Personal Woes and Advice 5

[Mith]

Disclaimer - WarKitty - the below post may read as critical of you, but that is not how it is meant. In no way am I saying that the therapy not working for you is your fault. The fact it didn't help you is probably due to a number of factors, both with you and the therapist in question, plus the situation in general. I'm just trying to help break down your experience into something that may help someone else as they go through therapy. Thank you for sharing your experiences.



Probably a bit of this, but also a therapist can only work on issues they are aware of. If WarKitty never brought it up, and (if asked about it) claimed it was a normal relationship, then the therapist may have no reason to explore it further. Yes, a very good therapist might be able to get to the bottom of it, despite denials, but someone who is just an ok therapist (not bad, but alright) might not.

This therapist and WarKitty were likely not a good match for each other. But to me the important lesson for others to take away from it is to not come into the therapy with preconceived notions of what needs (or doesn't need) to be fixed, and what is (or isn't) relevant. Bring forward all of the issues you're having, and let the therapist help you figure out what the source is. Nothing is irrelevant, especially if you're having problems with a particular relationship. Maybe those problems are your own, maybe they stem from the other person, but the therapist needs to be aware of them to help you.

For example, when I was with my psychiatrist for depression/anxiety symptoms, we eventually figured out I have OCD. But we only got there because someone else spurred the thought in me. Up until that point, I had considered my small obsessive "tics" as irrelevant and not harmful. Once I brought those things to him, we realized that my OCD was beneath a lot of my depressive symptoms.

I guess my thought process is that therapy is probably best done as deconstruction reconstruction to try and get all angles checked, not just the ones I focus on. If I am potentially missing something, and having stress I cannot alleviate counts as such, then depending on my viewpoint and prioritisation seems like it will constrain the effectiveness of therapy. In my experience, people assume that their situation approaches normal unless they have strong indicators to the contrary.

To be fair, the above method may actually be what is/should be done, or may hit snags that may have the Ethics Board dropping by for tea.

[WarKitty]

This therapist and WarKitty were likely not a good match for each other. But to me the important lesson for others to take away from it is to not come into the therapy with preconceived notions of what needs (or doesn't need) to be fixed, and what is (or isn't) relevant. Bring forward all of the issues you're having, and let the therapist help you figure out what the source is. Nothing is irrelevant, especially if you're having problems with a particular relationship. Maybe those problems are your own, maybe they stem from the other person, but the therapist needs to be aware of them to help you.

Therapists - we're talking about as I recall 5 different professionals.

The problem with "bring everything" is you just don't have time to do that. I'd say in order to bring forward everything that I was seeing as on the same level as my parents, the only focus of our sessions would have been on spewing out all the different frustrations and irritations in my life. You're getting to a level of information beyond where it's realistic to actually be able to recall and sort through everything. It might be possible in some sort of intensive in-patient program, but there's just no way a weekly therapy appointment could get through all of that info. Everyone's life has a million things wrong and tiny frustrations that are just part of how life goes - you don't report these because they're business as usual.

As someone who is in no way qualified to do therapy, that sounds like your therapist(s) had an idea of what the problem you had going in. While a lot of mental issues can be entirely internal, a lot of them are external factors that are internalised. I am surprised they didn't start by trying to get a picture of what your social net was like in the first few sessions.

As I recall, they did but it was often very perfunctory - like if I said "x relationship is ok" there wasn't any inquiry past that. Which if you're used to seeing toxic relationships as normal, won't really uncover anything.

I would say the other frustration is that, while they were pretty good about saying that not every therapist could help everyone, there was pretty commonly an attitude that therapy can't hurt. And I think that really threw me, because if you're being told you can only get help through therapy, but you've gone to a couple different ones and it's actively made things worse, where do you turn then? Especially if the mental health system itself seems to be insisting that doesn't happen?

[Mith]

My reasoning for a systematic "bring it all out" is to prevent biases on patient and therapist part from drawing incorrect conclusions and causing said harm, bug I do see the logistical challenge involved in such an endeavour.

[ve4grm]

Therapists - we're talking about as I recall 5 different professionals.

The problem with "bring everything" is you just don't have time to do that. I'd say in order to bring forward everything that I was seeing as on the same level as my parents, the only focus of our sessions would have been on spewing out all the different frustrations and irritations in my life. You're getting to a level of information beyond where it's realistic to actually be able to recall and sort through everything. It might be possible in some sort of intensive in-patient program, but there's just no way a weekly therapy appointment could get through all of that info. Everyone's life has a million things wrong and tiny frustrations that are just part of how life goes - you don't report these because they're business as usual.

