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  1. - Top - End - #691
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    On payment, I have no idea how much they're getting paid for anything.
    Their Patron had over three thousand people at one point, minimum monthly pledge was $1 and they kept bragging about how successful it was suggesting they cleared a lot more than the minimum. But even if you go with the current number of backers, 2,778 giving the minimum since May 2015 that's around $91,674. They list nine people as part of their cast but most of them have not actually worked on DBZA, the core cast is KaiserNeko, Lanipator, MasakoX, & Takahata101 while listed staff like Hbi2k simply voices on barely recurring character (Nail) and Megami33 is Bulma. Splitting the money up between the core cast and rounding the roughly $2,400 out for paying the guests each one makes about seven thousand annually off DBZA's Patron alone. They also run ads on their website and I can't say how much that is worth only that worthofweb says the site is worth over 1.2 million dollars.

    The biggest thing is TFS waives Youtube ad revenue on DBZA which helps them avoid legal claims while bragging about how "nonprofit" they are. And that's why it suffers, Penna Powers claims you get about $18 per 1,000 views. So when TFS ran a top twenty four DBZ video game series and averaged somewhere around three hundred thousand hits per video they roughly got paid $129,600 to split up amid the staff that created it. Even split a full nine ways that's $14,400 each and that entire series rolled out within a few months. And their FF7 Machinabridged series averaged twice as many views with and they have a dozen let's plays and several top X lists they create each year. So it's easy to see that while DBZA is a great fan project, imagine being paid seven thousand dollars to make four-to-five redubbed episodes out of someone else's show each year, but it just doesn't bring in as much money as everything else.

    Plus TFS did do things write and their videos do require a lot of post work to make their video even better than the original. The production "cost" on it is higher than any other parody which doesn't work in it's favor in the long run either. The easy revenue else where just makes it a poor investment from a profiteer's standpoint. It created the brand and got you to watch their other stuff, so it's purpose has been fulfilled and the cool fan project they owe everything to has been tossed aside for better business deals.

    They are not the first and they won't be the last. It's simply a standard the business model they ended up operating in.
    Last edited by Mato; 2018-02-22 at 11:42 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #692
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Your number is of by a factor of 10 I think. 300000*24*(18/1000)=129600

  3. - Top - End - #693
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Yes, I'm sure TFS are all making millions of dollars. I'm also positive they're done with DBZA because it's not profitable enough, and they're all a bunch of lazy moneygrubbers. I have no doubts at all that this is very true.
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  4. - Top - End - #694
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Yeah I remember when I used to hang out on the twitch streams most of TFS drives used cars and doesn't live super extravagantly. They're comfortable enough to be considered "successful" to regular people but they aren't fabulously wealthy.

    They have a higher tier youtube channel that at best launches a few videos a month with above average expenses due to format, and another one that they basically have a full team of like five people working on five days a week to make a mid tier lets play channel. They simply aren't getting rich off what they do.

    DBZA may be a comparatively huge time sink but it very much is their bread and butter. Their top gaming series are mostly DragonBall based. Their periphery stuff on the main channel is based around it for like a month of the year straight even when nothing new comes out. It's the lynchpin of the enterprise.

    For KaiserNeko to even be considering ending early basically means there are probably pretty significant things going on that we aren't privy to. They have multiple arcs and six movies left to actually do before they get caught up. At the rate they're going that's 4-5 years of content.
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  5. - Top - End - #695
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Is it weird that between the last year of Super, Fighter Z, and all the most recent Heros stuff that my brain is just boiling with ideas for Dragon Ball OCs and storylines?
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  6. - Top - End - #696
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Is it weird that between the last year of Super, Fighter Z, and all the most recent Heros stuff that my brain is just boiling with ideas for Dragon Ball OCs and storylines?
    Nope.

    Dragon Ball Super, despite all its flaws, has expanded upon the lore and setting by eleven entire universes, a look into how things work at the highest levels of power, and a bunch of characters to go along with it, all of whom will not be expanded upon it if its ending.

