Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

[Venger]

Not sure what BoED has to say, just going by my reading of the SRD:

AFAIK, the template checks total HD, not purely racial. If there's a specific rule about this somewhere, it would change my understanding of how it all works...

It's irrevant anyway, since the srd incorporates the most recent errata. The template does indeed check total HD.

half-celestial also has a modular adjustment for cr depending on hd.

[ZamielVanWeber]

AFAIK, the template checks total HD, not purely racial. If there's a specific rule about this somewhere, it would change my understanding of how it all works...

I think in 3.0 references to HD meant monster HD specifically? It does not matter since 3.5, but still I know it can cause confusion.

[NontheistCleric]

I think in 3.0 references to HD meant monster HD specifically? It does not matter since 3.5, but still I know it can cause confusion.

It's possible that some people are just used to dealing with 'HD' in the context of monster HD, because they spend most of their D&D time as a player, where most of the references to HD would have it being called 'level' or 'class level' or 'character level'. So when something talks about HD, they don't immediately associate the term with class levels.

[jdizzlean]

that table helped, thanks, i think the hardest part is just figuring out your base CR and from there aside from a random hop up in the middle, it's pretty straight forward.


not as scary as i first imagined it to be :)

[Blue Jay]

It's possible that some people are just used to dealing with 'HD' in the context of monster HD, because they spend most of their D&D time as a player, where most of the references to HD would have it being called 'level' or 'class level' or 'character level'. So when something talks about HD, they don't immediately associate the term with class levels.

Yeah, I think this was the case for me, too. I just looked through a few templates again, and noticed that half the places where I thought the wording was "character level" actually say "hit dice"; so it seems I was mentally equating "hit dice" with "racial hit dice." At any rate, I like the idea of letting the abilities scale with total HD instead of just racial HD, but I always just assumed I had to house-rule it to make it work that way.

[GrayDeath]

Just an update: I will likely be able to start judging around wednesday.

Sinc enoone else has posted any judgements yet, it might not be too important, but I thought I`d better inform you all. :)

[Thurbane]

Just an update: I will likely be able to start judging around wednesday.

Sinc enoone else has posted any judgements yet, it might not be too important, but I thought I`d better inform you all. :)

All good, and thanks for the update.

Speaking for myself, the contestants always appreciate any updates regarding judging...

[GrayDeath]

Then a second update: going to visit family starting Friday.

Should still find time to finish judging some time ext week at the latest, sadly some entries already make my head hurt (in a mostly good way ;))...

[GrayDeath]

Addendum: I would ike to ask fr n extension until the end of the month

Unexpectantly my parents computer is malfunctioning and doing all the judging (including getting info,a s I dont have any hard copies with me) on a phone is ... not recommendable.

I hop you understand.

[jdizzlean]

if you'd like, i can make an attempt at judging.

I have criteria for IC written up, but i can adapt it to VC, post, and start reviewing in depth

[jdizzlean]

How I intend to Judge:
First off, to repeat the original instructions: Please don’t assume I know the source of where you are getting your information. Kindly cite all sources used. If a basic google search doesn’t give me the answer as to the source you are pulling from, or if there are multiple options, I’m likely to pick the first one if it’s something I’m unfamiliar with, and then judge based off that. (Regardless of whether that was your intention or not, if you aren’t specific, well that’s your fault!)
In general, is it fun to read your build, and more importantly, would it be fun to fight?

Power/Competence

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Are you to tough at each CR platform? Are you effective early and late in the build?
Can you do more than 1 thing well?
Does your build function in more than 1 environment, under a mix of situations, or only on clear sunny days?
Do you rely on tricks and creative interpretations of the rules to be effective? Whatever it is, tell me, or I have to base it off how I would play it, which all things considered, probably isn’t how you would.
How well can you do what you do?

Originality

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Does your build make me sit up and go “oh my” /George Takei? Do you take opportunities to step out from the masses and make your build different?
Did you take the road less traveled?
Are you using your classes in different ways to augment the build as a whole?
Did you do something I wouldn’t have thought of to try?
I’m a fan of optimization, but you have to self-regulate. Taking VoP for example is considered to generally be in poor taste if the entirety of the rest of your build isn’t thematically on the same premise. I will penalize for excessive cheesiness.

