RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales

[Reddish Mage]

Spoiler: V5C12

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I don't remember everything, but I know when the Spring Maiden zapped lightning around to intimidate people, I don't recall if Raven was around for that or not.

I'd have to listen to the conversation again to be sure, but I wrote most of what I felt about that scene back when I did watch it. Basically, the emphasis put on "doing what's best for the tribe" by both Raven and Vernal makes no sense when you consider Raven is the Spring Maiden.

Spoiler: V5C12 Hiding behind plain sight

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Raven was always present and wearing the Grimm mask whenever Vernal demonstrated her maiden powers. She did that both for Yang and for Cinder. What’s more Raven takes off the mask both times soon after the display. In hindsight its obvious that Raven was using the mask specifically to hide her eyes for when she uses the maiden powers.

Add to that Raven calls out Cinder’s name as too appropriate to a maiden to be anything but a name made up by Cinder when Vernal is arguably just as obvious.

Its really quite clear on rewatching what they were doing. Additionally, neither Raven nor Vernal ever actually says Vernal is the spring maiden, Cinder says it when Raven calls Vernal out in response to Cinder’s request to prove “she has the Spring maiden.” Even rewatching the Volume 4 episode “Family” where Qrow asks Raven about the maiden one gets the impression they were planning for the twist.

Spoiler: V5C12 For the tribe!

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Raven has consistently from her first conversation with Qrow in Volume 4 talked about the tribe as of paramount importance. She also calls it her and Qrow’s “family” and from that exchange with Qrow its clear that Raven sees the tribe as her family moreso than her brother or daughter.

This is reinforced when Yang comes calling. By the time Vernal and Raven start executing their plan for what to do when Salem comes calling its clear what Raven’s values are and we have already got the idea from her interactions that Vernal was loyal to Raven and the bandits.

Vernal and Raven’s discussion does everything to tell us Vernal’s loyalty. They describe the plan is to take advantage of the confusion and steal the relic. Vernal’s declaration of tribal loyalty is percisely appropriate in the context. Their whole conversation is about “screw Salem, screw Ozpin, screw Qrow, we’re going to do what we must so the tribe can survive.”

Spoiler: V5C12 Origins

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I think Zodi got the options down for how Raven could have gotten the maiden powers.

I would add (as I had previously) that Raven couldn’t possibly be the maiden that ran away from Mistral both because she’d be the wrong age and because Qrow has no idea Raven is the maiden. Qrow asks Raven about her “having” the maiden. The possibility of Raven being the maiden never crossed his mind. That would be also be a secret that would be odd for her to keep from Ozpin and STRQ as well during that time when Raven supposedly was loyal to Ozpin.

So there was another young Spring maiden that ran away to Mistral. Raven either killed her or the maiden died and Raven got inherited the power.

However, while it would be cool if Vernal gave Raven the powers right there at the end of the episode, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t make sense since we see that Vernal is still alive after Cinder has grimm arm all stuck in her guts. Her eyes are open and reactive right before Cinder starts shouting about the power being gone.

I suppose its possible Vernal expired just as we cut to Raven or Cinder, but it reads like Cinder’s grimm parts literally sucks out the power from the maidens, no relying on anything as fickle as maiden thoughts to hope the power transfers. Cinder clearly likes killing people, but she too impatient to wait until the maiden’s dead.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: V5C12 Origins

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I think Zodi got the options down for how Raven could have gotten the maiden powers.

I would add (as I had previously) that Raven couldn’t possibly be the maiden that ran away from Mistral both because she’d be the wrong age and because Qrow has no idea Raven is the maiden. Qrow asks Raven about her “having” the maiden. The possibility of Raven being the maiden never crossed his mind. That would be also be a secret that would be odd for her to keep from Ozpin and STRQ as well during that time when Raven supposedly was loyal to Ozpin.

So there was another young Spring maiden that ran away to Mistral. Raven either killed her or the maiden died and Raven got inherited the power.

However, while it would be cool if Vernal gave Raven the powers right there at the end of the episode, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t make sense since we see that Vernal is still alive after Cinder has grimm arm all stuck in her guts. Her eyes are open and reactive right before Cinder starts shouting about the power being gone.

I suppose its possible Vernal expired just as we cut to Raven or Cinder, but it reads like Cinder’s grimm parts literally sucks out the power from the maidens, no relying on anything as fickle as maiden thoughts to hope the power transfers. Cinder clearly likes killing people, but she too impatient to wait until the maiden’s dead.

Spoiler: V5C12

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Yeah, the Grimm arm just sucks the juice out of em. If Vernal was the maiden that'd be it, my idea was that Cinder hits her with like an arrow or something to be like "be disabled like Amber was so I can eat you better" and she unfortunately kills Vernal with that, giving Raven the powers.

But yeah no. The evidence that Raven is the Spring Maiden (even if it's only noticable after the reveal) is clear and there. I'd say this is an unfair twist because there's just...not any reason to assume Raven isn't being truthful when she says she has the Spring Maiden (afterall, she does) and no reason to assume Vernal isn't beyond her biting comment about Cinder's name. That name comment is really the only bit of information we're given that could even remotely hint to this twist. It's kind of bothersome that they didn't foreshadow the twist a little better.

I will note that yes, while it's true Vernal's eye didn't do the explode-y fire thing Cinder's and I think Amber's did when she used her powers, we have no real reason to assume that that's a requirement for Maiden powers, because we've never been told what the Maiden powers really are beyond "magic". It's a lack of communication that makes the twist seem worse than it is.

[Anyr]

Spoiler: V5C12

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But yeah no. The evidence that Raven is the Spring Maiden (even if it's only noticable after the reveal) is clear and there. I'd say this is an unfair twist because there's just...not any reason to assume Raven isn't being truthful when she says she has the Spring Maiden (afterall, she does) and no reason to assume Vernal isn't beyond her biting comment about Cinder's name. That name comment is really the only bit of information we're given that could even remotely hint to this twist. It's kind of bothersome that they didn't foreshadow the twist a little better.

Spoiler: V05E12

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There's another, surprisingly subtle, piece of foreshadowing for the twist. You actually spotted it yourself. Here's a quote from your own reaction to Vernal's first appearance:

" I...really don't like the Spring Maiden's design. The tattoo of a bird is nice, but otherwise it feels...generic. And I mean, I'm all for toning down the designs a bit, this series is loud, but it doesn't really work...at all. It feels like the outfit of someone who isn't important."

Credit where credit is due. The character designers knew what they were doing here.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: V05E12

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There's another, surprisingly subtle, piece of foreshadowing for the twist. You actually spotted it yourself. Here's a quote from your own reaction to Vernal's first appearance:

" I...really don't like the Spring Maiden's design. The tattoo of a bird is nice, but otherwise it feels...generic. And I mean, I'm all for toning down the designs a bit, this series is loud, but it doesn't really work...at all. It feels like the outfit of someone who isn't important."

