Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn

[tomandtish]

Remind me: when did Momo start working at the library?

She gets the new body beginning with strip 1996. She starts at the library with strip 2007. So @6 years ago.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Read it, but still not what I was thinking of, I'm rather sure.
Probably just my memory tricking me.

Maybe you are a future psychic?

GW

[Felius]

And now I want to punch May and Bubbles in the face for being ****ing jerks, if in different ways. For ****s sake, seriously, "hostility due to your privilege" as if it was something just fine and dandy for May to have done? Like he must "turn his privilege into a force of good" or else he "should" be feeling guilty for being an horrible person?

Honestly, I could perhaps have overlooked that if Bubbles at least started it with a "May is a jerkfaced jerk and what she did was out of line and undeserved." And only then proceeded to go for the "Her reaction is somewhat understandable, if not excusable, given that she's in a much worse situation in life than you, and it might have fell like you were rubbing it on her face." and the "You are in a better position than most people and thus also much more capable of pushing for things to change the better. Have you put thought in what ways you could do it?". But nooooo, she must go straight up with the way that implies "Unless you are sacrificing yourself for the greater good you deserved to be yelled and made to feel miserable.".

[Keltest]

And now I want to punch May and Bubbles in the face for being ****ing jerks, if in different ways. For ****s sake, seriously, "hostility due to your privilege" as if it was something just fine and dandy for May to have done? Like he must "turn his privilege into a force of good" or else he "should" be feeling guilty for being an horrible person?

Honestly, I could perhaps have overlooked that if Bubbles at least started it with a "May is a jerkfaced jerk and what she did was out of line and undeserved." And only then proceeded to go for the "Her reaction is somewhat understandable, if not excusable, given that she's in a much worse situation in life than you, and it might have fell like you were rubbing it on her face." and the "You are in a better position than most people and thus also much more capable of pushing for things to change the better. Have you put thought in what ways you could do it?". But nooooo, she must go straight up with the way that implies "Unless you are sacrificing yourself for the greater good you deserved to be yelled and made to feel miserable.".

Bubbles is casting no judgment of her own, simply explaining what has happened. And she is correct, too. Whether May is acting appropriately is beside the point; Winslow offended her, and that upset him far more than her hostility.

[Felius]

Bubbles is casting no judgment of her own, simply explaining what has happened. And she is correct, too. Whether May is acting appropriately is beside the point; Winslow offended her, and that upset him far more than her hostility.

Except that since she's trying to console him, and not merely analyzing the situation for a report as a third part, the way she put it very much carry a judgment value of "May actions were not out of line. Her offense is valid and you should make amends to her for it." It doesn't really matter if what upset him more was the hostility or that she was offended, because even at the very best interpretation of Bubbles actions, she's then actively enabling an emotionally abusive relationship.

[Max_Killjoy]

"Privilege."

Right.

Whatever.

[georgie_leech]

Except that since she's trying to console him, and not merely analyzing the situation for a report as a third part, the way she put it very much carry a judgment value of "May actions were not out of line. Her offense is valid and you should make amends to her for it." It doesn't really matter if what upset him more was the hostility or that she was offended, because even at the very best interpretation of Bubbles actions, she's then actively enabling an emotionally abusive relationship.

"I feel bad because I just got something given to me that someone worked their butt off for, and I think I offended them."
"You are pretty lucky and it was probably an accident, since this is the first time it happened."
"Yeah."
"I'm going to make the implicit assumption that you feeling bad is a sign you want to make it up to them and don't want to just wallow in self pity; what do you want to do about that?"
"Dunno, this is the first time it happened remember?"
Insert some appropriate Uncle Iroh quote about the healing powers of tea.

Is your issue that Bubbles used that particular label for the feelings and experiences that Winslow literally just described? Or do you see the gist of the conversation as being different from the above?

[Keltest]

Except that since she's trying to console him, and not merely analyzing the situation for a report as a third part, the way she put it very much carry a judgment value of "May actions were not out of line. Her offense is valid and you should make amends to her for it." It doesn't really matter if what upset him more was the hostility or that she was offended, because even at the very best interpretation of Bubbles actions, she's then actively enabling an emotionally abusive relationship.

Winslow is not bothered by what May did. He is bothered by what he did. May's reaction may have been over the top, but the offense he gave was real and legitimate, especially considering that May is more "friend of a friend" than just friend.

[Felius]

"I feel bad because I just got something given to me that someone worked their butt off for, and I think I offended them."
"You are pretty lucky and it was probably an accident, since this is the first time it happened."
"Yeah."
"I'm going to make the implicit assumption that you feeling bad is a sign you want to make it up to them and don't want to just wallow in self pity; what do you want to do about that?"
"Dunno, this is the first time it happened remember?"
Insert some appropriate Uncle Iroh quote about the healing powers of tea.