Elegance

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Are you able to do your build w/o an excess of unnecessary classes or dips? Does your build accomplish what it states it’s purpose is? Does it rely on 1-2 key features or tricks, or does it function at every step along the path?
Do all the things you have listed make sense? Or are they there to fill out the pre-reqs and then never used again? Is your character info relevant, or do you have 4 pages of scrawling for the sake of taking up space?
If I cut away all the fluff and rhetoric, will I still be amazed? Does the fluff make sense and work together?
I won’t necessarily penalize for the number of sources used, but if I have to have 5 books open to look up the legality and functionality of any ability or level, I’m likely to give a headache rating.
If you have to take feat and skill point taxes, do you make them work for you in the build, or do they just take up space so you can get to the SI?
Does your overall build flow from CR 1 to 20, or do you all of a sudden gain massive insight on until now unspent/unknown abilities when they all of a sudden become available to you? i.e. do you go from no ranks in a skill to maxed out in it at a later level?
You should be “BUILDING” a character from the beginning, not just when it becomes convenient and cheap to do so at a later time.

Memorable Villainy

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Do you present a tried and true path and only change the means of it’s presentation? Will I think to myself that you’re just another skin on something that’s been done before? Will I still be talking about you next game, and the one after? Were you such a hard fight that the party had to seek help to overcome? Are you a complete surprise when you reveal yourself?

[Inevitability]

Two weeks extension seems somewhat long to me, especially as there's already been a bit of a delay. How do people feel about it?

Also, you're more than welcome to judge too, jdizzlean!

[daremetoidareyo]

Two weeks extension seems somewhat long to me, especially as there's already been a bit of a delay. How do people feel about it?

Also, you're more than welcome to judge too, jdizzlean!

I'd rather two judges than 1 even if it means waiting until oct 31st

[Baby Gary]

I'd rather two judges than 1 even if it means waiting until oct 31st

same, I would judge but I don't know enough to do it or have the spare time necessary to thoroughly go through ever entry.

[Thurbane]

I'd rather two judges than 1 even if it means waiting until oct 31st

same, I would judge but I don't know enough to do it or have the spare time necessary to thoroughly go through ever entry.

Same here.

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Speaking of Oct 31st, any ideas for a Halloween/Samhain themed round?

[daremetoidareyo]

Speaking of Oct 31st, any ideas for a Halloween/Samhain themed round?

Headless???

[alpine]

Headless would be an excellent followup to multiheaded...

[ben-zayb]

Speaking of Oct 31st, any ideas for a Halloween/Samhain themed round?

Something to do with souls? Control 'em, sell 'em, be 'em, channel 'em, etc.

[Baby Gary]

Something to do with souls? Control 'em, sell 'em, be 'em, channel 'em, etc.

I like that, I might even have to try to do something, like make a entry

[daremetoidareyo]

I like that, I might even have to try to do something, like make a entry

The Soulripper!!!

[remetagross]

Soul-themed villain seems neat!

Also, we still have the duo of villains, and I'd like to reiterate on the idea of a politician/social villain.

[jdizzlean]

I'm about 1/2 way done, barring the kiddo being a pain the next few days while i'm off, i should be done by saturday.

[jdizzlean]

Sleep, who needs it

-or-

You've waited long enough for a judging. i'm sure there'll be disputes, but that might have to wait until Sunday to get addressed, i have a busy weekend.


Taman and Thoron - Total Score: Disqualified, but 9.25

Originality

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Dvati is one of the two things that I would’ve immediately thought of for this challenge. I don’t know what benefit Ruathar is giving to the build beyond granting you a longer life, as the other class features seem a distant second to just gaining further levels in Conjurer. Eldritch Knight likewise seems an odd choice, you are only gaining a feat at the cost of a lost caster level, and better BAB progression. Abjurant Champion is a strong finishing class that does boost the rest of the build, but it comes online quite late. Nothing particularly awesome, or horrible in the design.
Score 3

Power

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Aside from the elegance penalties below, this would be a formidable opponent in the early game. I don’t agree that Multivoice is that beneficial beyond allowing you to cast a spell with one twin, and attack with something other than a spell w/ the other twin. I think there are a lot of relatively dead levels where all you are doing is advancing casting and BAB and gaining absolutely nothing else.
Score 3.25

