Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire

[Nibleswick]

You know, looking at it, For a moment I almost though "wow, Mookie actually worked hard to make an interesting looking place".

Then I realized that those are all pine trees, so the leaves that a fluttering in the air can't be from them. Unless these are some sort of hybrid Pine/oak or something.

Then I realized those weren't ropes holding the houses to the trees, but stairs going up and awkward angles without railing to the floor of the next house, coming up in the middle of the room (At least, that's what I think I see).

So, my praise quickly evaporated. S'too bad, with alittle more effort Mookie could have actually done some good here.

You forgot to mention that some of them seem to be brick houses... in trees... I think this has broken my mind again, sniff.

[TigerHunter]

Just by the way, Mookie himself stated that he's a Girl Genius fan in his blog, right?
...hm.

I'm afraid that I fail to see the correlation...

[MeklorIlavator]

Hey! There's an online Mary/Marty sue quiz. I gave it a whirl with Dominic, and got an 81(highest category is 50+, so he's deep in may sue territory). What do you get?

[Phase]

Whoa! I got a 105! Yikes!

Kill it! Kill it with fire!

[Hell Puppi]

Heh one of my characters got a 41....possibly because she does find unique magical items, and she's part of a prophecy, and she has an unusual animal companion.
Of course she's a vampire with a vampire horse, the magic items get taken away, and the prophecy she's part of means she's going to kill every living thing on the planet and there's not a damn thing she can do about it.

....and the main character of my other story got a 0. Too bad that test doesn't go into the negatives, I think Nor would be a -5. She's a wuss.



A 105? How'd you manage that?

[Phase]

This is Dominic Deegan we're talking about. He's basically Mookie with glasses and magic. This the ultimate Marty Sue here. 105.

[Khosan]

Heh one of my characters got a 41....possibly because she does find unique magical items, and she's part of a prophecy, and she has an unusual animal companion.
Of course she's a vampire with a vampire horse, the magic items get taken away, and the prophecy she's part of means she's going to kill every living thing on the planet and there's not a damn thing she can do about it.

....and the main character of my other story got a 0. Too bad that test doesn't go into the negatives, I think Nor would be a -5. She's a wuss.



A 105? How'd you manage that?

The Mary Sue test actually ranks a lot of people as such. I imagine if you ran Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen through it, he'd be scoring pretty highly.

[chionophile]

Why did Mookie capitalize the last half of his fancy word for "tree"? ShaLIF? wtf?

[Hell Puppi]

The Mary Sue test actually ranks a lot of people as such. I imagine if you ran Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen through it, he'd be scoring pretty highly.

Now I don't feel so bad...there's nothing worse than trying to create a story, hope it works, hope someone enjoys it....and then realizing your main character just may be a mary sue. Ugh.
I would hate to pull a Mookie ("but he's missing a leg guys...doesn't that count as a flaw?! Plus his finance totally has tusks!")

[Turcano]

So trees get to decide nobility now? If this is any indication of what Mookie's elves are like, they're the biggest hippie retards in a field with a lot of strong contenders for that title.

Tangentially, one of my favorite portrayals of elves is by Steven Brust, whose elves don't ever live in trees and run around punching people in the 'nads, which incidentally make them a lot like the elves in The Silmarillion, only more so.

The Mary Sue test actually ranks a lot of people as such. I imagine if you ran Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen through it, he'd be scoring pretty highly.

Well, yeah. The problem with those kinds of tests is that they, by and large, test the symptoms and not the disease, although this particular test scores extra points for having the "uncommon for this setting" clause. (Incidentally, my most Mary-Sueish character scores a 25 on that test, so maybe I'm doing something right.)

[Trazoi]

Now I don't feel so bad...there's nothing worse than trying to create a story, hope it works, hope someone enjoys it....and then realizing your main character just may be a mary sue. Ugh.
I would hate to pull a Mookie ("but he's missing a leg guys...doesn't that count as a flaw?! Plus his finance totally has tusks!")

