Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire

[Winterwind]

Could someone maybe explain to a stupid non-native speaker what the joke about "whine and cheese" is? Is that some slang term also related to S&M, or what?

[sihnfahl]

Could someone maybe explain to a stupid non-native speaker what the joke about "whine and cheese" is? Is that some slang term also related to S&M, or what?

Wine and cheese; standard party appetizer fare. Unrelated to S&M.

Yeah, it's a FOOD joke.

[Winterwind]

Wine and cheese; standard party appetizer fare. Unrelated to S&M.

Yeah, it's a FOOD joke.

Oh. Ooooh, now I get it.

Okay, that didn't need any special knowledge or language skills.
Guess I just thought in a too complicated manner.

[Morty]

What I'm really amazed about is how can Mookie still have fanbase. Also, did anyone attempt to gather all Mookie's violations of logical consistency in his own comic strip and show it to him?

Law of Conservation of Characters. Important things only happen to 1st and 2nd tier characters in the comic. No one else really matters, except as victims or straw men. If he introduces someone, he has to make them a 1st or 2nd tier character, so whenever possible, he uses someone preexisting. To have someone else be a possible candidate would mean fleshing them out. Or at least giving them one- or two-dimensional personality traits that he can ignore whenever they become inconvenient.

Proper term is "caste", not "tier" .

[sihnfahl]

Oh. Ooooh, now I get it.

Okay, that didn't need any special knowledge or language skills.
Guess I just thought in a too complicated manner.

Yeah, Mookie's not being too creative here. Sledgehammer jokes.

[Humbug]

Oooh! I see now, thanks, Takrean.

[averagejoe]

Well, to be fair, he had to plan at least two days in advance to set up the wine and cheese joke. Which is, you know, a lot for this strip.

[Tekraen]

I'm not sure what's stupider. The attempts at jokes or the posts in the various fansites.

They're running neck and neck, though that Keenspot thread that ElfLad posted is going to edge it out.

One could say he was almost witty trying to link the cheese and whine joke with the sub sandwich, but it faceplanted enough to leave cracks in the granite.

[Khosan]

Good grief.

That Jehuty person made my brain ache.

What the **** is supposed to be funny about a sandwich?

[Tekraen]

The size of the sandwich itself also proves that Mookie has no sense of scale.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I'm beginning to suspect that Mookie is slowly becoming aware that he can't write a "dark and serious" Arc for DD which will be taken seriously. Perhaps he could have at some point, but not now.

*Engaging Rant Engine*

Spoiler

Show

To start with, his choice of lead characters for this Arc are all wrong. Milov and Jayden, formerly stout and noble defenders of all that are good, are suddenly experiencing Character Derailment on an epic scale by becoming creatures of rage and self-pity, respectively. This is Not As We Know Them, to a degree that makes Siegfried's yo-yo characterization almost acceptable. I've not read the other forums, but I'm willing to bet that nobody is really "feeling" the conflict between the two of them - since they were meaningless bit players the whole time.

At least Stunt & Bumper went through an entire Arc of development before they actually changed. Milov & Jayden had all their changes occur either off-stage or instantaneously.

But what is almost worse is that Luna & Gothy (whose name is way too much like Nielen) are given this Arc to act like heroes. Gothy, maybe he'd have a chance at real development and prove himself, but he has to act as second banana to Luna - and this is a problem.

Why? Because Luna's on-again off-again depression was never really resolved (she had no "on-screen" resolution of her feelings of self-doubt that wasn't immediately contradicted) and so it is incongruous that she should be at the heart of a relationship-heavy solution. There is nothing in this situation that makes her well equipped to deal with it, nor are there believable opportunities for her to come to terms with her own self-doubt, considering the fact that her traditional pillars of support (Dominic, Jayden, Melna) are either out of reach, or Not Themselves at the moment.

But let's assume a best-case scenario (*shudder*) which is that Dominic takes control again. Well, what are the possible outcomes?
1) Siegfried is "saved" and Killed Off For Real.
2) Siegfried remains bound and unredeemed, proving a true failure for Dominic.