Elegance

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Monster of Legend is a template that can only be applied to animal, beast, magical beast, or monstrous humanoids. Nowhere in the entry for Dvati does it state they are anything other than humanoid. Meaning the entire build is invalid, especially since the template is used to qualify for Ruathar, Eldritch Knight and Abjurant Champion. The Conjurer Variant gives up it’s familiar, and Immediate Magic makes you trade the familiar for it, you can’t trade something you don’t have. In your backstory, you list summoning a fiendish ape and setting it upon the elves. Then “saving” them from it, the special requirement in the Ruathar class entry states that in addition to the entry requirements (you used the 3rd lvl casting one) you must ALSO have performed a great service such as the defeat of a CR10 monster. Fiendish Ape is only a CR3 monster.
Score 0

Villainy

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Rules issues aside, I think a mid-level party would have a tough time defeating this opponent. But I think a party in the late game would have a much easier time do to the drop off of power in the overall build. Knowledge devotion seems to have been taken for the sole purpose of increasing your melee damage against foes, or perhaps to justify spending all those skill points on knowledges in the first place. The pair would be a touch vulnerable until Multivoice comes online letting them take separate actions, otherwise only one of them can cast, and the other can’t do anything at all until the spell goes off.
Score 3.25

Boney Bonnie - Total Score: 16

Originality

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A hydra is the other thing I would’ve immediately gone to for this challenge. A skeletal Pyro-Hyrdra that can 12-36x full attack everything in sight, even unprovoked due to the reasoning behind summon swarm would be a thing to see. As a DM, I would probably force you to roll something to not get dizzy after the first whirlwind headspinning AoO induced maelstrom. I’m not sure what, but something.
Score 4.5

Power

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Warhulk grants +20 to your STR over the 10 level class as well as a ton of abilities that make attacking you in melee a really bad idea. The drawback being that your BAB is abysmal, however the +20 brings your STR to 47, which means your BAB isn’t even remotely bad at all considering that your melee full attack is now BAB 6 +18 for 24 for EACH HEAD on pretty much every single attack, cleave, great cleave, AoO. All the DR and Fast Healing, immunities pretty much mean something with an acid attack is the only thing that can “kill” off your heads. However, if they can get past your heads and actually just do damage to the body, you can be killed. Your weakness is that you occupy a space, and have no ability to get out of it short of running away. Ranged casters can plink at you at will without worrying about being hit back by anything. A flying PC is immune to anything you can do short of a breath weapon if they get to close. The lair’s design, if you choose to hide away somewhere, would be the real limiting factor in the fight.
Score 4

Elegance

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Skeletons lack internal organs and flesh, so I don’t know how you’d argue that a skeletal Hydra would be able to regrow heads (but I’d like to hear it). (-.5)
I see that you are using the template to improve the base creature massively without taking any penalty at all, in fact gaining 7 CR worth of space in the process (a 12 headed pryohydra has a base cr of 13!) Cheesy. (-1)
Skeletons lose all feats from the base creature (so everything you have listed up to 12HD), and only gain Improved Initiative. You are giving yourself both the racial feats by HD, as well as the template. (-1)
Score 2.5

Villainy

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This is very much an epic epic level beastie. I would do everything possible to defeat you from range, or destroy the environment around you. Engaging you in melee would pretty much be suicide. A high OP cleric that has done nothing but focus on Turn Undead might have a chance at destroying you outright, but if he failed, he’d die.
I would’ve liked to watch this fight, from way, way, way back.
Score 5

Masa/Mune – Total Score: 10

Originality

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I like the thought process behind this build, but the stated requirement for this challenge is two or more heads. When Masamune is joined, he only has one head, irregardless of how many brains are twirling around in there. Yes they can split apart, but you have this built to ensure that they can go all day joined together. (-1)
Score 2

Power

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Obviously with 2 complete characters, you have double the power at every step along the way. Masamune is a massive beatstick that when boiled down to the simplicities is a combined fighter/rogue with psionics thrown in. I feel the Elegance penalty for 2 distinct 20 CR creatures isn’t enough in this case. If this build were presented as is, but stopped masa and munes progression both at lvl 10, and then alternated their build ranks into the symbiotic creature to form the cr20 version it would be quite weak indeed. However I’m only supposed to penalize for something once..
Score 3

Elegance

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The Symbiotic template lists in the CR rating as a mixed pair, the host AND the guest. Meaning that combined they have to equal 20CR for this comp, not each being 20CR. Score 1


(Plus, you do list quite a few sources in your build table, but not everything, a secondary table listing all the sources would be nice in the future. I couldn’t even find some things due to broken links in your build, so it’s hard to even judge this on any complete scale.)