Credit where credit is due. The character designers knew what they were doing here.

Spoiler: V5C12

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It's arguable whether or not this counts as foreshadowing in my book since Amber's design was just as simple and generic so it could of been they were designing Vernal that way because all the Maidens are basically throwaway characters that don't entirely matter because their entire roll is to die. But sure I'll take it.

I'd also still argue that making Vernal look a less less generic would of been nice since she's supposed to be someone who matters, given she's Raven's second in command and her fake Maiden for this big plan type thing.

[Reddish Mage]

Spoiler: V5C12

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I'd say this is an unfair twist because there's just...not any reason to assume Raven isn't being truthful when she says she has the Spring Maiden (afterall, she does) and no reason to assume Vernal isn't beyond her biting comment about Cinder's name. That name comment is really the only bit of information we're given that could even remotely hint to this twist. It's kind of bothersome that they didn't foreshadow the twist a little better.

Spoiler: V5C12 Foreshadow

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Again, they did a lot more than remotely hint at the twist that Raven was the maiden. Raven comes out wearing a mask for Yang, we get “Vernal’s” display, then she removes it when its done. She puts the mask on for Cinder, but only until the maiden power is displayed again and then Raven removes it. Anyone could have posited that the mask is being worn to disguise Raven’s eyes from having the maiden aura, only we didn’t.

There’s more. Raven never said she had the maiden. Qrow accused her of having the maiden and Cinder assumed it. Raven was in fact being oblique the entire time about Vernal. That part someone even pointed out to object that Vernal is the maiden.

This is not an example of a sudden heel turn with no foreshadowing. Agents of SHIELD had a sudden heel turn at the end of the first season (no warning, no hinting just one character turns out to be a traitor). Star Wars Episode VIII is absolutely filled with these. RWBY did not do this.

Ravens entire behavior, in hindsight, was dedicated to protecting the secret, but did so in such an obvious way it could have been figured out.

RWBY absolute foreshadowed Raven being the spring maiden and did about as much as they could, making it an obvious fit on rewatching those scenes, without actually revealing to everyone that Raven as the real spring Maiden ahead of time.

With the last big reveal, where they hid that Blake was a faunus for the first season, Reddit went wild in Season 1 episode 6 or 7 because her bow twitched (already they were on thin ice). This time, they seeded enough hints that it could have been guessed, but used just enough misdirection (properly motivated by plot) to convince the wiki that Vernal was the confirmed spring maiden even though neither Vernal nor Raven verbalized anything to that effect.

There is no lack of foreshadowing. The foreshadowing included both those little sprinkles you mentioned, and BIG things (the mask and Raven being so oblique on the topic). Anything more obvious and it would have been clear to everyone the way Juane’s semblance was telegraphed already in Episode 11.

Of the two I think the Raven reveal was genuinely surprising and good and Juane’s semblance reveal...could have been done better.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: V5C12 Foreshadow

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Again, they did a lot more than remotely hint at the twist that Raven was the maiden. Raven comes out wearing a mask for Yang, we get “Vernal’s” display, then she removes it when its done. She puts the mask on for Cinder, but only until the maiden power is displayed again and then Raven removes it. Anyone could have posited that the mask is being worn to disguise Raven’s eyes from having the maiden aura, only we didn’t.

There’s more. Raven never said she had the maiden. Qrow accused her of having the maiden and Cinder assumed it. Raven was in fact being oblique the entire time about Vernal. That part someone even pointed out to object that Vernal is the maiden.

This is not an example of a sudden heel turn with no foreshadowing. Agents of SHIELD had a sudden heel turn at the end of the first season (no warning, no hinting just one character turns out to be a traitor). Star Wars Episode VIII is absolutely filled with these. RWBY did not do this.

Ravens entire behavior, in hindsight, was dedicated to protecting the secret, but did so in such an obvious way it could have been figured out.

RWBY absolute foreshadowed Raven being the spring maiden and did about as much as they could, making it an obvious fit on rewatching those scenes, without actually revealing to everyone that Raven as the real spring Maiden ahead of time.

With the last big reveal, where they hid that Blake was a faunus for the first season, Reddit went wild in Season 1 episode 6 or 7 because her bow twitched (already they were on thin ice). This time, they seeded enough hints that it could have been guessed, but used just enough misdirection (properly motivated by plot) to convince the wiki that Vernal was the confirmed spring maiden even though neither Vernal nor Raven verbalized anything to that effect.

There is no lack of foreshadowing. The foreshadowing included both those little sprinkles you mentioned, and BIG things (the mask and Raven being so oblique on the topic). Anything more obvious and it would have been clear to everyone the way Juane’s semblance was telegraphed already in Episode 11.

Of the two I think the Raven reveal was genuinely surprising and good and Juane’s semblance reveal...could have been done better.

Spoiler: V5C12

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There's actually a ton of hints about that character on SHIELD by the way, funny you should mention that. But yeah, that's fair. They misdirected us a lot, and I guess I'm just salty since I tend to be really good at catching twists (I didn't catch the Hydra Agent in SHIELD either by the way). So okay, yeah, I'll accept this is a good twist in that it was executed well.

I just also feel it's not really nessicary? It feels like a twist for twists sake, is the problem I think I'm having with it.

[Mechalich]

Spoiler: V5C12

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There's actually a ton of hints about that character on SHIELD by the way, funny you should mention that. But yeah, that's fair. They misdirected us a lot, and I guess I'm just salty since I tend to be really good at catching twists (I didn't catch the Hydra Agent in SHIELD either by the way). So okay, yeah, I'll accept this is a good twist in that it was executed well.

I just also feel it's not really nessicary? It feels like a twist for twists sake, is the problem I think I'm having with it.

Spoiler: v5c12

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I feel that the reveal of Raven as the Maiden helps justify Raven's behavior throughout this volume and also her relationship with Vernal. It was always weird to see a Maiden - and presumably one who'd had the power for some time and new what she was doing with it - be so deferential. For instance, when Raven and Cinder negotiate their little alliance, the shot's of Vernal implied fairly strongly that she really wasn't down with the whole thing - which in hindsight makes sense given that she would know she's being asked to play the bait for a very dangerous person - but Raven never consulted her at all.

Beyond that it's hard to say whether the twist is necessary given that we don't ultimately know what's going to happen. It depends on who dies, who lives, who gets the Maiden's power, and who ends up with the relic. For example, if the plan is actually to ultimately empower the RWBY girls as the four maidens (please, please no) then it makes sense for Raven to be the maiden and not Vernal. If the plan is for Raven to continue to operate as an independent third party, it also makes more sense for her to be the maiden. Vernal has appeared more sympathetic to the main cast characters and doesn't have the personal history to reject an alliance with Ozpin. Heck, it even makes more sense for Raven to be the maiden is she's ultimately going to die here - since the other characters will be impacted by her loss in a way they won't be for Vernal. Huh, I like that last idea. Dying Raven passes the power to Vernal (who Jaune saves) instead of Yang. Cinder escapes with the relic. Yes, let's do that.

