An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower

[lord_khaine]

Their combat prowess is quite deserving of the Aielf view, though. I'm not sure exactly when this bit of background is revealed so this might be a very minor spoiler, but when an invasion by them gets opposed by an alliance of most of the major nations on the continent and still ends only when they accomplish what they came to do and voluntarily go back home, that's a bit extreme.

It is perhaps a little annoying. Since by all right light skirmishers like Aiel should get squashed in a direct contest with heavy infantry. Not dominate them like if they actually wore armor.
But i guess it is a rather common fantasy trope that armor is generally ignored.

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 34: A Different Dance

The innkeeper drops a juicy piece of gossip as he shows them to their rooms, the Dragon being proclaimed in Ghealdan. Perrin realizes that Masema must be there spreading the holy word of Rand. Which doesn't speak well for his life expectancy since the government there won't be keen on the rise of yet another Dragon and certainly doesn't like people to announce the coming of one. And that's if Moiraine doesn't get to him first.

They get to their rooms and Loial is very impressed with his. It has a bed made out of sung wood! Not that Perrin cares. All he can think about is the mysterious girl who was staring at him and whether she knows the significance of his yellow eyes. Though I imagine bright yellow eyes would make anyone take notice.

Can anyone go back and tell me if an Aielf in a cage was one of Min's visions? Perrin thinks of her here but I don't recall if she predicted that image. If so then oooh, prophecy!

He goes to Moiraine's room and asks if all the excitement in town is Rand's doing. She doesn't know but she does say that when Lan comes back with more information she'll be making a choice whether to take the road to Tear or go by ship, depending on which way Lan thinks Rand went. Considering that they haven't caught him yet despite having an expert tracker and plenty of leads to follow, I'm guessing the Pattern has already dictated they won't intercept him before he reaches Tear. Nothing is gonna keep Rand from getting to Callandor. It's on the cover of the book after all, so it's already a done deal as far as I'm concerned. Covers aren't always accurate, but that would be a pretty big lie to put on the front of the book.

Perrin tells Moiraine about the girl and she blows it off as him just being handsome so of course girls are going to look at him.

He leaves the inn and goes out to Aielf in the cage. To his surprise, the cage meant to hold the fearsome enemy Aielf is shoddy piece of crap, with a lock on a chain made of cheap metal. Perrin jams the spike of his axe into the weakest link and with a single twist the cage is unlocked. The Aiel asks why he let him out and Perrin says he doesn't like seeing people in cages. I guess police work is not in Perrin's future then.

The Aielf's name is Gaul, of the Imran sept of the Shaarad Aiel. Also Shae'en Mtaal, a Stone Dog, which I assume means something. Let's see, Shaarad must be the region he comes from, and the Imran sept has to be his clan name, as it's used in Ireland. I imagine the Stone Dogs are a group of warriors and Shae'en Mtaal is possibly the name or title he was given upon becoming a Stone Dog. He tells Perrin his story. He's come looking for He Who Comes With The Dawn(Rand). Perrin tells him he's going Tear, which surprises Gaul because his people have a prophecy that when the Stone of Tear falls, they will leave the Three-fold Land and be changed, finding again what was theirs and was lost.

Suddenly, a dozen Whitecloaks come running in and attack them. Now, lets talk tactics here. On one side we have twelve men in full armor and armed with longswords, all members of martial order with all the training that goes with it. On the other side we have two men with no armor and only one weapon between them, one of whom has been trapped in a cage with no food or water. Now, who would you say has the advantage in this fight?

Obviously it's the two unarmored men. Come on, this is one of Robert Jordan's Warrior Sues here, going up against Randland's answer to the Keystone Cops. The Children of the Light's big shining moment in the last book was to charge gallantly across a field and then get blown to pieces without coming within three hundred yards of the enemy. Not only do Perrin and Gaul win the fight, they win it easily. Bad guys who are actually scary? Who wants that?