In the first case, Siegfried can only be legitimately redeemed if he *realizes* he may have things he needs redeeming. See the last part of the Miko Arc of OoTS for an excellent example of this. Since he was still a Magnificent Bastard before his death, the only way this could possibly happen is either Redemption Equals Death (which has not, and cannot be, set up well) or further Spikeification in which he has been dealing with these various flaws internally since his soul was bound. In either case, this is a cheap redemption.

Case 2 would be a fine resolution, but I see nothing sad or dark about it. If anything, it would return balance to the Force... I mean, strip.

So where's the tragedy? The most obvious source remaining is the relationship between Milov and Jayden (and between them and Dominic). If either relationship is left as dissolved at the end of the Arc, then a "permanent" wound will have been suffered - and one that should not be easily fixed.

Unfortunately, Mookie can't leave well enough alone. After bringing Klo Tark back after his heroic sacrifice, he sent a message to his readers that Death Is Cheap, and I doubt *anyone* expects him to leave anything important broken; and true drama comes from when the viewer cares about the loss. If Jayden and Milov break up, who cares?; they were bit players anyhow, and they're no more endearing now than they were earlier. And character death? Nobody would buy it even if Luna herself were killed.

Thus, Mookie has set up a world where there cannot *be* serious drama because nothing bad happens to people we care about, ever. The proliferation of jokes now seems to suggest that Mookie has realized this, and may even drop the arc. The alternative, that these jokes are "comic relief" for the Serious Drama that we've been sitting through, suggests that the Arc will steadily degrade further into farce until it is unreadable.

*Rant Cycle Complete*

Um, sorry about that, but today felt like a good day to cry in frustration. Two unrelated (or tangentially related) puns in one strip was a red flag for me. The short version is that Mookie is either aware that drama is impossible, and will cut this arc short, or he's blissfully unaware and this arc will degrade into a deep farce. Well, deeper anyhow.

EDIT: Added spoiler tag for courtesy's sake

[Tirian]

The size of the sandwich itself also proves that Mookie has no sense of scale.

Not really. The width of my four fingers is three inches, and if I were holding a foot-long unsliced sub it would look a whole lot like what was drawn. There is arguably a problem in that his right hand would have to be holding it further back to keep it from falling apart, but he doesn't have a lot of meat in there and maybe he is using stale bread.

What surprises me most about this strip is that Mookie is advertising a three day gap in the story but he didn't pad these out into two days worth of jokes. I would have figured that the two punchlines would have worked better if the readers didn't have reason to assume that they'd be related.

[Gez]

For some reason, I'm reminded of the DD slay that used the Penny Arcade strip.

edit: Oh god, that thread is like a train wreck. He keeps digging and digging!

And apparently, I'm the only one that the absence of submarines in that story bothered. I mean submarines are the reason you crazy Americans call sandwiches "subs." Without submarines in the universe, the joke just doesn't work. What's next? What about a Paris-Brest? It's called after a bicycle race between two cities in France, it should fit the Mookiverse at least as well as submarine sandwiches.

[ElfLad]

The size of the sandwich itself also proves that Mookie has no sense of scale.

Panel 2 - Dominic has enormous hands or a tiny, tiny head.

[Tekraen]

And apparently, I'm the only one that the absence of submarines in that story bothered. I mean submarines are the reason you crazy Americans call sandwiches "subs." Without submarines in the universe, the joke just doesn't work. What's next? What about a Paris-Brest? It's called after a bicycle race between two cities in France, it should fit the Mookiverse at least as well as submarine sandwiches.

No, it's just one more in a host of inconsistencies. Then again, Callan is supposed to be the USA with magic replacing technology, so there's some magical...yellow...submarine...somewhere.

@)#(%. If anyone keeps kvetching about the fact that there's sub sandwiches (at least "hero" sandwiches would've worked! C'mon!), you know this pun is going to be used.