[kjelfalconer]

Spoiler: V5C12 Foreshadow

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There's one other piece of foreshadowing that I don't think anyone else has mentioned. Raven near as much told us outright that she was lying during her conversation with Yang. Her insistence that Yang question everything, including her? In hindsight, she was clearly telling us that she was lying through her teeth about something big.

For all of the faults in RWBY's writing, the foreshadowing here was genuinely very well done.

[Reddish Mage]

That's fair.

Apropos of nothing, this was fun reading.

This was an amazing parody of Ozpin’s internal records. You know this is gold when you get to RWBY and JNPR’s team records, which consists entirely of detailed analysis of individual ships!

Now its time to get everything in on Episode 12 NOT involving the one thing.

Spoiler: V5C12

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Hazel threatens Leo (an odd thing given Hazel's supposed to be the most peaceful of team bad guy) for getting beaten up by a kid, but once he's told it's Ozpin he starts getting mad. And you wouldn't like him when he's mad...

Then he rips off his jacket in a very very badly animated and modeled way, takes out four large yellow rocks, and stabs himself in the arms with them. Look man. Even given that we've been given noo information on how dust is actually supposed to work, I DON'T THINK THAT'S HOW IT WORKS.

Regardless, it pumps him up like the Dust tainted Grimm from the RWBY video game, crackling with electricity because I guess orange is electricity. Fair enough. I wish we knew anything about Hazel or saw him fight "normal" before he did this so we'd have an idea of why this matters.

Dude just had a sister, and she died at school during a training mission. And that's why Hazel is super evil now.

That's...incredibly underwhelming, but alright. I mean it's FAIR, and it gives a nice contrast to all his fellows. It's one of the "inherent things" of this universe that I've kind of wanted to see. People die, they die hard and alone, and this is not a nice setting to live in. Of course you're gonna get people like Hazel. But it doesn't feel appropriate for him to throw his entire life away to a satan just to get revenge on...a bad headmaster.

Also I don't know how powerful jamming dust into your body is but Qrowe, a master hunter and general badass, cannot beat him.

Spoiler: V5C12 Things that guys do

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Hazel sticking dust into his body is a technique described all the way back in season 2’s world of Remnant (“some incorporate it into their clothes or even their bodies”). We know he’s a powerhouse before because he was fighting both Ren and Nora with his bear hands and doing just fine. By the way, his tendency to fight people using weapons by blocking with his arms... makes sense he has all those scars on his arms.

Hazel joining with essentially the personification of evil, who wants to kill everybody indiscriminately, because he’s angry that the guy fighting her was willing to risk his sisters life to do so...doesn’t make logical sense. Then again, it really doesn’t have have to.

Hazel is clearly a hypocrite of the highest order. Willing to kill a 14 year old child to get to the man he’s angry at for killing...a slightly older child.

By the way, recall what training missions are. They aren’t exercises like the forest of initiation. These are where the Beacon students accompany experienced huntsmen to fight grimm, save towns from bandits, and so on an so forth.

Also completely unrelated but when JNPR failed to heed the call to go to Shion village, was that what allowed Raven to raid the place unopposed?

Anyway, those training missions are serious work.

More related stuff in the first minute of the next episode. What six dollars buys you:

Spoiler: V5C13 First Minute

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Hazel’s hypocrisy reaches its height as he grabs and slams Nora and blames Ozpin for how many children are going to die on his watch (cause Hazel is going to kill them). Yep this guy has lost it.

Anyway the fade out drives home that the latest match up is Nora vs. Lightning-powered Hazel. And that’s a wrap. Goodbye Hazel.

Now for some other related miscallenous stuff Zodi says:

Spoiler: V5C12

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Cinder orders Leo to open the vault and...it's...the path to the vault is the big angel lady slave statue in the middle of the room. That's a really bad place to hide it, even if it is covered up with a lock that requires fitting a pocketwatch into a hole it doesn't actually fit. Also, not doing a good job of dissuading me from the whole "team Ozpin treats the maidens like items" thing with hiding the vault inside a statue of an enslaved women.

Spoiler: V5C12 Beacon’s ancient history revealed

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That “slave angel statute” depicts the same women who appears fighting grimm alongside another huntsman at Beacon academy. I think she is one of the great ancient heroes. Here she’s alone, holds up the podium, has the sun at her back, and some gold chains hanging down from her (and one wrapped around). I don’t think the chains that means she’s a slave.

Gold chains can means a lot of things, you wouldn’t put gold chains on a slave (well not one whose main job is lifting podiums anyway, for one gold is weak and breaks easily). This ancient heroine probably founded Mistral or something, got tied down there, and held the place up with her powers.

That’s your Remnant history lesson. Professor Reddish out.

Also this is the best moment in the episode

Spoiler: V5C12

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Ruby helps out Yang, and delivers...a line that would work if literally anyone else had said it. Yang asks if she's okay, and Ruby says "no. I'm angry" in her tiny little squeak voice.

Spoiler: V5C12

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There it is. That line. “I’m angry” coming from Ruby. RUBY! This is gold. This is everything I’ve been hoping for. Ruby is finally going to throw down. You think angry Hazel is something, let’s see what angry Ruby can do.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: V5C12

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I mean the chains are gold because it's a statue and not a real person Reddish. That said I thought the statue at Beacon was of a different person, got a clear picture of it?

Also, I'd more interested in Ruby saying she's mad if she wasn't the exact mental opposite of the AI from I Have No Mouth. Does Ruby even know how to spell angry, let alone be it?

[Reddish Mage]

https://goo.gl/images/ExRRFM

Spoiler: V5C12

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Does Ruby even know how to spell angry, let alone be it?

Spoiler: V5C12 13 Speculation

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I think we’re about to find out.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: v5c13

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90% of what happens inside the main hall is dumb, except for finding out what Jaune's Semblance actually does, and Weiss bringing buzzing back. 90% of what happens anywhere besides the main hall is awesome, except for Adam's apparent lack of either numbers or scouting--and did any White Fang members not follow his idiotic order to attack? I didn't see.

Maidenbowl for best fight of the show so far. Or most animesque, anyway.

Raven may not know it, but taking two Maidens' powers (if that's what was implied by having two eye-flames, I won't commit 100% to that and there are definitely other possibilities even if Cinder is properly dead) has doomed her. She's now too strong to consider allying with the gang, but not strong enough to solo the board. Still worth it for the memes:


(source)

So when did we see Jaune amplifying someone else's Semblance?

Also, when is Watts gonna do something?

[Ramza00]

I miss Zwei.