My reading of Mary Sues is that the give-away sign is that they're:

• The most important thing in the world. If anything important needs to be done, it's done by the Mary Sue.
• Simply more awesome than everyone else, without needing to put in the sacrifices needed to become that awesome
• Loved by all who are worthy. Not loving the Mary Sue is a sign of unworthiness, often punishable by death
• Always right about everything

Typically the easiest way to ensure your character isn't a Mary Sue is to give them some character flaws, something where they'll be wrong rather than right. Phobias, stubbornness, pride, etc. Lots of nice interesting negative personality traits to choose from.

I've tried scoring up a protagonist character I'm developing with that test, and he also scored pretty highly because he's in a fantasy world with special powers, probably royalty and part of a prophecy. This is despite he's generally less skilled, uglier, generally less well liked than practically everyone else and wrong more often than he's right.

[Jayngfet]

Well helping an ally to a famous and powerful being would get you some esteem.

[Doompuppy]

Why did Mookie capitalize the last half of his fancy word for "tree"? ShaLIF? wtf?

I thought that too... but then I came to realize - it's just the opposite.

The "ha" in ShaLIF are the only lower-case letters in the entire comic. It's not that "LIF" is capitalized, it's that "ha" completely breaks his comic font, for no apparant reason...

[Phase]

Tangentially, one of my favorite portrayals of elves is by Steven Brust, whose elves don't ever live in trees and run around punching people in the 'nads.

I'd invest in that!

[Gez]

I would hate to pull a Mookie ("but he's missing a leg guys...doesn't that count as a flaw?! Plus his finance totally has tusks!")

Heh. I bet I'd have more money if my finance had tusks.

[Johnny Blade]

Okay, I'll regret this, but: If you manage to ignore how clichéd these Elves are for a second, Dryads as elevators are a surprisingly funny idea.


Of course, the trees decide who is worthy to live in them. Because, as we all know, the worth of each being is predetermined and, apparently, measurable.

That's why Nerderon and Geekania live in the ancient trees, while their miserable servant Jock has to eke out a living in the dirt.

I'm afraid that I fail to see the correlation...

"After all, when in Faria, do as the Elves do."
"Which is what, exactly?"
"I have no idea."

"And hyu know vot dey say about actresses!"
"Vell, um, no."
"Yah, me neither."

Basically the same joke. Only that it's funnier when the Jaegers do it and the Foglios made it one joke among several in that update, while it was the only one Mookie managed to cram in his strip (apart from economic lingo).

(It's not like the Foglios invented it, of course.)

I thought that too... but then I came to realize - it's just the opposite.

The "ha" in ShaLIF are the only lower-case letters in the entire comic. It's not that "LIF" is capitalized, it's that "ha" completely breaks his comic font, for no apparant reason...

Of course, that means the Elves are a very soft-spoken and gentle race.
Or that everybody else is always shouting.

[rubakhin]

Jeez, I got -4 when I ran my last guy through. Of course I tend to write aging Soviet sad sacks with very few redeeming characteristics. I kinda wonder how I'd do writing some fantasy novel.

Ah, I can hardly wait to see the elves. I wonder what real-world culture Mookie is going to clumsily caricature this time?

[Tom_Violence]

"Which is what, exactly?"
"I have no idea."

"And hyu know vot dey say about actresses!"
"Vell, um, no."
"Yah, me neither."

Basically the same joke. Only that it's funnier when the Jaegers do it and the Foglios made it one joke among several in that update, while it was the only one Mookie managed to cram in his strip (apart from economic lingo).

(It's not like the Foglios invented it, of course.)

I dunno, that one kinda is so old that its a bit hard to have a go at Mookie for 'stealing' it. But by all means have a go at him for falling back on such an ancient crutch.

[Morty]

I put my current D&D character -which is sort of an "archetype" I like to play, i.e I tend to play cowardly half-elf wizard very often- through this test and I got 14. Not bad. Of course, it doesn't surprise me that Dominic had over 100 points there. I mean, they should put him in Mary Sue articles in Wikipedia and TvTropes to say: "if the character looks like this guy, there's something wrong with him/her".
It should be noted however, that adding "flaws" to the character isn't always the solution to the problem of Mary-Sueness. Piling on character flaws can end up being sort of a reverse Mary Sue, a self-loathing one.
And while we're at Girl Genius, the contrast of female characters in both comics is indeed amusing.

