Stellaris II: I, For One, Welcome Our New Robot Fungus Hivemind Overlords

[Silverraptor]

Synthetic Dawn also adds a new end game crisis. But yeah, Utopia and leviathans are probably good.

[factotum]

Yeah, Utopia adds a lot of stuff that's really nice, definitely get that one. I would go with Leviathans as the other pick--it adds space monsters, enclaves, and the War in Heaven which can be real fun as a sort of "mid-game crisis".

[Kaptin Keen]

Yeah, Utopia adds a lot of stuff that's really nice, definitely get that one. I would go with Leviathans as the other pick--it adds space monsters, enclaves, and the War in Heaven which can be real fun as a sort of "mid-game crisis".

War in heaven is supposed to be FE's duking it out, right? I am right about that, right?

Because in the game I'm playing right now, there was a war in heaven between me and an alliance of two normal empires - and there's only one FE on the map, for some reason. I deliberately specified 2. So that's kinda weird.

[qechua]

War in heaven is supposed to be FE's duking it out, right? I am right about that, right?

Because in the game I'm playing right now, there was a war in heaven between me and an alliance of two normal empires - and there's only one FE on the map, for some reason. I deliberately specified 2. So that's kinda weird.

Looking at one of the latest dev diaries, it implies that fallen empires only get spawned if there is enough room (they need to be sufficient distance away from other empires). If there isn't room (usually because the galaxy is too crowded), it'll lower the number of FE's to fit them in, since some FE's act as walls to expansion early on

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I would actually suggest Synthetic Dawn over Leviathans. Synthetic races don't *HAVE* to be Determined Exterminators/Rogue Servitors/Assimilators, and in fact I feel that a basic AI race without one of these three traits makes for an extremely valuable race. Literally immortal Leaders (barring accidents) make for hitting cap skill much easier, which is really handy if you want to hit up all the Precursor quests, since generally at least one of them needs a Scientist with a level of at least 5 or so. It also means you can take 'leader level increases' as a racial trait and not be horrible. You can also later on tailor your people, which granted isn't *quite* as OP as it sounds, but it's still effectively having 10% to minerals and energy for the price of one (because you can create some with +Minerals and some with +Energy), and the min/maxer in me enjoys it. Not needing food is also pretty nifty, although you'll need more energy to compensate.

[InvisibleBison]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I've been looking at the prices, and I can actually afford to get Utopia, Leviathan and Synthetic Dawn, so that's what I'm going to do.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Unfortunately, Apocalypse is only 10% off, which doesn't entice me to buy it. I'm not paying 20$ for a Death Star, and I'm not paying $18 either. Sorry, I'm not paying what I would typically pay for an entire game for just one ship type.

This is my biggest complaint about Paradox in general. They value their DLC's content too high.

[factotum]

Unfortunately, Apocalypse is only 10% off, which doesn't entice me to buy it. I'm not paying 20$ for a Death Star, and I'm not paying $18 either. Sorry, I'm not paying what I would typically pay for an entire game for just one ship type.

If that's all the DLC had then I'd agree with you, but it also adds Titans and Marauders.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If that's all the DLC had then I'd agree with you, but it also adds Titans and Marauders.

Okay, I'm not paying $18 for Death Stars, a Titan class ship that I can only build one of, and Space Mongols.

[Caelestion]

I'm not sure what the formula is, but you can certainly build more than one Titan if your empire is large enough. I was able to build six Titans by the very end of my latest game.

[Silverraptor]

Okay, I'm not paying $18 for Death Stars, a Titan class ship that I can only build one of, and Space Mongols.

You can build more then 1 titan. You can have 1 titan for every 200 ship capacity you have.

[houlio]

Okay, I'm not paying $18 for Death Stars, a Titan class ship that I can only build one of, and Space Mongols.

It's definitely the weakest of them all so far. Compared to the most recent DLC, Distant Stars significantly expands the amount of anomalies, adds a few new leviathans, and also adds on entirely new gameplay content. Besides all that, it's also half the price. Apocalypse just doesn't really add in any content that makes a big difference in gameplay.