[Mechalich]

Spoiler: v5c13

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90% of what happens inside the main hall is dumb, except for finding out what Jaune's Semblance actually does, and Weiss bringing buzzing back. 90% of what happens anywhere besides the main hall is awesome, except for Adam's apparent lack of either numbers or scouting--and did any White Fang members not follow his idiotic order to attack? I didn't see.

Maidenbowl for best fight of the show so far. Or most animesque, anyway.

Raven may not know it, but taking two Maidens' powers (if that's what was implied by having two eye-flames, I won't commit 100% to that and there are definitely other possibilities even if Cinder is properly dead) has doomed her. She's now too strong to consider allying with the gang, but not strong enough to solo the board. Still worth it for the memes:


(source)

So when did we see Jaune amplifying someone else's Semblance?

Also, when is Watts gonna do something?

Spoiler: V5C13

Show

Adam's lack of numbers is kind of weird. I mean, this episode strongly implies his attack force is like 6 other dudes. Which doesn't make sense given that he must have had twenty times that to attack Beacon and that was when he was still a splinter faction of the White Fang. I suspect it's a time/money issue. It looks like there was probably some big White Fang versus Menagerie Faunus throwdown planned that would have happened outside the square but it just didn't get made. Which, honestly, its fine. There's not really any need to see piles of completely random extras smash into each other.

The Main Hall fight continues to have real problems, and it is clear by now that Hazel simply doesn't work in the context of RWBY combat. He's a human who fights like a Grim and its a mess. Every time combat runs into him it stops the flow RWBY relies upon to produce its characteristic hyper gun-fu dead. Also his lack of a weapon creates weird problems when he gets hit. Weiss totally puts a lancer sting through his torso in this episode, but he's okay. Which, sure, aura and all, but it just looked really dumb.

Liked the maiden fight, especially since it hewed to the better fighter versus better powers bit I'd previously noted and the better fighter won. I don't think Cinder's gone for good for a second though - there's just too much invested in her for a secondary character like Raven to take her out for good (also throwing a character off a cliff is a pretty standard 'not-actually dead' cheat). I only hope she doesn't emerge from her little ice prison to do something utterly unearned before this volume is over.

[Malak'ai]

Spoiler: v5c13

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90% of what happens inside the main hall is dumb, except for finding out what Jaune's Semblance actually does, and Weiss bringing buzzing back. 90% of what happens anywhere besides the main hall is awesome, except for Adam's apparent lack of either numbers or scouting--and did any White Fang members not follow his idiotic order to attack? I didn't see.

Maidenbowl for best fight of the show so far. Or most animesque, anyway.

Raven may not know it, but taking two Maidens' powers (if that's what was implied by having two eye-flames, I won't commit 100% to that and there are definitely other possibilities even if Cinder is properly dead) has doomed her. She's now too strong to consider allying with the gang, but not strong enough to solo the board. Still worth it for the memes:


(source)

So when did we see Jaune amplifying someone else's Semblance?

Also, when is Watts gonna do something?

Spoiler: V5C13

Show

Adam's lack of numbers is kind of weird. I mean, this episode strongly implies his attack force is like 6 other dudes. Which doesn't make sense given that he must have had twenty times that to attack Beacon and that was when he was still a splinter faction of the White Fang. I suspect it's a time/money issue. It looks like there was probably some big White Fang versus Menagerie Faunus throwdown planned that would have happened outside the square but it just didn't get made. Which, honestly, its fine. There's not really any need to see piles of completely random extras smash into each other.

The Main Hall fight continues to have real problems, and it is clear by now that Hazel simply doesn't work in the context of RWBY combat. He's a human who fights like a Grim and its a mess. Every time combat runs into him it stops the flow RWBY relies upon to produce its characteristic hyper gun-fu dead. Also his lack of a weapon creates weird problems when he gets hit. Weiss totally puts a lancer sting through his torso in this episode, but he's okay. Which, sure, aura and all, but it just looked really dumb.

Liked the maiden fight, especially since it hewed to the better fighter versus better powers bit I'd previously noted and the better fighter won. I don't think Cinder's gone for good for a second though - there's just too much invested in her for a secondary character like Raven to take her out for good (also throwing a character off a cliff is a pretty standard 'not-actually dead' cheat). I only hope she doesn't emerge from her little ice prison to do something utterly unearned before this volume is over.

Spoiler: V5C13

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If you remember the scene of the WF planting the bombs, Adam instructs them to "fall back to perimiter patrol" once they are done. I think the few mooks he still has with him in the courtyard are either stragglers, or his personal guard.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: V5C13

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If you remember the scene of the WF planting the bombs, Adam instructs them to "fall back to perimiter patrol" once they are done. I think the few mooks he still has with him in the courtyard are either stragglers, or his personal guard.

Spoiler: v5c13

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So...where was the perimeter patrol when the crowds of Faunus were approaching? With close air support, to boot.

[Malak'ai]

Spoiler: v5c13

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So...where was the perimeter patrol when the crowds of Faunus were approaching? With close air support, to boot.

Spoiler: V5C13

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Probally got overrun, or as Mechalich said, the fight during the advance was planned but never done due to what ever reasons.

[khadgar567]

I hate to be right but i was on the money. knight boy used lay on hands on weis so she is alright. still no info about blake but its alright for me. as for visored raven plot atleast we know why she wears that helm lot of the time. and hay ruby growed a little as team captain.

Spoiler: V5C11

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well i want to say good riddance but who are we kidding. weis will survive. why you ask?her wound probably cauterized so she is not bleeding. ruby tried to cast time stop but knocked out. probably rest of the gang knocked up in next episode except knight boy so he can archive his semblance( nick named save the queen ) so they fight and blake cleans the bombs from out side then we are kinda back to the grind / angst fest for the remaining season. I hope jauns semblence has a way to seperate her love since he kinda earn it in my book

while i liked This season i still want to turn all this and previous season to bad milk induced hallucination and continue from before the school attack with girls going different route to solve the mess gonna be happening.

[Calemyr]

Spoiler: v5c13

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So...where was the perimeter patrol when the crowds of Faunus were approaching? With close air support, to boot.

Spoiler: V5C13: A couple factors

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While the practical reason was probably animation budget, there's a few in-story reasons why they'd have such a small force.

1) Adam likely only brought the "best", which is to say those few he was absolutely certain were loyal to the cause and not likely to develop a conscience while setting up a detonator. That's not likely a massive number of people to begin with, despite the size of White Fang.

2) This was supposed to be a low-key mission with inside access. No guards, no huntsmen, the only threats being safely contained inside the school. Using more men than necessary to efficiently set up the bombs would do little but up the chance of discovery or for loose lips to sink ships.

3) If things did get out of hand, few White Fang are sufficient to even serve as a speed bump to a trained huntsman. Adam didn't think he had anything to fear, but bringing more men wouldn't have helped with the threat they were expecting (it would have helped with Blake's team and the police, of course). It may have been arrogant to think he knew all the pieces in play, but it's Adam.

