[Dreamscarred Press] New Playtest: the Voyager, a psionic skirmisher!

[Deimosaur]

Here comes a new playtest for a psionic class, courtesy of Dreamscarred Press: the Voyager. A 6-level manifestor with plenty of potential tricks up their sleeves, voyagers are tricksters who play with time and space. And they love to go fast! They have a unique new ability based on their capability of receiving assistance from their future, past, and alternate selves, known as parallel actions. In combat, they can make unique things happen with a combination of speed and psionic power. Besides their contributions in a fight, a voyager can fit into a party as a trapfinder or a veritable fountain of knowledge.

Besides the base class, this document contains supporting feats for psionic classes and racial favored class options for the voyager, along with an archetypes for the voyager. The archetype is the metronome, who keeps pace with her alternate selves to gain consistency at the cost of potential speed.

To read about them and more, click here:

(or this link)

Game well and have fun.

[Dromuthra]

Holy cow this is cool! I REALLY like momentum!

[legomaster00156]

What led you to decide on a d6 HD? That's usually a full caster's HD, whereas skirmishers usually sport d8's (and very occasionally d10's).

[Ninjaxenomorph]

And it's surprising to see a purported melee class get a d6, not to mention decoupling it from the standard HD/BAB dichotomy. Granted, taking Psionic Body would help since you get a bonus psionic feat (Expanded Knowledge) every time you gain a new level of powers would help mitigate that.

[Andras Zodon]

It looks like its fully intended for momentum to be usable in tandem with ranged attacks. That's pretty interesting, actually. Speedsters are cool, but you can't be the flash until you can throw lightning!

[Rynjin]

What led you to decide on a d6 HD? That's usually a full caster's HD, whereas skirmishers usually sport d8's (and very occasionally d10's).

If I had to take a stab at it, it's because Tracer is a really squishy character. =p

I kid (mostly). The class looks really cool.

[Swaoeaeieu]

am on my first read through, loving the feel of the class, but dont have high hopes for ever playing one, as all the stuff to keep track off would blow my head up.

either way, my english isnt the best but i think i found a typo: in Time Trap (branched path) "The voyager can have her parallel counterparts can pull someone..." two can's dont look right.

i'll keep reading, it's all looking great so far ^^

[Dromuthra]

Under the Impending Disaster ability, it states that, "This area is a 10-foot spread, and the doomsayer can increase the area’s size by additional feet for every 4 class levels he has." Pretty sure it's missing a number there - I'm guessing 5' or 10' increase?

[DMVerdandi]

interesting, BUT... I would think that Fast movement would be a giveaway.
Monk, which yes, alters their body through ki, passively gets hella speed, and even barbarian who moves faster than normal man for...reasons does as well, but this class which is all about time/space travel is not even given +10?


This has always disturbed me. "quick" classes, like rogue or ninja for example, not getting any movement bonus.
I think it would, and should benefit from it.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

The Elf and Dwarf FCBs seem rather strong when combined with multiple attacks.

interesting, BUT... I would think that Fast movement would be a giveaway.
Monk, which yes, alters their body through ki, passively gets hella speed, and even barbarian who moves faster than normal man for...reasons does as well, but this class which is all about time/space travel is not even given +10?


This has always disturbed me. "quick" classes, like rogue or ninja for example, not getting any movement bonus.
I think it would, and should benefit from it.

That's a bit odd, but they do have things like Speed of Thought, various Parallel Actions, and Psionic Powers to boost their speed - perhaps the attention was that they would rely on them rather than having a purely physical boost?

[Dromuthra]

interesting, BUT... I would think that Fast movement would be a giveaway.
Monk, which yes, alters their body through ki, passively gets hella speed, and even barbarian who moves faster than normal man for...reasons does as well, but this class which is all about time/space travel is not even given +10?


This has always disturbed me. "quick" classes, like rogue or ninja for example, not getting any movement bonus.
I think it would, and should benefit from it.

