given game. But I fully expect some fun highlight videos.

Hm, that is very true, I'd completely forgotten about Raza. But that then turns it into a Highlander deck in a post-Reno era - I'm not so sure that can be done at this point. It is probably the only hope that card has of seeing play, though.

[Destro_Yersul]

I dunno, I think it's alright. Don't forget you also get the five armour, so this card is AoE:SWD, Shadowform+, and Iron Hide all rolled up into one. Shadowform and SWD are 3 mana each, and Iron Hide is 1, so as long as you can hit two minions with the SWD part of it, it's value, and even with 1 it's ok. The Reason Shadowform didn't get used much is because spending the mana to just change your hero power was slow and only good lategame - dealling two damage is a really good hero power, it's just that the card doesn't do anything else. This card does something else.

[Techwarrior]

Yea, I saw the Priest hero and immediately thought RenoPriest in Wild, likely with a deathrattle control package and Lyra to reload later on.

[Zevox]

I dunno, I think it's alright. Don't forget you also get the five armour, so this card is AoE:SWD, Shadowform+, and Iron Hide all rolled up into one. Shadowform and SWD are 3 mana each, and Iron Hide is 1, so as long as you can hit two minions with the SWD part of it, it's value, and even with 1 it's ok. The Reason Shadowform didn't get used much is because spending the mana to just change your hero power was slow and only good lategame - dealling two damage is a really good hero power, it's just that the card doesn't do anything else. This card does something else.

I'm not putting any real value on the armor the Hero cards all give, honestly. It feels like it'll do little but help you survive spending a turn playing the Hero card in the first place.

So, Trump's latest card review video included two cards I haven't seen posted here before. Maybe I just missed them, but I wanted to give thoughts anyway, so:

Lilian Voss, Rogue Legendary, 4 mana 4/5. Battlecry: replace all spells in your hand with random spells from your opponent's class.
- Kind of interesting. Solid stats for the cost, odd and iffy effect. Trump pointed out the effect should be great with cheap tokeny spells like Razorpetals, Xaril's poisons, or (Counterfeit) Coin, which is true from a value perspective, though I can't help but think that any Rogue deck running Razorpetals or Counterfeit Coin is going to prefer going for Gadgetzan combos into a win condition, not value. And on the flip side it's also entirely possible to trade down since the new cards are random, turning an Eviscerate into a Freezing Potion or the like. But it is interesting to note that it curves perfectly into the 5/6 for 5 that reduces the cost of non-Rogue cards in your hand, which could be a pretty potent combination. Maybe it can help make a midrangey, more value-oriented Rogue into a thing someday, but I'm skeptical that day will come with this set specifically.

Unwilling Sacrifice, Warlock rare, 3 mana spell. Choose a friendly minion. Destroy it and a random enemy minion.
- Basically requires you to have tokens to sacrifice in order to be good, which Warlock currently doesn't do, especially since Imp Gang Boss left Standard. Until and unless Warlock gets support for a deck with a lot of tokens, you're happier just using Blastcrystal Potion instead of this, I think.

[Mando Knight]

Hm, that is very true, I'd completely forgotten about Raza. But that then turns it into a Highlander deck in a post-Reno era - I'm not so sure that can be done at this point. It is probably the only hope that card has of seeing play, though.

It's a Highlander deck in the only class that has enough healing cards that Reno could even approach being considered superfluous. That said, it's definitely still a Kibler-y Timmy/Johnny card rather than a serious "55% aggregate winrate on ladder" deck. Fitting that it was revealed on a stream he co-hosted.

[Divayth Fyr]

Spoiler: Frost Clone

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Common Mage Spell 3
Secret: When your opponent plays a minion, add two copies of it to your hand.

Spoiler: Play Dead

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Common Hunter Spell 1
Triger a friendly minion's deathrattle

Spoiler: Fluffy Felbeast

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Common Warlock Minion 3
Whenever this minion takes damage, discard a card.
3/6 Demon

Spoiler: Deathspeaker

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Common Neutral Minion 3
Whenever this minion takes damage, discard a card.
2/4

Spoiler: Rattling Rascal

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Epic Neutral Minion 4
Battlecry: Summon a 5/5 Skeleton. Deathrattle: Summon a 5/5 Skeleton for your opponent.
2/2

[otakuryoga]

Spoiler: Frost Clone

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Common Mage Spell 3
Secret: When your opponent plays a minion, add two copies of it to your hand.

value

Spoiler: Play Dead

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Common Hunter Spell 1
Triger a friendly minion's deathrattle

dont they already have this EXACT card in feign death?