Villainy

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Either of them separately would be a challenge along the entire course of their builds. Masamune when joined together would be almost undefeatable due to the rules issues related to above. 2 20CR creatures don’t equal CR40, but they are a lot more than CR20. Non-epic PC’s would have an extremely tough time fighting you and would have to find some way to break the symbiotic attachment to have a chance.
Score 4

Aperantos – Total Score: 12

Originality

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While your entry wouldn’t have been my first thought, it’s also a high enough CR in the first place that there isn’t all that much you can do with it. The devotion to Sertrous gives you some flexibility in enhancing the things you are stuck with, but that also means you don’t have a whole lot of room to maneuver afterwards either. You’re unfortunately stuck w/ only an end-game encounter as there’s no way a party could meet you before then. Neither +’s or –‘s for the above.
Score 3

Power

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A snake demi-god, that can become all manner of differently sized snakes, including a snake swarm. (I’m tired of these m’f’ing snakes, on this m’f’ing plane ((of existence!)) I would immediately attempt to combine snake swarm and Dissoliving Touch, making every snake in the swarm exude 7d6 points of acid damage, and therefore melt the face off of anything that looked funny at me. (+.25)
The devotion to Sertrous feats add great flexibility to your build. I particularly like Insane Defiance paired with pretty much instant healing of the ability damange, which would allow you to divert mind-affecting spells/sla’s to another, including since you’re an evil bastard, any of the 800 other snakelings around you just for fun. (+.5)
He is a complete dungeon onto himself, but that is due largely to how the base creature is already built. (+0)
Score 3.75

Elegance

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Binder is an interesting and good choice thematically for a snake godling bound to an elder evil. However, you don’t state which vestige you would bind which could make a difference in how the build works together, or works in or out of combat. I did find it after book diving and reading half the entry, but you should state it outright. While not specifically an elegance penalty at this point, it’ll remain as an un-typed deduction. (-.25)
Dark Speech is likewise appropriate, but you never state how you’ll use it to help your build out, despite some obvious ways that it could. (-.25)
Overall, your build accomplishes what I believe it’s purpose to be, but aside from feats, it’s almost a copy of the entry in the book for a yuan-ti anathema (-0)
Binder is a nice finish, allowing you to soak your ability hits almost instantaneously, but it’s not online until CR 19, even if that is only the 2nd “lvl” of your build. If someone were to find the beastie at it’s entry point and throw enough things at it, it would probably be a much “easier” fight then the 20th lvl incarnation of it.(+.25)
Score 2.75

Villainy

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Asperantos would be a difficult fight if he was prepared for the encounter. With sufficient fore-knowledge of what they faced, I think a party could reasonably prepare for the fight to not suck as much as it otherwise would if they were ambushed by him, or stumbled upon him somehow. If I were fighting him and knew a fraction of his abilities, I would likely focus on destroying the environment he’s in, not in taking him on face to face. The key would be in not allowing the PC’s a chance to rest before being forced to enter the encounter. The vast swarm (pun intended) of minions beneath you could be sent out endlessly, thus negating the party from resting the generally requisite 8 hrs to replenish. As stated above, if they could somehow reach him at his first lvl, the fight would be easier, but still suck. (+.5)
Score 3.5

Chuck and Rufus - Total score 13.75
Originality

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I like the combination of things you have going on here. I wouldn’t want to fight it, but I like it. There are a lot of elegance penalties, and as such are deducted below. I think throwing your head at someone is a pretty neat interpretation of the things you have going on in this build. Maybe not a legal one, but I like to break the rules too . I think if you could throw your head, and then have it strike a target, and then it could activate the breath weapon granted from Amon, assuming that is one of the 2 traits you’re using, that it could be pretty unnerving to whomever you’re fighting. Duskblade fits pretty good w/ the 2 heads constantly at one another’s throats (haha) as a means of building 2 separate classes into one build. I think you should designate which head is capable of doing which side however, so that when you throw say the left head, you know that you can’t cast magic until it’s reattached, but that’s just gameplay there.
Score 4