    FighterZ has introduced the idea that even Majin Buu can be used in the android science weirdness and has provided a very good, even sympathetic villain to go along with it full of tragedy and various other traits to make her memorable, while providing a lot of dialogue interactions between villains who never met before and thus establishing possible relationships between them.

    while Heroes has its own what ifs and such. I haven't checked into that one much.

    all of this together is a LOT of fanfic fuel. I could probably spend a lot of time just expanding upon and detailing out things about the other Universes that aren't U7 alone.
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  7. - Top - End - #697
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    By the way, new episode of Super out.

    Spoiler: 129
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    And there we have it. Ultra Instinct II Turbo Arcade Edition. I kind of expected Goku's hair to glow more. The whole fusion voice he has going on with it is a bit curious, though.

    So, next time, it's the final showdown. Also Freiza is still MIA. Not dead, not ringed out. Where is he?

  8. - Top - End - #698
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Just thought of something that might be funny: what if it turns out that Zeno's a total glass cannon? Ultimate offensive power, can erase all of existence if he wants to and automatically wins any fight where he gets the first blow, but no clue how to defend himself, no knowledge of how to actually fight, and no special durability, so any decent fighter who surprises him could take him out in one shot. And no one knows because no one's ever dared to try, or possibly his bodyguards intercepted anyone who did.
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  9. - Top - End - #699
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    Just thought of something that might be funny: what if it turns out that Zeno's a total glass cannon? Ultimate offensive power, can erase all of existence if he wants to and automatically wins any fight where he gets the first blow, but no clue how to defend himself, no knowledge of how to actually fight, and no special durability, so any decent fighter who surprises him could take him out in one shot. And no one knows because no one's ever dared to try, or possibly his bodyguards intercepted anyone who did.
    Thats my current headcanon, yes. Whis did outright say he is NOT a fighter and from Dyspo fights its shown Zen-Oh cannot keep up with the action when its so fast. Meaning? anyone who can speed blitz Zen-Oh can just kill him in one hit. Hit could probably take him out easy. Of course, the GRAND PRIEST is either one of the top five best fighters or THE best fighter in all of reality depending on the canon you go with, and supposedly is invested in Zen-Oh's continued existence. So, you'd have to figure out how to distract him long enough to pull it off, so it might be a two-person job to assassinate the Omni-King.

    I'll comment on the new episode when Crunchyroll stops erroring at me. And lets me watch the episode.
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  10. - Top - End - #700
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Thats my current headcanon, yes. Whis did outright say he is NOT a fighter and from Dyspo fights its shown Zen-Oh cannot keep up with the action when its so fast. Meaning? anyone who can speed blitz Zen-Oh can just kill him in one hit. Hit could probably take him out easy. Of course, the GRAND PRIEST is either one of the top five best fighters or THE best fighter in all of reality depending on the canon you go with, and supposedly is invested in Zen-Oh's continued existence. So, you'd have to figure out how to distract him long enough to pull it off, so it might be a two-person job to assassinate the Omni-King.

    I'll comment on the new episode when Crunchyroll stops erroring at me. And lets me watch the episode.
    I don't think that's "headcanon" as much as it is "actual canon". Zen-Oh himself (themselves, I guess) explicitly mention not being able to follow the movements of... Uh... Someone? I don't remember whose fight it was. Basically, he has ultimate offense with his reality-erasing powers and quite a bit of durability (in the sense that he can survive extreme environmental conditions, he's able to survive in an erased time-line after all. In fact, he might very be downright immortal), but he doesn't seem to be as fast, strong or tough as any of the warriors competing in the tournament... Which is probably why he has guardians.

    BTW, Is it me or was this episode... Kinda of boring? These were some of the worst fight scenes I've seen in the show. No actual attacks or movements, just "teleports", movement lines and a bunch of sparks. I really, really hope they do better on the next episode. It's the goddamn final showdown of the series, after all!