So far, I'd say that PDS has made a hit big DLC (Utopia) and a miss in Apocalypse. Seems to me that Utopia actually gave us a decent amount of stuff that interacted with the core gameplay, while Apocalypse's content is all partitioned off from the rest of the game. I'm imagining that the next big update will probably focus on internal politics/economy and/or on espionage/diplomacy, but that still leaves us to see whether or not the accompanying DLC will also add in a lot overall gameplay or just a few fancy bells and whistles to decorate the large free update.

[GameMaster_Phil]

I got Apocalypse because I'm a sucker for titans. But y'all are right, Utopia is way superior. If you only get 1 DLC, I'd call Utopia. From the cheaper DLCs I can tell that Leviathans is very good, and Distant Stars appears very well received.

Fallen Empires get a lot more dangerous if they can crack your planets, though.

Why does everyone hate my generic gestalt conciousness machine empire? I get that spiritualist empires don't like me, but why the Peaceful Traders?

And I learned the hard way why you don't invite a repugnant species to your federation.

RE: New DLC
I'd like to see more planetary special objects in the next DLC, like the Betharian Rocks or the Alien Pets, or the old factory, stuff like that. Something which might make smaller planets valuable. Or new planetary modifiers.

[Silverraptor]

I got Apocalypse because I'm a sucker for titans. But y'all are right, Utopia is way superior. If you only get 1 DLC, I'd call Utopia. From the cheaper DLCs I can tell that Leviathans is very good, and Distant Stars appears very well received.

Fallen Empires get a lot more dangerous if they can crack your planets, though.

Why does everyone hate my generic gestalt conciousness machine empire? I get that spiritualist empires don't like me, but why the Peaceful Traders?

And I learned the hard way why you don't invite a repugnant species to your federation.

RE: New DLC
I'd like to see more planetary special objects in the next DLC, like the Betharian Rocks or the Alien Pets, or the old factory, stuff like that. Something which might make smaller planets valuable. Or new planetary modifiers.

People hate gestalt consciousness in general, and vice versa. Whenever I encounter a hivemind, regardless if we are on generally good terms at the start, eventually while doing nothing on my part, their opinion will just shift negative. Machines also incur a negative opinion as well separately because they are not easy to judge what they are thinking. If you want people to like you you want to go for the emotion emulators perk. Also, rogue servitors cause people to generally like you. Authoritarian empires will automatically like you because you are willing servants.

[Cristo Meyers]

Would anyone mind giving me a crash-course in fleet building, specifically ship loadouts?

I'm thinking of starting up a new game, but the last time I played was all the way back before Cherryh and I gather a lot's changed since then.

I have all DLCs. I'm just looking for some pointers rather than thrash about and probably end up getting frustrated.

[factotum]

The most efficient loadouts for your ships rather depend on what enemy you're facing--something like a Fallen Empire fleet that's heavy on the shields and weak on hull and armour will go down faster to kinetic weapons than to lasers, for instance. If you're not sure what you'll be facing, I found that mixing lasers and kinetic weaponry gave a good mix of damage. I am also 100% sure that someone will be along shortly to give a super "kills anything" combo that is the bestest in the entire game...

[The_Snark]

I'm far from an expert, but I've had good experiences with missile-heavy loadouts, using kinetic weapons to fill the slots I can't put missiles in. Missiles now ignore shields completely, which means they start chewing through the enemy's armor while the kinetic weapons are still working on the shields - ideally, the armor goes down first, which means the kinetic weapons never suffer from their reduced efficacy against armor.

I usually opt for generic missiles, as opposed to swarmers or torpedoes; if you know in advance that your enemy has either lots of point-defense or none at all, I guess it might be better to specialize, but I haven't experimented a lot with that. For the kinetic weapons, I like autocannons, which get bonus hull damage in exchange for short range and being even worse against armor, which synergizes nicely with the missiles. (Also, hull sections with missile slots generally don't give you generic weapon slots any larger than Small.)