4) As has been pointed out, most of Adam's forces were ordered out onto the perimeter.

5) Alya and Blake went in first, before the ground forces and well before the air support. Both girls are ex-White Fang, act like ninja, and are experienced with Adam's tactics.

It is not hard to believe at all that the two systematically cleared the sentries while Blake found Adam and Alya disarmed the bombs. You could possibly add in Ghira as well, though he was more leading the ground troops than fighting. Adam's troops had the right numbers and tactics for the clandestine sneak attack they set out to do, but the wrong one to stop a tactical strike team armed with knowledge about their location, intent, and tactics.

With that said, I have to say I loved watching the fight between Blake and Adam. A six months ago, that would have turned out very differently. Blake was still timid and scared of Adam. She would have frozen up and at best put up a couple panicked dodges before he finished her off. Instead, she kept a cool head and took advantage of the fact that Adam's alpha-strike tendencies leave him vulnerable to counter attacks if you can avoid it. And with one fluid movement she completely destroyed the illusion of dominance he'd had over her. I just wonder if she'll see it that way.

[LaZodiac]

Oh hey just a heads up type thing, that fighting game cross over game with Blazblue, Persona, the other series I've never heard of and RWBY, is gonna only have Ruby and Weiss in it at launch...but it's gonna have 20 DLC characters and the first of them is Blake. Just dropping some news on you people, because you'll care about this.

[crayzz]

Spoiler: V5C13

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The maiden fight was pretty cool. I was stressing out the whole time bc I figured Cinder would definitely win, probably because Yang interrupts, Cinder attacks Yang, Raven defends Yang leaving herself open (proving she Really Did Love Yang All Along). That didn't happen, thankfully, but the whole time I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I feel like Adam went down like a chump. He was built up as this terrifying, charismatic ideologue who backed his political maneuvering with organised terrorism: he personally excelled at violence, and could sweet talk your friends into hating you (provided he could exploit their resentment of their oppression). He nearly single-handedly killed Blake and Yang 2 seasons ago. And here he just... gets dropped. On top of being ridiculously outmanned (which, fair, you're not gonna expect a legion of Faunus to cross the world to stop you personally), he fights like a moron, charging directly at someone he knows excels at dodging.

I really wanna see more Hazel v Nora, especially now that Hazel is using fire dust. This show has a dearth of bruiser fights, it feels like, and I don't think we've seen Nora go all out, at least not in detail (there was the festival tournament, but that was over in a flash).

[Ramza00]

RWBY Vol 5 Chapter 13: Downfall is now free on RT's website for all people including non subscriber accounts.

http://roosterteeth.com/episode/rwby-volume-5-13zxsre98

[jindra34]

Spoiler: Volume 5 Episode 13.

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Well a lot has been shown. And if Raven ends up seeing how through the dismantling of Salem's plans, minions, and machinations here has been... Well maybe she'll change her mind. But more likely she'll end up with Fall and being/coerced into going to grab the Beacon relic, thereby taking her out of the story till the threat level can catch up. Also that song? Feels like a proper funeral song for Cinder, and man was watching Raven out class her cathartic. Also can I claim to have called it? So Leo, how's playing for the losing side feel? Because even without the mess in the basement/vault this looks like a pretty solid loss. Also great to see character development pay off. And Adam going down like a chump? Seems like a proper end for him, no respect, no attention, just gone.

[Lemmy]

How can it be so good and so terrible at the same time?

Spoiler: v5e13

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The maiden fight was great. Not amazing, but really good!

OTOH... The group battle was simply awful . People stop fighting and politely wait for their opponents... Big guy runs straight into Nora's hammer (What? Didn't he see her SUPER WIDE SING? And of course her opponent uses electricity on her. How convenient!), Mercury and Emerald apparently completely forgot how to fight and/or move (that wall of ice isn't wide, Mercury. And you're super fast!). At one point, Ruby and Yang literally turn their backs on Mercury and Emerald and they still fail to do anything.

And then there's Adam and the faunus... Isn't this guy supposed to be a super-badass villain that even easily cut an arm from one of the main heroines? His defeat is one of the most disappointing and underwhelming things I've seen in this show! He's defeated by a single unarmed strike... What?! That's a let-down. I expected nothing and I'm still disappointed. And the voice-acting for Adam is cringe-worthy.

Well... At least we got one decent fight. And since there's no sound of glass/ice being shattered, I'm assuming Cinder's still alive.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: v5c13

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Admit it, cRWBY, you just really wanted to bring the Cinder Falls pun to the main show, didn't you?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Well RL has been giving me the bad touch lately and I don't have it in me to do a full review on my new phone so I'm going to do an abridged version for my saint's sake. All spoilers below pertain to Vplume 5 Chapter 13. Ye be warned.

The good:

Spoiler

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-Maidenbowl was pretty great.
Good choreography with an interesting weakness of Cinder's exposed (or rather we get reminded of it). It wasn't perfect but it was undoubtedly the best fight of the volume. And I know I've been saying it a lot, but serious props on the improvement to facial animations. Cinder looks downright deranged through a lot of this fight.

-Blake's confrontation with Adam was just about perfect for whetting the appetite for a more climatic confrontation down the line. Especially if this shatters the grip of terror that Adam has had on her which...could have been conveyed better but it'll do!

-Yang and Blake seeing each other again was a great little emotional moment in a more action packed one.

-Nora's brief encounter with Hazel was pretty good! I didn't think Nora's VA would do such a good job but she did and I'm excited to see Hazel destroy Nora.

-Hazel's cementing as a villain is well done.
Yeah he's a pacifist who wants to destroy the system of huntsmen and huntresses (this is my guess for his real motive with a side of killing Ozpin) but he's also a hypocrite that's willing to justify the death of everyone associated with Ozpin as Ozpin's fault and not his own. Plus he holds a grudge from his momentary icy interaction with Adam indicates. Plus his Semblance is simple but cool.

The bad:

Spoiler

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-the giant sword part of Maidenbowl was a little too silly.

-the main room fight falls apart completely.
At this point I don't think it can recover but I have more in-depth thoughts on that below.

-Mercury, Emerald, and Leo might as well not be here for this fight right now. They don't really serve a purpose beyond Mercury's over confidence letting Ruby show basic hand to hand competence.

Final thoughts:

Spoiler

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It was good! Pacing was solid and the story telling beats were spot on. Half the action wasn't but the other half was above and beyond so...I guess it balances out?

I do think this is the last we'll see of Cinder as a villain though but lemme explain what I mean. Cinder loses her aura as she falls off the cliff and it seems pretty clear that Cinder isn't just iced over (like Raven at the end of the last episode) but frozen all the way through. Maybe Maiden powers save her from actual death but I think she is going to be taking SIGNIFICANT damage from this fight, the freezing, and the fall...and Salem's solution to Cinder's injuries is to Grimmify her. In other words, I think we'll see Cinder again but not really 'Cinder', y'know? Cause Cinder has screwed up big time here.

