Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire

[Winterwind]

Okay, so... what the hell did just happen?

Was it all an illusion, to make Scarlatti slay his companions? Were they genuinely possessed and he killed them while defending himself?

All I gather is that he would have perished if Karnak had not forced Siggy back to Hell just in time to save Scarlatti's life.

Also, let's see...

Karnak:
- spent his time haunting some completely random kid in the mortal world.
- has never attacked anyone or anything else in the mortal world.
- solves most stuff by stabbing/slashing/hitting it until it stops moving.
- has less intelligence and/or willpower than Dominic.

Siegfried:
- is well capable of fighting Dominic and Milov at once on the mental plane.
- possesses mortals left and right.
- actually has some kind of reason to go after the people he haunts.
- uses psychological warfare as well.

Well, d'uh, Karnak! Don't you get it? You suck! Siggy has long surpassed you!
And, of all people, you should not complain he is wasting his time - at least he has a reason, unlike, say... you.

[rubakhin]

Am I the only one who read Sigfried talking in a mwah-mwah-mwah Charlie Brown voice?

[averagejoe]

This is the randomest arc ever. It's just kinda... random. I don't get it.

Am I the only one who read Sigfried talking in a mwah-mwah-mwah Charlie Brown voice?

I didn't, but that is hilarious.

[Gez]

Oooooohh... Karnak's attack left an eye-hole in Demonsiggy's mask! Now Siggy will be able to see with his own eyes (well, eye, 'cause there's only one hole) rather than through weird demonsense, and Karnak will lose his general who will rebel and find redemption!

No, no, the symbolism is really subtle and all.

Still, gotta agree with Karnak on one thing: these hauntings are really petty. Especially this most recent.

[Winterwind]

Still, gotta agree with Karnak on one thing: these hauntings are really petty. Especially this most recent.

But sadly, they are still far more evil than anything Karnak has ever done.

I suspect he actually tries to keep Siggy from continuing that haunting thing because he realises that Siggy is just plain better at being evil than he is. And that's bad for his self-esteem.
Poor Karnak...

[Twin2]

But sadly, they are still far more evil than anything Karnak has ever done.

I suspect he actually tries to keep Siggy from continuing that haunting thing because he realises that Siggy is just plain better at being evil than he is. And that's bad for his self-esteem.
Poor Karnak...

And to think after that whole powering up in hell thing we could have perhaps had karnak use these hauntings as a distraction while he's doing something spetacular, but instead for all we know he's been pissing around with a liutenant he possibly can't control now (and it's not like we haven't seen that before either).

[Winterwind]

And to think after that whole powering up in hell thing we could have perhaps had karnak use these hauntings as a distraction while he's doing something spetacular, but instead for all we know he's been pissing around with a liutenant he possibly can't control now (and it's not like we haven't seen that before either).

What are you talking about?! Before, it was a rebelious Infernomancer who hated the Deegans and liked to have long hair and wear black! Now, it is a rebelious Infernal Demon who hates the Deegans and likes to have long hair and wear black! Those are, like, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

[Twin2]

What are you talking about?! Before, it was a rebelious Infernomancer who hated the Deegans and liked to have long hair and wear black! Now, it is a rebelious Infernal Demon who hates the Deegans and likes to have long hair and wear black! Those are, like, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

Irony aside I figure that this would have been a good way to potentially start a closing arc. If I were in mookie's position I'd have had this whole siggy thing go at first to domminic's friends, then to random important people, and while any relevant party is attempting to figure what's going on have karnak open a hole to hell in barthas, put it to the torch, have a giant battle between good and evil throughout the world culminating with an eventual victory for good, and end it there.

[AmberVael]

People keep dissing on Karnak, but I'm seeing a pattern here that makes me think that he might actually be (if Mookie wasn't the one writing the comic) better than his minions.
The pattern is that his minions are always doing some terrible and evil work. It's not so much that Karnak is THE GRAND BADASS that you might expect from Mookie, but instead that he somehow instinctively knows where to find good minions. Minions that will go crazy and kill and generally be really really evil- perfect for a demon lord. Furthermore, they serve him because of the title he wields, or because he can offer them things or twist them into doing what he wants even as the surpass him.
Sure, he's not good at doing things himself... but why bother doing something yourself and getting killed fighting the Deegan clan when you could raise an awesome minion, watch him do a ton of work, then watch HIM get killed and find another?
In that way, he might actually be the smartest villain. He's realized that fighting the Deegans doesn't work, so he doesn't do it- he just tosses people at them.

