Reading Heir to the Empire

[Mechalich]

The main thing that I have always been curious or wondered about is why exactly does all of Thrawn's people have blue skin and red eyes, plus black hair. They tried to explain as something oxygen related or light related, but I can't recall what the different actual reasons were.

Or how they ended up with their philosophy being what it was. Or how their culture ended up. It's a bit strange and I don't recall if Zahn or his less capable writers ever explained the Chiss.

There's a fair amount about the Chiss in Survivor's Quest and Outbound Flight, also some in the Edge of Victory NJO novels and bits and pieces in reference works like the Essential Atlas, and RPG supplements like The Unknown Regions. There's also a considerable amount of material regarding the Chiss in SWTOR - including a visit to a Chiss settlement on Copero during the Flashpoint 'A Traitor Among the Chiss,' which is I believe the only time visual media has shown a Chiss world. As information on the Chiss comes from a hodgepodge of sources the best synthesis is probably the species Wookieepedia article.

Legends canon-wise, the Chiss a human offshoot species resulting from the sleeper ship Colonization of Csilla prior to the founding of the Republic. Their adaptations are the result of exposure to minerals there.

[Peelee]

Okay, since I am intrguied but cannot be arsed to read the summary on Woooookiieeeepeeiidiia, would someone like to briefly summarise why Aftermath et al sucked so bad? I have no intention of reading it, but I'm curious. ('Spose you better spoiler it for the sake of arguement...!)

Spoiler: The turned into a wall o' text. Also, very, VERY minor spoilers for Lost Stars. I really dont even consider it a spoiler, tbh.

Show

Writing style: I'd misspoke earlier when I said it was in first person. It's in present tense, which I think is worse. There are many, many short asides, so many that it honestly seemed like a fourteen-year-old wrote it. Same for parentheses.

Story: speaking of, the main protagonist is a fourteen-year-old. He teams up with his mom, a former imperial spy, a bounty hunter who is just the coolest and I know that because I'm barely paraphrasing from the text, and I don't even remember who the last guy was other than he and the bounty hunter made out angrily a lot and then he died. Oh, and the fourteen-year-old has an old battle droid - the really dumb, annoying ones - that he made into a super assassin droid and also provides comic relief, or as close to it as the book gets.

Anyway, they manage to meet and befriend most major movie characters, like Leia, Mon Mothma, Han, etc. The difference between these characters meeting and befriending them vs all other authors original characters meeting and befriending them is in all the other stories, the big names were the main characters, so they will obviously meet other people in their adventures. In Aftermath, though, oh hey there's Princess Leia she's hiring us to rescue Han Solo we are the COOLEST PEOPLE EVER. It's as if Wendig thought he had to toss them in to add legitimacy to his books.

They also manage to become archenemies of the head of the Empire, because again, they're just the coolest people ever. Unless they meet the most important players on both sides, they dont matter. Or so the Chuck seems to think.

In the second book, IIRC, there are a bunch of cutaways to completely new, different groups of people who have no relevance to the story and never show up again. If their purpose was to foreshadow or highlight or parallel anything in the story, I never got that. Just useless barely-vignettes of random people scattered throughout that never amount to anything. One refers to a pirate captain referred to as he, she, and xir; my dislike of non standardized pronouns aside, that character was in one of the random, pointless vignettes of brand new, unrelated people who never show up again. If they were a part of the main story, that'd be fine by all the people it was fine by to begin with and would trigger all the people it triggered to begin with, but its thrown in just to be immediately thrown right back out. It may as well have been in the shape of a shoehorn; it added zero weight or characterization to the story, and managed to be about the only way to introduce a character like that in a way that I'll gripe about. If you removed the vignettes, the story would be exactly the same with no change.*

The whole thing was also built up as a journey to Episode VII, while it was really just a few people's personal stories that had jack all to do with the transition between episodes. Books like Bloodlines (which was great, btw) did that much better. Hell, Lost Stars was basically Romeo and Juliet in Star Wars (I really don't consider that a spoiler, it's effectively the write-up on the back cover), and that did a better job of bridging the Episodes. To be fair here, Lost Stars is one of, if not the, best new canon books hands down. Still, though, Romeo and Juliet In Space shouldn't do a better job of bridging the Episodes than the actual series that was supposed to bridge the Episodes.