And of course we now learn that the obviously false story of how Gaul was captured was false. Instead of twenty Aielves caught off guard, it was two: Gaul and his friend Sarien. Because of course it's only possible to beat an Aielf if you massively outnumber them, have the drop on them, and even you'll still take heavy losses. You see why I hate the Aielves so much? The narrative bends over backwards to make them look badass to the point of lunacy. I can believe that a group of warriors are great fighters. I don't need to see an unarmed man effortlessly kill twelve trained soldiers to get that he's a skilled fighter. I don't need to hear that the massive war in which the other nations allied together to defend against them wasn't even a war from their perspective to buy that these people are powerful. It would be one thing if the other nations were playing up how deadly the Aielves were to keep people vigilant for another war or to make it seem like they were even more valorous to fight off such a fierce enemy, but as far as I can tell the other nations are actually downplaying how dangerous the Aielves are to maintain the illusion that they actually stood a chance against them and keep some semblance of dignity.

Gaul runs off into the night and as Perrin flees the mass murder scene as well, he sees the mysterious girl watching him from the edge of the square, but she turns and vanishes into the shadows.

[The New Bruceski]

It gets clarified more later but if you want help keeping Aiel society straight:

Spoiler

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The Shaarad Aiel is Gaul's tribe/clan. The Imran sept is his hometown, they would all be Shaarad. Stone Dogs could I guess be called a profession or guild, they're not limited to the sept or clan.

[Anteros]

It is perhaps a little annoying. Since by all right light skirmishers like Aiel should get squashed in a direct contest with heavy infantry. Not dominate them like if they actually wore armor.
But i guess it is a rather common fantasy trope that armor is generally ignored.

I think it's more of a Worf thing. They're being built up now so that it's more important when the main protagonist and antagonists go through them like butter later.

[tonberrian]

Point of order: Shae'en Mtaal is Stone Dog in the Old Tongue. It's not a title, all the Aielf thingamaboppers (they have a real name for them, you just haven't seen it yet) have an Old Tongue name and an English name.

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 35: The Falcon

"An Aielman in a cage. A Tuatha'an with a sword. A falcon and a hawk, perching on your shoulders. Both female, I think." That's Min's visions from the beginning of the book. We'll be finding out who the Falcon is in this chapter(the mysterious girl, it has to be) but I wonder who the hawk is? I can't think of any characters with an hawk motif so it's probably someone we've yet to meet which makes prediction impossible at the moment. The fact that they're on each shoulder is reminiscent of the angel/devil metaphor so maybe the two birds will be in competition with each other.


(pictured: Some Wheel of Time role players)

Anyway, Perrin hurries back to the inn with Lan(Lan showed up after the massacre in the last chapter) and runs up to tell Loial that it's time to skip town before anyone ties the dead Whitecloaks to them. The party rushes to the stables and with a quick bribe to the stableman they're off into the night, much to Loial's delight. He's a fan of adventure books and he loves the fact that he's living one out now. They ride down to the wharves and board a ship called the Snow Goose. Just as the ship is about to pull off though, hark!, the mystery girl comes aboard and pays to go as far downriver as Perrin is going.

She comes over to Perrin and tells him she saw the whole thing with Gaul and the Whitecloaks. He asks why she's so interested in him, and she's like, duh, you're obviously part of an adventuring party. You've got an Ogier with you, and a woman who's obviously and Aes Sedai with a Warder. She's interested in Perrin because he's the biggest enigma of them. She knows about Ogier and magic people, but she can't figure out what the deal is with his freaky yellow eyes. She's a hunter after the Horn of Valere and assumes that our heroes must also be after the Horn so she wants to follow them and see if that leads to anything. Her name is Zarine, but she calls herself Mandarb which means which is Old Tongue for blade. Edgelord alert everyone. Perrin laughs at that name because it's the same name as Lan's horse. So she immediately changes it to Faile, which is fitting when you consider that she's looking for a Horn that the heroes already recovered months ago. She tells Perrin that Faile means falcon! Dun-dun-dun! The Prophecy!

[georgie_leech]

The best part about Faile's logic ("you guys seem protaginist-y, I bet you'll run into the Horn at some point") is that she's not wrong. In fact, she's so right that the already found it.