Here are my non-spoiler thoughts...RWBY volume 6 doesn't come out until the 'Fall' and..I hope they take a little bit more tume than that. Volume 5 hasn't been bad but it does feel...rushed and unpolished. This combined with the rumors of CRWBY being over-worked...it feels clear that RT is getting too ambitious and trying to rush RWBY out to meet fan demand for more. And it has hurt the show a bit combined with RT trying more ambitious things with the story. I want to see RWBY refocus itself down onto a smaller group and work on fine-tuning its new style. Cause things like the main room fight's cost cutting and time saving measures (like just people disappearing when not doing something or each scene being a different 'room' rather than the same one) are hurting what should be a big, climatic finish to the volume. Remember Raven's bandit camp? Do you know they planned out and modeled the ENTIRE camp? ...for a location we barely saw three times and only parts of it at that. That's a lot of time and resources for something barely used. And you can tell CRWBY is trying their best but you can also tell when they take their time and do it right (Blake vs Illya and Maidenbowl)...so take a breather RT. Re-evaluate priorities ans take your time. You have volumes...you are not a weekly running show that needs new material every single week. There is no rush so do it the way we all know you can, because I enjoy RWBY enough to wait for quality and I think others will too.

So yeah..I liked the chapter quite a bit and really needed it after the week I've been having, but RWBY has some kinks it needs to work out and the time between volumes is the perfect time!

[Reddish Mage]

So Miles and Kerry finally did RWBY Rewind and dropped a few things about background.

Spoiler: RWBY Writers drop details of Juane, Hazel, the maidens etc, (possible spoilers, not really)

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Juane’s ability is called aura amplification (at least in-house for now). He has to be very close to a person to do it, although that may change over time.

Hazel’s intravenous use of dust is as “dangerous as it sounds,” that’s where he gets the scars.

They talked about doing something about Summer Rose at one point. They probably won’t.

Although the maidens are named after seasons their powers are not tied to the seasons. Each can use all the magic, and favor elements based on their personality. Cinder favors fire and Raven favors ice so that’s why they use those respective abilities often.

The writers also reveal when they planned various characters and twists.

Raven was planned to be the spring maiden sometime between 1 and 3 “its been long enough we’ve forgot when.” They didn’t reveal it to the rest of the crew until Volume 5.

Hazel, Lionheart and Raven (and “all of these characters”) were all planned as characters since volume 1.

To the question “How far did Monty Oum plan out?” Answer: he didn’t write a book or a guide, they worked together (Monty didn’t write the story alone but talked about his idea with Miles and Kerry over Thai food where they first started taking his idea about girls fighting to turn into a story with like plot points). There were “audibles” like Monty’s idea for the maidens that came later after they created the plotlines (the idea for the maidens was shared during Volume 2) and Miles and Kerry honored.

By the way, I get the feel of exasperation from Miles and Kerry about the idea people have of Monty as the primary author, although they themselves helped mold that idea tha this was Monty’s baby, both initially and after Monty’s death. Really its only when you get into the nitty gritty that you see its as much Miles and Kerry as Monty and most of the meat of the story probably always came from the former. Monty probably dropped ideas and little gems he wanted to put in (and of course ideas for fights he wanted to have) and then the actual writers would morph them into story ideas.

Also, RWBY six is already being planned, they have a meeting tomorrow about it.

[Mechalich]

You have volumes...you are not a weekly running show that needs new material every single week. There is no rush so do it the way we all know you can, because I enjoy RWBY enough to wait for quality and I think others will too.

RWBY is no longer just a web series though and hasn't been for some time. The show streams on Crunchyroll and has been dubbed into Japanese - which means it's showing in Japan somewhere. Even if there aren't actually mandated contractual obligations, there's got to be pressure coming from the partners to have the show conform to a more typical episodic schedule. The show has been to some extent a victim of its own success in this way.

[Reddish Mage]

Rooster Teeth is owned by FullScreen (which is in turn owned by big media companies) which has a certain amount of output and profit expectations. Also, I just noticed that RT is going to be putting out several new animation series gen:LOCK and Nomad of Nowhere.


I am not a big fan of mecha anime but Nomad of Nowhere idea of doing Samurai Jack-esq 2d sounds interesting.

[LaZodiac]

A thought I had. If we're supposed to believe all the characters introduced this season were thought of early on, why was Kahn not mentioned? She was the one who started making the White Fang less good. Blake only ever mentioned Adam. I'm just saying it's suspect, writing wise.

Anyway time to fullfill this blood oath. This time with real blood cause my middle finger is bleeding slightly all day! Appropriate!

Spoiler: V5C13

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We open on the sisters grim fighting off against Mercury and Emerald, and hopefully this should be at least good on Yang's part since there should be a lot of weight to this. Yang's lost her arm because of Mercury, essentially, and she wants payback. Which is of course why Yang goes to fight Emerald and Ruby fights Mercury. Of course. Mercury disarms Ruby...and then taunts her by going "oh what are you going to do nooow?" and then...punches at her. With his weak ass noodle arms because he's the kickboy with guns on his feet. He is the kick assassin and after fully disabling Ruby's ability to fight he took the time out to mock her (in character because he's a **** head but still annoying) and then punch at her. Ruby uses her smolness to headbutt Mercury in the chin, which hurts even though Aura is a thing. Glad to see that hand to hand combat training paid off for this one scene. Mercury says "ow that hurts" and Ruby says in her most impressive attempt to sound intimidating "whatever it takes to shut you up".

It sounds like a bunny nibbling on carrots in a soft fluffy field of grass. And we're talkin' like, easter bunnies, not Watership Down rabbits. Ruby I'm sorry but everything about you, from character design to voice acting, fails to be "I'm an angry badass now" and it's actually kind of laughable.

Meanwhile Nora, continues guarding Jaune the Medic. Also it takes Nora to point out that Jaune's healing Weiss through his aura power. Because Jaune is literally that stupid. Sigh. But Jaune is like "wait no it's changing from yellow to blue, I think that means I'm not healing her I'm just amplifying her aura to heal herself" which is just...stupid. Look, I'm all for making Jaune's healing ability more interesting, and this would let him also be able to use it offensively for buffs and stuff, but...Weiss's aura is broken. While we don't know how long it IS down when it gets broken, we have no reason to assume that's not a pretty lengthy time. There is nothing to amplify here, her Aura is gone right now. If he's adding x3 to it, it's still a zero because she's 0/50 on her Aura bar. Speaking of Aura bars, Nora asks if Jaune is worried about running out and Jaune's like "naw Pyrrha said I have a lot, and I still believe her" which is a sweet sentiment but also just points to another "and we just don't know how this works so we have to nod our heads and assume this is correct" moment. Anyway Weiss wakes up.