And as to regards of the sammich size - I meant more by the fact that a hoagie that size is going to make Dom's stomach explode, especially since we haven't seen any food preservation techniques to date, unless I missed something.

[ElfLad]

And as to regards of the sammich size - I meant more by the fact that a hoagie that size is going to make Dom's stomach explode, especially since we haven't seen any food preservation techniques to date, unless I missed something.

Magical food preservation

[busterswd]

Sadomasochism puns. Mookie, you are one classy-ass mother.

Spoiler

Show

CLASSY ASS-MOTHER, LOL XKCD

Also, A DD fan says something stupid (scroll down)

I was reading it and thinking "how will I know which one ElfLad is talking about...?"

That got answered quickly.

Good lord that kid is retarded.


Edit: To be honest, I think if he had put that in immediately after another Rachel reappearence, it might've actually been a good joke.

[Fury1671]

This comic wouldn't have been too bad if it was properly organized. Ditch the last four panels. Give the us some foreshadowing about what Emo McScarEye and Luna are going to do next. Then have that cheese and whine pun at the end. Or if you want a more serious comic, ditch the pun and show us the Furry or Jayden.

BAM. 1000% improvement.

As you can tell, I really don't remember some characters names due to not caring.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Magical food preservation

As seen here

EDIT: Woot! Level up!

[BlackStaticWolf]

And apparently, I'm the only one that the absence of submarines in that story bothered. I mean submarines are the reason you crazy Americans call sandwiches "subs." Without submarines in the universe, the joke just doesn't work. What's next? What about a Paris-Brest? It's called after a bicycle race between two cities in France, it should fit the Mookiverse at least as well as submarine sandwiches.

I'm willing to forgive it. After, a "kwalish sandwich" just doesn't have the same ring to it, ya know?

[16bitperformanc]

i really need to know is there meant to be any sort of pun at the end of todays comic

[sihnfahl]

@)#(%. If anyone keeps kvetching about the fact that there's sub sandwiches (at least "hero" sandwiches would've worked! C'mon!), you know this pun is going to be used.

"I know why Siegfriend went to Hell. I have NO idea how Jayden and Milov will react when I tell them. So before I go and save the day again, I have to enjoy... MY HERO!"

i really need to know is there meant to be any sort of pun at the end of todays comic

No, just a double-entendre. (And a poor one at that)

[averagejoe]

The size of the sandwich itself also proves that Mookie has no sense of scale.

Nah, that's just to underline the phallic imagery.

[Gez]

I'm willing to forgive it. After, a "kwalish sandwich" just doesn't have the same ring to it, ya know?

I've got a fondness for the word "kwalish" (ever since I asked an English teacher about what sort of crustacean exactly it was, heh) so I'm going to agree with you and say it doens't have the same ring -- it has a better ring.

[16bitperformanc]

Hmm i wonder why Siggy went to hell? could it by any chance be that he had an affair beat the living sh*t out of people was a rascist b*stard and so on. Or maybe it was because he liked kittens ? you decide

But i actually think that Siggy could've possibly given his soul away to a demon or something awful like that

Also some1 should really tell Mookie to look at this forum

[sihnfahl]

Hmm i wonder why Siggy went to hell?

Because, for future plot, Mookie sent him there!

(I really don't feel like channeling nega-DDverse at the moment. Today's strip just sucks the life out...)

[16bitperformanc]

that comment about how i wonder why siggy went to hell was sarcasim

[Winterwind]

Great rant, Oracle_Hunter, even though I arrive at somewhat different conclusions. Mainly because I got a different impression of what Mookie thinks of his own comic myself from all the previous strips.

I'm beginning to suspect that Mookie is slowly becoming aware that he can't write a "dark and serious" Arc for DD which will be taken seriously. Perhaps he could have at some point, but not now.

I don't think so. I rather presume that he knows as much about his comic as that it is supposed to be humorous and it is supposed to have dramatic storylines, so he just tries to have both as much as possible. Of course the way he does it the one invalidates the other, but Mookie would have to be a better writer than he is to be aware of that.