[Douglas]

Faile is actually the most successful of all the Hunters of the Horn - she found the people who found the Horn! None of the others got even that close, with all the people who have had it being major protagonists, Aes Sedai, or major antagonists, not Hunters.

I like Loial's attitude about all of this.

[Traab]

I forget, much like the time between new books the update took so long the details are gone, but the horn is with the aes sedai now right? It came in with matt and his murder dagger? For some reason I cant recall if they kept it or it also went missing and managed to be taken away somehow. But yeah, first she names herself after a horse, now a bird, everything she tries is an epic Faile. Good instincts though.

[An Enemy Spy]

I forget, much like the time between new books the update took so long the details are gone, but the horn is with the aes sedai now right? It came in with matt and his murder dagger? For some reason I cant recall if they kept it or it also went missing and managed to be taken away somehow. But yeah, first she names herself after a horse, now a bird, everything she tries is an epic Faile. Good instincts though.

I believe the Horn is still in the White Tower. Mat's the only one who can use it now which is why they didn't want him to escape. Unless Mat comes back for it or dies then the Horn is for all intents and purposes just a normal horn.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Faile, which is fitting

I definitely thought the same thing at the time. Check the glossary though: it's supposed to be pronounced FIE-EEL, or something...

[Douglas]

Yes, the Horn is locked up in a strong room in the White Tower, alongside their collection of angreal and ter'angreal. It's about as secure as it could reasonably get, the only obvious thing that comes to mind as being even more secure is the permanent wards around Callandor, the Sword on the Cover of this Book.

[Corvus]

I definitely thought the same thing at the time. Check the glossary though: it's supposed to be pronounced FIE-EEL, or something...

I ignore a lot of Jordan's intended pronunciations though cause they really don't make see.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I ignore a lot of Jordan's intended pronunciations though cause they really don't make see.

Oh, me too, me too. They're all terrible.

[georgie_leech]

I ignore a lot of Jordan's intended pronunciations though cause they really don't make see.

Oh, me too, me too. They're all terrible.

They make more sense when you realize you're supposed to pronounce every letter, and that you need to speak with an air of "I speak Latin The Old Tongue and am therefore better than you."

[The New Bruceski]

Yes, the Horn is locked up in a strong room in the White Tower, alongside their collection of angreal and ter'angreal. It's about as secure as it could reasonably get, the only obvious thing that comes to mind as being even more secure is the permanent wards around Callandor, the Sword on the Cover of this Book.

Top Aes Sedai are looking after it. Top. Aes. Sedai.

[An Enemy Spy]

Yes, the Horn is locked up in a strong room in the White Tower, alongside their collection of angreal and ter'angreal. It's about as secure as it could reasonably get, the only obvious thing that comes to mind as being even more secure is the permanent wards around Callandor, the Sword on the Cover of this Book.

So what you're saying is it will definitely be stolen.

[Seerow]

So what you're saying is it will definitely be stolen.

The real question is, do you want that question answered?





Also, really glad to see this coming back. I actually started a reread myself around the time the last couple updates hit... I'm now on like book 7, but I've been looking forward to more of TES's reactions.

[Traab]

So what you're saying is it will definitely be stolen.

Of course not! Its being held in the most secure location on this planet protected by the most talented channelers since the age of legends!

Spoiler

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Pay no attention to the ongoing spy mission team magikarp is on, clearly it means nothing.

Im not even sure why I brought it up really.

[snowblizz]

depending on which way Rand went. Considering that they haven't caught him yet despite having an expert tracker and plenty of leads to follow, I'm guessing the Pattern has already dictated they won't intercept him before he reaches Tear.

They actually comment on that in-story. I won't repeat it for potential spoiler reasons though I woulda thought it has come up already.

The Aielf's name is Gaul, of the Imran sept of the Shaarad Aiel. Also Shae'en Mtaal, a Stone Dog, which I assume means something. Let's see, Shaarad must be the region he comes from, and the Imran sept has to be his clan name, as it's used in Ireland.