And we cut over to Ren, who would be way better at covering Jaune and Weiss, fighting Hazel. And getting his ass kicked by the electro dust charged man. Reminder that he left Nora to go guard the other two. You know, the girl accustomed to fighting huge boys and also immune to electricity. What idiots. Ren gets taken out, and Nora runs off to help after Jaune tells her to do so. So now it's time for the smart thing to happen.

I should clarify, I don't want my heroes to always do the smart thing all the time always. But Ren uses rapid fire weaponry and has the ability to conceal emotion and seemingly presence. That would be way more useful for covering a medic and his target, and even in the heat of the moment Ren's supposed to be that calm under fire type of guy who'd notice that. Nora is also IMMUNE TO LIGHTNING and the only guy left to fight shoved thunder stones into his blood. This is just a way to force some more dumb drama instead of making real stakes.

Jaune tells Weiss she has to stick with him while the others fights and Wiess finds this annoying. I kinda like that exchange.

Meanwhile Lionheart and Hazel continue to beat the **** out of Qrowe and Oscar, two people who they really shouldn't be able to beat at all given what we've been shown and what we know of them, but eeeh Qrowe's bad luck probably doesn't help, and Oscar's still not mastered all of Ozpin's stuff (though it's unclear if Ozpin is in control now or not, he was initially since last episode he took over forcefully).

Nora tries to sneak attack but Hazel takes away her hammer and faceslams her to the ground and starts electrifying her while repeatedly smashing her face into the ground. While ranting about Ozpin being responsible for dead children. Jesus guys we get it, Hazel hit the deep end due to his grief and is evil. He works with satan and shoves magical rocks into his skin to fight we don't need to see him actually brutalize someone. Not that I don't approve of our heroes actually being hurt mind you! I just think this is a little excessive given who Hazel is supposed to be. I liked him better when he was the noble giant who killed only because he had to.

Nora remembers to use her aura power and charges up off Hazel's electricity, using it to throw him off of her and hulk out herself. Ozpin then tells Nora what Hazel's aura power is. It's the ability to block out pain so he can fight however. It's why he's able to fight despite shoving rocks into his arms. I'm not gonna go into why "I FEEL NO PAIN" is actually a MASSIVELY bad thing for a fighter, and instead focus on "Hazel is just some dude how does he have his aura power and Jaune doesn't?". It's kind of ridiculous. Maybe Salem taught him. Which means she's again a better leader than Raven, who apparently has not taught her boys how to use aura despite them being in a profession that explicitly requires it.

Nora's response to this is "I don't need him to hurt!" and...guys. Guys. Stop. This dialogue is atrocious. What does that even mean? She follows it up with "I JUST NEED HIM TO GOOOO DOOOOWN" all dramatic and angry like...and I'll at least give points to Nora's voice actress being actually convincingly angry compared to Ruby's. And then she hammers Hazel really hard so he flies out through the building and out into the courtyard. You know, like they could of done if they wanted to separate the fights. Also this is bad because it's probably gonna cause the White Fang to set off the bombs.

Oh no Hazel is perfectly fine despite that, and takes out more rocks to shove into his arms. I don't really think this is how injecting dust into your system is supposed to work guys. And I know Ozpin said it's unsafe, but I really don't think this would ACTUALLY work. You don't shove radioactive isotopes into your body to gain nuclear powers.

We cut back to inside the room and everyone's just kinda standing around. Mercury and Emerald are no where to be seen and Yang's just kinda kneeling on the ground tired. Did they really beat them off screen? Where did team stupid go? Get back here and fight team also stupid! Ruby gets this really serious moment of looking at how tired everyone is and it's sort of dramatic.

We cut back to Adam, who's just kinda watching this. Not betraying everyone like you'd think he would. But then Blake arrives! They have the typical banter you'd expect that is kinda boring, and Blake reveals her army of normal everyday people. They are all armed with sticks and shields that have the proper White Fang logo on them. How did these people get here? Did Adam really only bring these four guys? I know he expected Illia and the other special forces guys in Zoo to come, but did he really only bring four grunts with him? Also the grunts start recognizing people on the other side and defecting. Adam tries to speechify but then a giant airship rolls in with BlakeMom and the Mistral police on board. Holy **** Adam is getting bodied so hard here. I realize he is support to be this pathetic whiny douchebag fedoralord idiot, but this feels like it's pushing things a bit?

Multiple airships, even!

Meanwhile Ruby is back to fighting Emerald who exists again. Also Ruby is fighting Emerald now instead of Mercury. But all the sky boats are making everyone stop fighting. When they had already stopped fighting because of Hazel. Also Weiss is mostly fully healed now. She's at the very least not going to die.

Adam asks how Blake could of so completely ruined his plans. By not being a ****lord, for one. Blake says it's over, and Adam decides to detonate all the bombs! He takes out the bomb exploder device and...pretends to press it. Because the animation could not actually make his finger press the button, and it's VERY obvious that he cannot actually press the trigger button. Aaah, capital Q Quality. How I missed you. I guess the bombs are all duds now. How the **** did Adam and his entire bad guy White Fang organization lose this hard?

One of Adam's grunts are like "hey yo why are you trying to suicide mission us all?" and he's like "I'M TRYING TO GEY BACK AT HUMANITY FOR WHAT THEY DIIIID" and Blake is like "lol Illia flipped sides because lesbians are stronger than trenchcoats she disarmed your bombs". Did Salem really not have any failsafes on this plan? Did she expect Adam to **** it up or betray her so she made the bombs stupid easy to deal with? What's going on? Half the ****ing season was dedicated to this confrontation.

Hazel, who has juiced up on a second set of rocks by this point, tells Adam "this is your business bye" and leaves to go back to fighting our heroes...who's fight is still in progress but also not? No one is even in the room anymore looking at the scene behind him, but they're still actually there in plot. I realize RT was rushed because they didn't realize making an actual show with a schedule was difficult, but come on guys. Come on.

Adam refuses to give up and attacks Blake! But tis a shadow clone, and Blake side steps and...

She lifts up her hands above her hand, balls them both together, and slams them down on the back of his head.

SHE ****ING CAPTAIN KIRK OVERHANDS HIS STUPID ASS INTO THE GROUND. SHE DUNKS HIS ASS INTO THE CEMENT WITH AN OVERHEAD SWING. WE SPENT HALF THE SEASON ON THIS.

Look. Adam is supposed to be a big deal. I don't MIND the fact that a stupid whiny bitch got taken out like a punk. But he's...SUPPOSED to be bigger than this. HE CHOPPED OFF YANG'S ARM FOR CHRIST SAKE. And he orders his grunts to start shooting everyone...WHICH THEY START DOING?!?

God. What a ****ing stupid EVERYTHING. The entire Faunus subplot has always been bad, always, but what a ****ing mess this season was in particular.