All of this, unfortunately, assumes a lot of Mookie. I'm sure he'll find some way to mess up my explanation.

[Twin2]

But in the end what does that get him? Spending time and energy just to get a few chuckles by tossing away minions when you could be raising hell (literally and figuratively in his case) some otherway. Surely that'd be more entertaining then throwing minion after minion at them (especially since his seem to just be following grudges against people).

[AmberVael]

In the end, what would he gain from doing anything? He's fighting the Deegans. Trying to kill them basically means he is shooting to take over the world, because with them in the way it'll never succeed.
He pretty much does have to kill them first, otherwise Dominic will get Miraculous Seer Vision of whatever he plans and then they'll stop him.

[Oracle_Hunter]

The pattern is that his minions are always doing some terrible and evil work. It's not so much that Karnak is THE GRAND BADASS that you might expect from Mookie, but instead that he somehow instinctively knows where to find good minions. Minions that will go crazy and kill and generally be really really evil- perfect for a demon lord. Furthermore, they serve him because of the title he wields, or because he can offer them things or twist them into doing what he wants even as the surpass him.

I agree, that would be an excellent Karnak. A good counterpoint to Dom's "intelligence" and "foresight" is a man who is both brutally cunning and cunningly brutal.

Unfortunately, Mookie's Karnak doesn't actually "control" his minions. He lost control of his only Infernomancer (TIM) at the start of the Ecstasy & Evil Arc, after TIM stole some super-artifact. Meanwhile, Karnak's second lieutenant seems to be able to run rampant while Karnak is doing... um, something important, I'm sure. Karnak's inability to keep his infernally-bound lieutenants from betraying him all over the place just makes him look dumb.

Petulant and dumb, when you see how he is portrayed in Ecstasy and Evil. And yet he was the most Badass of all the Demons of Hell.

Also: Way to reuse art, Mookie. Did you photoshop the throat-slash, or are you some kind of artbot? Jeez!

EDIT: In case you forgot why Karnak smacked Szark, here you go. Why he chose Dom instead of Miranda, or Donovan, is unclear. And don't say it's because they were already protected because clearly one ward fits all.

Mookie, you blockhead!

[AmberVael]

Yes, he did lose control of the infernomancer, but somehow after the infernomancer started talking to him he found himself turning back around and doing what Karnak wanted.
...after killing all the other minions.

But I'll grant that he's far from what he could be. For some reason.
*cough* Mookie *cough*

[Winterwind]

EDIT: In case you forgot why Karnak smacked Szark, here you go.

This doesn't explain why he did it though, only that he did it. And sure, it probably has something to do with his disappointed love to Miranda (even though I'm pretty sure Mookie came up with that part only much, much later). But then, isn't going after a friend of her son a bit... indirect?

Vael, I agree that using minions instead of going into battle himself would be a wise move on Karnak's part, but this does not seem to be what is happening here. Karnak did not orchestrate Siegfried's attacks on Dominic and Milov, and in fact does not even approve of them. He clearly seems to be losing control over his leutenant.

What I don't even understand is why he minds. Wouldn't a demon lord enjoy it when his minions bring pain and suffering - especially if, as it seems, he can still call them back at any time if the need arises?

[Green Bean]

TvTropes really does have everything! Apparently, Siggy is in the middle of a villainous Faustian Rebellion.

[sihnfahl]

Yes, he did lose control of the infernomancer, but somehow after the infernomancer started talking to him he found himself turning back around and doing what Karnak wanted.
...after killing all the other minions.

And only because the target was one that TIM thought would be 'fun' to <horribly graphic description blatantly censored>.

If TIM didn't think it'd be fun to <horribly graphic description blatantly censored> Miranda, Karnak would probably have an easier time breathing; more holes in his chest.

[Oracle_Hunter]

This doesn't explain why he did it though, only that he did it. And sure, it probably has something to do with his disappointed love to Miranda (even though I'm pretty sure Mookie came up with that part only much, much later). But then, isn't going after a friend of her son a bit... indirect?