Ireland is correct. The Aielf are Irish Amerindian Bedouin Zulus after all.
It's people - clan - sept(tribe) - warrior lodge. You'll find Aiel clan and sept names are about 50/50 in Ye Olde Tongue. So Gaul is an Aiel of the Shaarad clan in the Imran sept (village/town kinda, some septs are spread over several smaller holdings IIRC). His warrior lodge is Stone Dog, warrior lodges as mentioned are inter-Aiel keeping together what would otherwise be rife with clan/tribe war.

On one side we have twelve men in full armor and armed with longswords, all members of martial order with all the training that goes with it.

Come now, you know this is not true. It's twelve armed bullies that have never fought anyone actually trained to fight back. Whitecloaks are soldiers in the same way mall cops are policemen.

They come to a town called Remen, where the subject of interest is an Aielf(or Aiel to those of you who don't remember how I've renamed them. They remind me of how elves are sometimes used in fantasy as a Mary Sue race that is better than humans in every way.) in a cage. He was captured in battle. Astonishing really, that a super special perfect Aielf could possibly be captured by mere westerners. Wouldn't surprise me if he meant to caught. The inkeeper tells them that a group of hunters for the Horn of Valere(how long do these hunts last anyway? Until everyone gets bored and goes home?) and ran into a group of twenty Aielves who they defeated and brought on of back. I don't believe it, not because it's unfeasible that twelve men could surprise twenty and beat them, but because Aielves are oh-so perfect and can never ever lose unless they're up against overwhelming forces. Prove me wrong, Robert Jordan. Also, the supposed heroes, Lord Gann and Lord Orban, are a couple of conceited prigs who would absolutely make up a story about defeating twenty of the mighty Aielves.

The narrative bends over backwards to make them look badass to the point of lunacy. I can believe that a group of warriors are great fighters.

I don't need to hear that the massive war in which the other nations allied together to defend against them wasn't even a war from their perspective to buy that these people are powerful. It would be one thing if the other nations were playing up how deadly the Aielves were to keep people vigilant for another war or to make it seem like they were even more valorous to fight off such a fierce enemy, but as far as I can tell the other nations are actually downplaying how dangerous the Aielves are to maintain the illusion that they actually stood a chance against them and keep some semblance of dignity.

It is perhaps a little annoying. Since by all right light skirmishers like Aiel should get squashed in a direct contest with heavy infantry. Not dominate them like if they actually wore armor.
But i guess it is a rather common fantasy trope that armor is generally ignored.

I can't deny the Aielf are made a big deal of. But it's not undeserved. There some logic to it. The Aielf are ALL the martial barbarians rolled into one. Keep in mind the pinnacle of military accomplishment in the Westlands is a noble in chainmail on a horse waving a sword. The idea to use foot like pikemen and crossbow men is lunacy. It's not entirely far off how similar people IRL saw it. And they ended up badly too.

When I only look on it from the in-story perspective it works better.
Basically, most Westland armies are nowhere near being actually professional armies. They are noble retinues at best. The Seanchan also rolls over them, and not just because magic.

If someone tried to make a reasonably real-wolrd inspried army they'd do well in Randland.

Spoiler

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And if you were just a bit lucky, that'd be great too.

Their combat prowess is quite deserving of the Aielf view, though. I'm not sure exactly when this bit of background is revealed so this might be a very minor spoiler, but when an invasion by them gets opposed by an alliance of most of the major nations on the continent and still ends only when they accomplish what they came to do and voluntarily go back home, that's a bit extreme.