Power

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An invisible at will shadow blending, dimension hopping, head throwing, fire breathing giant troll. Lightning Ricochet basically lets you throw your head (or a legal item) at 3 different enemies per round. Assuming your head was a legal thing to throw, I would imagine as it is still a part of your body, and still alive, that it would retain its invisibility until it had struck whatever you were throwing it at. So being hit by an invisible head, possibly more than once, could be a bit unnerving, maybe you could wrangle a will save out of that.
Score 3.5

Elegance

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I don’t see the detach component of Multi-Headed in the Template info in SS. I did find it later listed in the CR ratings as a feat, Take care to list things in the proper place (it’s not on the build table). However it states you can remove a portion of your body that can make a melee attack other than a bite. Which means you can’t detach and throw your head. You do have a creative way of making the ranged attack a melee attack, but that doesn’t mean that your head is capable of making a melee attack, it just means that when you throw your head, you treat it as a melee attack for rolling purposes as opposed to a ranged one. Martial Throw, at 2nd level of Bloodstorm Blade allows a thrown weapon to initiate a strike which technically might qualify the head as a viable thing to detach, but you don’t get this ability until CR 14, which is more then halfway through your build progression, thus negating a large portion of the build to this point. Further, Ram Attack would technically count as a melee weapon due to it being a natural weapon, but you would have no way of delivering it, so I’m not sure if it would qualify still. (-1.5)
Because you are using Bind Vestige as a feat, you only gain a binder level of 1 for your binding of Amon. The full check roll would be 1d20 +1 binder level -1 CHA. Which means the majority of the time more than likely you will be under Amon’s influence even though you’ll be able to keep the benefit of the binding. The negatives aren’t huge, but they’re still negatives. (-.25)
You have Skilled City Dweller as an ACF to access Tumble instead of Ride. None of your fluff has you living in an urban environment, or being from one. I don’t know how you’d get this as an ACF past any DM that was paying attention. (-.5)
Score 2.75

Villainy

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You would definitely be a hard fight. I do think the difficulty would scale as you go along, I think you’d peak around CR12-15, so before and after that might be easier than in that range. First they have to see you, then they have to try and hit you, then they have to worry about you throwing your invisible head at them, then they have to worry about that head shooting flames at them (possibly), then they have to worry about that head discharging a channeled spell after all that resolves, and then they have to do that all over again. EVERY ROUND.
Score 3.5

The Fleichshriver Horror – Total Score: 17.5
Originality

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Half fiend by itself applied to anything hugely ginormous would be scary enough. I don’t see the point in having 10 heads, as the Phaerlin Giant doesn’t do anything special other then be a big ugly thing. Any DM that didn’t outright BAN Blasphemy from the table is inviting a TPK as there is no save against it. Pouncebarian has been done to death, but it’s almost an afterthought here as opposed to the reason for the build. Swordsage levels give the meat of the build beyond the SLA’s from Half-fiend.
Score 4.5

Power

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The Eternal hero line grants you essentially a full extra hit points pool every day, as well as complete resurrection everyday. You can never be killed unless the PC’s find a way to utterly destroy every single atom of you. Disintegrate won’t work. Anyone that heard even a fraction of your capabilities and still decided to fight you, would not live very long at all.
Score 5

Elegance

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I don’t see where you’re getting 28HD at CR 11 (base) let alone CL 28. Phaerlin Giant only has 8HD, multi-headed doesn’t add HD, and neither does Half-fiend. (-2)
Score 3

Villainy

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No. Just no.
Score: 5

The Unkindness of Hextor – Total Score: 14.75
Originality

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A Hivemind swarm, of ravens, who are clerics, and sorcerers, and serve a god, and who will eventually “
run” a town/area. Yea. I feel like some kind of quote associated to “no one expects the Spanish Inquisition!@” would be appropriate here.