    And with this much of the arena destroyed... Where the hell is Freeza hiding???
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-03-03 at 10:41 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #701
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    It picked up toward the end, but I definitely noticed some boring fighting in the first half.
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  12. - Top - End - #702
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Nope.

    Dragon Ball Super, despite all its flaws, has expanded upon the lore and setting by eleven entire universes, a look into how things work at the highest levels of power, and a bunch of characters to go along with it, all of whom will not be expanded upon it if its ending.

    FighterZ has introduced the idea that even Majin Buu can be used in the android science weirdness and has provided a very good, even sympathetic villain to go along with it full of tragedy and various other traits to make her memorable, while providing a lot of dialogue interactions between villains who never met before and thus establishing possible relationships between them.

    while Heroes has its own what ifs and such. I haven't checked into that one much.

    all of this together is a LOT of fanfic fuel. I could probably spend a lot of time just expanding upon and detailing out things about the other Universes that aren't U7 alone.
    Personally, I'm most intrigued by the implications of 21's creation(particularly the question of who all is in her) as well as the "Demon Realm" stuff in Heroes(Particularly the state of being a Demon God, which as it turns out is a lot more complicated than just having a fancy title) and the various Gods and Godly/like states introduced in Super and Heroes.
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  13. - Top - End - #703
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Personally, I'm most intrigued by the implications of 21's creation(particularly the question of who all is in her) as well as the "Demon Realm" stuff in Heroes(Particularly the state of being a Demon God, which as it turns out is a lot more complicated than just having a fancy title) and the various Gods and Godly/like states introduced in Super and Heroes.
    *looks it up*

    huh, Demon God is apparently a demonic super form. huh, not unexpected, won't conflict with what I've planned for the roleplay. but good potential ideas I can use there.

    oh wait, I can watch it now, so cya in a few, I'm gonna start watching and writing up my reaction.

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    Ok, final fight of the series, probably! Goku Vs. Jiren! Lets hit it, *megalovania intensifies* (because arguably, both Goku and Jiren are both jerks who aren't true heroes since neither of them are fighting for good reasons given the situation.)

    yup. yup. this is an ultimate fight alright.

    "lol your kamewhatever don't effect me. again."

    and Vegeta makes a speech then we get the break.

    ....this music sounds vaguely pokemonish?

    WHAT THE HELL, A GALAXY!? I THOUGHT I WAS JOKING WHEN I SAID THAT THEORY ABOUT GODS POWERING UP SO MUCH THEY CREATE GALAXIES SO LONG AGO!

    OH NO ITS ALL BUILDING UP AND.......dissipates. there is peace.

    Goku appears behind Jiren.

    .........did he just steal Jiren's attack and dissipate it with his fingers?

    yeah, Jiren's screwed now.

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    So. Goku's achieved UI for reals now.

    Preview: so THATS the final battle ok, this was just the warm up. still no sign of Freeza.

    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2018-03-04 at 01:04 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #704
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    I don't think that's "headcanon" as much as it is "actual canon". Zen-Oh himself (themselves, I guess) explicitly mention not being able to follow the movements of... Uh... Someone? I don't remember whose fight it was. Basically, he has ultimate offense with his reality-erasing powers and quite a bit of durability (in the sense that he can survive extreme environmental conditions, he's able to survive in an erased time-line after all. In fact, he might very be downright immortal), but he doesn't seem to be as fast, strong or tough as any of the warriors competing in the tournament... Which is probably why he has guardians.
    No it is still "headcanon", His attention isnt sharp enough to follow the ultra-fast movement of all the fighters, but we still dont know how tough he actually is. He bare registered floating around in a erased timeline, and for all we know he would not even register a full force punch from Jiren. It could just as well be that those guardians are there to protect the rest of the local universe from some crackpot like Frieza taking a shot at Zen-oh, and ½ the local universe getting blown up in a panicked response.