Fair enough. Like I said, I did the same when I did mine, so I definitely get what you mean.

[Algeh]

*sigh*

My next door neighbors are building a fort for their teenage boys to hang out in. It's right in the far back corner of their yard, up against my fence, and so far consists of an elevated platform about 5-6 feet off the ground.

Which makes it perfect for looking over my 6-8 foot solid wooden fence and into my backyard swimming pool.

Did I mention I teach math to at least one of these boys at the local public high school? Because I totally do, and did not really want a teenage student witness for all of the swimming and beer drinking I get up to on evenings and weekends in my private, fenced backyard.

Also, their dog was up there today and I'm worried he'll jump into my yard from the platform the next time I have my mom's dog wandering around my yard. Possibly resulting in one or both of them ending up in the pool.

Joy.

(I'm sure it is against city code to build so close to the fence line, but they already have a ton of other unpermitted structures in their yard up against various lot lines, and they've lived here longer than I have so I'm really unwilling to call the city about it since I'm relatively new to the neighborhood and my yard also has assorted pre-existing structures too close to lot lines.)

(This is more venting than anything I think there's anything to be done about. It's just part of living in the city rather than on acreage. It's still pretty irritating, though.)

[ve4grm]

*sigh*

My next door neighbors are building a fort for their teenage boys to hang out in. It's right in the far back corner of their yard, up against my fence, and so far consists of an elevated platform about 5-6 feet off the ground.

I have no real advice about the platform in general (yes, it's likely too close to the property line, but if it was 2 feet back you'd still have the same privacy issue). If they're still building it, it may eventually include walls, so some patience might pay off for you here?

Regarding the dog, though, I'd voice that concern to the neighbour in question (as long as you're friendly with them). If they care for their pets, they won't likely want to see them get loose into another yard either, and might put up a wall to prevent it, thereby solving both of your problems under the guise of pet safety.

[Bastian Weaver]

So anyways.
We've been technically at war for years now, and I'm more or less sitting on my hands and doing nothing, which gets a little frustrating after a while. So I went to... what they call them... recruitment office?.. I told them that I should've gotten an officer rank as part of my university education, but I didn't get one because I was considered unfit for military service because of health issues. I asked if they would agree to check me again, and see if I can be an officer, since the last time they checked it was still peaceful times.
Well, I've had a nice chat with one of the doctors who found me perfectly healthy earwise, nosewise, and throatwise, when I was summoned to the commander's office, and he told me that I was, am, and always will be unfit for all things military, and that I should go home now and stop bothering him.
Which brings me back to sitting on my hands and doing nothing while there's a war. It's a little frustrating.

[WarKitty]

I guess what bothers me is: the line I've heard from pretty much everyone is, therapy is for everyone, you can't get better without therapy, therapy is the only appropriate and safe place to work out your issues, if you work at therapy you'll get results, but the only possible acceptable option is to go to therapy. If it doesn't work, just try another therapist, and keep trying until you find one, because that's the only solution.

And then I look at my life - I've had 5 therapists, that I recall, maybe more. I recall 3 different ones that actively pushed me towards being suicidal (ok, 2 if you count out the one that was plain old an *******), generally from the sense that I was "too messed up for therapy" and not even the therapist could get it. I definitely know other cases as well where it seemed that therapy was actively decreasing my ability to cope with life outside of therapy, and I don't remember any case where it helped at all. I understand about fit, but that's a pretty hefty cost for finding someone that fits, especially when there's no sort of checks or safety measures on it (a therapist who is causing a problem can't be the safety check for if that problem is going on). And at some point you do have to ask, is there something here other than blindly trying practitioners? But I've never found advertised techniques and specialties to be worth much.

At the time, I'd have said, maybe I'm such a broken freak that what works for everyone else can't work for me. I really doubt that. But there's got to be something that gives here.

[druid91]

I guess what bothers me is: the line I've heard from pretty much everyone is, therapy is for everyone, you can't get better without therapy, therapy is the only appropriate and safe place to work out your issues, if you work at therapy you'll get results, but the only possible acceptable option is to go to therapy. If it doesn't work, just try another therapist, and keep trying until you find one, because that's the only solution.