Hivemind swarms aren’t a new thing, and it’s essentially a free template with a lot of +’s, and not very many minus’s, however it’s quite cheesy and ripe for abuse.
Score 4

Power

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You’re hard to hit due to the nature of a swarm, which means it’s hard to break your concentration when casting. If you chose to use Ravens squawking as your “language” for casting the somatic components of spells, no one would take that as anything special, until you threw a fireball at them all of a sudden. Otherwise you’re a basic divine/arcane caster without any tangible melee ability beyond the abuse of Blindness, for which the DC falls off as you go up in CR.
Score 4

Elegance

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You do lose a little from the Cleric casting as you can’t hold up a holy symbol as a swarm, which negates the extra turning feat you take at CR 19. (-.25)
Monster of Legend grants a breath weapon OR frightful presence, not both. (-.5)
Higher level spells will be hard, if not impossible, to cast due to not being able to carry the spell components around with you, thus negating a large swath of your spell list. (-1)
Score 3.25

Villainy

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Once the PC’s find out about you, it’s open hunting season on every Raven in sight. However by attacking the church in some fashion they could simply draw you out. As a hivemind swarm, you have to stay together in the same 10 ft space, and 1000 Ravens packed that tightly together would be quite hard to miss. If the PC’s could separate the swarm somehow, or contain it, they’d have a large advantage to beating you. Aside from your flight speed and spells, you have no defense against area spells that can target you, and with limited hit points and no SR/DR/healing ability, the right party could walk over you. However, you’d have the element of surprise, because Ravens. After the initial encounter, I suspect the next one wouldn’t go so well.
Score 3.5

[Inevitability]

Disputes, batch #1!

Thanks for the judging.

Wow. Just wow. I was 100% sure Dvati were monstrous humanoids. Checking Dragon Compendium, you are right; I can't see any such mention. Perhaps I was conflating them with Tibbit or Lupin. I have to wear that on the chin.

However, I must protest some of your other judgements:

Yes, Immediate Magic replaces Familiar. However, the Enhanced Summoning variant loses bonus feats (in this case, Scribe Scroll): there is no conflict or duplication of what is given up for the ACFs/variants. You may be confusing the Enhanced Summoning with the Rapid Summoning variant (both in UA), the latter of which does give up it's familiar.

In regards to the fiendish dire ape and saving the elves: the reqs for Ruathar say the following:

In addition to meeting one of the three requirements given above, you must have performed a great service to an elf community, such as participating in the defeat of a monster of at least CR 10, recovering a valuable elven magic item, or risking death in order to save an elf’s life.

Emphasis mine. It doesn't say that you must fulfill all criteria; risking your life is, in and of itself, enough, even if no CR10 creature or valuable eleven magic item was involved. In the eyes of the elves that the twins saved, they were risking their lives to save them. The fiendish ape could easily have been pre-ordered to attack it's summoners if threatened, so in effect, they were risking their lives (although it was highly unlikely the ape could have killed them, it wasn't entirely impossible).

In regards to Ruathar and Eldritch Knight levels: they were combines with Abjurant Champion to achieve BAB +16 by CR 20. There may have been another means to achieve this, but this was my solution. Granted, I could have thrown the quest for BAB +16 by CR 20 out the window, and focused on casting levels alone. Still, I feel hitting BAB +16 and CL 17 in the build was true to the goal I was looking to achieve.

Multivoice Allows both twins to unload spells in the same round. I feel the Power score doesn't really take this into account.

Anyhow, my disputes are largely academic, due to my colossal blunder in assuming Dvati to be eligible for Monster of Legend.

Hey jdizzlean, thank you for judging.

Only one minor nitpick: multiheaded definitely does add HD; 2 per extra head to be exact. It's part of what makes it the crazybroken 3.0 template that it is. Just be thankful I let some sanity prevail and not make it lernaean as well. :P

Hit Dice: Each additional head adds 2 HD to the base creature’s total.

8HD (giant outsider) + 20HD (template), before class levels.

[jdizzlean]

T&T

Ok on the Ruathar entry, I stopped reading at CR10. my bad. My interpretation of it is not that the beastie was a different CR, it was that a CR10 encounter is inherently more dangerous than a CR3 one, and the lack of danger was what failed to qualify. However, in the backstory you only say you saved the elves, not that you risked your life to do so. A little more attention to the details of the story would have cleared this up.

I can't recall where I was looking at Conjurer, I think I couldn't originally find it in UA, so I went back to the entry listed on ddtools, and then misunderstood that the variants are all listed there. You are correct.

However due to the illegality of Monster of Legend, the score must stand.