Is your issue that Bubbles used that particular label for the feelings and experiences that Winslow literally just described? Or do you see the gist of the conversation as being different from the above?

Winslow is not bothered by what May did. He is bothered by what he did. May's reaction may have been over the top, but the offense he gave was real and legitimate, especially considering that May is more "friend of a friend" than just friend.

So, I am to assume that you'd be just fine with other characters implicitly supporting emotionally abusive relationships in other situations as well? Because that's what Bubbles suggesting that he "make it up to them" is.

Or putting it another way:
"I went to tell [jerk I consider a friend for some reason] something good that happened to me and they made me feel like I was a terrible person for being able to get it because they were in a slump."

"Oh, I see. Instead of reassuring you that it was not your fault and that they were jerks, I will instead suggest that you should do something nice for them so to, implying that you were in fact at fault and they justified."

"Sounds a great idea. Then we will be friends again (until she once again blows up at me for some minor perceived misdeed)."

No seriously, her behavior is literally emotional abuse, at least to someone who doesn't act aware that she's a jerk and they aren't required nor should take her ****.

[Keltest]

So, I am to assume that you'd be just fine with other characters implicitly supporting emotionally abusive relationships in other situations as well? Because that's what Bubbles suggesting that he "make it up to them" is.

Or putting it another way:
"I went to tell [jerk I consider a friend for some reason] something good that happened to me and they made me feel like I was a terrible person for being able to get it because they were in a slump."

"Oh, I see. Instead of reassuring you that it was not your fault and that they were jerks, I will instead suggest that you should do something nice for them so to, implying that you were in fact at fault and they justified."

"Sounds a great idea. Then we will be friends again (until she once again blows up at me for some minor perceived misdeed)."

No seriously, her behavior is literally emotional abuse, at least to someone who doesn't act aware that she's a jerk and they aren't required nor should take her ****.

At no point does bubbles suggest that May deserves any sort of compensation or reparation for Winslow's actions. What she DOES suggest is that he give a long hard thought about the positive things he can do -in general- with what he has.

[georgie_leech]

So, I am to assume that you'd be just fine with other characters implicitly supporting emotionally abusive relationships in other situations as well? Because that's what Bubbles suggesting that he "make it up to them" is.

Or putting it another way:
"I went to tell [jerk I consider a friend for some reason] something good that happened to me and they made me feel like I was a terrible person for being able to get it because they were in a slump."

"Oh, I see. Instead of reassuring you that it was not your fault and that they were jerks, I will instead suggest that you should do something nice for them so to, implying that you were in fact at fault and they justified."

"Sounds a great idea. Then we will be friends again (until she once again blows up at me for some minor perceived misdeed)."

No seriously, her behavior is literally emotional abuse, at least to someone who doesn't act aware that she's a jerk and they aren't required nor should take her ****.

Are we reading different comics? "You are not a jerk. She reacted with hostility because of this reason that you literally just described." "What do I do about that?" "Something good (duh?), what do you think that is?"

[Felius]

At no point does bubbles suggest that May deserves any sort of compensation or reparation for Winslow's actions. What she DOES suggest is that he give a long hard thought about the positive things he can do -in general- with what he has.

Except that he's very obviously feeling guilty and crappy, and again obviously feels like he's at fault. Bubbles instead of first reassuring him that no, her actions were not acceptable, and that at most he's very slightly at fault for not being more mindful of her situation, she goes straight up to suggesting that "yep, you're privileged and that was an expected answer, now go think how you can improve things."

Sure, it cheered him up a bit, but in the same way that an abuse victim that's feeling like crap and like they deserve all the things they got might be cheered up by telling them to pretty much "It was expected that they abuse you. You go think about ways that you could make your abusers not want to abuse you anymore."

Even when the actual actions suggested are good, given the mentality abuse victims frequently finds themselves in, it's very important to at least try to assure them that they are not to blame for their abuse.

FusionEdit:

Are we reading different comics? "You are not a jerk. She reacted with hostility because of this reason that you literally just described." "What do I do about that?" "Something good (duh?), what do you think that is?"

"You are not a jerk. She just (reasonably and acceptably) reacted with hostility because this reason that you literally just described (and thus you are the one at fault, even if not intentionally)." "What should I do about that?" "Something to compensate others for your luck, so that you being in a good position isn't offensive anymore."

Remember, he's already feeling like crap and guilty as hell. Her advices are not given in a vacuum, and she did not disabuse him of the notion that he was entirely at fault and that May was right to be pissed and blowing up at him. At most she gave a passing mention that he did not did it intentionally, but that's not nearly enough.