To start with, his choice of lead characters for this Arc are all wrong. Milov and Jayden, formerly stout and noble defenders of all that are good, are suddenly experiencing Character Derailment on an epic scale by becoming creatures of rage and self-pity, respectively. This is Not As We Know Them, to a degree that makes Siegfried's yo-yo characterization almost acceptable. I've not read the other forums, but I'm willing to bet that nobody is really "feeling" the conflict between the two of them - since they were meaningless bit players the whole time.

That's true, but again I don't think that's how Mookie sees these characters. I got the impression, rather, that for him these are well-developed characters who have been around the comic since many years, and therefore have obtained the audience's affection. These are, in fact, underdevelopped bit players, but I believe Mookie sees them as major characters and their break-up as very serious tragedy.

At least Stunt & Bumper went through an entire Arc of development before they actually changed. Milov & Jayden had all their changes occur either off-stage or instantaneously.

And completely out of the blue on top of that. You're perfectly right, they are Not As We Know Them.

But what is almost worse is that Luna & Gothy (whose name is way too much like Nielen) are given this Arc to act like heroes. Gothy, maybe he'd have a chance at real development and prove himself, but he has to act as second banana to Luna - and this is a problem.

Although I believe that Mookie tried to signalise that Nimmel is, in fact, more intelligent than Luna - remember who always wins in their chess games?
However, I don't think this will be how this arc goes anymore, seeing that Dominic is awake again.

Why? Because Luna's on-again off-again depression was never really resolved (she had no "on-screen" resolution of her feelings of self-doubt that wasn't immediately contradicted) and so it is incongruous that she should be at the heart of a relationship-heavy solution. There is nothing in this situation that makes her well equipped to deal with it, nor are there believable opportunities for her to come to terms with her own self-doubt, considering the fact that her traditional pillars of support (Dominic, Jayden, Melna) are either out of reach, or Not Themselves at the moment.

My problem with that part is, rather, that Luna should not have self-doubts to begin with. When was the last time she was angsty? What about all the many occurences of her remembering her worth all on her own and becoming active instead of depressed? When Klo Tark tried to goad her by trying to make her believe she had failed and was responsible for Dominic's impending death, did she wallow in self-pity? No, she refuted Klo Tark's claim and tried to blast him! Is that the reaction of a person overwhelmed with self-doubts? And since then she should have grown rather more confident than less.
What I am trying to say is, Luna had a very clear character development arc where she shed her self-doubts and insecurity. That she suddenly is angsty or "emotionally damaged" again completely goes against her character's development of the past three years.

But let's assume a best-case scenario (*shudder*) which is that Dominic takes control again. Well, what are the possible outcomes?
1) Siegfried is "saved" and Killed Off For Real.
2) Siegfried remains bound and unredeemed, proving a true failure for Dominic.

You forget 3): Siegfried is saved by The Dominic and returns to the living.
Yes, I know that usually Redemption Equals Death, but Mookie's bad writing goes even beyond TVTropes now and then (on the occassions when it is not being text book examples of all the bad clichés).

In the first case, Siegfried can only be legitimately redeemed if he *realizes* he may have things he needs redeeming. See the last part of the Miko Arc of OoTS for an excellent example of this. Since he was still a Magnificent Bastard before his death, the only way this could possibly happen is either Redemption Equals Death (which has not, and cannot be, set up well) or further Spikeification in which he has been dealing with these various flaws internally since his soul was bound. In either case, this is a cheap redemption.

Or Dominic just "lightoftruths" him and all is over suddenly.
No, I rather doubt that one... actually, I rather think what we will get is a scene where Siggy is ordered by Karnak to kill Milov or (more likely) Jayden and is so repulsed by that that he regains control over himself.

Case 2 would be a fine resolution, but I see nothing sad or dark about it. If anything, it would return balance to the Force... I mean, strip.

Except Mookie loves his characters. Of course Siegfried being forced to remain in Hell would be something horrible and tragic!