On Multivoice:

From the Benefit text, SS

As a full-round action, you can cast one additional spell (or use a spell-like ability in combination with
a spell or another spell-like ability) each round. Each spell used in this way must have a casting time of 1 action; a spell-like ability must also take no more than a standard action to use. Using this feat provokes an attack of opportunity. If your concentration is interrupted during this simultaneous casting or spell-like ability use, whether by taking damage or by some other means, a Concentration
check is required for each spell or spell-like ability. Failing either Concentration check negates both spells or spelllike abilities.

You can also use one head to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability while another head activates a head-based special attack, such as a breath weapon or an eye ray

From the entry for Dvati, DC

When a dvati casts a spell, both members of the pair must focus and concentrate on it. Both twins must simultaneously take the actions required to cast a spell, although only one must supply material components. One twin cannot cast a spell while the other attacks, for example. A lone Dvati can cast spells if his twin takes no actions while he casts.

The feat doesn't override the racial, other then to allow the twin not casting to be able to act also. You still can't cast with both of them, all multivoice does is allow your twins to cast AND attack now, or to have 1 twin cast twice while the other still must stand there and do nothing.

The score stands.


For the Horrrrrrrrrror

you are correct, i missed that on review, but HD doesn't equal CL's. I'll remove 1/2 the penalty.

Score adjusted to 4

[Venger]

chairman, your inbox appears to be full.

[Inevitability]

Thank you for the judging update, jdizzlean. I know it may seem like pointless pedantry at this point, and trust me, I am already very happy with your score, but in the case of half-fiend, HD does equal CL.

Spell-Like Abilities
A half-fiend with an Intelligence or Wisdom score of 8 or higher has spell-like abilities depending on its Hit Dice, as indicated on the table. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals the creature’s HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.

chairman, your inbox appears to be full.

Fixed that.

[jdizzlean]

I'll remove the penalty on cl's and reassign it to massive queso instead then :)

score still 4

[Inevitability]

In which further disputes are revealed.

Thank you for stepping up to judge so late in the game.

Elegance - You do lose a little from the Cleric casting as you can’t hold up a holy symbol as a swarm, which negates the extra turning feat you take at CR 19. (-.25)
Monster of Legend grants a breath weapon OR frightful presence, not both. (-.5)
Higher level spells will be hard, if not impossible, to cast due to not being able to carry the spell components around with you, thus negating a large swath of your spell list. (-1)

Extra Turning - I took the feat to have extra uses of Divine Metamagic, not for actually turning undead.
Monster of Legend - Wow, missed that, In fact I have neither, because I have spellcasting.
Spell Components - As a Hivemind I get the eschew materials for free, and I think I could carry any other required materials in my 1000 pairs of talons.

Villiany - Aside from flight speed and spells, you have no defense against area spells that can target you

What better defenses against spells are there than cleric and sorcerer spells of my own?

With nothing but respect,

And another:

Thank you for taking the time to judge, generous souls like you keep this competition running.

That being said, I want to clarify several things about my entry. Let's go in order of importance.

Several times you mention Amon's breath weapon. As shown on the chart on page 74 of ToM, the bind vestige and practiced binder feats grant darkvision and a ram attack, which is why I discussed the ram and not the breath weapon in my entry.

As for "designating which head does which side" the rules do not specify that the heads take different classes. A multiheaded creature still functions as one creature, so the heads have access to all class features, including casting, together. It's a moot point anyway, since Detach is brought in at CR 15, at which point Chuck and Rufus have access to Thunderous Throw, meaning the head will return at the beginning of the round in time to reattach and throw it again. At CR 16 and on, Lightning Ricochet means the head returns immediately, so even if loss of a head did alter spellcasting, it doesn't change anything.

Skilled City Dweller is an urban themed ACF, but it doesn't mention any prerequisites of being from an urban environment, Not sure why I'd have to "get it past" the DM since this is a monster for DM use.

You are correct in that the high binding DC means failure of the binding check is the norm, so Chuck and Rufus will be operating under Amon's influence. However, the penalty only activates if they disobey the influence. Amon demands that they attempt a save against any beneficial spell cast by those devoted to deities of sun, fire, or law. Chuck and Rufus are not devoted to such a deity and don't have any allies in their entry. There's no way this penalty would come up with any frequency.

