Reverse WW: The reawakening

[Wizibirb]

Like the old man knew any better EVERYONE knew the villager was back and there was only one thing to do HUNT. The amount of Wolves on the prowl was intense, and of course with that much tension in the air it was only a matter of time. It started with an accidental bump no one remembers who bumped who but the fight started and more and more people Joined in the chaos as all thought it might be the villager or perhaps it was just a chance to kill. Tufts of fur and flesh were scattered across the alley ways people limped out of the fight barely alive others were not so lucky eventually the bloodshed ended when a rooster cawed in the morning. When everyone entered the courtyard in the morning two bodies still remained. Never to move again, Poor Ramsus whose lust for a kill had left them unguarded when someone had cleaved open there windpipe from behind. Then there was Extrail who had almost killed there target but instead had found them self disemboweled..... However there was no time to morn the villager was out there

Ramsus was found dead they were a wolf
Extrail was found dead they were a wolf

Day 2 Begin!

[Ronnoc]

Nooo! Extrail's entrails have become his extrails! What cruel fate, what bitter irony!
Now that the morning of mourning is out of the way I think I shall vote for kgato503 after all this villager would know that we would know that a no lynch result favors the wolves, and what better way to conceal being a villager than to employ a standard wolf strategem?

[rakkoon]

Wait, somebody wanted the same guy dead as I did? Or did he protect himself...
Anyway, kgato503 is good enough for me

[Logic]

It looks like we've got someone with an itchy trigger finger. Anyone want to claim the second kill?

[Extrail]

Is it alright if i ask a rules clarification? why is it that my action didn't get completed?

[Wizibirb]

Is it alright if i ask a rules clarification? why is it that my action didn't get completed?

So to clarify if your kill you sent in did not get completed it is because either the person was defending or a second person attacked them I promise I took everything into account.

[BasketOfPuppies]

DeathSlayer7 is the one who tied the vote yesterday iirc

[Aventine]

Wait, somebody wanted the same guy dead as I did? Or did he protect himself...

I know the feeling...

It looks like we've got someone with an itchy trigger finger. Anyone want to claim the second kill?

My kill failed, so it wasn't me. (Though I do wonder if it was interference or defense that stopped my kill)

DeathSlayer7 is the one who tied the vote yesterday iirc

No, it was already tied, but Deathslayer7 made it a three-way tie rather than break it.

[Logic]

I know the feeling...



My kill failed, so it wasn't me. (Though I do wonder if it was interference or defense that stopped my kill)



No, it was already tied, but Deathslayer7 made it a three-way tie rather than break it.

I elected to not use my kill, as I was not sure about anyone being the villager.

In a normal game, a 3-way tie would be great, because there are few places for wolves to hide.

But since day 1 we had a lone villager, a 3-way tie doesn't give us much data to go off of. In fact, ties aren't super helpful at all, since we have 1 (maybe 2 now) villager(s).

[Deathslayer7]

Basketofpuppies for bad logic. Aventine is more correct. But I saw no reason to have a lynch on the first day when it is literally random and the chance of netting the villager are slim.

[BasketOfPuppies]

Basketofpuppies for bad logic. Aventine is more correct. But I saw no reason to have a lynch on the first day when it is literally random and the chance of netting the villager are slim.

Lynches are the best way to get information. Electing not to lynch someone on any day serves only to withhold information from the wolves, therefore helping the villager(s).

[Eternis]

Woof woof snorf woof snorf sad, guilty snorf Extrail.
Snorf woof snorf bork Deathslayer7.

[Chambers]

Placeholder vote for Deathslayer7, may be convinced otherwise.

[kgato503]

To those who voted for me, I would like to say the following: Hey! Stop it!

And Day One was not a complete waste, as voting history is valid information. Also, Day One is the time when we are statistically most likely to accidentally kill a wolf, and it stinks when you die the first day out of the gate. Remember, villagers just need to out number the wolves to win, so every wolf death is helping the villagers.

I am not convinced that Deathslayer7 is our best option for killing at this point. However BasketOfPuppies is being rather blood thirsty right now...And was "yesterday" as well.

Question for both of you: What was your night action? If you targeted someone, who was it? If neither of you wish to answer, I understand.

And yes, I know I haven't put anything in red yet. I am still trying to make up my mind.

[Logic]

To those who voted for me, I would like to say the following: Hey! Stop it!

And Day One was not a complete waste, as voting history is valid information. Also, Day One is the time when we are statistically most likely to accidentally kill a wolf, and it stinks when you die the first day out of the gate. Remember, villagers just need to out number the wolves to win, so every wolf death is helping the villagers.

I am not convinced that Deathslayer7 is our best option for killing at this point. However BasketOfPuppies is being rather blood thirsty right now...And was "yesterday" as well.