Well, Mookie didn't wait that much longer to reveal this, though there is still no reason why Karnak would attack Dom. Unless Karnak somehow foretold how much trouble Dom would be to him... except that Dom made him King of Hell.

I think it's because Karnak really is just a whiny little jerk, who likes picking on easy targets. His Badass attitude during the War in Hell was merely temporary.

EDIT: Hey, for fun I wrote up an Altverse description of Karnak's history!

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Karnak was a brutal warrior, besting even the best of the orcs. Right before delivering the final blow to Donovan, he saw that the Demon of Battle was going to threaten his secret love, Miranda, so he threw himself into Hell, where his fury slew the Demon and took his mantle for his own.

After consolidating his power, Karnak came back to Earth to finish off Donovan and claim Miranda as his bride. Miranda refused, and banished him from Earth for 15 years. This snub filled Karnak with rage, and he devoted the rest of his time to causing Miranda pain. However, Miranda was too strong and, after an attempt to kill her favorite son, Dominic, went poorly, he gave up trying to work against her directly.

Karnak chose Tim, a coward whose fear of pain & death caused him to forge an infernal pact, as his Infernomancer on Earth. As his Price, Karnak took Tim's eyes, wracking him with eternal bleeding eye-sockets which caused him eternal pain. This torture slowly drove Tim mad, causing him to revel in the pain of others, and soon his insanity made him too powerful for Karnak to control.

Surprised by Tim's new power, Karnak lost control of a potent infernal artifact, which gave Tim to break free of Karnak's dominion, becoming a sort of free-ranging engine of Evil. Karnak quickly focused Tim's attention on Miranda, in the hopes that her power would take care of Tim for him, and maybe cause her some pain, so that she could feel as he had for all these years. Unfortunately, Tim failed and was banished to an endless void, forcing Karnak to seek another pawn.

Karnak came upon Siegfried, a savage and violent knight whose personal charisma won him high office at a young age. Karnak watched as Siegfried used his bloodlust and the corrupt Knights of Callan to win praise and friends, including a naive priestess named Jayden, and her lover, Lord Milov the Spellwolf. His friends, despite being generally good souls, became twisted by Siegfried's strength of personality, with Milov slowly becoming more brutal while Jayden slowly turned away from Good and began to worship the clean strength of Order that Siegfried embodied.

Siegfried's soul was long ago damned by his bloody deeds, so Karnak did nothing but watch as Siegfried tormented the Deegans with impuny, both delighting in the carnage, and envying Siegfried's ability to do that which he never could. Ultimately, Siegfried seduced Jayden away from Milov, and cuckolded him while Milov defended Siegfried's bloody ways to the Deegans.

During the War in Hell, Siegfried was slain by misfortune after running to defend his father from a hellish plot which sought to usurp the tainted hierarchy that he and Siegfried had constructed over the years. Karnak quickly claimed Siegfried's soul and taunted Dominic - who had been swayed by Siegfried's powerful personality and held the Blood Knight to be his friend.

Seeing an opportunity to torment the Deegans, Karnak allowed his new pawn a free reign, but soon was overcome with jealousy at Siegfried's success. Karnak drew in Siegfried and lashed out at him, planting the seeds of rebellion in his new lieutenant. Karnak has always underestimated others, but Siegfried's thirst for power may actually equal Karnak's own, and if he loses control this time, Hell may see a new king.

So, what do you think?

[AmberVael]

Vael, I agree that using minions instead of going into battle himself would be a wise move on Karnak's part, but this does not seem to be what is happening here. Karnak did not orchestrate Siegfried's attacks on Dominic and Milov, and in fact does not even approve of them. He clearly seems to be losing control over his lieutenant.

Actually, that's up to interpretation. He could have been talking about Siegfried's most recent haunting of the random NPCs and Scarletti, and not Milov and Dominic.

sihnfahl- but that's the point. Karnak knew what he wanted, so he was like "hey, go do this for me. I want it, you want it, go kill them." He was able to maintain control by manipulating his personality and motives.

Anyways, to put a little emphasis on my original point- I would interpret Karnak differently (IE, the way I've been talking) IF I didn't know Mookie was the one writing.
As it is, I'm just sad that he has this possibility of character development that he will probably toss into the crapper, color with violet swirls and go "look what I made!"
...seems to be Dominic Deegan in a nutshell, really.