And then I look at my life - I've had 5 therapists, that I recall, maybe more. I recall 3 different ones that actively pushed me towards being suicidal (ok, 2 if you count out the one that was plain old an *******), generally from the sense that I was "too messed up for therapy" and not even the therapist could get it. I definitely know other cases as well where it seemed that therapy was actively decreasing my ability to cope with life outside of therapy, and I don't remember any case where it helped at all. I understand about fit, but that's a pretty hefty cost for finding someone that fits, especially when there's no sort of checks or safety measures on it (a therapist who is causing a problem can't be the safety check for if that problem is going on). And at some point you do have to ask, is there something here other than blindly trying practitioners? But I've never found advertised techniques and specialties to be worth much.

At the time, I'd have said, maybe I'm such a broken freak that what works for everyone else can't work for me. I really doubt that. But there's got to be something that gives here.

I mean, take this with a mountain of salt since I am in no way a medical professional or a mental health expert and almost certainly have my own mental issues....

But frankly the issue with Therapy is that a lot of modern psychology is either blatant Pseudoscience, or not even that. While it's not exactly a bunch of Hucksters, Psychology is an OLD branch of 'research' and while that can sometimes be beneficial, what it oftentimes means is that there's ten thousand different ideas about how to go about it, lots of detritus and garbage leftover from the past, and not a lot of real science or knowledge to go on.

Yes, it's PROBABLY better than not going to Therapy if you're really seriously affected. But if Science is a Metaphorical School of thought, Psychology is that one classroom that isn't really actively used all that much and has been gathering bits and pieces of furniture and quirky 'stuff' since 4th Century BC. It might help. It might not. It's not a hard science. So if it doesn't help, then I wouldn't feel the need to attribute their opinion that it can only help to little more than self importance and or desire for money.

[Tvtyrant]

I guess what bothers me is: the line I've heard from pretty much everyone is, therapy is for everyone, you can't get better without therapy, therapy is the only appropriate and safe place to work out your issues, if you work at therapy you'll get results, but the only possible acceptable option is to go to therapy. If it doesn't work, just try another therapist, and keep trying until you find one, because that's the only solution.

And then I look at my life - I've had 5 therapists, that I recall, maybe more. I recall 3 different ones that actively pushed me towards being suicidal (ok, 2 if you count out the one that was plain old an *******), generally from the sense that I was "too messed up for therapy" and not even the therapist could get it. I definitely know other cases as well where it seemed that therapy was actively decreasing my ability to cope with life outside of therapy, and I don't remember any case where it helped at all. I understand about fit, but that's a pretty hefty cost for finding someone that fits, especially when there's no sort of checks or safety measures on it (a therapist who is causing a problem can't be the safety check for if that problem is going on). And at some point you do have to ask, is there something here other than blindly trying practitioners? But I've never found advertised techniques and specialties to be worth much.

At the time, I'd have said, maybe I'm such a broken freak that what works for everyone else can't work for me. I really doubt that. But there's got to be something that gives here.

Psychology can't fix external problems, only internal ones. So if you are unhappy because you have anxiety issues, or need help with a phobia, therapy can be useful for learning coping techniques.

There aren't coping techniques for dealing with an awful job and an abusive parent. The solution to those problems is to create space, to cut contact and get a better job.

The natural coping methods are going to be to become emotionally catatonic so the abuse and anxiety affects you less. A therapist is going to see that depression and try to walk you out of it, but if the situation isn't fixed it is going to make you more sensitive to the abuse and make it worse.

[ve4grm]

I guess what bothers me is: the line I've heard from pretty much everyone is, therapy is for everyone, you can't get better without therapy, therapy is the only appropriate and safe place to work out your issues, if you work at therapy you'll get results, but the only possible acceptable option is to go to therapy. If it doesn't work, just try another therapist, and keep trying until you find one, because that's the only solution.

And then I look at my life - I've had 5 therapists, that I recall, maybe more. I recall 3 different ones that actively pushed me towards being suicidal (ok, 2 if you count out the one that was plain old an *******), generally from the sense that I was "too messed up for therapy" and not even the therapist could get it. I definitely know other cases as well where it seemed that therapy was actively decreasing my ability to cope with life outside of therapy, and I don't remember any case where it helped at all. I understand about fit, but that's a pretty hefty cost for finding someone that fits, especially when there's no sort of checks or safety measures on it (a therapist who is causing a problem can't be the safety check for if that problem is going on). And at some point you do have to ask, is there something here other than blindly trying practitioners? But I've never found advertised techniques and specialties to be worth much.