[colonelslime]

So, the Dryads decide who gets to live in a cool tree-house and who gets to live as a plebe on the ground? Fun times. This elvish society sounds like the best thing ever.

As Johnny Blade said, apparently all the elves are born with a pre-determined "noble" factor which allows them to live in the trees. What I wonder is what happens when a noble child doesn't live up to the parents. Do the dryads come in a say "Sorry, kids not noble enough, he goes" and punt him off the tree?

Also, signed up for a tour? Of what, the country? That's like saying you signed up for a day tour of France. How small can this place be that cruise ships offers a tour? Unless it's just a tour of the immediate area, in which case:

"Wow look at all the trees!"
"Can we go up to the houses?"
"NO, for you are inferior, only Dominic+Mate may climb the tree"

Edit: As for the Mary-Sue test, I found some of the questions were less about mary-sueishness and more about the uniqueness of the character. The protagonist will usually have some traits that sets him or her apart from the rest, especially in a fantasy setting. It would be pretty hard to get 0 on the test writing a heroic character.

[sihnfahl]

Also, signed up for a tour? Of what, the country? That's like saying you signed up for a day tour of France. How small can this place be that cruise ships offers a tour? Unless it's just a tour of the immediate area, in which case:

Well, it COULD be the Great City of the Elves (kind of like calling the Vatican the Great City of Catholicism). Yes, there are elves who live in other cities, but the Really Important Things are in Faria.

And since going up the Trees is restricted, you have far less to look at. Again, with the Vatican analogy, you can see the 'public' things, but where the See is, you ain't going. And the things like the Restricted Archives... right out.

[Lord Seth]

My problem with the Mary Sue Litmus test that was linked to is that there aren't many cases where it LOWERS scores. For example, I tested out a VILLAIN in my story, who got a high score. Yes, they had an angsty past (which they never angst about, noticably), are extremely strong, but there's also the fact that they're, you know, the villain. The only one that really covers them being villainous is "Has your character ever been honestly selfish, petty, lazy, shallow, or pointlessly cruel?" which lowers it by a grand total of 1 point. Even a character being sociopathic and killing MILLIONS just for their own amusement isn't going to lower their score by much.

Maybe it wasn't really meant for villains, but an earlier question asks "If your character is a villain..." implying that it does work. That's my problem with the test: It judges qualities that can make someone a Mary Sue, but there aren't that many ways it lets you lower the Mary Sue-o-meter due to flaws with the character.

The other thing that I'm confused about is some things that I would think would DECREASE it instead INCREASES it. For example:
"Was your character responsible for the death of his/her parents/guardians?" Answering yes increases your score by 2. This makes little sense to me, I would think doing something like that would show the character to be malicious and would LOWER the score. As if the increase isn't weird enough, why increase it by TWO?

Personally, I prefer this one: (it's only for original fiction though)
http://www.onlyfiction.net/marysue.html
It has more ways to lower the score if the character has major flaws, and thus gives a better picture in my opinion.

Strangely, on "The Universal" test (first one posted) when I tried putting Deegan through it, he got a comparatively low score. Then again, I had no idea what the author himself thought of the character, so I left a lot of things blank that might have been true (i.e. the author wanting to be like the character)

[Myrdhale]

Yeah, I ran my character through the Universal one, and I got a 40, which seems really unfair, since all that only came from the fact that he was part of the main plot to save the world =P

If you ran Luke Skywalker through here, I bet he would score high 90's. The problem is that anything that makes a character plot important in more than the "rag tag heroes out to save the world" kinda way makes them a Mary Sue. If handled correctly though you can make your characters more relevant and not have the world revolve around them.

I think the test is more for someone Fearing they have created a Mary Sue, and not those that have made sure not to while writing up their character.

[Oracle_Hunter]

The "ha" in ShaLIF are the only lower-case letters in the entire comic. It's not that "LIF" is capitalized, it's that "ha" completely breaks his comic font, for no apparant reason...

Oooo, good catch.

Anyhow, tree-gods. I'm sure Mookie means for this to be a meritocracy ("nobility is not granted by wealth or power") but it really seems more like the divine right of kings. After all, what if the tree-gods just like people with tusks and missing legs? It's all about the metric you're using

Also: man, Mookie-D hasn't been this Marty Stu-y for awhile. Wandering into a random culture thousands of miles away and being treated as a returning hero? +5 to Marty Stu.