*This paragraph I may be wrong about, because by the time I got to these, I was mostly checked out and was just trying to hit the highlights, because I'd already wasted the money on the damn things. The vignettes could possibly have actual relevance to the story, and if they do, I expect someone to correct me. I welcome that, as it would make the books better. Inasmuch as I'll stop wondering how a supposedly competent author and a supposedly competent editor managed to screw up so colossally.

Admittedly, I may have slightly exaggerated a couple of issues I have, but you get the idea.

[Aotrs Commander]

Writing style: I'd misspoke earlier when I said it was in first person. It's in present tense, which I think is worse.

Ooooooooh.

Ooooooooooooooh.

Nasty.

Yeah, okay.

That ALONE is enough. I take your point.

Ye gods.

I actually had to google to see an exerpt. No offense, but I simply had trouble actually beliveing a frachised-author would write a trilogy in present tense until I saw it with my own eyeglows. And I'm still having trouble beliveing it. I mean, just...

Wow. And I thought the old EU had some bad authors and dreck, but...

Oh my Lichemaster.

I mean, the rest sounds really terrible but present tense?

*shudder*

(I am quite serious. Use of present tense in fanfic, for example, is more or less the fastest way to make me click the "back" button.)

[Peelee]

I cannot stress this enough:

OH, I KNOW. Three books of that!

ETA: Shout out to Lost Stars. Its a young adult novel that has absolutely no business being as good as it is. I absolutely recommend it as far as new canon reading lists go.

[Aotrs Commander]

I cannot stress this enough:

OH, I KNOW. Three books of that!

I... Still can't get my head round that. I really can't.

I think this is the first time I have EVER even heard of a novel written in present tense. I mean, intellectually, I know there's probably some old, famous or beloved classic or something written in it or whatever, but it's basically a gimmick. I can see the use for empahsis of effect in certain places (dream sequences/flashbacks et al) sure, but as the default? That's like writing everything in italics. Or capitals. Or capital italics! Present tense makes my skin crawl and I haven't even HAD skin for knocking on for twenty years!

I tip my helmet to you that you even managed to READ it all. I wouldn't have made it passed the first paragraph, save for perhaps skipping ahead to confirm that yes, the whole book is that.

Who even AUTHORISES that?

[Peelee]

I tip my helmet to you that you even managed to READ it all.

It'd be better to sympathize for my wife, who had to deal with my near constant moaning about that.

But yeah, if you care enough to search through old posts (I'd be surprised if you did, really), I talked about it a bit in the "What are you currently reading" thread, where I openly lamented having to read the third book when I finished the second. Hamishspence helped, but I still think the reason i didn't think it as bad as the first two was because by that point I was already dead inside.

[Velaryon]

This is true, but the only two fandoms I can think of that have alleged fans openly antagonistic to the franchise they allegedly enjoy are Star Wars fans and Sonic the Hedgehog fans.

WWE has a large number of fans that are this way too. I cannot recall instances of anyone making death threats, but neither am I willing to vouch that it hasn't happened. Instead, there are tons of fans who complain all the time about the WWE product, yet continue to subscribe to their streaming service, go to live shows, and buy the new video game every year.

To be fair, those fans' complaints aren't without merit. WWE has been coasting on past glory and lack of serious competition for the better part of two decades now, and they've completely forgotten how to tell a coherent story or how to react to fans rather than just do the same thing over and over again and ignore whether the fans like it or not.

But the rational thing for a person to do when a product ceases to be what the enjoy is to stop consuming that product. However, there are a not insignificant number of "wrestling fans" who have been complaining about WWE for 10+ years and yet still tune in every Monday night. It boggles the mind.

[Mechalich]

I... Still can't get my head round that. I really can't.

I think this is the first time I have EVER even heard of a novel written in present tense. I mean, intellectually, I know there's probably some old, famous or beloved classic or something written in it or whatever, but it's basically a gimmick. I can see the use for empahsis of effect in certain places (dream sequences/flashbacks et al) sure, but as the default? That's like writing everything in italics. Or capitals. Or capital italics! Present tense makes my skin crawl and I haven't even HAD skin for knocking on for twenty years!

