Healing Spirit out of curve?

[Potato_Priest]

So, druids simply can't have nice things in terms of healing?

That said, 5 feet square in size and the target to be healed must be within that square – not just adjacent to it – seems hardly overpowered to me. In or out of combat.

Out of combat everyone can just run through the square and then back in in the next 6 seconds, making a little overpowered rig-around-the-rosies game.

[Dalebert]

Are you going to tell me that a bunch of adventurers sitting around in a circle for one minute waiting for their HP to top off is a fast paced situation?

I'll tell you that because it obviously is. Whenever there is a time-sensitive situation of a minute or less, initiative and turns are called for, and that doesn't preclude the possibility of situations involving more than a minute.

"Guys, this spirit is only here for one minute! Get as much healing as you can!"

I agree that for a short time in tier 1 and maaaaaybe early tier 2, healing potions are more precious. A 2nd level slot is also very precious in those times. So that short time is the only time I would consider using this for ooc healing. I also don't give a flip as a DM if the party is willing to blow a 2nd level slot to heal up after combat.

[JellyPooga]

I simply don't see the issue. A 2nd level spell slot is a valuable resource; that's one less Heat Metal, Hold Person, Enhance Ability, Moonbeam, Pass Without Trace or Spike Growth. For the sake of healing the whole party for about 30hp? Much of which may be wasted on lower level characters. 2nd level has some real game-changer spells and this? This is not one of them.

Is it better than other healing spells? Out of combat, yeah, maybe. Is it going to win an encounter for you? Probably not. It's a nice luxury to "top off" your hp between encounters, but when it costs the same as skipping the next encounter entirely (PWT), for example, it's a cost that's simply not worth the value you get.

[Contrast]

It doesn't work outside of combat.
It requires a creature to begin its turn inside of it. There are no turns outside of combat, so it does nothing, because the healing cannot be triggered.
It's an in-combat HoT.
That's the RAW. Do with that as you see fit. But by RAW it does nothing outside of combat because turns don't exist outside of combat.

Prayer of Healing is the out-of-combat Heal.

This logic sort of works in game terms until anyone tries to cast any spell or use any ability which have defined action, bonus action, reaction casting times outside of combat. It also breaks in purely out of game logic terms.

Would you rule that casting haste on someone would achieve nothing in a 100m race because they weren't in combat and hence can't use the extra action to dash and only get to use their overland movement speed? If a 100m race takes place in structured time, why doesn't my racing back and forth to get as much healing as I can.

I would prefer a DM to tell me they're changing the spell than I can't use it in accordance with the spell description without punching a random passer by.

[agnos]

You guys are really downplaying how good this spell is in combat. Yes the out of combat healing is absolutely silly and especially so with Life Cleric making it 1d6+4. In combat this is a peremptory Healing Word. If someone is at 0, then they will be healed at the start of their turn and able to act. It lets you “pre-cast” a heal that you can move as necessary. The downside is that people can die before it will activate, but that’s not likely something you can usually prevent regardless. Let’s also compare it to Aura of Vitality which costs and action to cast and bonus actions to use; this is a bonus action to cast, a bonus action to use, and no action to activate. It’s far more action efficient.

[LeonBH]

I agree with agnos. This spell is better than Healing Word. It's better than Heroism. For one 2nd level slot, anyone can heal by just moving through a space.

Healing is not cost efficient because you're sacrificing your action economy and resources to reset the board to a previous state. You lose in the long run.

Well, now you can heal without actions, bonus actions, or even reactions. Imagine two spirits in adjacent squares for 2d6 healing per turn. Imagine the Battlemaster Fighter's Maneuvering Strike affording someone extra healing out of turn.

Imagine locking down the BBEG in place with grapples, and then moving into that space after the hit. A Goliath uses their reaction to reduce damage by 1d12+CON. Give this spell 3 rounds, and it can give everyone roughly the same benefits.

It blows because of concentration, thus precluding any concentration buffs in favor of healing (Enhance Ability: Cat's Grace). But I've done a kind-of-similar setup with a cool DM and Phantasmal Force. It saved us big time.

This is a strong spell.

[tsotate]

Default is that time is only tracked in Turns during combat (or in fast paced situations).

Fast-paced situations, such as having to cycle six people efficiently through the same space ten times each before the spell ends.

[Parra]

lets not forget that a clever BBEG or his minions can use it too in-combat, as in use the one the PC's cast.

[Knaight]

In combat this just means that we now have healing that isn't either basically useless or predicated on a somewhat ridiculous down-revive cycle. That's not a bad thing.

Out of combat I come down more on it being iffy, particularly once 2nd level spell slots stop being worth much.