So where's the tragedy? The most obvious source remaining is the relationship between Milov and Jayden (and between them and Dominic). If either relationship is left as dissolved at the end of the Arc, then a "permanent" wound will have been suffered - and one that should not be easily fixed.

I think that's what will happen, for once.

Unfortunately, Mookie can't leave well enough alone. After bringing Klo Tark back after his heroic sacrifice, he sent a message to his readers that Death Is Cheap, and I doubt *anyone* expects him to leave anything important broken; and true drama comes from when the viewer cares about the loss. If Jayden and Milov break up, who cares?; they were bit players anyhow, and they're no more endearing now than they were earlier. And character death? Nobody would buy it even if Luna herself were killed.

Three things. One, Mookie mistakes his bit players for much more endearing than they are. We do not care about them (actually, I even do a bit ), but we are supposed to.
Two, Mookie is likely not aware of the can of worms he opened when he brought Klo Tark back. It was just his Hollywood drive to tack a happy end on something remotely sad that had happened in the comic; I bet he didn't waste a thought on what this would imply for the metaplot, and neither is he aware of it now. So, in his belief, a character death would be something impressive and striking.
Three, if I remember Mookie's bio from the DD page correctly (which is gone now, for some reason), he said that he loves comic books and happy ends. I think, therefore, that tragedy to him means something different than to us: A state of something not being ideal and happy for a while where the happy end does not follow instantly, but only later.

Thus, Mookie has set up a world where there cannot *be* serious drama because nothing bad happens to people we care about, ever. The proliferation of jokes now seems to suggest that Mookie has realized this, and may even drop the arc. The alternative, that these jokes are "comic relief" for the Serious Drama that we've been sitting through, suggests that the Arc will steadily degrade further into farce until it is unreadable.
*Rant Cycle Complete*

I vote for the alternative. Specifically, I think these jokes are comic relief for both the Serious Drama we have sat through and will yet be sitting through. Reasoning see above.

Panel 2 - Dominic has enormous hands or a tiny, tiny head.

The sad thing about that second panel is that I needed a few seconds to realise that Bumper was joking when he spoke that "O Great Oracle" line. That's how much I have grown used to our jokes about Dominic Deegan as the great oppressor.

that comment about how i wonder why siggy went to hell was sarcasim

The thing is, sadly, that I won't be surprised at all if all of the obvious failings on Siegfried's part were indeed not the reason for Siegfried's infernal fate, but Mookie made up some completely new reason instead. Because Mookie just is that bad a writer, and additionally completely oblivious the the flaws of all of his characters (hey, TVTrope masters, is there a trope for that?). Something completely cheap, like Siegfried being too close to an exploding Infernomancer and thus being tainted, or maybe him being too similar to the new King of Hell (in the regards that both wanted a woman who was engaged with someone else - although Siegfried got more lucky in his affair with Jayden than Karnak.did with Miranda).


I apologise for any grammar or orthography possibly maimed in this post, I'm sick and my brain feels like it was frozen in carbonite.

[Monnock]

Siegfried got more lucky in his affair with Jayden than Karnak.did with Miranda.

We don't know that. Zomg, future plot twist, as Dominic must deal with the divorce of his mother and father. Oh wait, I forgot, they are beacons of virtue.

I apologise for any grammar or orthography possibly maimed in this post, I'm sick and my brain feels like it was frozen in carbonite.

Apology accepted, Captain Needa.
*force choke*

[Winterwind]

We don't know that. Zomg, future plot twist, as Dominic must deal with the divorce of his mother and father. Oh wait, I forgot, they are beacons of virtue.

An interesting question would be to which caste Miranda and Donovan belong.
I am inclined to think that Donovan is Second Caste and Miranda is First - he is a non-magic-capable comic relief character, she is more powerful than even Dominic and Luna and has been shown to take out a powerful opponent permanently without anyone's help at least once (Helixa).

Apology accepted, Captain Needa.
*force choke*

*dies*
Aww, great, now you've done it. No wonder all Imperial officers are incompetent, given they are slaughtered before they can grow in experience.