I tip my helmet to you that you even managed to READ it all. I wouldn't have made it passed the first paragraph, save for perhaps skipping ahead to confirm that yes, the whole book is that.

Who even AUTHORISES that?

Writing novels in present tense has actually become a thing, at least in contemporary genre fiction. You can find even fairly famous authors (IIRC L.E. Modesitt has done so more than once) writing this way, and not as a gimmick. It's bizarre and terrible and I have no idea why this has happened, but it's definitely out there. It's perhaps comparable to the trend to produce novels that make heavy use of script format (ex. The Themis Files, which is written entirely in interview transcripts) - but that at least mirrors how conversations and data are produced in the modern age.

[Peelee]

Writing novels in present tense has actually become a thing, at least in contemporary genre fiction. You can find even fairly famous authors (IIRC L.E. Modesitt has done so more than once) writing this way, and not as a gimmick. It's bizarre and terrible and I have no idea why this has happened, but it's definitely out there. It's perhaps comparable to the trend to produce novels that make heavy use of script format (ex. The Themis Files, which is written entirely in interview transcripts) - but that at least mirrors how conversations and data are produced in the modern age.

I will gladly break out my torch and pitchfork against this abomination.

[Blackhawk748]

Spoiler: The turned into a wall o' text. Also, very, VERY minor spoilers for Lost Stars. I really dont even consider it a spoiler, tbh.

Show

Writing style: I'd misspoke earlier when I said it was in first person. It's in present tense, which I think is worse. There are many, many short asides, so many that it honestly seemed like a fourteen-year-old wrote it. Same for parentheses.

Story: speaking of, the main protagonist is a fourteen-year-old. He teams up with his mom, a former imperial spy, a bounty hunter who is just the coolest and I know that because I'm barely paraphrasing from the text, and I don't even remember who the last guy was other than he and the bounty hunter made out angrily a lot and then he died. Oh, and the fourteen-year-old has an old battle droid - the really dumb, annoying ones - that he made into a super assassin droid and also provides comic relief, or as close to it as the book gets.

Anyway, they manage to meet and befriend most major movie characters, like Leia, Mon Mothma, Han, etc. The difference between these characters meeting and befriending them vs all other authors original characters meeting and befriending them is in all the other stories, the big names were the main characters, so they will obviously meet other people in their adventures. In Aftermath, though, oh hey there's Princess Leia she's hiring us to rescue Han Solo we are the COOLEST PEOPLE EVER. It's as if Wendig thought he had to toss them in to add legitimacy to his books.

They also manage to become archenemies of the head of the Empire, because again, they're just the coolest people ever. Unless they meet the most important players on both sides, they dont matter. Or so the Chuck seems to think.

In the second book, IIRC, there are a bunch of cutaways to completely new, different groups of people who have no relevance to the story and never show up again. If their purpose was to foreshadow or highlight or parallel anything in the story, I never got that. Just useless barely-vignettes of random people scattered throughout that never amount to anything. One refers to a pirate captain referred to as he, she, and xir; my dislike of non standardized pronouns aside, that character was in one of the random, pointless vignettes of brand new, unrelated people who never show up again. If they were a part of the main story, that'd be fine by all the people it was fine by to begin with and would trigger all the people it triggered to begin with, but its thrown in just to be immediately thrown right back out. It may as well have been in the shape of a shoehorn; it added zero weight or characterization to the story, and managed to be about the only way to introduce a character like that in a way that I'll gripe about. If you removed the vignettes, the story would be exactly the same with no change.*

The whole thing was also built up as a journey to Episode VII, while it was really just a few people's personal stories that had jack all to do with the transition between episodes. Books like Bloodlines (which was great, btw) did that much better. Hell, Lost Stars was basically Romeo and Juliet in Star Wars (I really don't consider that a spoiler, it's effectively the write-up on the back cover), and that did a better job of bridging the Episodes. To be fair here, Lost Stars is one of, if not the, best new canon books hands down. Still, though, Romeo and Juliet In Space shouldn't do a better job of bridging the Episodes than the actual series that was supposed to bridge the Episodes.