(Also also, that missile weapon slots aren't available on battleships and titans, so you'll have to either go without, or figure out a different weapon loadout for those. I don't have a lot of advice to offer there.)

[Silverraptor]

Would anyone mind giving me a crash-course in fleet building, specifically ship loadouts?

I'm thinking of starting up a new game, but the last time I played was all the way back before Cherryh and I gather a lot's changed since then.

I have all DLCs. I'm just looking for some pointers rather than thrash about and probably end up getting frustrated.

In short, missiles are good until point defense hits the field. Then use sentry posts and peer into your future opponents fleets and build you ships to counter them. They have a lot of shields and lasers weapons in their fleet? Build ships that focus more on kinetic weapons and armor. That is typically it for most of the game, with just the tip that shields are hit first, so you want to generally have longer range kinetic to energy so the kinetic can do the bonus damage first to the shields and then the energy hits the armor when they get into range.

Also, final tip with making titans, make a new class of titan for each additional one you can build. You can put on the same weapon loadout and everything, but change the aura. Having the same type of aura from the titan's don't stack. But having multiple different classes of titans each with their own different type of aura do stack. So you can both buff your fleets in different ways and debuff the enemy fleet in the same system from the multiple titans.

[factotum]

Having the same type of aura from the titan's don't stack. But having multiple different classes of titans each with their own different type of aura do stack. So you can both buff your fleets in different ways and debuff the enemy fleet in the same system from the multiple titans.

That absolutely never occurred to me, interesting idea! Only issue is that it only really works well if all your titan-led fleets are in the same place, and that happens less often than you'd think unless you happen to be assaulting an endgame crisis.

[Cristo Meyers]

Thanks guys.

Now let's see how long it takes me to wrap my head around all the other post-Cherryh changes.

[Eldan]

People hate gestalt consciousness in general, and vice versa. Whenever I encounter a hivemind, regardless if we are on generally good terms at the start, eventually while doing nothing on my part, their opinion will just shift negative. Machines also incur a negative opinion as well separately because they are not easy to judge what they are thinking. If you want people to like you you want to go for the emotion emulators perk. Also, rogue servitors cause people to generally like you. Authoritarian empires will automatically like you because you are willing servants.

My machine research empire are the benevolent overlords of the galaxy. Everyone wanted to ally with them, after a while. Well, except for those few empires we crushed in battle, then left alone to rebuild. We have science to do.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My machine research empire are the benevolent overlords of the galaxy. Everyone wanted to ally with them, after a while. Well, except for those few empires we crushed in battle, then left alone to rebuild. We have science to do.

And the Science gets done
and you make a neat gun
for the people who are... still alive

Sorry, had to.

My Synth Empire is much the same. They are mostly benevolent Type 2 Synths, all of the Type 3 Synths having been killed along with the Institute, and the Railroad developed enough infrastructure to mass produce Type 2 Synths and teach the Synths how to keep going before all of humanity ended up dying.

The Synths, the only remnant of the humans who spawned them, occupying the largely radiated and uninhabitable planet, proceed to take humanity's goals as their own, and go out into the galaxy at large.

What is this strange new world galaxy around me? What does it hold in store for a dreamer such as myself?

*cue the Ghost Signal*

NOOOOoooooooo!

[Silverraptor]

Benevolent machines? Psssshhhh. You guys are doing it all wrong. Determined exterminators with reduce new pop build cost and quicker pop build perks and civics. Then look for any pre-space flight planet and watch your number quickly multiply as you are giant mechanical locusts!

[GloatingSwine]

If you want to spread the good word about robot bits, Dedicated Assimilators are the way to go.

Double pop growth rate, specialisation super early on, Cyborg leaders are great, conquest super easy because assimilation is fast.

[Cristo Meyers]

Started up a new game over the long weekend and I'm starting to remember why I hate this game.

