Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

[Rater202]

Isn't it a bit much to feel special solidarity with some beings that can fire beams of energy from their hands and not others, just because they have the label "human" slapped on them? Roshi is more like Goku than he is like me, and the same goes for just about every other named "human."

Fandoms get hung up on silly nonsense all the time. Thus hangup isn't much different, and deserves no special deference.

Still misunderstanding.

It's not about feeling solidarity with fictional characters.

It's about interesting characters not being able to catch up or meaningfully contribute because they're not a super-powered alien.

[Douglas]

and then implanted with the knowledge of using ki as well as ... anti-gravity devices that are what let them fly.

Why would they need both of those? Flight is a standard ki technique.

[Rater202]

Why would they need both of those? Flight is a standard ki technique.

You'll have to ask Toriyama.

Though it's not a standard technique, at least on earth. It's a crane technique that everyone else copied.

Maybe Gero's computers couldn't figure out the floating invisible energy barrier thing Gohan explained to Videl?

[Callos_DeTerran]

...is no one going to talk about how Dr.
Gero apparently developed self-destruct devices capable of cancelling out Jiren's attack?

I mean...it was already super impressive he was able to modify people to the point their power laughably dwarfed the galactic conqueror reigning over the galaxy that he didn't know about and...basically the entire creation of Cell. But this? This the last of the last ditch efforts Gero put in the androids to take out Goku if all else failed and the last time Gero saw Goku was before he left for Namek. And it was able to contend with JIREN. No wonder Cell panicked when 16 said he was going to self-destruct and kill them both, Cell apparently knew how obscenely dangerous the bomb was.

I'm sorry, but the Briefs family is officially dethroned as the 'smartest' people in DBZ. They stand on equal footing.

[Lemmy]

You'll have to ask Toriyama.

At this point, we're much better offer ignoring all of Toriyama's "words of god"...

[Rater202]

...is no one going to talk about how Dr.
Gero apparently developed self-destruct devices capable of cancelling out Jiren's attack?

I mean...it was already super impressive he was able to modify people to the point their power laughably dwarfed the galactic conqueror reigning over the galaxy that he didn't know about and...basically the entire creation of Cell. But this? This the last of the last ditch efforts Gero put in the androids to take out Goku if all else failed and the last time Gero saw Goku was before he left for Namek. And it was able to contend with JIREN. No wonder Cell panicked when 16 said he was going to self-destruct and kill them both, Cell apparently knew how obscenely dangerous the bomb was.

I'm sorry, but the Briefs family is officially dethroned as the 'smartest' people in DBZ. They stand on equal footing.

To be fair, it's possible that the bombs he built are somehow tied to the Android's power level, and 17 has apparently been training during his time on the bus so his power level is much, much higher than it was when he came out of his stasis pod.

But yeah, Gero is bullcrap.

Like, you should play FighterZ. The stuff Gero had made there is just... If you thought Cell was Bad.

Spoiler

Show

Gero's creations in FighterZ include technology able to make mindless clones that instictivly use the power anf techniques of their DNA sources, energy waves that can cancel out one's abillity to use Ki and make them dependant on a soul placed in their body. Technology that can rip souls out of bodies.
Technology that can create artificial souls. Technology that can put souls in people's bodies.

And an eldritch abimination that casually makes Super Perfect Cell look like Saiyan Saga Yamcha and intends to consume all life in the uninverse. Note that this last one is implied to have been accidental.

[Devonix]

The bomb being that powerful really isn't that much of a stretch when you remember that it's hooked up to a device that literally creates Infinite Energy. I wouldn't even want to imagine what that sort of thing would do when it goes critical.

[Lord Raziere]

...is no one going to talk about how Dr.
Gero apparently developed self-destruct devices capable of cancelling out Jiren's attack?

I mean...it was already super impressive he was able to modify people to the point their power laughably dwarfed the galactic conqueror reigning over the galaxy that he didn't know about and...basically the entire creation of Cell. But this? This the last of the last ditch efforts Gero put in the androids to take out Goku if all else failed and the last time Gero saw Goku was before he left for Namek. And it was able to contend with JIREN. No wonder Cell panicked when 16 said he was going to self-destruct and kill them both, Cell apparently knew how obscenely dangerous the bomb was.

I'm sorry, but the Briefs family is officially dethroned as the 'smartest' people in DBZ. They stand on equal footing.

Yeah, thats pretty much Dragon Ball science in a nutshell: all the technology is physics-breakingly dangerous and revolutionary beyond all reason and no one in-universe cares, uses it for anything practical or even bats an eye at it existing.