    My personal, and equally unsupported theory, is that Zen-oh is the reincarnation of the cosmic creator. Reincarnation is a thing in Dragon Ball, and suposedly even a true god could grow tired of everything. So it reincarnated itself back into its own earliest stage. But left a handful of angels to guide itself towards maturity without crushing to much of the universe it had left itself to explore.
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  15. - Top - End - #705
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    No it is still "headcanon", His attention isnt sharp enough to follow the ultra-fast movement of all the fighters, but we still dont know how tough he actually is. He bare registered floating around in a erased timeline, and for all we know he would not even register a full force punch from Jiren. It could just as well be that those guardians are there to protect the rest of the local universe from some crackpot like Frieza taking a shot at Zen-oh, and ½ the local universe getting blown up in a panicked response.

    My personal, and equally unsupported theory, is that Zen-oh is the reincarnation of the cosmic creator. Reincarnation is a thing in Dragon Ball, and suposedly even a true god could grow tired of everything. So it reincarnated itself back into its own earliest stage. But left a handful of angels to guide itself towards maturity without crushing to much of the universe it had left itself to explore.
    And yet, he explicitly says that he's unable to follow the movements of... Uh... Someone. I don't remember what fight it was, actually. But he even uses slow-motion replay it on his GodPad (or whatever it's called). Remember that this is a show where one's perception of fast movement is tied to their own physical prowess, with very few exceptions. Zen-Oh also never displayed any strength beyond what you could expect of a normal child (that I can recall, anyway).

    Still, in that post you quoted, I myself said that he's incredibly durable (at least to adverse environmental conditions). Perhaps Zen-Oh is not yet at his prime. The reason he's seemingly so weak is because he's the equivalent of a young child of whatever species he is... Which could still be the case whether he's a successor or a reincarnation of a previous godly being.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-03-04 at 11:40 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #706
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    I think it's pretty solidly canon that he doesn't know how to fight or defend himself. The question is whether he's so tough that he doesn't need to.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    ...You know, Zeno is basically a sitting duck against people with teleportation and absorption powers.

    So it's probably a good thing that they went with Frieza instead of Cell for the resurrected Badguy teammate.
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  18. - Top - End - #708
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    ...You know, Zeno is basically a sitting duck against people with teleportation and absorption powers.

    So it's probably a good thing that they went with Frieza instead of Cell for the resurrected Badguy teammate.
    Also makes you wonder if Bibidi set his sights a little to low all those millennia ago.

  19. - Top - End - #709
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    And yet, he explicitly says that he's unable to follow the movements of... Uh... Someone. I don't remember what fight it was, actually. But he even uses slow-motion replay it on his GodPad (or whatever it's called). Remember that this is a show where one's perception of fast movement is tied to their own physical prowess, with very few exceptions. Zen-Oh also never displayed any strength beyond what you could expect of a normal child (that I can recall, anyway).
    Its straight up mentioned in the post you quoted that Zen-Oh could not follow the motions of the fighters

    But would you considder a person in a attack hellicoptor weak for now having mastered the use of a sword? Its pretty clear Zen-Oh's offensive power transcent everything else. And as Douglas said, then the real question is if his defensive power also transcent the reality he is in.

    ...You know, Zeno is basically a sitting duck against people with teleportation and absorption powers.
    He is only a sitting duck if you can use those powers on him. Jiren turned out to be able to break a timelock. It can be the result of trying to absord Zen-Oh is just everything within 10 miles getting erased by reflex.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Its straight up mentioned in the post you quoted that Zen-Oh could not follow the motions of the fighters

    But would you considder a person in a attack hellicoptor weak for now having mastered the use of a sword? Its pretty clear Zen-Oh's offensive power transcent everything else. And as Douglas said, then the real question is if his defensive power also transcent the reality he is in.
    You do realize that we are agreeing with each other, right?
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Also makes you wonder if Bibidi set his sights a little to low all those millennia ago.
    That kind of assumes that Bibidil knew about the other universes or Gods above the Supreme Kais.