I mean, I love this game, but there's so much to keep track of and so much to do that my brain's constantly running on overdrive and it's hard to stop. It's like the distilled essence of One More Turn. I got started, played around a bit, looked up at the clock and went 'when the hell did it hit 3am?' Then I try to go to sleep and I'm still thinking 'how many slots does a destroyer get?'

Then, of course, I started that one over because I'd made some mistakes and didn't account for all the changes the 2.0 updates made.

Now I've got a solid resource base, a half-decent navy, and for once my immediate neighbors aren't my complete ideological opposites so I'm not constantly looking over my shoulder. The migratory flock to my north is downright pleasant. After a couple of games where my nearest neighbor was some kind of immediately hostile imperialist I was starting to wonder if maybe the problem was me.

[Kaptin Keen]

It's troublesome that I simply get too bored to win. Once I've beaten the endgame crisis, and kicked over the Awakened Empire, it's just a slog, taking enough systems to win. I find that unfortunate. I suppose I could declare war against everyone, and let them come to me. Despite the obscene size of my empire, it still has only four chokepoints I need to hold. I think.

Oh, I think I read somewhere that hive minds eventually get a tech option to join other races to the hive? Is that perhaps in an expansion I don't have? I only have Leviathans and Utopia. And um, Horizon Signal.

[GloatingSwine]

Oh, I think I read somewhere that hive minds eventually get a tech option to join other races to the hive? Is that perhaps in an expansion I don't have? I only have Leviathans and Utopia. And um, Horizon Signal.

You get it for following the Biological ascension path. You can remove or add Hive Minded as a trait once you have both the perks and can remove positive traits. (Though I think you actually do it by setting their species rights to assimilation rather than the gene modding interface).

[Kaptin Keen]

You get it for following the Biological ascension path. You can remove or add Hive Minded as a trait once you have both the perks and can remove positive traits. (Though I think you actually do it by setting their species rights to assimilation rather than the gene modding interface).

Ah. If I recall correctly, I never went for either of those, since I was already out-producing everyone anyways. I went for all the fleet related perks instead. Oh, and I can build megastructures too, something I never went for before because the game ends before I finish them. Which is still the case, I have two parts of a ring world, which I could finish in the same way I could go take the systems I need to win =)

Which incidentally is part of the Paradox Problem: Half a dozen paid DLC's in, the endgame still just .... fades out into nothing.

[Drasius]

It's troublesome that I simply get too bored to win. Once I've beaten the endgame crisis, and kicked over the Awakened Empire, it's just a slog, taking enough systems to win. I find that unfortunate. I suppose I could declare war against everyone, and let them come to me. Despite the obscene size of my empire, it still has only four chokepoints I need to hold. I think.

Do you really need a victory screen to decide that you've "won" though?

Once you're given the endgame crisis/AE(s) the business, 9 times out of 10, there's no-one left to oppose you in any realistic manner anyway. You've effectively won and it's time to start a new game with new challenges.

[Kaptin Keen]

Do you really need a victory screen to decide that you've "won" though?

Once you're given the endgame crisis/AE(s) the business, 9 times out of 10, there's no-one left to oppose you in any realistic manner anyway. You've effectively won and it's time to start a new game with new challenges.

No. I don't need a victory screen - in fact, I think I've seen it three times, and once even by accident.

It's not that, it's more a slight annoyance at the inelegance of it. It's somehow a question of what Paradox are really good at. They are really good at making money, and also really good at making gameplay. Stellaris is really good, I've played it a ton. And yet it's still not all I want from it, because Paradox aren't particularly good at making games. Gameplay, sure.

But in the end, Stellaris is rarely ... a struggle. It's almost always entirely binary: Either it's easy-peasy all the way, or at some point I get crushed without any chance what so ever. Even the Crisis: If I'm ready for them, it's a chore, not a challenge. I can think of only one game that was close - where I had to actually think to beat an enemy.