I mean, this has been happening since the capsules which basically somehow miniaturize things, and the fact that regular Earth just has flying cars. no particular reason why, it just has flying cars. maybe Gero just figured out how to miniaturize the anti-gravity stuff of the flying cars into their feet. or reverse design the gravity chamber from the Brief's ship that Goku took to Namek.

I mean if we're talking impossible, pretty much almost all laws of physics have been broken in Dragon Ball at some point, probably. Its very likely that any accurate model of Dragon Ball physics wouldn't even be a materialist universe like ours since it has souls, you inexplicably get super strong and flare a lightshow because of your emotions, and they communicate telepathically. Dragon Ball physics is probably closer to a Gnostic universe probably.

[Rater202]

Yeah, thats pretty much Dragon Ball science in a nutshell: all the technology is physics-breakingly dangerous and revolutionary beyond all reason and no one in-universe cares, uses it for anything practical or even bats an eye at it existing.

I mean, this has been happening since the capsules which basically somehow miniaturize things, and the fact that regular Earth just has flying cars. no particular reason why, it just has flying cars. maybe Gero just figured out how to miniaturize the anti-gravity stuff of the flying cars into their feet. or reverse design the gravity chamber from the Brief's ship that Goku took to Namek.

I mean if we're talking impossible, pretty much almost all laws of physics have been broken in Dragon Ball at some point, probably. Its very likely that any accurate model of Dragon Ball physics wouldn't even be a materialist universe like ours since it has souls, you inexplicably get super strong and flare a lightshow because of your emotions, and they communicate telepathically. Dragon Ball physics is probably closer to a Gnostic universe probably.

According To Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, the Briefs retroengined their flying car technology from Jaco's ship.

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

and in a secret cutscene you get by leveling up Android 21 in the third Story mode of FighterZ, she mentions that once her evil half has been defeated and she's found a way to cure her hunger, she wants to test the medical aplications of the cell manipuation technology used to create her and Cell, specifically citing a desire to give her healing factor to other people.

So, you know, somebody thinking of practical, world changing aplications of that kind of bullcrap tech.

[Lord Raziere]

According To Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, the Briefs retroengined their flying car technology from Jaco's ship.

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

and in a secret cutscene you get by leveling up Android 21 in the third Story mode of FighterZ, she mentions that once her evil half has been defeated and she's found a way to cure her hunger, she wants to test the medical aplications of the cell manipuation technology used to create her and Cell, specifically citing a desire to give her healing factor to other people.

So, you know, somebody thinking of practical, world changing aplications of that kind of bullcrap tech.

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

Yes, and then she dies no matter the ending, because screw anything mattering,
even though its a non-canon videogame where they could totally give her a happy ending instead of making her die because no matter what her story is not going to impact canon, so whats the point of killing her? Really I just play through that mode for the zennie to get capsules.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

Yes, and then she dies no matter the ending, because screw anything mattering,
even though its a non-canon videogame where they could totally give her a happy ending instead of making her die because no matter what her story is not going to impact canon, so whats the point of killing her? Really I just play through that mode for the zennie to get capsules.

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

Toriyama said he'd make her canon if enough people like her.

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

Toriyama said he'd make her canon if enough people like her.

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

Ouch, hope he isn't reading the internet then. its a hate machine so.....kind of hard to tell. I mean I haven't heard anyone complaining about her yet, so I assume she is being well received, if she wasn't we'd be hearing angry fanboys posting about it across the internet, given how big Dragon Ball is.

that and Toriyama.....isn't all that reliable when it comes to that "remembering whats canon" thing. just ask Launch.

whatever I'm not treating her as canon until we got solid confirmation of some kind. she is really good fanon at best at this point.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Yeah, thats pretty much Dragon Ball science in a nutshell: all the technology is physics-breakingly dangerous and revolutionary beyond all reason and no one in-universe cares, uses it for anything practical or even bats an eye at it existing.

I mean, this has been happening since the capsules which basically somehow miniaturize things, and the fact that regular Earth just has flying cars. no particular reason why, it just has flying cars. maybe Gero just figured out how to miniaturize the anti-gravity stuff of the flying cars into their feet. or reverse design the gravity chamber from the Brief's ship that Goku took to Namek.

I mean if we're talking impossible, pretty much almost all laws of physics have been broken in Dragon Ball at some point, probably. Its very likely that any accurate model of Dragon Ball physics wouldn't even be a materialist universe like ours since it has souls, you inexplicably get super strong and flare a lightshow because of your emotions, and they communicate telepathically. Dragon Ball physics is probably closer to a Gnostic universe probably.

That's not what I meant actually.

I meant Rater was talking about how 17 being able to injure/scuff Jiren was a big deal since he's just an enhanced human is a big deal, and it is, but the entire I was reading that post all I could think was..