[Jethro]

lets not forget that a clever BBEG or his minions can use it too in-combat, as in use the one the PC's cast.

Not quite. The spell says:

"Until the spell ends, whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirit's space for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, YOU can cause the spirit to restore 1d6 hit points to that creature (no action required).

It doesn't work unless you want it to work.

On topic: This spell is bonkers good. WAY better in combat than out imo. Just place it under your tank and he/she is constantly healing. Up cast for serious healing. Concentration is the only real limitation. This spell alone makes Druids and support Bards stronger. Definitely the strongest spell in Xanathar's. I fully expect it to be nerfed in some way, but I also don't see it as game-breaking.

[Easy_Lee]

lets not forget that a clever BBEG or his minions can use it too in-combat, as in use the one the PC's cast.

No, the caster decides to heal the target, no action required. Can't use without the caster's permission.

[Zejety]

Mearls has doubled down on it on Twitter but I still have my doubts about this being originally intended.
I will likely houserule is to have 10 charges for now. But I feel like I can be convinced otherwise.

[DarkKnightJin]

I simply don't see the issue. A 2nd level spell slot is a valuable resource; that's one less Heat Metal, Hold Person, Enhance Ability, Moonbeam, Pass Without Trace or Spike Growth. For the sake of healing the whole party for about 30hp? Much of which may be wasted on lower level characters. 2nd level has some real game-changer spells and this? This is not one of them.

Is it better than other healing spells? Out of combat, yeah, maybe. Is it going to win an encounter for you? Probably not. It's a nice luxury to "top off" your hp between encounters, but when it costs the same as skipping the next encounter entirely (PWT), for example, it's a cost that's simply not worth the value you get.

I'm with you in this. It's in the same boat as Prayer of Healing, basically. Looks nice on paper, but hardly ever worth it in practice.

[LeonBH]

To throw my opinion in the pile, this is power creep on the healing classes' end. It is way above the power curve among healing spells of its level.

[DivisibleByZero]

Fast-paced situations, such as having to cycle six people efficiently through the same space ten times each before the spell ends.

Once again, if you consider a bunch of adventurers standing around waiting for their moment to hop in and hop out a "fast paced situation" then more power to you.
Many upon many people will disagree, and will not be allowing this outside of combat at all. I am one of those people. Mainly because any spell which makes the party Ranger a better out of combat healer than the party's dedicated healer is a bad spell.

[PhoenixPhyre]

It's restricted to druids and rangers, right? No clerics?

Druids already are weaker healers than clerics (especially life clerics) with drastically reduced options (no prayer of healing. Rangers have so few slots that a 2nd level spell is a major investment for them. And if someone wants to dip 3 levels into druid for this...they're already giving up a whole lot (even as a cleric). I'm fine with it.

[Vaz]

Once again, if you consider a bunch of adventurers standing around waiting for their moment to hop in and hop out a "fast paced situation" then more power to you.
Many upon many people will disagree, and will not be allowing this outside of combat at all. I am one of those people. Mainly because any spell which makes the party Ranger a better out of combat healer than the party's dedicated healer is a bad spell.

Grapple a rat. Or cast it in the closing stages of monopoly.

[DivisibleByZero]

Grapple a rat.

I don't know about a rule referring to a bag of rats, but my ruling is to just drop rocks on anyone attempting to justify anything via a bag of rats.

Or cast it in the closing stages of monopoly.

Well obviously that would be in combat.

[Aett_Thorn]

Well obviously that would be in combat.

In combat, but basically the same as out-of-combat. If you're in no danger of taking any damage (the rat in a bag scenario), but have 'initiated' combat, then what difference is that from just being out of combat?

You're basically attributing a house rule (that people don't have the equivalent of turns outside of combat, which is ridiculous when you boil it down) and saying that by RAW, this spell isn't that good. Even though it really is when you apply any sort of logic to it.

Yes, it is using a second-level spell slot, which matters a bit in the low-level game. But at higher levels, this gets even better, because you're likely not wasting HPs of healing potential, and it can be upcast. Even if you require actual combat, and not the bag of rats scenario, then two players can just shoot each other with a blowgun, doing 1 damage per turn and ensuring that they get at least that much back. If there's an easy way to exploit it, I would say that you're just intentionally placing a burden on it that doesn't need to exist.

[Joe the Rat]

In combat, it's a reverse Moonbeam. Out of combat... it has some issues.

Let's look at by use.

Prayer of healing (using an assumed +4 castmod) is giving 13*6 = 78 hp "max" average, or 65 hp to the more typical Party of Five. It's good in comparison to an upcast cure wounds out of combat - take 10 minutes, cast up to six simultaneous cure wounds over range.