Keep in mind this was an alliance mostly in name (they even took turns with command) and a large part of those fighting had never fought anything like the Aiel. It's British vs Zulus but the British don't have breechloading rifles. As a warrior culture the Aiel are able to raise their entire nations as warriors whereas the Westlands had sort-of professional soldiers. In the Westlands only the Borderlanders have a comparably "militarized" society. Most wars are fought with armies of thousands. It's a bit like the Roman empire vs the barbarians. A legion isn't gonan help much, no matter how well equipped when they are combaitng a people. This is where the inspiration draws from too.
The Aiel much like the Mongols have strategic mobility. It's not one big fight, but countless smaller ones where fieldcraft, ambush and gerilla tactics matter. And it's not like there isn't huge casualties on the Aiel side, they tend to die in droves in a stand up fight. It just doesn't bother them much. And they don't fight those if they can avoid it.
Those who know how to fight Aiel, Lan and Ingtar among them, I think are often speaking from the perspective of trying with what they have and not what would be best. Basically, if it was a tournament with toysoldiers you could pick a good set of troops to fight Aiel, it's just that in Randland they seldom have that option.

That said I can't ignore the fact that it does come over as super Mary Sueish often (truithfully the Mary Sueish of all is probably the Two Rivers), in part becasue he's piled so many tropes on them. If
Then again, so was the British Redcoat until the american revolutionary war. Believable war is difficult.

[Ashen Lilies]

Spoiler

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Is no one going to comment on the fact that, as far as I remember, the Horn of Valere actually doesn't get stolen all the way up until the Last Battle itself, as it's leaving the White Tower?

Fain does manage to manage to steal the dagger back, but he can't take the Horn with him.

[Otomodachi]

Chapter 35: The Falcon

...but I wonder who the eagle HAWK is? I can't think of any characters with an eagle HAWK motif so it's probably someone we've yet to meet which makes prediction impossible at the moment.

Hawk, buddy, hawk. :)

Spoiler: Vague hint

Show

The Hawk has been mentioned, but has not appeared yet. There IS a Hawk that has been repeatedly mentioned in this book, although that's not quite the bird we've been looking for...

[Ninja_Prawn]

Spoiler

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Is no one going to comment on the fact that, as far as I remember, the Horn of Valere actually doesn't get stolen all the way up until the Last Battle itself, as it's leaving the White Tower?

I kind of thought that was the joke? And, like, commenting on it would stop it from being funny?

[Sapphire Guard]

I ignore a lot of Jordan's intended pronunciations though cause they really don't make see.

Thinga are pronounced differently in different languages, it's hard to know what makes sense and what doesn't.

Honestly, I wish the Whitecloaks were portrayed as more dangerous.

[An Enemy Spy]

Hawk, buddy, hawk. :)

Whoops, that's embarrassing. I mean, what do you mean? My post has clearly said hawk the whole time and hasn't been altered in anyway from its original form.

[Anteros]

Whoops, that's embarrassing. I mean, what do you mean? My post has clearly said hawk the whole time and hasn't been altered in anyway from its original form.

Darn alternate timelines.

[Sivarias]

whoops, that's embarrassing. I mean, what do you mean? My post has clearly said hawk the whole time and hasn't been altered in anyway from its original form.

HE'S BACK! THE LIGHTGIVER!

ALL HAIL THE BAZOOKA SHARK!

In all seriousness man, glad your continuing to continue on. We missed you.

[dps]

They actually comment on that in-story. I won't repeat it for potential spoiler reasons though I woulda thought it has come up already.


Ireland is correct. The Aielf are Irish Amerindian Bedouin Zulus after all.
It's people - clan - sept(tribe) - warrior lodge. You'll find Aiel clan and sept names are about 50/50 in Ye Olde Tongue. So Gaul is an Aiel of the Shaarad clan in the Imran sept (village/town kinda, some septs are spread over several smaller holdings IIRC). His warrior lodge is Stone Dog, warrior lodges as mentioned are inter-Aiel keeping together what would otherwise be rife with clan/tribe war.


Come now, you know this is not true. It's twelve armed bullies that have never fought anyone actually trained to fight back. Whitecloaks are soldiers in the same way mall cops are policemen.




I can't deny the Aielf are made a big deal of. But it's not undeserved. There some logic to it. The Aielf are ALL the martial barbarians rolled into one. Keep in mind the pinnacle of military accomplishment in the Westlands is a noble in chainmail on a horse waving a sword. The idea to use foot like pikemen and crossbow men is lunacy. It's not entirely far off how similar people IRL saw it. And they ended up badly too.