That's not the impressive part, the impressive part is the bomb Gero made to handle Saiyan Saga-esque Goku was capable of canceling out Jiren's blast! Cause hot damn, can you even train a bomb? I bet you can't which would imply it was always that strong! Over-compensating a little bit Hero?

Also yeah...

Spoiler: DBFighterZ

Show

that's what you get when you meld whatever passes for Majin Buu's 'DNA' to other people. What did Gero think was going to happen? I don't know how 21 CAN be used in canon with that little tidbit. Also while I like 21 as a concept (haven't gotten to play FighterZ yet) it does sit a bit sour that ArcSystem seems to really like going back to that character archetype so much).

[Lord Raziere]

That's not what I meant actually.

I meant Rater was talking about how 17 being able to injure/scuff Jiren was a big deal since he's just an enhanced human is a big deal, and it is, but the entire I was reading that post all I could think was..

That's not the impressive part, the impressive part is the bomb Gero made to handle Saiyan Saga-esque Goku was capable of canceling out Jiren's blast! Cause hot damn, can you even train a bomb? I bet you can't which would imply it was always that strong! Over-compensating a little bit Hero?

Also yeah...

Spoiler: DBFighterZ

Show

that's what you get when you meld whatever passes for Majin Buu's 'DNA' to other people. What did Gero think was going to happen? I don't know how 21 CAN be used in canon with that little tidbit. Also while I like 21 as a concept (haven't gotten to play FighterZ yet) it does sit a bit sour that ArcSystem seems to really like going back to that character archetype so much).

The answer to that bomb thing is that nothing in Dragon Ball truly makes sense, its all an absurd mish-mash, so who even cares, its Toriyama you'll never get a satisfying answer because you've probably thought it out better than him just by wondering that.

Spoiler: FighterZ

Show

Well yeah,heres the thing: Android 21's dead at the end of her storyline no matter what you do, therefore her being canon is like say Andrew Hussie of Homestuck fame declaring all fantrolls canon because all trolls that aren't Karkat and Kanaya die and stay dead or live after the story ends- a thing he actually did once. Its utterly meaningless, so really nothing of importance actually changed, because she's too dead to affect anything anyways, so its just to appeal to fans.

[Mystic Muse]

...That's the end of Homestuck?

Dear God am I glad I abandoned it.

[Lord Raziere]

...That's the end of Homestuck?

Dear God am I glad I abandoned it.

oh don't worry, all the humans make it. and Calliope

and technically Sollux, Vriska, Terezi and Aradia are still alive but their fate is ambiguous while fighting a giant paradox space and soul destroying abomination of pure toxic dudebro, so......might as well be dead.

[Phexar]

...is no one going to talk about how Dr.
Gero apparently developed self-destruct devices capable of cancelling out Jiren's attack?

I mean...it was already super impressive he was able to modify people to the point their power laughably dwarfed the galactic conqueror reigning over the galaxy that he didn't know about and...basically the entire creation of Cell. But this? This the last of the last ditch efforts Gero put in the androids to take out Goku if all else failed and the last time Gero saw Goku was before he left for Namek. And it was able to contend with JIREN. No wonder Cell panicked when 16 said he was going to self-destruct and kill them both, Cell apparently knew how obscenely dangerous the bomb was.

I'm sorry, but the Briefs family is officially dethroned as the 'smartest' people in DBZ. They stand on equal footing.

It's because those self-destruct devices don't exist anymore. Krillin wished them both out of 17 and 18 when Shenron couldn't grant his wish to turn them fully human.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Android_17

17's life is restored after the Z Fighters use the Dragon Balls to revive those who died as a result of Cell's campaign. A second wish made to Shenron by Krillin removes the Android Bombs within Lapis and Lazuli's bodies. Krillin originally intended to use the wish to turn Android 17 and his sister into humans, but this proves beyond Shenron's power. Krillin did this because he thought 17 and 18 were meant to be a couple, until Android 18 angrily corrected him and revealed that 17 was actually her twin brother.

The wish is made at 1:50 in this clip.

As for how 17 blew himself up, he just did it much in the same way Vegeta did in the previous episode, only he actually died.

[Callos_DeTerran]

It's because those self-destruct devices don't exist anymore. Krillin wished them both out of 17 and 18 when Shenron couldn't grant his wish to turn them fully human.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Android_17





The wish is made at 1:50 in this clip.

As for how 17 blew himself up, he just did it much in the same way Vegeta did in the previous episode, only he actually died.

Aww man, that's not nearly as impressive or as funny, but makes more sense I suppose. Stupid sense.