[Oracle_Hunter]

As it is, I'm just sad that he has this possibility of character development that he will probably toss into the crapper, color with violet swirls and go "look what I made!"
...seems to be Dominic Deegan in a nutshell, really.

QFT

Honestly, I may steal Mookie's "potential characters" for my D&D game. Original Flavor Siegfried may make a very good "captain of the guards" in the capital of the NE kingdom my PCs are wandering about.

[Gez]

EDIT: Hey, for fun I wrote up an Altverse description of Karnak's history!

Altverse? The only way in which it doesn't perfectly fit the Mookiverse is that it makes sense.

[Psychonaut]

Am I the only one who read Sigfried talking in a mwah-mwah-mwah Charlie Brown voice?

I didn't, although I enjoy it much more now that I do. My interpretation was that Karnak was just anthropomorphizing his new pet a little too much.

No matter what I do, though, I can't help but imagine Siegfried saying this in the last panel:

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[Winterwind]

Anyways, to put a little emphasis on my original point- I would interpret Karnak differently (IE, the way I've been talking) IF I didn't know Mookie was the one writing.
As it is, I'm just sad that he has this possibility of character development that he will probably toss into the crapper, color with violet swirls and go "look what I made!"
...seems to be Dominic Deegan in a nutshell, really.

Agreed. I tend to view many of the characters and things happening in the comic in a much more negative light than I would if it were a different comic, simply because I know there is no wise design or forthcoming surprising twist that makes things work the way they do; contrarywise, even.

Altverse? The only way in which it doesn't perfectly fit the Mookiverse is that it makes sense.

Exactly what I thought, too.

No matter what I do, though, I can't help but imagine Siegfried saying this in the last panel:

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Wow, it fits so well that I have trouble to imagine now he did not say this in the original.

[AmberVael]

No matter what I do, though, I can't help but imagine Siegfried saying this in the last panel:

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*giggles helplessly at the thought of a valley girl Siegfried.*
That is hilarious.

[Mewtarthio]

Yay, random slaughter!

Okay, betting time! How will this end up?

A) It's just a bit of "foreshadowing." We'll get the conclusion sometime next year.
B) As above, except without any sort of conclusion.
C) As above, except it will drag on interminably while reaching said non-conclusion.
D) Mookie suddenly suffers a fatal attack of conscience when the full knowledge of what he has created smacks him like a cold iron crowbar to the skull of Tinkerbell. The "Mookie" we know dies (as people tend to do in fatal events) and is replaced by "Good Mookie." This arc reaches a dramatic, satisfying conclusion that ties together all the loose ends and actually lets us care about characters again. Then, Good Mookie announces the end of the strip.

[Winterwind]

I choose
E) The story arc with the Infernomancer will start right now, but will be actually just a continuation of the arc we are currently in, fulfilling its transition into The Arc That Would Not Die. Any virtue that might be inherent to the story will be crushed under the weight of failed attempts to consolidate the forthcoming events and all that happened so far in this far too long arc into one big structure holding together, resulting only in a cancerous, Frankensteinian monstrosity of an arc, collapsing under its own weight.

This said, I admit I was amused by The Infernomancer having become... The Infernomancer. Kudos on that, Mookie, nice nod to the community.

[Freelance Henchman]

Is anyone actually enjoying reading that? In a non-ironic sense? That's a pretty awful comic, how did it end up with a umpty-page thread?

[Humbug]

Is anyone actually enjoying reading that? In a non-ironic sense? That's a pretty awful comic, how did it end up with a umpty-page thread?

You haven't seen the LJ fan community, have you?

[Green Bean]

You haven't seen the LJ fan community, have you?

I don't think FH's seen this thread, either.

[Winterwind]

Is anyone actually enjoying reading that? In a non-ironic sense? That's a pretty awful comic, how did it end up with a umpty-page thread?

Of these 130 pages, there are about 128 mocking the comic. We just enjoy MST3King the hell out of it, that's all, and think it is entertaining to make fun of Mookie's failings.
(The other two pages are spent on answering questions such as yours)

[Freelance Henchman]

I don't think FH's seen this thread, either.

Well, my sarcasm meter is kind of on the fritz lately. I need everything explained to me in not-too-long words, and with diagrams if possible.