    I mean, he was able to summon and bind Buu, though he could barely control him, and Buu was basically the most powerful thing in the Universe at the time(Possibly even stronger than Beerus, if you take Old Kai's line at the time that the bad guy who sealed him away wasn't as bad as Buu to mean that Beerus was much weaker in Elder Kai's time... Though to be fair, it could just be that Toriyama forgot that Elder Kai said that.)

    It's entirely possible that as far as he knew, Bibidi had his sights set just right.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Do we get an episode this week?
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    Do we get an episode this week?
    Nope. checked Crunchyroll earlier. Another two-weeker. guess they want to make the final fight look really good.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Calling it now: Goku and Jiren both get eliminated, Freeza is the last one standing, and Vegeta gets the wish, being the MVP of U7. I'm guessing he wishes for U6 to be returned, or possibly merged with U7.

    Just as a shot in the friggin' dark, I'll also bet that something goes wonky with everyone's ki, and they stop being able to use godly energy. No particular reason for this one.
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy View Post
    Just as a shot in the friggin' dark, I'll also bet that something goes wonky with everyone's ki, and they stop being able to use godly energy. No particular reason for this one.
    Yeah, Dragon Ball doesn't work like that: The only way to lose power is to grow old or deliberatly stop training.
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  26. - Top - End - #716
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Yeah, Dragon Ball doesn't work like that: The only way to lose power is to grow old or deliberatly stop training.
    Yeah, there isn't going to be any last minute retcons to make GT a thing. Zen-Ohs love power ups and seeing flashy stuff happen they're not going to wish that away, the Grand Priest and the Angels are true neutral incarnate and if anything Whis seems PROUD of Goku achieving UI, and Beerus has been bitten by the Rustic Goku Charm bug. No one has any reason to depower Goku and Vegeta, and neither of those really have any motivation to stop training. Toriyama is many things, but he isn't a guy who writes anyone out of character. if anything Goku's blue gi at the end of Z is an indication that Goku is going to be trained by the Grand Priest to become even MORE powerful, since its the same colors as the Grand Priest. Probably because and if you are surprised by this, you haven't watched this show enough:
    because the Grand Priest, being the most powerful fighter ever, wants to train someone to be just as powerful as him, so he can finally have a good fight after so long.
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  27. - Top - End - #717
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    The title of the episode is extremely similar to the last episode of GT. It's possible that they can just wish that the winning universe doesn't remember any of the events after the Buu saga. It's the only way to explain away the massive power levels and still make GT canon.

    And it would make sense, considering toriyama did say that he wanted to tell a story about things happening that isn't changing the current canon.

    Basically, a Super Mario bros. 2 dream ending.

  28. - Top - End - #718
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    The title of the episode is extremely similar to the last episode of GT. It's possible that they can just wish that the winning universe doesn't remember any of the events after the Buu saga. It's the only way to explain away the massive power levels and still make GT canon.

    And it would make sense, considering toriyama did say that he wanted to tell a story about things happening that isn't changing the current canon.

    Basically, a Super Mario bros. 2 dream ending.
    1: GT was never canon. Toriyama drew a couple of characters and tha'ts where his involvment begins and ends(On a DVD Box Set, he refers to GT as a "Side-story.") As opposed to Super, where he writes the gneral story and supervises the Anime Writers.

    2: Even if they somehow got rid of allthe God Power and Beerus went back to sleep for a fewcenturies, GT still can't happen.

    GT's entire plot is dependant on an Elderly Pilaf Gang scaling the Lookout(climbing it in Robot suits instead of flying, meaning that they at bare minium must have gotten past Korin,) somehow knowing about something that happened before Kami seperated from Piccolo, and accidentally wishing Goku into a child on the Black Star Dragon Balls when trying for World Domination.