At the time, I'd have said, maybe I'm such a broken freak that what works for everyone else can't work for me. I really doubt that. But there's got to be something that gives here.

Yeah, the thing that the people giving that advice don't seem to get is that therapy isn't a solution, it's a tool. And just like any tool, it can be inappropriate for a task. You can have the nicest ratchet set money can buy, and it won't help if what you need is to extract a nail. And to say you can't get better without therapy, well, that's also bull. It might take longer and hurt more than if you had the right tools, but I'm sure you could pull that nail out of the board with just your fingers and teeth if you really tried. And it still might be more effective than trying to do it with a ratchet set.

...that analogy got away from me.

Whether the issue for you was therapy as a whole, those therapists in particular, or your state's mental health program in general, I couldn't say. Clearly it wasn't right for your particular issues, though. The fact that it pushed you towards worse outcomes is concerning. A good therapist should be able to recognize and rein in any negative effects, even if they can't push you in a positive direction. (That's generally what people are meaning when they say it can only help, is that just like a doctor a therapist shouldn't be doing harm.) I don't know if it's bad luck or systematic ineptitude, but I'm truly sorry you had to go through that.

Personally, I found a pcychiatrist helpful, but group therapy or CBT would have been a complete loss for me. My brain operates along particular lines, and I wouldn't have been able to adapt. For other people, it's amazingly useful, though. Same tool, different tasks.

So yeah, I'll recommend therapy to someone, but not as a miracle cure. It's a tool. Nothing more.

I mean, take this with a mountain of salt since I am in no way a medical professional or a mental health expert and almost certainly have my own mental issues....

But frankly the issue with Therapy is that a lot of modern psychology is either blatant Pseudoscience, or not even that.
...
It's not a hard science. So if it doesn't help, then I wouldn't feel the need to attribute their opinion that it can only help to little more than self importance and or desire for money.

Nah, it's not pseudoscience. Modern psychology is based on endless studies and statistics of what generally helps people. As such, it's decidedly a "soft" science, but it's still scientific in its methodology.

And yes, it has old roots, but that's like calling gravity a pseudoscience because it was defined by Newton and Galileo. It may be based off their work, but we've made tons of improvements since then.
(Or I suppose like claiming the earth isn't round because it's based off calculations by the ancient Greeks, but that's something people are actually claiming these days, and let's not get into that.)

Psychology can't fix external problems, only internal ones. So if you are unhappy because you have anxiety issues, or need help with a phobia, therapy can be useful for learning coping techniques.

There aren't coping techniques for dealing with an awful job and an abusive parent. The solution to those problems is to create space, to cut contact and get a better job.

The natural coping methods are going to be to become emotionally catatonic so the abuse and anxiety affects you less. A therapist is going to see that depression and try to walk you out of it, but if the situation isn't fixed it is going to make you more sensitive to the abuse and make it worse.

While psychology can't fix external problems, it can put you in a better state to deal with them yourself. If it works for you, that can be very helpful.

[Comrade]

I'm going to get a little rant-y.

So I got rejected by the university I applied to. This is despite the fact that I sat down with a counselor from that university and pored over my college transcripts and was told that I should have no problem getting into that university. This is despite the fact that I have actual work experience in my major-- a lot more than I expect most applicants would have-- as well as plenty of community volunteer experience and active engagement in campus life. It's also despite the fact that I fulfilled all general education and major requirements and worked to help support myself and my family along the way, too. Heck, I even thought my personal essays were pretty good, just to top it off. Evidently the university didn't share my optimistic view of my own qualifications, which means I'm about to be twenty three years old and another year further from being able to get a BA and finally move on.

I'm pretty sure I know what it is. It's my GPA. It's not stellar. My first couple of years of college were marred by a. something of a depressive period and b. the fact that I was majoring in a subject that I was really not equipped to excel in (word to the wise, if you suck at math, physics is not the major for you). The latter is my own fault and I'll take the L for that. Anyway, as a confluence of those two things, I walked away from my first couple of years with some mediocre grades, including a couple of Fs. Decided I needed a break from college and focused for a couple of years on just working and getting money.