*This paragraph I may be wrong about, because by the time I got to these, I was mostly checked out and was just trying to hit the highlights, because I'd already wasted the money on the damn things. The vignettes could possibly have actual relevance to the story, and if they do, I expect someone to correct me. I welcome that, as it would make the books better. Inasmuch as I'll stop wondering how a supposedly competent author and a supposedly competent editor managed to screw up so colossally.

Admittedly, I may have slightly exaggerated a couple of issues I have, but you get the idea.

Wait...Aftermath had actual novels and not just comics? Cuz i know of Aftermath from the comics cuz thats where Mr.Bones (the droid) is from, and fom what i understand the comics where ok.

present tense?

Who the FRELL writes in present tense?? I didn't even write in present tense when i started writing crappy short stories in 4th grade!

[Peelee]

Wait...Aftermath had actual novels and not just comics?

Wait...Aftermath had actual comics and not just novels?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I think they would be significantly better in comic form. No present tense and no constant stream of "clever" asides that end up with a entire pages of no paragraphs over two sentences would greatly improve it.

[russdm]

Who even AUTHORISES that?

Disney, and Lucasfilm did, three times (or authorized 3 books). There can be no description of what they were smoking to have done, especially with the reaction the first book got.

[Blackhawk748]

Wait...Aftermath had actual comics and not just novels?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I think they would be significantly better in comic form. No present tense and no constant stream of "clever" asides that end up with a entire pages of no paragraphs over two sentences would greatly improve it.

*cries in author* Who is this person and how did literature hurt them to make them write a book this badly constructed??

Disney, and Lucasfilm did, three times (or authorized 3 books). There can be no description of what they were smoking to have done, especially with the reaction the first book got.

Was their crack pipe heated by the sun??

[Sapphire Guard]

So, who's up for chapter by chapter Aftermath trilogy? ;)

[Peelee]

So, who's up for chapter by chapter Aftermath trilogy? ;)

[pendell]

The main thing that I have always been curious or wondered about is why exactly does all of Thrawn's people have blue skin and red eyes, plus black hair. They tried to explain as something oxygen related or light related, but I can't recall what the different actual reasons were.

Or how they ended up with their philosophy being what it was. Or how their culture ended up. It's a bit strange and I don't recall if Zahn or his less capable writers ever explained the Chiss.

To be honest, I think I would enjoy seeing Zahn's Thrawn trilogy onscreen and fixed up to be canon, rather than the dreck of Aftermath books that we got. They hyped those books and we got cat dung soup in exchange. What a ripoff.

+1. I would trade ALL the prequels and the sequels for the thrawn trilogy on screen by a really good director. Who, though?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Jallorn]

+1. I would trade ALL the prequels and the sequels for the thrawn trilogy on screen by a really good director. Who, though?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Yeah, I was seriously hopeful that the ST would be Thrawn. Finding out it wasn't was probably the first nail in the coffin, honestly.

[Blackhawk748]

So, who's up for chapter by chapter Aftermath trilogy? ;)

On the one hand i kind of want to see how truly awful this thing is. On the other hand i don't want to go mad, have my spine rip out of my back because of cringe, and then stab my eyes out because of secondhand terrible formatting.

So its a wash for me.

Yeah, I was seriously hopeful that the ST would be Thrawn. Finding out it wasn't was probably the first nail in the coffin, honestly.

Ya, when i found out they were throwing away all of the lore i was rather pissed, particularly because of the loss of Thrawn.

[Peelee]

On the one hand i kind of want to see how truly awful this thing is. On the other hand i don't want to go mad, have my spine rip out of my back because of cringe, and then stab my eyes out because of secondhand terrible formatting.

So its a wash for me.

See, that's the beauty of it. We don't have to read it, Sapphire Guard would. No having to deal with present tense Star Wars book, no having to read every painful aside, no having to groan at how Mr. Bones is wildly hypercompetent or decides it would be a good time to start dancing randomly. Nothing but seeing Sapphire Guard react to it, give us the story summary, and interject their thoughts.

Truly, it would be the best way to get the Aftermath story for those who haven't had it. Or even those who have, and repressed it for the other writing sins.

[Blackhawk748]

See, that's the beauty of it. We don't have to read it, Sapphire Guard would. No having to deal with present tense Star Wars book, no having to read every painful aside, no having to groan at how Mr. Bones is wildly hypercompetent or decides it would be a good time to start dancing randomly. Nothing but seeing Sapphire Guard react to it, give us the story summary, and interject their thoughts.