    In Super, Pilaf's gang has accidentally wished themselves into childhood, have managed to gather the dragon balls on their own at least twice(meaning that there's no need for them to go adfterspecial ones), and seemingly given up their evil plans to live/help at Capsule Corp.

    The plot of GT is a total non-starter.

    (Also the Shadow Dragons don't work: Nobody has any problems with casually using the Dragon Balls for things up to and including a Bingo Prize, which I have to imagine that Dende would have flip out about if the "They're only supposed to be used once every hundred years" thing was in play.)

    And for what tis' worth: Dragon Ball Online was originally intended to be the canon Future of Dragon Ball created under Toriyama's direct creative controll and it blatantly contradicted everything about GT.(Most notably to me, Pan actually did stuff.) Included among the events in Online's Backstory is Pan becoming Mr. Satan's heir and successor to his school, which he talks about in Super, and Tien opening his own martial arts school, which happened in Super, and Gohan scientifically proving the existance of Ki, which fits perfectly with his currrent desire to balance his schalarly carreer and being a fighter. And Goten and Trunks, having always been interested in Swords(not how Cool Trunks thinks they are everytime they come up in Super,) opening their own sword school.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2018-03-11 at 03:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    1: GT was never canon. Toriyama drew a couple of characters and tha'ts where his involvment begins and ends(On a DVD Box Set, he refers to GT as a "Side-story.") As opposed to Super, where he writes the gneral story and supervises the Anime Writers.

    2: Even if they somehow got rid of allthe God Power and Beerus went back to sleep for a fewcenturies, GT still can't happen.

    GT's entire plot is dependant on an Elderly Pilaf Gang scaling the Lookout(climbing it in Robot suits instead of flying, meaning that they at bare minium must have gotten past Korin,) somehow knowing about something that happened before Kami seperated from Piccolo, and accidentally wishing Goku into a child on the Black Star Dragon Balls when trying for World Domination.

    In Super, Pilaf's gang has accidentally wished themselves into childhood, have managed to gather the dragon balls on their own at least twice(meaning that there's no need for them to go adfterspecial ones), and seemingly given up their evil plans to live/help at Capsule Corp.

    The plot of GT is a total non-starter..
    The plot of GT is pretty much dead at this point, however, it was once intended to be canon. It was intended to be the official continuation of Dragonball Z. This is despite Toriyama lack of involvement in the storyline. When GT was being made no one considered it as anything less than the official continuation, and it was only later that changed.

    Toriyama himself was the one who made that change, making comments that he considered it a "grand side story" decades ago. I see little reason why he would want to write Super into GT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Yeah, there isn't going to be any last minute retcons to make GT a thing. Zen-Ohs love power ups and seeing flashy stuff happen they're not going to wish that away, the Grand Priest and the Angels are true neutral incarnate and if anything Whis seems PROUD of Goku achieving UI, and Beerus has been bitten by the Rustic Goku Charm bug. No one has any reason to depower Goku and Vegeta, and neither of those really have any motivation to stop training. Toriyama is many things, but he isn't a guy who writes anyone out of character. if anything Goku's blue gi at the end of Z is an indication that Goku is going to be trained by the Grand Priest to become even MORE powerful, since its the same colors as the Grand Priest. Probably because and if you are surprised by this, you haven't watched this show enough:
    because the Grand Priest, being the most powerful fighter ever, wants to train someone to be just as powerful as him, so he can finally have a good fight after so long.
    This sounds deceptively like a thing that could actually happen. However, Goku's blue go goes back decades before Super was a thing and Toriyama was thinking of ending things at the time (the next thing he though about was GT). It seems highly unlikely that the blue gi meant or means anything to Toriyama, especially has the manga weren't colored. Likely this was Toei suggesting things.