Did you not read Accelerate? By the end, while psionically focused they're getting +50 ft. speed, and can take a single feat for another +25.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Why isn't the momentum damage bonus from Power Cycle reduced when you spend PP as a free action, but move/swift/immediate are? I've found ways for 2 psionic classes (Aegis and Vitalist) to do so with minimal level investment, and I only checked Ultimate Psionics itself. The Aegis one in particular would be brutally effective.

Momentous Maneuvers should probably convert the damage bonus from Power Cycle into additional maneuver bonus to maintain parity between damage and maneuver styles.

I don't like how squishy this class especially if you're going into melee. It has less HP than a Monk (until level 14 for Swapped Selves, assuming you don't get one-shot) and less AC than a Monk (no scaling +1/4 level bonus to AC on top of adding mental stat to AC). The AC bonus is even more vulnerable than a Monk's, because Uncanny Dodge can be bypassed (or feinted for the Voyager) while a Monk's AC bonus only turns off when immobilized or helpless.

Is Blink Frenzy's attack damage reduction intended to be a multiplier of 0.5 in terms of its interactions? Because if so the damage from the ability would be way too much, and crits would effectively nullify and then some the damage penalty anyways. If it's supposed to be some sort of overall damage reduction as a separate part of the formula, it should probably more clearly state that.

Personally, I would always take the Metronome archetype. The same initiative count is much more reliable, and being able to choose whether it happens before or after you each round is enormously useful. It means Fast-Forward readied attacks have no lag time, and that Pause can be used every other round to protect you without interfering with your own attacks (have it activate after your turn, then the next round have parallel go before you so the Pause buff expires).

The Ratfolk FCB seem a bit out of line, it's double the scaling of the Monk bonus, and runs into the opposite problem regular Voyager has by making them incredibly difficult to hit. The Dromite's FCB almost makes it sound like it stacks if you move through multiple allies since it mentions it happens "each time".

Overall though I find the class intriguing, and better than I had expected. I was worried it was going to be to Cryptic what Highlord is to Tactician, but it feels significantly more different to me.

[Deimosaur]

Regarding the voyager's hit die: I figured that voyagers may be able to compensate for their low hit points with various options from parallel actions and manifesting. But I'm hearing all of your concerns here. Also it might have been an artifact of an older design but I forget.

I don't like how squishy this class especially if you're going into melee. It has less HP than a Monk (until level 14 for Swapped Selves, assuming you don't get one-shot) and less AC than a Monk (no scaling +1/4 level bonus to AC on top of adding mental stat to AC). The AC bonus is even more vulnerable than a Monk's, because Uncanny Dodge can be bypassed (or feinted for the Voyager) while a Monk's AC bonus only turns off when immobilized or helpless.

I will note though, that unlike the monk, the voyager can wear light armor and wield shields. If the lack of additional scaling is an issue, I'll look into improving this aspect of Momentum.

Personally, I would always take the Metronome archetype. The same initiative count is much more reliable, and being able to choose whether it happens before or after you each round is enormously useful. It means Fast-Forward readied attacks have no lag time, and that Pause can be used every other round to protect you without interfering with your own attacks (have it activate after your turn, then the next round have parallel go before you so the Pause buff expires).

By all means, try it out. I'd like to hear your and other opinions about this after they both get tried out a little. I think they both have their pros and cons.

The base voyager can at least delay their own initiative (or their parallel one, should it miraculously roll higher) to sync themselves up with their parallel action. Voyager vs metronome is more like a choice between versatility and reliability.

What you've mentioned there, though... might be a rules hole I need to take care of! "Until her next parallel turn" was kind of a shortcut to saying "one round" so I'd better go fix that.

either way, my english isnt the best but i think i found a typo: in Time Trap (branched path) "The voyager can have her parallel counterparts can pull someone..." two can's dont look right.

Under the Impending Disaster ability, it states that, "This area is a 10-foot spread, and the doomsayer can increase the area’s size by additional feet for every 4 class levels he has." Pretty sure it's missing a number there - I'm guessing 5' or 10' increase?

How embarrassing. Fixed these. (It's 5 feet for impending disaster.)

The Elf and Dwarf FCBs seem rather strong when combined with multiple attacks.