The thing is, though, ever since I went back to college, I have literally gotten nothing but As. Quite a few A+s, too. I found a major I could not only excel in but really be passionate about, I gained work experience in that major, I worked hard, I got the grades to show for it. And it still wasn't enough. A dozen As apparently doesn't offset a couple of Fs. I get that I screwed up because I was nineteen years old and not in the best mental place, but it feels like I literally cannot do anything to fix those mistakes no matter what I do. I got better grades-- hell, I got great grades. I got work experience in the major. I contributed to the campus. I don't know what else I could have done to tell this university that I'm worth taking.

As the cherry on top: I missed out on a potentially incredible job opportunity because I applied to this school. I was told I had great qualifications, relevant experience, and all the 'preferred' attributes in the job description, but as soon as I mentioned I was planning to transfer to this school (which is about an hour away from the workplace in question) it became clear that was going to be an issue. So I didn't get that job, and then I didn't get into the school. It's like something out of Shakespeare.

[Chen]

What exactly is your GPA? A couple of Cs and Fs will hurt your GPA but 12 As should definitely bring it back up. Unless its an extremely competitive program a 3 GPA should generally be sufficient. As a worst case consider doing the minimum you need to just get a basic bachelors (regardless of major) and use that plus whatever experience you have to get the job you want (seems you were already qualified for at least one job you wanted).

[druid91]

Nah, it's not pseudoscience. Modern psychology is based on endless studies and statistics of what generally helps people. As such, it's decidedly a "soft" science, but it's still scientific in its methodology.

And yes, it has old roots, but that's like calling gravity a pseudoscience because it was defined by Newton and Galileo. It may be based off their work, but we've made tons of improvements since then.
(Or I suppose like claiming the earth isn't round because it's based off calculations by the ancient Greeks, but that's something people are actually claiming these days, and let's not get into that.)

The issue is that none of these studies are done with scientific rigor in place. Thousands of studies are non-replicable, and you have famous prolific Psychologists who go around spouting absolute nonsense about mythic archetypes.

It's like performing a study on say.... the potential negative reactions of a drug on people, but then doing absolutely nothing to stop the people from taking other drugs that could react with it. Or just not taking the drug itself. Combined with the fact that there's no objective measures to use beyond the patients own words.

What it is, is a deeply and systematically refined form of 'The Friend Talk' Where you chat with a friend who tries to help you through something. And while this CAN be helpful, it's not necessarily so.

[halfeye]

The issue is that none of these studies are done with scientific rigor in place. Thousands of studies are non-replicable, and you have famous prolific Psychologists who go around spouting absolute nonsense about mythic archetypes.

It's like performing a study on say.... the potential negative reactions of a drug on people, but then doing absolutely nothing to stop the people from taking other drugs that could react with it. Or just not taking the drug itself. Combined with the fact that there's no objective measures to use beyond the patients own words.

What it is, is a deeply and systematically refined form of 'The Friend Talk' Where you chat with a friend who tries to help you through something. And while this CAN be helpful, it's not necessarily so.

This was complete cobblers.

The famous psychologist spouting about archetypes was probably Jung, he was influential but he's been dead since 1961. There are hundreds of objective measures used in psychology, tachistoscopes for one, they have problems due to interacting with humans, but they exist. Psychology is the study of the mind, and it's a vast field, abnormal psychology is maybe 10% of the field as a whole. It's not perfect, physics and maths aren't perfect either, but each of them is much better than nothing.

[Comrade]

What exactly is your GPA? A couple of Cs and Fs will hurt your GPA but 12 As should definitely bring it back up. Unless its an extremely competitive program a 3 GPA should generally be sufficient. As a worst case consider doing the minimum you need to just get a basic bachelors (regardless of major) and use that plus whatever experience you have to get the job you want (seems you were already qualified for at least one job you wanted).

I think it's just over 3, 3.07 or something to that effect. And it's not an extremely competitive program, either, so... I really don't know. All else considered, I'm pretty sure the GPA is the culprit. Nothing else stands out as a particularly obvious reason. It still doesn't make sense, though, because I was told straight up by somebody who looked over my GPA and whatnot that I should have no issue getting in. I forgot life has a knack for setting everything up to appear to be on the right track, only to throw it all off the rails at the last minute. It's such a recurring pattern I'd almost believe I was cursed (I don't, obviously, but the constancy of it is... frustrating).