Spoiler: Fluffy Felbeast

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Common Warlock Minion 3
Whenever this minion takes damage, discard a card.
3/6 Demon

that could be real bad as we have seen with hydra

Spoiler: Deathspeaker

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Common Neutral Minion 3
Whenever this minion takes damage, discard a card.
2/4

good for arena

Spoiler: Rattling Rascal

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Epic Neutral Minion 4
Battlecry: Summon a 5/5 Skeleton. Deathrattle: Summon a 5/5 Skeleton for your opponent.
2/2

hmmm, didnt we see a "give minion to opponent" card earlier?
well, here is it's best buddy

[Destro_Yersul]

New Cards:

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Frost CLone: Pretty good for Arena, but suffers from the same problems as Mirror Image. Might get run in secret mage. Probably rather have mirror, though.
Play Dead: Hilarious in Wild with exactly Sylvanas, but probably not worth it.
Fluffy Felbeast: Will get experimented with in Discolock. 3 mana for a 3/6 is absolutely insane. Pair with the 2 mana legendary for hilarious value.
Deathspeaker: Arena card. Stats aren't great, but if you use it to trade with something then it's kind of like it has a lot of extra stats.
Rattling Rascal: Adorable. I want one. Also, it's a 4 mana 7/7. The MEMES. Pretty bad, though.

[Divayth Fyr]

dont they already have this EXACT card in feign death?

Of course not. Feign Death costs one more, is epic and triggers all of your deathrattles.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

TBH I feel like Shadowreaper Anduin may legit see play. Primarily because after having played Raza and Reaper, the Lyra-Elemental-Elemental combo basically reads "win the game". Each of those 3 is 6 mana, then you can gattling gun your spells for more damage, nevermind the actual effect of said spells (you could totally run 2 elementals in your highlander, if you have no other duplicates in your deck).

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Frost Clone

Show

Common Mage Spell 3
Secret: When your opponent plays a minion, add two copies of it to your hand.

Spoiler: Play Dead

Show

Common Hunter Spell 1
Triger a friendly minion's deathrattle

Spoiler: Fluffy Felbeast

Show

Common Warlock Minion 3
Whenever this minion takes damage, discard a card.
3/6 Demon

Spoiler: Deathspeaker

Show

Common Neutral Minion 3
Whenever this minion takes damage, discard a card.
2/4

Spoiler: Rattling Rascal

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Epic Neutral Minion 4
Battlecry: Summon a 5/5 Skeleton. Deathrattle: Summon a 5/5 Skeleton for your opponent.
2/2

Frost Clone: So, it's basically reverse Duplicate - gives you copies of an opponent's minion instead of your own. Which will usually be worse, because you have less control over what you get, and it's less likely to synergize with your deck. And Duplicate itself never saw much constructed use - Grinder Mage and Echo Mage were kind of fringey decks for a bit, but never much more. So, I'm thinking this is going to be like a somewhat weaker Duplicate: no constructed play, not even that good for arena, due to being so slow and out of your control.

Play Dead: With Sylvanas rotated out, there's not that many deathrattles that worth a card in their own right. Highmane, Cairne... that's about it. You're not thrilled hitting something like Infested Wolf or Kindly Grandmother with this. Maybe Rat Pack with a Houndmaster buff would be good, but that's pretty situational. Yeah, I don't think there's enough good targets for this, so I believe it won't see play.

Fluffy Fellbeast: Terrible. 3/6 is great stats for 3, but that drawback can lose you the game easily - particularly given that the whole reason 3/6 is great for 3 is because it will be able to trade well against the smaller minions you'd expect at that cost, but because of that effect, that's not even that good for you. Compare it to Lakarri Felhound, which is +1 mana for +2 health and taunt, and a flat discard of 2, which is the minimum you can typically expect this to cost you (it could easily end up discarding 3, sometimes even more). Yeah, this won't see play.

Deathspeaker: Reminiscent of Stablemaster or Argent Protector. Yeah, this is an arena card through and through.

Rattling Rascal: Looked pretty bad at first glance, but yeah, this is actually a great one for Warlock to play Treachery on. That may be too specific though, since it seems like you'll never be okay playing it without that combo, and the way constructed-quality combos work is that each card needs to be able to do something in either multiple possible combos or on its own.

[Seerow]

Play Dead on Kindly Grandmother would be 1 mana to summon a 3/2. You won't be ecstatic, but it is hardly the worst use of 1 mana you could have.


I'll admit, I want it to see play only so it is available for priest to steal, to trigger Obsidian.

[Zevox]

Play Dead on Kindly Grandmother would be 1 mana to summon a 3/2. You won't be ecstatic, but it is hardly the worst use of 1 mana you could have.

Yes, but it's still probably not a strong enough use to encourage constructed play. In arena that would be a much better use, but in arena it's a lot harder to have a deck that supports a card like this at all.