Question for both of you: What was your night action? If you targeted someone, who was it? If neither of you wish to answer, I understand.

And yes, I know I haven't put anything in red yet. I am still trying to make up my mind.

We had one opponent yesterday. The voting history is not going to be super helpful until a phase or two later, once we lynch someone that isn't a wolf.

This particular setup means that our normal observations don't mean as much.

Kgato503

[Aventine]

But since day 1 we had a lone villager, a 3-way tie doesn't give us much data to go off of. In fact, ties aren't super helpful at all, since we have 1 (maybe 2 now) villager(s).

It tells us that somebody could have broken the tie, but instead made a meaningless vote. Lynch is town's weapon, obstructing or preventing the lynch is generally anti-town.


And on another topic, since I'm voting for Deathslayer who now has a decent wagon I should probably try to get some information. Deathslayer: what was your action last night? Everybody else: did anybody try to kill Deathslayer?

[Deathslayer7]

I defended myself last night.

edit:

Lynches are the best way to get information. Electing not to lynch someone on any day serves only to withhold information from the wolves, therefore helping the villager(s).

This is blatantly false. No lynch happened yesterday, but for some strange reason you all think I'm a villager because I voted not to lynch someone yesterday.

There are only 15 people in the game. 2 died last night and 2 are villagers now.

that leaves 9 wolves and 2 villagers. If we go around randomly lynching people that hardly helps our cause. We started with low numbers and without a seer, I found no point in lynching someone the first day. I rather keep a wolf alive for another day than lynch them. Especially when the chance was 1/15 to net the villager. If that makes me suspicious so be it. You guys need to get your mindframe out of normal WW games because this isn't a normal game.

[Logic]

I defended myself last night.

edit:


This is blatantly false. No lynch happened yesterday, but for some strange reason you all think I'm a villager because I voted not to lynch someone yesterday.

There are only 15 people in the game. 2 died last night and 2 are villagers now.

that leaves 9 wolves and 2 villagers. If we go around randomly lynching people that hardly helps our cause. We started with low numbers and without a seer, I found no point in lynching someone the first day. I rather keep a wolf alive for another day than lynch them. Especially when the chance was 1/15 to net the villager. If that makes me suspicious so be it. You guys need to get your mindframe out of normal WW games because this isn't a normal game.

Emphasis mine:
While the above is a very plausible scenario, we don't know that for sure. I think it looks wolfish (townish? Villagerish?) to state such as fact.

It's almost enough to swing my vote. Keep talking Deathslayer. I wanna see you either redeem or damn yourself.

[rakkoon]

My idea was to kill the villager with a lucky shot at night. I was shooting blanks apparently. Now we need to analyse and not forget that wolves can be turned!

[BasketOfPuppies]

The only reason I’ve been bloodthirsty is because right now the villager’s goal is to stall long enough to convert enough wolves to have a good safety net and to slowly start picking off wolves. We need to mobilize. The longer we wait, the bigger the villager’s advantage.

[kgato503]

The only reason I’ve been bloodthirsty is because right now the villager’s goal is to stall long enough to convert enough wolves to have a good safety net and to slowly start picking off wolves. We need to mobilize. The longer we wait, the bigger the villager’s advantage.

Yes, but the more wolves we kill, the bigger the advantage the villager(s) have as well.

I have noticed that questions have been asked and ignored. To recap, two people have asked DeathSlayer7 what they did last night, and one person asked the same of BasketOfPuppies. There was also a general question about who may have tried to kill DeathSlayer7 last night (which quite possibly could have been no one).

Edit: Oops, missed that DeathSlayer7 responded that he defended, my bad . Thank you Aventine.

[Aventine]

Lynches are the best way to get information. Electing not to lynch someone on any day serves only to withhold information from the wolves, therefore helping the villager(s).

This is blatantly false. No lynch happened yesterday, but for some strange reason you all think I'm a villager because I voted not to lynch someone yesterday.

There are only 15 people in the game. 2 died last night and 2 are villagers now.

that leaves 9 wolves and 2 villagers. If we go around randomly lynching people that hardly helps our cause. We started with low numbers and without a seer, I found no point in lynching someone the first day. I rather keep a wolf alive for another day than lynch them. Especially when the chance was 1/15 to net the villager. If that makes me suspicious so be it. You guys need to get your mindframe out of normal WW games because this isn't a normal game.

Lynching is useful for getting information. Not only in voting patterns but from pressure. Make people talk; make them nervous about getting lynched then make them talk. Try to get them to slip up. It's less easy and reliable than follow-the-seer, but it is a basic element of the game. You point out that we don't have a seer. Ok, our ability to gather information is much less than in a normal game. But where you lose me is when you suggest that because our information gathering abilities are less than in a normal game we should ignore and refuse to use what information gathering abilities we still have. You kept the voting tied rather than break the tie. You could have put someone under (a little bit of) pressure, instead you kept everyone safe. With somebody in danger, there is a chance they will slip up. With nobody in danger, that chance is all but nonexistent. Nobody is suggesting lynching randomly, they are suggesting trying to use our lynch cleverly to catch the villager(s). You are trying way too hard to discredit town's only real tool.