When I only look on it from the in-story perspective it works better.
Basically, most Westland armies are nowhere near being actually professional armies. They are noble retinues at best. The Seanchan also rolls over them, and not just because magic.

If someone tried to make a reasonably real-wolrd inspried army they'd do well in Randland.

Spoiler

Show

And if you were just a bit lucky, that'd be great too.

Keep in mind this was an alliance mostly in name (they even took turns with command) and a large part of those fighting had never fought anything like the Aiel. It's British vs Zulus but the British don't have breechloading rifles. As a warrior culture the Aiel are able to raise their entire nations as warriors whereas the Westlands had sort-of professional soldiers. In the Westlands only the Borderlanders have a comparably "militarized" society. Most wars are fought with armies of thousands. It's a bit like the Roman empire vs the barbarians. A legion isn't gonan help much, no matter how well equipped when they are combaitng a people. This is where the inspiration draws from too.
The Aiel much like the Mongols have strategic mobility. It's not one big fight, but countless smaller ones where fieldcraft, ambush and gerilla tactics matter. And it's not like there isn't huge casualties on the Aiel side, they tend to die in droves in a stand up fight. It just doesn't bother them much. And they don't fight those if they can avoid it.
Those who know how to fight Aiel, Lan and Ingtar among them, I think are often speaking from the perspective of trying with what they have and not what would be best. Basically, if it was a tournament with toysoldiers you could pick a good set of troops to fight Aiel, it's just that in Randland they seldom have that option.

That said I can't ignore the fact that it does come over as super Mary Sueish often (truithfully the Mary Sueish of all is probably the Two Rivers), in part becasue he's piled so many tropes on them. If
Then again, so was the British Redcoat until the american revolutionary war. Believable war is difficult.

The problem with comparing the Aiel with the Mongols is that the Mongols were mounted warriors; their horsemanship was what granted them both their strategic mobility and much of their battlefield prowess. The Aiel are foot soldiers; I can buy them as superb light infantry but they should be at a disadvantage against heavy infantry or cavalry unless they have a large numeric advantage.

[Seerow]

Spoiler

Show

Is no one going to comment on the fact that, as far as I remember, the Horn of Valere actually doesn't get stolen all the way up until the Last Battle itself, as it's leaving the White Tower?

Fain does manage to manage to steal the dagger back, but he can't take the Horn with him.

Spoiler

Show

As mentioned that's part of what some of us were already hinting at... but beyond that, there's the funny irony that the only reason the Horn doesn't get stolen from the tower is because Aes Sedai plotting/secrecy makes it so that after Siuan is deposed in... book 4 I think? I know when I encountered it, I thought it was way earlier than I remembered. But regardless, from that minute on, there isn't a single person in the tower who knows it is in the tower. The forsaken don't know it's in the tower. The black aja don't know it's there. Even Elaida, the new Amyrlin, has no idea she's standing guard over the Horn of Valere.

It's honestly one of the most hilarious parts of the story in my opinion when you stop to think about it. The best defense in the entire world isn't wards or guards or an entire tower with hundreds of casters... it's the fact that nobody in the story talks to each other, making the horn effectively lost again despite having been found. It's not until someone who knows is back in the tower, and official orders start getting written up about how to move it covertly that it ends up getting stolen

[Adderbane]

The problem with comparing the Aiel with the Mongols is that the Mongols were mounted warriors; their horsemanship was what granted them both their strategic mobility and much of their battlefield prowess. The Aiel are foot soldiers; I can buy them as superb light infantry but they should be at a disadvantage against heavy infantry or cavalry unless they have a large numeric advantage.

One of the big points made about the Aiel is they are fast. Perhaps that's a bit Mary Sueish on it's own, but I wouldn't consider them to be mere foot soldiers, even if they're not as fast as true calvary.

Spoiler

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A lot of the times they come to grips with wetland armies that are well led they tend to take heavy casualties.