Aura of vitality is doling out 70hp in 2d6 packets on your turn to anyone in range - slightly more flexibility in combat targeting. Fair for noncombat (70 over a minute), but an upcast Prayer of Healing meets or beats on a party of 4 or more. (3d8+stat*party (17.5*party), party of 4=70 average). However you can dole out to more individuals, or focus Aura to give more to those who need more. Flexibility is part of the point.

Healing Spirit is doling out 1d6*10 rounds healing (35 average) to however many creatures pass through the magic pixie spot on their turns. If you upcast to 3rd, that's 2d6*10 rounds - same as Aura! But you can affect as many creatures as can move through home base on their turns.

Out of combat... if we're sticking to turns and rounds, do we stick to space requirements? The Spirit takes up a 5' cube of space, and affects creatures that move into it on their turn, or start their turn there. So for that 35-a-head healing, everybody has to run in and out of the space for a minute. That's going to be a lot of leaping the Beltane fire the party has to do to give heals to everyone. At the very least, your party looks ridiculous while trying to cheese it out.

Looking at the numbers, I suspect that devs ballparked this with the assumption that most rounds only one creature would benefit from the Spirit. If you want to bring it in line with the other spells for out of combat, here's an easy tweak: Out of combat, only one creature can benefit per round six second interval. That puts it on the same heal rate as Aura of Vitality (if you upcast to 3) which is not a horrible crime against the universe.

[DivisibleByZero]

In combat, but basically the same as out-of-combat. If you're in no danger of taking any damage (the rat in a bag scenario), but have 'initiated' combat, then what difference is that from just being out of combat?

That was in reference to the monopoly statement.
His remark was clearly a jest, as was my response.

The rat thing: Rocks fall. You don't get to game the system like that at my table. If you pull out a bag of rats in an attempt to justify ANYTHING, rocks fall.

[Talamare]

Mearls has doubled down on it on Twitter but I still have my doubts about this being originally intended.
I will likely houserule is to have 10 charges for now. But I feel like I can be convinced otherwise.

10 Charges, I like that. That's probably the best solution

Another option that isn't as good is to maybe make it cost the Caster's Reaction

[Easy_Lee]

Players can just squeeze together and stand within the same 5 foot cube. Can't do that in combat but it'd be weird not to be able to do it outside of combat.

Or, like I said, just make a gnome totem pole. Gnotem pole!

[CantigThimble]

Also, Prayer of Healing is ass. Always has been. My almost tier 4 cleric has never prepared it. It's clearly for ooc which is not worth spell slots. I'd say that's a poor comparison to gauge power level.

Prayer of healing is basically 2 extra hit dice for your whole party. It's by far the most efficient healing per spell slot if you get the chance to use it. Has your party never run out of hit dice before?

[Talamare]

Players can just squeeze together and stand within the same 5 foot cube. Can't do that in combat but it'd be weird not to be able to do it outside of combat.

Or, like I said, just make a gnome totem pole. Gnotem pole!

Everyone gets on a Cart
Have the active Turn player push the Cart and himself thru it
Then he jumps onto the Cart

Next player does the same

# of Player * 10 * d6

~210 Healing per cast (with 6 people)

edit
210 Healing per cast... PER PLAYER
1260 Healing Total

[Joe the Rat]

Doesn't work. You only get the heal (caster permitting) if you start/enter on your turn - essentially once per round per creature, max.

[Talamare]

Doesn't work. You only get the heal (caster permitting) if you start/enter on your turn - essentially once per round per creature, max.

Assuming the quote from the first page is correct...

Until the spell ends, whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirits space for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, you can cause the spirit to restore 1d6 hit points to that creature (no action required). The spirit can’t heal constructs or undead.


whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirits space for the first time on a turn

[Easy_Lee]

Assuming the quote from the first page is correct...

Until the spell ends, whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirits space for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, you can cause the spirit to restore 1d6 hit points to that creature (no action required). The spirit can’t heal constructs or undead.


whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirits space for the first time on a turn

Bingo. Can do this with a cart, or with an old-fashioned grapple-ball. Everyone grapples everyone else and drags them through.

[nickl_2000]

Bingo. Can do this with a cart, or with an old-fashioned grapple-ball. Everyone grapples everyone else and drags them through.

At what point does the healing spirit that you summon look at you and say "This is to weird, even for me, I'm out" and poofs before the end of the spell?

[Talamare]

At what point does the healing spirit that you summon look at you and say "This is to weird, even for me, I'm out" and poofs before the end of the spell?

At that point, we go on a murderhobo quest into the spirit world to murder that healing spirit, and find a new one that we keep on a spectral chain