Truly, it would be the best way to get the Aftermath story for those who haven't had it. Or even those who have, and repressed it for the other writing sins.

I know, all of those are symptoms from secondhand exposure.

[russdm]

+1. I would trade ALL the prequels and the sequels for the thrawn trilogy on screen by a really good director. Who, though?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I am really feeling maybe Ron Howard. He did Apollo 13, a few other movies, and of course, Solo. So he seems good for it.

Joss Whedon is a maybe, if he goes more of an avengers/fireflyserenty vide then Buffy/Angel vibe.

Guy Ritchie, who did the Robert Downy Jr Sherlock Holmes movies, might be a good pick

Definitely not Courtney Solomon (Did the First D&D movie), Definitely not Uwe Boll.

[Blackhawk748]

I am really feeling maybe Ron Howard. He did Apollo 13, a few other movies, and of course, Solo. So he seems good for it.

Joss Whedon is a maybe, if he goes more of an avengers/fireflyserenty vide then Buffy/Angel vibe.

Guy Ritchie, who did the Robert Downy Jr Sherlock Holmes movies, might be a good pick

Definitely not Courtney Solomon (Did the First D&D movie), Definitely not Uwe Boll.

Id toss Ronald Maxwell in the ring. He did Gettysburg and that movie was phenomenal.

[Peelee]

I think Solo would have been epic if they'd let Shane Black take the wheel on both writing and directing.

[Cikomyr]

I am really feeling maybe Ron Howard. He did Apollo 13, a few other movies, and of course, Solo. So he seems good for it.

Joss Whedon is a maybe, if he goes more of an avengers/fireflyserenty vide then Buffy/Angel vibe.

Guy Ritchie, who did the Robert Downy Jr Sherlock Holmes movies, might be a good pick

Definitely not Courtney Solomon (Did the First D&D movie), Definitely not Uwe Boll.

Giving Star Wars to James Gunn would be a perfect rebound/apology move from Disney after their latest **** move

[Fyraltari]

This is true, but the only two fandoms I can think of that have alleged fans openly antagonistic to the franchise they allegedly enjoy are Star Wars fans and Sonic the Hedgehog fans.

Not a Dr. Who fan, I reckon?

[Keltest]

Not a Dr. Who fan, I reckon?

The only Whovians I have actually run into have all been well meaning lunatics.

I acknowledge that every fandom has a fandumb, but this is mostly about groups where when somebody goes "star wars fan" my reaction is "but why would they call themselves a fan if they hated it?" instead of "they probably like it overall".

[Cikomyr]

The only Whovians I have actually run into have all been well meaning lunatics.

I acknowledge that every fandom has a fandumb, but this is mostly about groups where when somebody goes "star wars fan" my reaction is "but why would they call themselves a fan if they hated it?" instead of "they probably like it overall".

Have you recently looked at a Star Trek thread?

[Peelee]

The only Whovians I have actually run into have all been well meaning lunatics.

Same here, but by that same token I could say the same for Star Wars fans. The bat**** insane ones I've only ever heard about from the media. Then again, I suppose my anti-con lifestyle helps that...

[Keltest]

Same here, but by that same token I could say the same for Star Wars fans. The bat**** insane ones I've only ever heard about from the media. Then again, I suppose my anti-con lifestyle helps that...

There was, to my misfortune, a period of time, when I was young(er) and stupid(er), where I decided I wanted to interact with groups of people who called themselves Star Wars fans.

That was a mistake. Individuals are largely ok, groups embrace the circle jerk. Avoid groups claiming to be based around being Star Wars fans. Its not worth it.

[Peelee]

There was, to my misfortune, a period of time, when I was young(er) and stupid(er), where I decided I wanted to interact with groups of people who called themselves Star Wars fans.

That was a mistake. Individuals are largely ok, groups embrace the circle jerk. Avoid groups claiming to be based around being Star Wars fans. Its not worth it.

I know the whole "specific beats general" principal always applies, by I still feel like I should give a shout out to the 501st Legion. I'm probably the most critical guy in our garrison. The group is almost entirely composed of good people doing good things, silly internal politics aside.