The Ratfolk FCB seem a bit out of line, it's double the scaling of the Monk bonus, and runs into the opposite problem regular Voyager has by making them incredibly difficult to hit.

Agreed, there used to be factors that balanced these but then we changed those! Fixed:

The maximum bonus this ability can grant to a given attack is equal to the amount of momentum consumed by that attack.

The voyager gains either +1/2 additional AC against melee or ranged attacks when she gains AC from momentum, chosen whenever she takes this bonus.

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Are you unaware that short of specific archetypes and class features, HD and BAB are linked together? This class should have a d8 for HD.

Also, momentum, the class's source of extra damage, is a highly inconvenient class feature that encourages going back and forth between two squares to gain momentum.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Are you unaware that short of specific archetypes and class features, HD and BAB are linked together? This class should have a d8 for HD.

3pp restricting themselves to only what Paizo has done in the past limits the potential creativity of trying different designs. There is no overriding mandate from Paizo that they must be linked after all. Hell, look at the Rajah or its Batal archetype, also by DSP. They're more than willing to change up expectations to try something new.

Also, momentum, the class's source of extra damage, is a highly inconvenient class feature that encourages going back and forth between two squares to gain momentum.

I agree here that the back and forth to build momentum is an issue, thematically anyways. Perhaps it should require moving into a square they haven't been in that turn? That would result in a more zigzag type pattern similar to if one were playing the Snake video game, which is a little better at least.

I will note though, that unlike the monk, the voyager can wear light armor and wield shields. If the lack of additional scaling is an issue, I'll look into improving this aspect of Momentum.

I readily admit I had not noticed it could wear light armor and use shields, I have a tendency to gloss over the proficiency section in new classes. That's actually fine then, a +5 heavy shield is 7 AC alone, already better than Monk AC at that point, and that's not even getting into armor itself. I suppose the idea is that the Voyager has very strong AC but weak HP so they don't get hit often at all but when they do they seriously feel it (like Grodd managing to smack around Barry)?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I haven't seen the final version of the the batal, but the rajah was d6 HD and 1/2 BAB, unless it was radically changed from the playtest.

[EarthSeraphEdna]

3pp restricting themselves to only what Paizo has done in the past limits the potential creativity of trying different designs. There is no overriding mandate from Paizo that they must be linked after all. Hell, look at the Rajah or its Batal archetype, also by DSP.

The rajah still has d6 HD and 1/2 BAB. Specific archetypes and class features can tinker with this. I do not see a good mechanical reason for the voyager to be unable to take a hit.

I agree here that the back and forth to build momentum is an issue, thematically anyways. Perhaps it should require moving into a square they haven't been in that turn? That would result in a more zigzag type pattern similar to if one were playing the Snake video game, which is a little better at least.

The most optimal playstyle for a voyager so far seems to be to move back and forth between two squares and then fire a bow.

If they downgrade momentum, then the voyager will have trouble putting out decent offense.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I haven't seen the final version of the the batal, but the rajah was d6 HD and 1/2 BAB, unless it was radically changed from the playtest.

Yes, but it's got the large attack bonus to fake having a higher BAB. Plus the Batal archetype still gives the effect of 2 HP per level, it may not technically change the Rajah's HD but that sure as hell the end result.

The most optimal playstyle for a voyager so far seems to be to move back and forth between two squares and then fire a bow.

I know, I was agreeing with you? Did you not read the post, I was putting forth a suggestion as a possible change to address that very playstyle?

[Dromuthra]

Yeah, I'm not personally a fan that you can hop between two different squares. One possible fix would be to allow Momentum to persist until used, but require the Voyager to end their movement a number of squares away from their starting position equal to 1/2 or 1/3 the amount of momentum used? Like, to use 10 Momentum, you'd need to end your movement 25 or 15 ft. away from your starting point depending on which conversion you used.

I think it would also be cool if Accelerate somehow let you upgrade Up the Walls as you gained levels, and eventually allowed you to stand on vertical and upside-down surfaces once you reached a certain level.