I'm going to give the university a call on Monday and see if any insights can be gleaned on the matter. I'm guessing I won't be able to change the decision that way, but at least I can ask them why I was told I'd get in only to get shot down.

[Algeh]

I think it's just over 3, 3.07 or something to that effect. And it's not an extremely competitive program, either, so... I really don't know. All else considered, I'm pretty sure the GPA is the culprit. Nothing else stands out as a particularly obvious reason. It still doesn't make sense, though, because I was told straight up by somebody who looked over my GPA and whatnot that I should have no issue getting in. I forgot life has a knack for setting everything up to appear to be on the right track, only to throw it all off the rails at the last minute. It's such a recurring pattern I'd almost believe I was cursed (I don't, obviously, but the constancy of it is... frustrating).

I'm going to give the university a call on Monday and see if any insights can be gleaned on the matter. I'm guessing I won't be able to change the decision that way, but at least I can ask them why I was told I'd get in only to get shot down.

Calling them is probably a good idea. When I was waitlisted for a graduate program I wanted (which was the first time I'd EVER not gotten into someplace I'd applied and actually completed the application for rather than flaked out partway through, so I was pretty shocked and also hadn't applied anywhere else - I suspect teacher training programs are much less impressed by "smart but weird" people than computer science departments are, so I wasn't expecting any problems because I was used to a different set of admission criteria), I called them pretty politely but relentlessly to let them know I was still interested and wanted to know if a spot opened up, and I suspect that's probably part of why they eventually accepted me.

Trying to phrase it as "how can I make my application stronger in future years?" might get you some useful feedback.

Of course, it could also just be that the applicant pool this year was stronger than usual, so people who usually would get in didn't. Sometimes it really isn't about you as much as the overall pool.

[Chen]

Of course, it could also just be that the applicant pool this year was stronger than usual, so people who usually would get in didn't. Sometimes it really isn't about you as much as the overall pool.

Yeah could unfortunately just be this. Your GPA is solid. I agree with the others to call and see if you can get some info on what to do with it. Were you already studying at this university? If not applying for another program there and then transferring internally next semester could be an option as well.

[Comrade]

I wasn't already studying there, I was planning to transfer there from a community college. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if that helps at all.

Honestly it's just the cherry on top of a weekend of general disappointment. Somebody who works in a government office I interned in recommended me for a job on a local measure campaign, and when I went in to do a bit of volunteering for them, the guy who supervised me said he'd recommend me for the job as well. I was told I'd hear back about when to go back in to meet the campaign manager. Past couple of days, radio silence. Around the same time, I'd gone on a few dates with somebody I liked and who seemed to like me-- we had our in-jokes, we were talking every day, the works-- but yesterday she shot me a message saying she didn't think she could be in a relationship at the moment but that I was 'super cool' and she wanted to remain friends. I'd be happy to remain friends. Considering my luck the past few days, I'm guessing that's going to find a way to go awry, too.

So between that, the job, and the school, this weekend has me feeling pretty dismal. Feeling like things are bound to go wrong no matter how things seem to be going well is my Achilles' Heel and all three of those things are hitting that heel hard. I was feeling pretty great about things not long ago but at the moment I think I'd mostly like to just lie down, watch an ungodly number of West Wing episodes, and not do or try anything that could result in any more disappointment or ruined expectations.

[factotum]

So between that, the job, and the school, this weekend has me feeling pretty dismal.

I think everyone has a weekend like that on occasion. Mine was when I crashed my car, then got locked out of my shared student flat while my flatmates were due to be away all weekend, then I badly cut my finger and needed to go to the hospital to have four stitches in it while attempting to break back in to the flat while causing as little damage as possible. I still remember it quite clearly 30 years later, but the immediate problems will pass.

[JusticeZero]

We are managing my mother's house, which has two downstairs apartments.
Our daughter and her 3 y/o grandchild were recently thrown out of a homeless program (she suffers some serious executive function issues that aren't very obvious) and are expecting a call on a possible apartment next week. In the meanwhile they are staying here because they have to stay SOMEWHERE.

The toddler likes to stomp. EVERY time, someone stops her immediately. We keep her in the rooms over the vacant units.

The tenant downstairs (other unit temporarily vacant) just came charging up, pounded on the back door, and started a screaming fight with everyone here demanding that the child be silenced because "I pay rent!" I was just sitting back like "Oh for fraggle sake, this is stupid.."
Still? Stressed out and frustrated because I can think of no way to deal with any of this. I mean, it's not like we can chloroform a three year old.