[Gnoman]

More importantly, May is struggling to maintain her body because she has a very cheap government issued one. She has a very cheap government issued body because that is what she was given when she got out of jail. Her problems (unless you consider "not being able to become a fighter jet" a problem instead of the default state) are entirely her own fault, and being a jerk to Winslow for not having the problem is like breaking your leg doing something stupid then treating everyone walking past you like crap.

[Lethologica]

I feel like this sequence was too pat, but that's about it. The criticism in here is pretty hyperbolic.

[georgie_leech]

I feel like this sequence was too pat, but that's about it. The criticism in here is pretty hyperbolic.

A tad. It can be tricky to balance good pacing with the one-strip-at-a-time drip feed release cycle. At least things are moving along though. I can think of a few other comics that are either even more rushed, or spend way too long building up a thing instead of just getting on with it.

[Kato]

... Yeah, not touching this with a ten feet pole...

On another note : does bubbles wear a sweater because it's cold or because of decency?

[Rodin]

... Yeah, not touching this with a ten feet pole...

On another note : does bubbles wear a sweater because it's cold or because of decency?

Possibly just a matter of comfort. Bubbles is used to wearing her armor everywhere. Looking back through the comics, it seems she always wears sweaters in public. So, she's comfortable in her spandex (or whatever the skin-tight onesie is made of) when she's among friends, but puts on the sweater for going out in.

Deceny is also a good shout, since the spandex doesn't leave much to the imagination.

[John Cribati]

More importantly, May is struggling to maintain her body because she has a very cheap government issued one. She has a very cheap government issued body because that is what she was given when she got out of jail. Her problems (unless you consider "not being able to become a fighter jet" a problem instead of the default state) are entirely her own fault, and being a jerk to Winslow for not having the problem is like breaking your leg doing something stupid then treating everyone walking past you like crap.

Okay this is where I'm going to bite.

May did do wrong to get into robo-jail in the first place, I'm not disputing that, but you seem to be taking for granted that the government-issued bodies for released AI convicts have to be so cheap in the first place. If the system tells her that she now has to reintegrate i to society, and yet doesn't provide her adequate means to do so, how is it her fault?

[Yuki Akuma]

Man, why is it that I see the words "emotional manipulation" in webcomic comment threads way more often than I see them literally anywhere else ever?

[Max_Killjoy]

Man, why is it that I see the words "emotional manipulation" in webcomic comment threads way more often than I see them literally anywhere else ever?

1) Because the format grinds slowly forward if you're reading it as it's posted, giving the readers time to micro-analyze incomplete conversations and arcs, and then hold on to their interpretations even when the next update or the rest of their arc invalidates it.

2) Because they're sometimes right even when their initial reasoning was spurious or based on incomplete facts at hand, and the typical human brain latches on to being right more readily than it recalls having been wrong.

3) Because, for some webcomics, that's the atmosphere fostered by the author and by the dedicated audience that gathers around it -- see David Willis and his sycophantic echo chamber.

[Traab]

I just love how everything is privilege. If you are even slightly better off than someone else, thats privilege. May acted like winslow went out to show off his new monday body because the last one lost its new chassis smell. He has been a barely capable of slight mobility sentient ipod for years now and finally has gotten himself a body to get around with like may, and this is somehow objectionable? "May is a jerk" is about where it can be left at. If bubbles really wanted to explain, but not justify, she could have added, "She was jealous because of x, but thats not your fault, so you have no reason to feel guilty."

I just have a bad feeling this is going to turn into an arc where winslow tries to raise money to get may a new body. Like he owes her something.

[John Cribati]

I honestly think you're overreacting to the weird "privilege."

Any given thing that you are able to do in your day to day life that someone else cannot is a priviliege you have over that person. It isn't even always a social or political thing, either; that's just the context in which we see the word 90% of the time. Like, if there was suddenly a Fast Zombie Apocalypse, physically fit people would have privilege over people who weren't.

Now, did Winslow know that May was having trouble servicing her body? I'm not sure, but either he didn't know, or he was so exuberant about his new body that he forgot. In either case, May does have a right to be miffed that somebody could just decide to get something changed one day and get it, while she's been struggling to make that same change and constantly meeting dead ends. So yes, this was a case of Winslow flaunting a privilege May doesn't have.

Did it have to be worded that way? Probably not. But then again, Bubbles is one of those AIs that are more likely to be the target of AI-phobia or whatever, so I wouldn't be surprised if she was just more versed in such issues within the community.

[Max_Killjoy]

"Privilege" as used in current discourse is a ridiculous concept based on a combination of:

* An inversion of rights where not having your rights violated is the exception and something that those who don't have their rights violated "should" feel they have to make up for.

* A way for some who are envious to project the blame for their feeling on the target of their envy.

I'm not on the hate-May-chain, but her reaction amounts to "I refuse to be happy for you because why don't I have the nice thing you have?"