    When Vegata was drawn, Toriyama didn't see him depicted with red hair and the wrong uniform color until he saw the finished product on TV (which is why Vegata has completely different colors in the Z filler when he first appears).
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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  30. - Top - End - #720
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    Default Re: Dragon Ball Super II: Orange Hillbilly Dooms World... Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    No it is still "headcanon", His attention isnt sharp enough to follow the ultra-fast movement of all the fighters, but we still dont know how tough he actually is.
    He is tough enough to ignore God of Destruction Rumsshi's roar which paralyzed other gods of destruction and knocked out the supreme kais.

    I prefer to think of it as Zeno lives in our time frame rather than benefiting from any sort of speed granted by power. A bored Zeno will wipe universes, the longer it takes him to getting around to things (ie doesn't have the ability to detect, think, and react to people moving FTL or faster) the more time everyone else has.

    Spoiler: The age old debate of bad fanbois complaining about things they don't like and how that should affect the "officiousness" of something is contained in this spoiler because no one really wants to hear it anyway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    1: GT was never canon. Toriyama drew a couple of characters and tha'ts where his involvment begins and ends(On a DVD Box Set, he refers to GT as a "Side-story.") As opposed to Super, where he writes the gneral story and supervises the Anime Writers.
    The kanji サイドストーリー ("saido sutori" or side-story) doesn't even appear in the Toriyama's note in the GT boxed set to begin with, what you claim is there is a mistranslation on the word gaiden.

    You also need to stop treating your incorrect personal opinion as some kind of fact and you really need to stop making up lies and claiming they are true too. I've linked to the interview where Toyotaro says he writes the initial storyboard to you probably a dozen times already. All Toriyama does is nod his head, which is exactly how Kozo described their multiple meetings with Toriyama when they were working on GT. Toriyama isn't even accredited as a series writer in Super either, his position in the credits is the same one he held in GT's credits. You can't have it both ways.

    Toriyama choosing Toyotaro as his successor appears in multiple interviews by different people as well, and if you want to try citing video games that don't support you then I can to. So I'm going to use the Collector's Edition of Xenoverse 2 where Toriyama wrote "I’ve been drawing with less frequency lately, and that’s the reason why Toyotaro took the responsibility of drawing Db. Nevertheless, I still contribute with the basic ideas of the story, but in truth, Toyotaro’s great skills are the ones responsible for making Dragon Ball come back to life once more!" which is yet another public acknowledgement that Toyotaro is in charge of everything. Toyotaro also wrote Xenoverse 2's Manga which depicts an adult Goku in the year 851 making him over 115 years old even through Saiyens have a normal human life span and he should have died from old age, unless someone used a blackstar dragonball to wish him younger or something.

    Toyotaro also worked on Dragonball Heroes and in that Gohan archives SSj4 and Goten joins the Time Patrols within a few months of GT's Shadow Dragon arc ending. Toyotaro keeps including GT in all of his works, Toriyama has recommended GT and like SSj4's design so GT is never going to go away no matter you opinion on it or how often to attempt to share it. Maybe you should stop trying to be on the wrong side of an argument and see how it feels to be right about something for once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    The plot of GT is pretty much dead at this point, however, it was once intended to be canon. It was intended to be the official continuation of Dragonball Z. This is despite Toriyama lack of involvement in the storyline. When GT was being made no one considered it as anything less than the official continuation, and it was only later that changed.
    It still is too, see above but something else to consider is the culture gap you don't understand here. Much like how people treat western comics in the west, even eastern anime filler is considered canon material in the east.

    It's also a large reason on why filler gets made in the first place, the pacing excuse you've heard actually has little to do with it. The studios spend a lot of money creating and animating those filler arcs. Not all anime actually get them and some are even prematurely ended so another franchise can have the time slot like fullmetal alchemist. For an anime to continue to get filler arcs it has to be well supported by the target audience.
    Last edited by Mato; 2018-03-13 at 12:26 AM.

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