[dehro]

Extra pair of socks and no shoes, to muffle the sound?

[JusticeZero]

Extra pair of socks and no shoes, to muffle the sound?

Already done.
We had to talk to the police a few minutes ago.

[Bastian Weaver]

The toddler likes to stomp.

How about the usual treatment? Offer a game of hide and seek, then sit with a cup of coffee and yell out "Oh, where could she be hiding? I can't find her! Oh, I know where I should check! No, not there! Oh, where could she be!.."
Not a permanent solution, but it should give the downstair people a couple hours of peace and quiet.

[Chen]

Check your local bylaws regarding noise and such. Usually there are periods where it's supposed to be quiet but otherwise, legally, you're generally in the clear.

Now aside legally, the onus is generally on the parents/guardians to ensure children aren't that disruptive. A 3 year old won't always remember to not stomp, but if you consistently tell them to stop they should eventually at least reduce the frequency of it. If it's temporary let the tenants know that as well.

[dehro]

Already done.
We had to talk to the police a few minutes ago.

now.. if the police sided with you guys, and told the tennants that you're not doing anything wrong, you should be in the clear. the tennants can move out, if they find it so unbearable.
if they issued a waring of some sort, you should look at the letter of the law, at maybe recording the actual sound of little thumper... or maybe even measure it decibel-wise, so that you at least know just how bad it is (maybe you're just used to it and it doesn't bother you so you don't see the entity of the issue).. if you find out the noise is indeed not quite civil, then you really should focus on educating the toddler.. just because she's 3, that doesn't mean she can't or shouldn't learn not to do whatever she wants. if the tennants are taking offense at what turns out to be a fairly limited issue, then they can go get stuffed. it's nothing to worry about, police visits notwithstanding. Next time they send the cops over, ask those very cops how they think you should address the issue from both a legal and practical standpoint. See if they can do better or suggest a way to solve it..

[Florian]

Check your local bylaws regarding noise and such. Usually there are periods where it's supposed to be quiet but otherwise, legally, you're generally in the clear.

In Germany, the police would quickly introduce your anus to one of their nightsticks when called regarding that particular topic.

Noise generated by children, especially by toddlers, is considered to be quite natural and to be tolerated at any time and under any circumstances.

The guy having had a screaming fit because of that should basically learn to duck and cover anytime he sees someone in uniform.

[Chen]

In Germany, the police would quickly introduce your anus to one of their nightsticks when called regarding that particular topic.

Noise generated by children, especially by toddlers, is considered to be quite natural and to be tolerated at any time and under any circumstances.

The guy having had a screaming fit because of that should basically learn to duck and cover anytime he sees someone in uniform.

Babies crying and the like, sure. A kid running around an apartment though? Definitely not acceptable at all hours the same as if anything were running around making noise at all hours. There were kids running around my street screaming at like 1 am this summer because their parents were sitting around drinking on their porch (which in and of itself is legal). The cops still warned them about the noise despite the fact it was kids making the noise.

[Comrade]

I wasn't already studying there, I was planning to transfer there from a community college. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if that helps at all.

Gave them a call and it turns out that counselor led me a little astray. She said one of the mathematics classes I'd taken fulfilled the mathematics transfer requirement-- suffice it to say, it doesn't, and that's why the application was rejected. There's an option to appeal on this basis, but sadly, with no email trail or solid evidence that I was misinformed, it's not liable to work out.

I do feel significantly better than I did over the weekend. Still a little dogged by a sense of pessimism, but I guess that beats dejection and despair.

[Algeh]

Gave them a call and it turns out that counselor led me a little astray. She said one of the mathematics classes I'd taken fulfilled the mathematics transfer requirement-- suffice it to say, it doesn't, and that's why the application was rejected. There's an option to appeal on this basis, but sadly, with no email trail or solid evidence that I was misinformed, it's not liable to work out.

I do feel significantly better than I did over the weekend. Still a little dogged by a sense of pessimism, but I guess that beats dejection and despair.

I suppose you can try to contact that counselor and see if she'll back you up that you were told that class would work. I wouldn't put a lot of stock in it helping you directly if her employment situation is at all tenuous since she'd be having to admit she screwed up, but being contacted by you on that subject might at least cause her to learn what the correct requirements are so the next person gets the correct information.