Other than that, some balance issues with the favored classes:
Orc: With the Dwarf and Elf nerfed to at most provide 20 bonus damage per round, it seems odd that the Orc can provide up to 40.
Ifrit: Unlike the other elemental damage modifiers (Maenad, Sylph, etc.), the Ifrit gains +1 per level instead of +1/2
Elemental Damage Bonus Races (Ifrit, Maenad, Sylph, etc.): These races add more damage over a round than the Elves and Dwarves do. Given that Elves and Dwarves cap out at 20 damage, it seems odd that the elemental damage races can do 30 damage in a round by having the Voyager spend their momentum over each of their three attacks (allowing them to apply the +10 damage to each hit of their BaB at level 20). This ratio gets even sillier if the Voyager uses Two Weapon fighting, as a point of momentum can be used to add 1d6+10 to each iterative or natural attack the Voyager has. It's a neat concept, but it's too easy to break.
Tiefling: WOW you're good. The FCB can add +60 damage to your attacks in a surprise round, and any other time you can set up flanking. The number only goes up if you consider the TWF route.

[Deimosaur]

I'm not married to the d6 HD. If it's a problem in testing then I will certainly think about changing it.

I will also think about the momentum issues that some of you brought up earlier. I know it's gameable at the moment but adding too many restrictions on how the voyager has to move to get their damage isn't particularly desirable either.

Other than that, some balance issues with the favored classes:
Orc: With the Dwarf and Elf nerfed to at most provide 20 bonus damage per round, it seems odd that the Orc can provide up to 40.
Ifrit: Unlike the other elemental damage modifiers (Maenad, Sylph, etc.), the Ifrit gains +1 per level instead of +1/2
Elemental Damage Bonus Races (Ifrit, Maenad, Sylph, etc.): These races add more damage over a round than the Elves and Dwarves do. Given that Elves and Dwarves cap out at 20 damage, it seems odd that the elemental damage races can do 30 damage in a round by having the Voyager spend their momentum over each of their three attacks (allowing them to apply the +10 damage to each hit of their BaB at level 20). This ratio gets even sillier if the Voyager uses Two Weapon fighting, as a point of momentum can be used to add 1d6+10 to each iterative or natural attack the Voyager has. It's a neat concept, but it's too easy to break.
Tiefling: WOW you're good. The FCB can add +60 damage to your attacks in a surprise round, and any other time you can set up flanking. The number only goes up if you consider the TWF route.

...ack.

Yeah, I'm adding the same caveat I added to elf and dwarf to the others.

I'd rather there not be notably powerful outliers. All races can pick up the 1/6 of a psionic feat FCB, but if anything seems very underpowered (not just specific or situational) please let me know.

[Galacktic]

So I'm throwing together one (I'm at a point where I can swap characters in a game, and I'm looking to test something new and fresh!) and I'm trying to decide between strength or dex based. I'm gonna ignore projectiles, as that doesn't seem to quite fit the theme and I'm curious as to what was more prevalent in your tests so far? Strength or dex?

And what martial weapon do people tend to take?


And another question: Did you play ToME? This reminds me incredibly heavily of the Temporal Warden and Paradox Mages!

E2: One other question: Why is it that only the Doombringer archetype has any downsides for the Voyager? Thematically, if you're taking time and assistance from your future selves (or psionically created versions thereof) then shouldn't you at some point have to pay that time back to assist yourself in the past? Or was that just too clunky to actually play with?

E3: In my prospective build for this, I'm taking a dip at level 5 into Stalker for Killer's Implements, I believe. That'd shore up the feat situation a bit - seeing as how feat heavy the class is in general I feel like - and grant a few bonuses besides. I'd delay branching paths a bit, but that's fine with me.

[Deimosaur]

So I'm throwing together one (I'm at a point where I can swap characters in a game, and I'm looking to test something new and fresh!) and I'm trying to decide between strength or dex based. I'm gonna ignore projectiles, as that doesn't seem to quite fit the theme and I'm curious as to what was more prevalent in your tests so far? Strength or dex?

And what martial weapon do people tend to take?