So, yeah, this isn't a normal game, but that just makes your actions even worse.


Couple other notes:

First, your math is wrong. There are actually 14 players (Sanity included herself on the list as the dead narrator). But, 14 minus four (two dead and two villagers) is 10 town and 2 villagers (and would have been 11 and 2 if we started with 15 like you thought).

Secondly, it looks like a fair number of people are flying under the radar. Fair warning, I am going to kill one tonight on the theory that the villager wants to avoid attracting attention.

Edit:

I have noticed that questions have been asked and ignored. To recap, two people have asked DeathSlayer7 what they did last night, and one person asked the same of BasketOfPuppies. There was also a general question about who may have tried to kill DeathSlayer7 last night (which quite possibly could have been no one).

To be fair, Deathslayer did respond, claiming a defend action. I still want to know if anybody tried to kill him. (I really need to check for new posts if I start one myself then take forever to get around to posting it)

[BasketOfPuppies]

@kgato: I targeted Deathslayer with my kill

[kgato503]

Lynching is useful for getting information. Not only in voting patterns but from pressure. Make people talk; make them nervous about getting lynched then make them talk. Try to get them to slip up. It's less easy and reliable than follow-the-seer, but it is a basic element of the game. You point out that we don't have a seer. Ok, our ability to gather information is much less than in a normal game. But where you lose me is when you suggest that because our information gathering abilities are less than in a normal game we should ignore and refuse to use what information gathering abilities we still have. You kept the voting tied rather than break the tie. You could have put someone under (a little bit of) pressure, instead you kept everyone safe. With somebody in danger, there is a chance they will slip up. With nobody in danger, that chance is all but nonexistent. Nobody is suggesting lynching randomly, they are suggesting trying to use our lynch cleverly to catch the villager(s). You are trying way too hard to discredit town's only real tool.

That...is an excellent, and well thought out argument. Thank you. To which, my only possible response is as follows: opps .

I will vote for BasketOfPuppies at the moment (strongly subject to change if voting is prolonged). At this point, I cannot, in good conscious, vote to kill DeathSlayer7, especially so close to the end of the day. Doubly so, where we were thinking along the same lines "yesterday" (I will not condemn someone for making the same goof I did). Aventine has now given an excellent argument as to where I misinterpreted a few things (I am use to RL WW, and missed some of the subtexet of message board WW, again, my bad ). I still think BoP was being a bit too blood thirsty, and since most everyone was on the same page about lynchings, a Villager could get away with acting like that, without too many problems. The Villager(s) still benefit greatly by a wolf lynching, and I have seen more than one bandwagon being perpetuated by the "enemy".

[Logic]

That...is an excellent, and well thought out argument. Thank you. To which, my only possible response is as follows: opps .

I will vote for BasketOfPuppies at the moment (strongly subject to change if voting is prolonged). At this point, I cannot, in good conscious, vote to kill DeathSlayer7, especially so close to the end of the day. Doubly so, where we were thinking along the same lines "yesterday" (I will not condemn someone for making the same goof I did). Aventine has now given an excellent argument as to where I misinterpreted a few things (I am use to RL WW, and missed some of the subtexet of message board WW, again, my bad ). I still think BoP was being a bit too blood thirsty, and since most everyone was on the same page about lynchings, a Villager could get away with acting like that, without too many problems. The Villager(s) still benefit greatly by a wolf lynching, and I have seen more than one bandwagon being perpetuated by the "enemy".

I don't understand this vote. You are tied with Deathslayer for lynch, so you absolutely should be voting for the next highest wagon; in this case, Deathslayer.

If you are on team low-information*, you should be doing everything in your power to prevent the loss of one of your own, and that means you over an unknown. Yes, Deathslayer COULD be a wolf like you, but self preservation is more team low-information than a throwaway vote on someone that doesn't have a reasonable case on them yet. You want to justify your vote on BoP? Make a better case.

Right now, I am feeling more confident in my vote cast against you.

*Normally Town, in this case, wolves.

[BasketOfPuppies]

I’m going to swap to kgato503 because they didn’t untie the vote.

[AvatarVecna]

A first day where there's no lynch is a day that gives absolutely no information. Sure, D1 is rarely great for info until late-game anyway, and just causes frustration in the days immediately following, but lynching is still better than no lynching because it means that there's information the group gains from the narrator that isn't necessarily information the scum want us to have. This is particularly true in a game where almost everybody has a night kill, because itchy trigger fingers can make the game even shorter than it normally would be, meaning we get even fewer lynches to glean information from. Wolf-town is already shambling along with a loaded gun and no working eyes trying not to shoot themselves in the foot, but that doesn't mean we should throw the gun away just to be safe.