It's like that one person many of us know who is bitter about other people's relationships because they don't have their own relationship.

[Thialfi]

I honestly think you're overreacting to the weird "privilege."

I'm going to risk mentioning something close to real life circumstances here and suggest that people today react to that word in different ways mainly based on their circumstances.

Some people hear "you have something that you do not deserve" when they hear the word privilege. They hear it as a challenge. Even though I am firmly in the group that this phrase is often associated with, I try to hear that word as "you are fortunate enough to have something that everyone deserves, but not everyone has."

That being said, I think this strip did layer it on a bit thick. Were I Bubbles, my advice would have probably went along the lines of "Winslow, you were excited and wanted to share your joy with everyone you know. You didn't do anything wrong and May acted like a jerk, but put yourself in her shoes for a second. May has had it pretty rough and your happiness may have come across like you were rubbing your good fortune in her face. Try not to judge her too harshly for acting the way she did. If you still feel guilty about your good fortune, just try to think of some ways that you can spread that around so that others can be as happy as you are."

[John Cribati]

I'm not on the hate-May-chain, but her reaction amounts to "I refuse to be happy for you because why don't I have the nice thing you have?"

It's like that one person many of us know who is bitter about other people's relationships because they don't have their own relationship.

I'd rather not argue your other points but it's very telling that you compare this to jealousy over a relationship when this is something that fundamentally affects May's way of life. It would be like if one of my friends recently became a quadraplegic in a car accident and I recently learned to do gymnastics, went to his hospital room, and started showing off doing flips and cartwheels and gushing about how I finally got my limbs to do what I want.

Do you expect him to be happy for me while I'm reminding him that his limbs don't work and may never work again?

[Max_Killjoy]

I'd rather not argue your other points but it's very telling that you compare this to jealousy over a relationship when this is something that fundamentally affects May's way of life. It would be like if one of my friends recently became a quadraplegic in a car accident and I recently learned to do gymnastics, went to his hospital room, and started showing off doing flips and cartwheels and gushing about how I finally got my limbs to do what I want.

Do you expect him to be happy for me while I'm reminding him that his limbs don't work and may never work again?

If Winslow had knowingly rushed in while May was having her chassis repaired yet again, and raved about how awesome it was, that would be a valid comparison.

[John Cribati]

If Winslow had knowingly rushed in while May was having her chassis repaired yet again, and raved about how awesome it was, that would be a valid comparison.

It's the main problem May is constantly dealing with and would always be at or near the forefront of her mind, so im gonna disagree with that.

[Keltest]

I do have to wonder though. Being an AnthroPC is, like, a job, right? Its not just AIs looking for roommates, they get paired up with the human to provide emotional support and companionship. So why is it that the humans are paying out of pocket for their companions new chassis? Momo and Winslow at least had the good taste to offer to pay Marigold and Hanners back, but what would they do if their financial situations were different? Winslow was an I-pod, whats he going to even be able to do to make money? Momo was at least fully mobile.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm going to risk mentioning something close to real life circumstances here and suggest that people today react to that word in different ways mainly based on their circumstances.

Some people hear "you have something that you do not deserve" when they hear the word privilege. They hear it as a challenge. Even though I am firmly in the group that this phrase is often associated with, I try to hear that word as "you are fortunate enough to have something that everyone deserves, but not everyone has."

DING!

To tell someone "you have a privilege" is to tell them "you have/get something special that other don't and that you don't deserve".

Actual "privilege" is the mayor getting out of speeding tickets because he's the mayor, or a celebrity going to "rehab" instead federal prison when they're caught with a kilo of cocaine and three "escorts" in a trashed hotel room.

When you say "you have privilege" to someone who works 50+ hours a week to support their family at a decent standard of living, who has put in a lifetime of hard work just to keep up and maybe get ahead a little, you're insulting them.

[Merellis]

I'm more stuck on if Winslow even got paid to be a companion, or was even able to get a job in the first place.

Like, what is the situation here? Are all AI's able to get jobs, or just the ones with movable bodies?

As for May, she was already punished by going to Robot Jail, what the government decides to do after she's able to leave and is granted a new body isn't her fault at that point anymore. They gave her a craptastic body to deal with, and she has had a lot of issues hunting down a job just because of the fact she went to jail in the first place. (Funny enough, having to mention you went to jail sort of just ruins your chances of getting another job. People do gain employment after being convicted, but a lot of places just tend to avoid that entirely)

Which is just a horrible situation in and of itself. It's not even just having some jealousy, it's literally that she's running around trying to keep her body together while the government isn't able to support her issues at all. Her arm is literally falling off, she had to go to an underground fighting ring to get her face fixed. Yeah, I can see why she'd be a bit ornery in dealing with Winslow.