I'd recommend trying or building both. Strength is probably simpler overall, if you're going melee.

And another question: Did you play ToME? This reminds me incredibly heavily of the Temporal Warden and Paradox Mages!

I haven't. I'll have to take a peek at some point and see how much convergent development there was. : P

E2: One other question: Why is it that only the Doombringer archetype has any downsides for the Voyager? Thematically, if you're taking time and assistance from your future selves (or psionically created versions thereof) then shouldn't you at some point have to pay that time back to assist yourself in the past? Or was that just too clunky to actually play with?

Thematically, a voyager can certainly role-play that way in down time. Space out, look like they're concentrating on something far away. But they don't 'owe' themselves any debts. It's not an obligation that needs to be paid by in-game mechanics.

Balance-wise, the reason the doomsayer gets staggered with some parallel actions is that the effects of such actions are stronger. Thematically, it's because their future self is kind of a terrible person (if they are a person anymore, that is...) and aggressively draws on the doomsayer's time to make stuff happen.

E3: In my prospective build for this, I'm taking a dip at level 5 into Stalker for Killer's Implements, I believe. That'd shore up the feat situation a bit - seeing as how feat heavy the class is in general I feel like - and grant a few bonuses besides. I'd delay branching paths a bit, but that's fine with me.

Feel free to experiment!

[Air0r]

I have this mental image of a voyager rapidly throwing phantasmal future selves at their enemies, that harm the target and dissipate on contact. that is all for now.

[Galacktic]

Fast question: Faster and Faster, when it refers to the insight bonus granted by the Accelerate class feature does it also include the base 10' included in Speed of Thought or only what Accelerate adds?

[digiman619]

Okay. Let me take a look and give you my initial impressions:
* Any reason it's 3/4th BAB with a D6 hit die? Because half BAB=d6, 3/4th BAB=d8 and full=d10/d12 is kinda a major assumption of the game.
* Accelerate really ought only double move rate if you move at least 30 ft. Otherwise, Dwarf and small Voyagers will get shortchanged.
* Momentum is a really interesting way to promote being a mobile striker. I like it, though part of me worries that some build will dip a level of Voyager to get it. Also, what's stopping them from running in circles to get more momentum?
* Voyager Knowledge gives 19 Expanded Knowledge feats? That... seems powerful. Even if you can't get 7-9th level powers. 5 instances of Expanded Knowledge is really interesting.
* Information Exchange really ought to allow you to make the "borrowed" knowledge trained. If for no other reason than you otherwise won't be able to beat a DC 10.
* Swapped Selves seems odd, but hit point damage isn't the leading cause of death at that level, so it should be fine.
* Fate in Flux seemed like its effect (free psychic reformation on yourself) was kinda mandatory for the fluff it had.
* What happens if the future version of a voyager summoned via Eternity Awaits dies? Does another, even later in the future version of them show up? How far does that go?
* The pause parallel action should probably have some sort of drawback for casting while paused because as it stands, casters/manifesters are only inconvenienced if they are using a spell/power that requires an attack roll.
* You do realize that Focused Swiftness is strictly better than Deep Focus, right? Even if that's your intention, you should probably but a prerequisite on it because as it stands, anyone can take it and some may interpret that as allowing them to become psionically focused without being psionic.

All and all a really interesting class that has the most important qualification for a casting/manifesting class have: it is interesting without access to its spells/powers (it's why Wizards bore me to this day).

[Galacktic]