[Anteros]

It's also possible that he actually did use the bomb and the writers just forgot their own Canon again.

[Lemmy]

It's also possible that he actually did use the bomb and the writers just forgot their own Canon again.

True. Although Toriyama is barely involved in the writing of DBS...

[zimmerwald1915]

Little Old Guy? Kuririn's 31 at that point, that's not old! Isn't it?

[Cizak]

As someone who doesn't watch the full episodes but just highlight clips uploaded on youtube, I legit laughed out loud at Jiren's backstory. Was it supposed to be serious or is it some sort of trope subversion thing where they fully commit to the strongest antagonist being wholly uninteresting as part of his characterization?

[Reddish Mage]

Little Old Guy? Kuririn's 31 at that point, that's not old! Isn't it?

31!? That's older than the villains! In anime terms that's like ancient. Especially for women, if your that age, your just there to be someone's mom. Even women in their 20's already have to contend with being called "old."

How old do you think Bulma is to get constant jokes about her age thrown at her?

[Lord Raziere]

31!? That's older than the villains! In anime terms that's like ancient. Especially for women, if your that age, your just there to be someone's mom. Even women in their 20's already have to contend with being called "old."

How old do you think Bulma is to get constant jokes about her age thrown at her?

Well get ready to call Goku old, because he is 44 as of Universe Survival saga. Vegeta is 48. Yamcha's 47, Krillin is 44, Piccolo is 27, Tien Shinhan is 47, Freeza was over 50 years of age back in Jaco the galactic patrolman (which is set PRE OG-DRAGONBALL, when Goku was 3. so Freeza's real age these days is probably in his 90's.) Bulma is 47, and Puar is 40. Chi-Chi's 43, Hercule is 44 so same year as Krillin and Goku.... the youngest protagonist here is Gohan at age 23. meaning Piccolo despite being his father figure is only 4 years older than him

yeah, Dragon Ball super characters are pretty old "in anime terms."

@ Cizak: yes its supposed to be serious. I personally found it a good example of subverting the hero always winning and gaining friends through the loss and his friends being cowards, but whatever, thats just my opinion.

[Anteros]

Well get ready to call Goku old, because he is 44 as of Universe Survival saga. Vegeta is 48. Yamcha's 47, Krillin is 44, Piccolo is 27, Tien Shinhan is 47, Freeza was over 50 years of age back in Jaco the galactic patrolman (which is set PRE OG-DRAGONBALL, when Goku was 3. so Freeza's real age these days is probably in his 90's.) Bulma is 47, and Puar is 40. Chi-Chi's 43, Hercule is 44 so same year as Krillin and Goku.... the youngest protagonist here is Gohan at age 23. meaning Piccolo despite being his father figure is only 4 years older than him

yeah, Dragon Ball super characters are pretty old "in anime terms."

@ Cizak: yes its supposed to be serious. I personally found it a good example of subverting the hero always winning and gaining friends through the loss and his friends being cowards, but whatever, thats just my opinion.

Right, but Super established that Saiyans don't get old the way humans do, so Goku and Vegeta being "older" is meaningless.

[Lord Raziere]

Right, but Super established that Saiyans don't get old the way humans do, so Goku and Vegeta being "older" is meaningless.

.......whats your point, I was just being touch in cheek towards Reddish.

[Lemmy]

31!? That's older than the villains! In anime terms that's like ancient. Especially for women, if your that age, your just there to be someone's mom. Even women in their 20's already have to contend with being called "old."

How old do you think Bulma is to get constant jokes about her age thrown at her?

TBF, Krillin is about 10 years older than the Androids... And the one making comments about Bulma's age is usually Goku, who A- met her when he was a kid, B- is kinda stupid, C- Probably doesn't keep track of anyone's age, and D- doesn't mean it as an insult. When it isn't Goku, it's usually someone who is annoyed at Bulma and/or trying to insult her. Besides... Bulma is one of the oldest characters in the main cast (other than the really ancient ones, like Muten Roshi). She's only behind Vegeta (who is only 1 year older than her). EDIT: Oh, and maybe Yamcha too.

[Mikeavelli]

Oh, and maybe Yamcha too.

And Yamcha doesn't count.

[The Troubadour]

Meaning that for once, the human race didn't get shafted in favor of the aliens.

Yeah, I'd still have preferred for Krillin and Tien to have had much larger roles than they did.

[zimmerwald1915]

Yeah, I'd still have preferred for Krillin and Tien to have had much larger roles than they did.

Both Tenshinhan and Kuririn are alien-human hybrids. Tenshinhan's descended from the three-eyed people, and Kuririn's descended from the zero-nosed people.

This post contains lies.