[Divayth Fyr]

Spoiler: Breath of Sindragosa

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Common Mage Spell 1
Deal 2 damage to a random enemy minion and Freeze it.

Spoiler: Shadow Essence

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Rare Priest Spell 6
Summon a 5/5 copy of a random minion in your deck.

Spoiler: Rotface

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Legendary Warrior Minion 8
Whenever this minion survives damage, summon a random Legendary minion.
4/6

[ChaosOS]

For everyone talking about Raza+Anduin comboing with Shadow Visions and Radiant elemental: Remember, Raza requires a highlander deck, so you need to draw at least one of your radiant elementals and exactly one shadow visions by the time you play raza for her to work.

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Breath of Sindragosa

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Common Mage Spell 1
Deal 2 damage to a random enemy minion and Freeze it.

Spoiler: Shadow Essence

Show

Rare Priest Spell 6
Summon a 5/5 copy of a random minion in your deck.

Spoiler: Rotface

Show

Legendary Warrior Minion 8
Whenever this minion survives damage, summon a random Legendary minion.
4/6

Breath of Sindragosa: Hm, okay, that's a pretty serious tempo card. Strong effect for the mana cost at the expense of being random, but it's guaranteed to hit an enemy minion, no risk of it going face. There's definite potential there for a Tempo/Aggressive Mage deck. Mana Wyrm loves this card, as would Flamewaker if it were still in Standard. Good card, might see play.

Shadow Essence: Probably too much mana for an effect that is too RNG, unless you can make a deck with no or almost no battlecry or vanilla minions. If most of the minions in your deck have deathrattles or active text, this could be a decent way to cheat out some strong effects (i.e. Ysera, Obsidian Statue), without being too bad even if it whiffs (5/5 Radiant Elemental or Shifting Shade for 6 still isn't a disaster, for example). Buuuut... it's still a 6 mana card that's not exactly reliably getting you a strong play, so it might be a difficult sell.

Rotface: Likely bad. Those stats are not good for the cost, and he can just be killed by a fireball or equivalent and never get his effect, so you need to drop him when you've got self-damaging effects on deck. Which is basically Whirlwind, that new 1-drop minion, or that new weapon. I don't think that's good enough - especially not when random legendaries can definitely be bad pulls these days (Gadgetzan in particular added some pretty small ones, like Hobart Grapplehammer or Wickerflame Burnbristle).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

For everyone talking about Raza+Anduin comboing with Shadow Visions and Radiant elemental: Remember, Raza requires a highlander deck, so you need to draw at least one of your radiant elementals and exactly one shadow visions by the time you play raza for her to work.

I think you're better off in Wild, where you can use Anduin in the Spawn of Shadows combo deck, no Beardo or other hero power resets needed! And you don't have to play it all in one turn, which is great.

Play Dead might be more playable than Feign Death: while Feign Death has a much higher potential value, it's also a 2-mana spell, and it requires at least two deathrattles to outpace Play Dead. In Wild, where it can hit Sylvanas, definitely more playable.

Unfortunately, it's a 1-mana spell, so it's considerably less playable than it should be. Thanks, Team 5.

[Zevox]

New card: Bone Drake.
Neutral, 6 mana, 6/5, Dragon. Deathrattle: add a random Dragon to your hand.

Well, chalk up one actually fairly solid neutral deathrattle for the set, I suppose. Dragon decks will at least consider running this. I think they'd have been happier with something in the 3-4 mana range to replace Twilight Guardian, but they'll take what they can get I suppose. It's also one of the few options worth considering if you're looking to play a Rogue deck that actually runs Roll the Bones, but it's going to take more than this to make that work in Standard, I think.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

New card: Bone Drake.
Neutral, 6 mana, 6/5, Dragon. Deathrattle: add a random Dragon to your hand.

Well, chalk up one actually fairly solid neutral deathrattle for the set, I suppose. Dragon decks will at least consider running this. I think they'd have been happier with something in the 3-4 mana range to replace Twilight Guardian, but they'll take what they can get I suppose. It's also one of the few options worth considering if you're looking to play a Rogue deck that actually runs Roll the Bones, but it's going to take more than this to make that work in Standard, I think.

Personally I'm wondering if you could run a Dragon package + a N'zoth package in priest now. I'm not sure if that leaves enough room for a solid early game, but between the obsidian 9 drop, the bone drake, Tortilian Defender, Eternal Servitude, and Free From Amber they've actually got some pretty sick N'Zoth potential.

Along with a dragon package of Netherspite Historian, Dragonfire Potion, Bone Drake, Twilight Drake, Primordial Drake, and Draknoid Operative, you've actually got a considerable amount of Dragons to hold in your hand for the benefits. That's 8 dragons, which is low but workable.

The question then is simply can I squeeze most-all of these cards into a deck without auto-losing to anything aggressive?