Okay. Let me take a look and give you my initial impressions:
* Any reason it's 3/4th BAB with a D6 hit die? Because half BAB=d6, 3/4th BAB=d8 and fll=d10/d12 is kinda a major assumption of the game.
* Accelerate really ought only double move rate if you move at least 30 ft. Otherwise, Dwarf and small Voyagers will get shortchanged.
* Momentum is a really interesting way to promote being a mobile striker. I like it, though part of me worries that some build will dip a level of Voyager to get it. Also, what's stopping them from running in circles to get more momentum?
* Voyager Knowledge gives 19 Expanded Knowledge feats? That... seems powerful. Even if you can't get 7-9th level powers.
* Information Exchange really ought to allow you to make the "borrowed" knowledge trained. If for no other reason than otherwise you won;t be able to beat a DC 10.
* Swapped Selves seems odd, but hit point damage isn't the leading casue of death at taht level, so it should be fine.
* Fate in Flux seemed like its effect (free psychic reformation on yourself) was kinda mandatory for the fluff it had.
* What happens if the future version of a voyager summend via Eternity Awaits dies? Does another, even later in the future version of them show up? How far does that go?
* The pause parallel action should probaly have some sort of drawback for casting while pasused, becasue as it stands, casters/manifesters are only inconvinenced if they are using a spell/power that requires an attack roll.
* You do realize that Focused Swiftness is strictly better than Deep Focus, right? Even if that's your intention, you should probalby but a prerequisite oin it because as it stands, anyone can take it and some may interpret that as allowing them to become psionically focues without being psionic.

All and all a really interesting class that has the most important qualification for a casting/manifesting class have: it is interesting without access to its spells/powers (it's why Wizards bore me to this day).

Voyager Knowledge only gives 5 Expanded Knowledge: One for each power level after first. I think.

[digiman619]

Voyager Knowledge only gives 5 Expanded Knowledge: One for each power level after first. I think.

Whoops, you are right, In retropsect, that should have been obvious. Perhaps wording it as "At 4th level and every level you gain access to a new level of voyager powers...". At least including it on the table at the appropriate levels might prevent misunderstandings.

[Deimosaur]

* Accelerate really ought only double move rate if you move at least 30 ft. Otherwise, Dwarf and small Voyagers will get shortchanged.
* Information Exchange really ought to allow you to make the "borrowed" knowledge trained. If for no other reason than you otherwise won't be able to beat a DC 10.
* What happens if the future version of a voyager summoned via Eternity Awaits dies? Does another, even later in the future version of them show up? How far does that go?
* The pause parallel action should probably have some sort of drawback for casting while paused because as it stands, casters/manifesters are only inconvenienced if they are using a spell/power that requires an attack roll.
* You do realize that Focused Swiftness is strictly better than Deep Focus, right? Even if that's your intention, you should probably but a prerequisite on it because as it stands, anyone can take it and some may interpret that as allowing them to become psionically focused without being psionic.

* Hee hee short changed. (Will think about this.)
* Yeah, good idea.
* The future Voyager doesn't get Eternity Awaits. So them dying means...they're dead.
* Perhaps. Will think about it.
* Focused Swiftness is better if you only used your psionic focus on movement-based abilities or powers. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by this? In addition, Focused Swiftness is a psionic feat, which means it requires you to be psionic already.

Voyager Knowledge only gives 5 Expanded Knowledge: One for each power level after first. I think.

Correct.

Whoops, you are right, In retropsect, that should have been obvious. Perhaps wording it as "At 4th level and every level you gain access to a new level of voyager powers...". At least including it on the table at the appropriate levels might prevent misunderstandings.

It'd be nice, but there's a possibility of a voyager getting a 2nd level power (etc) earlier than their 4th voyager level. From a PrC that progresses their powers, for instance.

Fast question: Faster and Faster, when it refers to the insight bonus granted by the Accelerate class feature does it also include the base 10' included in Speed of Thought or only what Accelerate adds?

As written, it only buffs the extra speed of Accelerate.

[Galacktic]

Question: Do the teleports that the Voyager gets (the primary one I'm thinking of right now is Assisted Escape) require line of sight or effect? Or say, can the Voyager walk up to a doorway and teleport through using their parallel action?

[Deimosaur]

Question: Do the teleports that the Voyager gets (the primary one I'm thinking of right now is Assisted Escape) require line of sight or effect? Or say, can the Voyager walk up to a doorway and teleport through using their parallel action?

I added some text to the parallel action section that should clarify things regarding parallel actions and line of sight/effect.

Unless otherwise noted, parallel actions that target something or teleport the voyager require line of sight, though those that teleport do not require line of effect.