At least the WA thought he was kind of annoying, being all Callanian and all... though that was more Nimmel's time to rack up the Marty Stu points, I suppose.

[ElfLad]

The other thing that I'm confused about is some things that I would think would DECREASE it instead INCREASES it. For example:
"Was your character responsible for the death of his/her parents/guardians?" Answering yes increases your score by 2. This makes little sense to me, I would think doing something like that would show the character to be malicious and would LOWER the score. As if the increase isn't weird enough, why increase it by TWO?

I think it means something more like, "Was your character indirectly responsible for the death of his/her parents/guardians, and does he/she often feel angsty about this?"

[Tom_Violence]

The other thing that I'm confused about is some things that I would think would DECREASE it instead INCREASES it. For example:
"Was your character responsible for the death of his/her parents/guardians?" Answering yes increases your score by 2. This makes little sense to me, I would think doing something like that would show the character to be malicious and would LOWER the score. As if the increase isn't weird enough, why increase it by TWO?

My interpretation was that things like that are thrown in just cos they're kinda cheesy.

[Lord Seth]

Well, in "Start of Darkness" it's revealed that Xykon killed his parents, which was intended to make him a less likable antagonist.

I guess it depends on the circumstances, but generally I would say killing your own parents is the antithesis of what a Mary Sue is, and I find it very strange that it would increase your score. Having your parents killed in front of you is Mary Sue-ish, but actually being the one to kill them is a totally different matter.

[Morty]

Anyhow, tree-gods. I'm sure Mookie means for this to be a meritocracy ("nobility is not granted by wealth or power") but it really seems more like the divine right of kings. After all, what if the tree-gods just like people with tusks and missing legs? It's all about the metric you're using

Truly, Mookie is the unquestionable master of making things look directly opposite to what he meant them to look like.

[averagejoe]

I thought that too... but then I came to realize - it's just the opposite.

The "ha" in ShaLIF are the only lower-case letters in the entire comic. It's not that "LIF" is capitalized, it's that "ha" completely breaks his comic font, for no apparant reason...

Possibly an acronym, like HiME?

Basically the same joke. Only that it's funnier when the Jaegers do it and the Foglios made it one joke among several in that update, while it was the only one Mookie managed to cram in his strip (apart from economic lingo).

(It's not like the Foglios invented it, of course.)

Actually, I was going through the archives of Girl Genius, and I noticed something a little disturbing. (See the sign on the lamp post.)

Also, I've always thought that Vanamonde von Mekkahn looked a bit like Celesto, but that's probably just me being paranoid...

[Johnny Blade]

Ah, I can hardly wait to see the elves. I wonder what real-world culture Mookie is going to clumsily caricature this time?

Hmm, usually Elves aren't used to depict any (foreign) culture. Mostly, they are what the author believes to be an ideal society.
However, they might therefore be Japanese in this case.

I dunno, that one kinda is so old that its a bit hard to have a go at Mookie for 'stealing' it. But by all means have a go at him for falling back on such an ancient crutch.

Eh, he got it from somewhere. It might as well be Girl Genius, I thought.
But yeah, this wasn't exactly revolutionary when the Foglios used it.

Also, signed up for a tour? Of what, the country? That's like saying you signed up for a day tour of France. How small can this place be that cruise ships offers a tour?

I really think it's the whole country. Remember how most characters seem to know each other? Luna and Jayden even are childhood friends, as are Dominic and Stonewater.
Dominion isn't just a small world, it's tiny.

Anyhow, tree-gods. I'm sure Mookie means for this to be a meritocracy ("nobility is not granted by wealth or power") but it really seems more like the divine right of kings. After all, what if the tree-gods just like people with tusks and missing legs? It's all about the metric you're using

Eh, the idea of meritocracy easily - some might say inevitably - descends into elitism anyway.
And it's not like Mookie was even trying to avoid such accusations.

Also, I've always thought that Vanamonde von Mekkahn looked a bit like Celesto, but that's probably just me being paranoid...

Well, it's probably the hair colors.
(And their preferred style of clothing, although that is almost obligatory for characters with said blonde/black hair colors. No, really.)