Most importantly, let's talk about Detach. Detach is a feat, not an aspect of Multiheaded, which I never implied. Detach is listed in its proper place: the cell for feats at level 15, right next to Spectral Skirmisher.
You asked several questions about the intricacies of using Detach and my build's central premise which are detailed in the CR 15 subheader, but let's go over them.

“But you have to use it on a body part that delivers something other than a bite!” I hear you say. That’s what binding Amon is for, granting at least 1 ram attack so that the head is a viable target.

I included this line because I expected the reader to think it, but it clearly didn't explain things properly. Practiced Binder grants Amon's ram attack that deals 1d6 points of damage. The ram attack uses curling ram's horns that grow on the head, so the head can deliver a melee natural attack other than a bite. You say that I have "no way of delivering" the ram attack, but that's exactly what practiced binder does, so you'll need to explain that.
Thunderous Throw's purpose in the build is to channel spells into the head, not qualifying for Detach, which is already done. It activates at CR 14, which is a level before detach comes on line. Yes, the key aspect I wanted to showcase is online at CR 15, which is why all this is in the subheader for CR 15. This doesn't "negate the build until this point" because the aspects of the build function on their own. Chuck and Rufus can still make ram attacks, cast spells, and throw things before CR 15; this is just the point where everything unites.

[jdizzlean]

Hextor


Turning: Penalty removed +.25

Spell Components: Eschew Materials only grants things costing less than 1GP free, higher level spells components cost much more then that, or are things that just can't be carried by a tiny birds talons. how do you propose to carry pinches of dried dust, very fine silver wire, iron filings, diamond dust, gems worth X gold, etc. Let alone decide what you need to carry w/ you on any given day? You can't just fly back to the church and have all the cultists tie tiny sacks onto the next bird in lines feet in any sort of quantity that would still allow them to fly. Penalty stands.

Villainy: Even though that may be the case, it doesn't warrant enough merit to increase the score due to the limitations otherwise stated previously. Penalty stands.

new score overall: 15.00

Chuck and Rufus

I mentioned breath weapon as an option, not as a component of the build as I probably would've gone that route due to the fact you can choose which option the binding grants you. It didn't factor into my scoring in any way.

Likewise, determining which head does what was an observation and wasn't part of score calculation, despite you naming one as a learning magic, and one learning bladed combat...

Skilled City Dweller: I feel like there shouldn't be an explanation here, it's an URBAN ACF for characters that are in an URBAN environment as opposed to the in general out in the wilds environment that all characters are inherently based on. It'd be like taking a sea-based feat to apply to your character that has never seen a boat. The DM still has to follow the same rules he/she want the PC's to follow. There are plenty of other ways to gain access to a skill you don't have. Penalty stands.

Binding Influence, as I stated, the penalty isn't big (meaning in general or in frequency) but a penalty is a penalty regardless. Penalty stands

Detach: I stand corrected, it is in fact part of the build table. +.5
My statement: "I don’t see the detach component of Multi-Headed in the Template info in SS." was due to how you organized your Sources tab.

However, clearly you knew going into this that it would come up as an issue, you did devote large swaths of text to defending it in the first place. If you look at the examples in the text of the feat, it states:

As an attack action, you can detach a portion of your body that can make a melee attack other than a bite (such as a paw, tail, or tentacle) and use it as a thrown weapon (range increment 20 feet).

You clearly stated your position on this, I clearly answered mine in the interpretation. If you were to look at a sword on the ground, it's a melee weapon, but that doesn't mean it can deliver a melee attack on it's own. A natural weapon/attack is the same thing. On the head, it may count as another weapon, but once you throw that head, how is that head supposed to deliver a strike once it's on the ground? You clearly put some thought into your argument, but since there is no RAW on head throwing as a weapon you must move to RAI, and I've given you my thoughts on the issue, the rest of the penalty stands. Score adjusted to (-1)

and finally, a whole lot of thought goes into being able to throw your head as a weapon, but it isn't implemented earlier in the build. You take the binding vestiges during creation, but then wait 7 levels to use the ability to throw your head in the first place (when it's convenient to do so). Part of my judging criteria is that you are building a character, and waiting until it's less of a penalty all around to use a key item of your build is the reason you've been penalized so. Does the "build" function along the way? Yes. But you can't do a key tenet of it that you put forward until level 15, when you chose to do so because the negatives of doing so were more in your favor than doing so beforehand.

Adjusted Total Score: 14.25