Also, should I be surprised that the same person advocating for "no lynch" on D1 is also the one that gave a hard number for remaining villagers?

EDIT: Deathslayer

[Chambers]

Also, should I be surprised that the same person advocating for "no lynch" on D1 is also the one that gave a hard number for remaining villagers?

EDIT: Deathslayer

I don't think there is need to look for nefarious intent there. Every mistake isn't a calculated move. Still voting for DS7, just saying that it could be a simple counting error for the villager thing.

[kgato503]

I don't understand this vote. You are tied with Deathslayer for lynch, so you absolutely should be voting for the next highest wagon; in this case, Deathslayer.

If you are on team low-information*, you should be doing everything in your power to prevent the loss of one of your own, and that means you over an unknown. Yes, Deathslayer COULD be a wolf like you, but self preservation is more team low-information than a throwaway vote on someone that doesn't have a reasonable case on them yet. You want to justify your vote on BoP? Make a better case.

Right now, I am feeling more confident in my vote cast against you.

*Normally Town, in this case, wolves.

I’m going to swap to kgato503 because they didn’t untie the vote.

Interesting, considering that when I made my vote, DeathSlayer7 had 4 votes to my 3, at least by my count :smallannoyed:. Now, with one vote switched to me, and a new vote for DeathSlayer7, we are tied, with AvatarVecna making the tie vote, which you all hate. I will not vote for myself, and I will not condemn another for having the same (if possibly flawed) logic. We just happen to think alike. Right now, it seems like Logic is a good choice, since they just gave false information, but I will stay with BasketOfPuppies for the moment, since they jumped on the false information. At the time I voted originally, votes for Deathslayer7 was in the lead, followed by votes for kgato503, and trailing behind both was a vote for BasketOfPuppies. Of those three options, I was not voting for me, and as I said, I could not bring myself to vote for Deathslayer7. This left BasketOfPuppies, who I am hoping I can get some more votes for. If you guys can make a convincing argument for me to change my vote, that does not also apply to me due to my evidently goofing up, I will change my vote. I am one of those, in a RL WW, who sits quietly and observes for a while, watching everyone else. I will admit, it works better in larger games. I also hate to lynch on the first day, because I remember it is a game, and it stinks to be lynched the first day.

Also, I repeat: Logic was wrong to say I allowed a tie to remain when I voted, and AvatarVecna just tied the vote. AFTER I voted. :smallmad:.

[Deathslayer7]

If BoP targeted me with a kill. Were they the only one? If so, I should be dead but I'm not. That should be proof enough until someone else claims.

Also, yes I can say with certainty that there are now 2 villagers. Why would they not use it? The only reason there wouldn't be is if the Villager didn't send in a night action and that would make for a very boring game in my opinion. I need to re-read the thread.

@ Logic:

Emphasis mine:
While the above is a very plausible scenario, we don't know that for sure. I think it looks wolfish (townish? Villagerish?) to state such as fact.

It's almost enough to swing my vote. Keep talking Deathslayer. I wanna see you either redeem or damn yourself.

I'm 99.9% sure that it happened just by logical assumptions based on what the villager should do the first night. And if they didn't turn someone, then they majorly screwed up because they could have gotten killed last night by an off-kill. To assume ottherwise is just foolish in my opinion. And i didn't state it as a fact, I stated it as my opinion which I think is true. I believe there are 2 villagers now, and I'm going to assume and write as such.

@ Vecna:

A first day where there's no lynch is a day that gives absolutely no information. Sure, D1 is rarely great for info until late-game anyway, and just causes frustration in the days immediately following, but lynching is still better than no lynching because it means that there's information the group gains from the narrator that isn't necessarily information the scum want us to have. This is particularly true in a game where almost everybody has a night kill, because itchy trigger fingers can make the game even shorter than it normally would be, meaning we get even fewer lynches to glean information from. Wolf-town is already shambling along with a loaded gun and no working eyes trying not to shoot themselves in the foot, but that doesn't mean we should throw the gun away just to be safe.

Also, should I be surprised that the same person advocating for "no lynch" on D1 is also the one that gave a hard number for remaining villagers?

EDIT: Deathslayer

Again, a no lynch is not a day without information. A no lynch vote from me yesterday put me on the chopping block today. Because apparently conserving wolf numbers isn't that important. We are more likely to kill ourselves than the villager with night kills and yet everyone seems to be trigger happy on day 1.

edit2: I don't think Bop, or kgato are villagers. I think we all should band together and swing the vote towards people who are lying low like Ronnoc, Chambers, etc.

edit3: I'm going to vote for Eternis. That post just isn't helpful.