Hazel watches this and is annoyed AND THEN A ****ING HUGE GRAPPLE HOOK STABS HIM IN THE STOMACH AND PULLS HIM BACK INTO THE FIGHT. Again, aura exists right? It still is a thing that matters in this show? Not that it ACTUALLY matters since he's not bleeding out or even really inconvienanced by this. It's Weiss, she summoned the giant bee grimm thing as a bound undead and pulled him in so everyone can murder this man who is arguably not even a bad guy. Yay heroes?

Also because Adam and his four guys are literally defeated off screen Blake is able to just walk into the room to have a dramatic reunion with everyone even though they DIRECTLY drug Hazel into the room to fight him. What is even happening???

Ruby...uses the distraction of Blake (someone that the villains have no real interest or care for) to tell Yang to go run to the vault. Which she does. I don't really get why? Like, team good guys doesn't know there's a traitoring going on downstairs...so as far as they know they've probably already gotten in the vault and have the thing. Raven can teleport so why not just LEAVE AND GIVE THE RELIC TO SALEM. I'll admit, this is a nitpick, but we're just delaying a dramatic reunion that I actually want to see because lesbians are stronger than everyone. Because Blake shouldn't even enter this room until the fighting is done so it can be our denuemont moment. God. Learn some pacing and ordering guys, please.

Emerald faceplants her stupid ass trying to stop Yang, which is hilarious. Yang does get her arm grabbed by Mercury though....and she just thinks her arm off and he stumbles, holding her very expensive one of a kind cyber limb in his hands, unsure what to do with it.

Um, quick question. It doesn't really matter (and honestly I take more umbridge with the fact that she didn't just punch Mercury in the face) but...how does Yang actually remove her arm by just thinking about it? Like, how does that work, logistics speaking? This was originally going to be a complaint about her just letting her arm come off in the middle of a very dangerous fight (which is still true) but like now I'm just curious as to how she DOES that, in a literal sense of "how is that accomplished". The robot limb is like, connected to her nerves and **** right? Wouldn't that hurt? Maybe I'm thinking too much and care too much about this due to FMA and personal reasons, but it just feels really weird and casual to be like "oops my arm fell off".

And all that aside WHY WOULD SHE REMOVE HER ARM IN A BATTLE OF LIFE AND DEATH? Especially when she COULD JUST PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE. Her only means of attacks ARE PUNCHES, also, so like...she's effectively crippled herself. Literally. This doesn't make any sense. Anyway Yang gets into the vault and then Blake leaves to let the others face Mercury Emerald and Hazel. Even though she could easily help out. But she can't because again, as I said above, her reuniting with the team at this moment doesn't actually work story flow wise. Which...why even have her show up then? God this is so confused an episode.

Anyway...down at the vault, Cinder decides that of my options for "how did Raven get the powers?" it's C, the Spring Maiden was a friend and she died, giving Raven the powers. So the two begin fighting and it's not any degree more impressive than a regular RWBY fight because the Maidens still have no real differentiation from regular fighting abilities.

This fight is not bad but I'm just...kinda bored. I'll try not to harp on this but the fights just aren't my thing in this series. Also I wish Cinder's empty eye hole still let out fire, but also I'm glad it doesn't because that'd be aping my **** and I always get a little annoyed when something does an aesthetic or design thing I've had in my head since I was 12 because it makes me look like a copy cat.

Oh hey something interesting. They clash swords and Raven wins, shattering Cinder's blade. A piece gets stuck in her squiggly arm and Raven's like "your aura can't protect your arm, it's Grimm" and I mean...that dialogue is hella clunky but at least it's something. Not that it actually hurts her any. Raven calls Cinder a monster, having thrown away her humanity to gain power. Cinder counts with "no you".

Cinder please. Raven is not a good person, and is genuinely awful an individual. But she's done nothing comparable to literally making a chunk of her body into an anti-life demon monster. It's in character for Cinder to be this stupid, but still. Please. Think before you speak.

They continue to fight and it's very boring. Cinder can just reform her swords and Raven...just has an infinite amount of swords since I guess her sword is a dustblade that uses dust to make a sword blade which is why the colour changes during the fight, but it's not like the sword hits do anything of a specific element and I mean she was seen sharpening the blade at one point and why would you sharpen a magical blade...nothing makes sense and it's just kinda boring. They do this little bit where they each let go of their weapons briefly and each grab the opponents and swing with it for a bit while floating in the air and it's just...so unbelievably stupid and uninteresting to watch. It's certainly impressive from a technical standpoint but I can't tell who's got the advantage and it's just two sword people hitting each other's swords a bunch.

They start getting surrounded by like quarter formed versions of the cool avatar all elements bending ball from Avatar the Last Air Bender which is the only thing of even slight note that seems overly impressive compared to anything anyone's done with just regular dust or aura powers except for Weiss' summons. Then they form the orbs into...oversized katanas. Or at least, Raven's is a katana, Cinder's looks like an iron pipe honestly. There's some aesthetic "stuff" that implies these weapons are specifically designed to look like their season, but given that Fall is fire (which makes no sense) and Spring is ice (which makes no sense. And yes I've read the box Reddish posted about how the RWBYTALK show said all Maidens have the same powers they just use their preferences and spoilers people this is ****ing stupid) it doesn't really work that well. Also I bet in an art book at some point they mention this giant ice sword of spring is called Kikuichimonji. The impact is enough to shake the building.

It also causes the vault to start collapsing maybe, so things get a little risky. Cinder manages to grab Raven with her tentacle hand (not impaling her for some reason) and starts sucking out her wizard juice. Raven tries to fight it off but she only freezes Cinder's legs instead of impaling her or freezing her arm or freezing her eyes or head or you know things that would stop her. And then a giant rock falls on Cinder. This actually does nothing but distract Cinder enough for Raven to jump onto the slowest falling rock of them all so Cinder can jetpack up to fight her on it as it falls Incredibly Slowly for a final climactic duel that would only work in Bayonetta where time actually slows for the world around them to allow this to happen because otherwise this is just impossible.

And also a terrible song starts playing. COOL. At least the fighting area is not JUST that singular falling rock, but instead many slowly falling rocks including faster falling rocks that catch up to the rocks they're on.

Another problem with this fight is I don't want any of these people to win? I like Cinder in the ironic way that her having gotten stared at so hard half her body got destroyed amuses me and I genuinely just dislike Raven entirely. Watching this isn't fun because I do not care about any of these people, really? It'd be different if this was like an introductionary fight to introduce a character, to be like "hey this is a good guy here is their first fight to get hyped for them" but we know enough about Raven and have seen her fight enough that we can't really be won over by New Character feelings. So it's just a fight between two villains. Now mind you I entirely believe Raven's gonna flip to team good guy over this little spat, but we've not really been shown that'll be the case either or, so it still feels kinda...eh. Also how the hell is Yang going to help with any of this?

Also and this is incredibly important WHERE THE **** WAS ALL OF THIS POWER back when Cinder, Mercury, and Emerald attacked the Fall Maiden in the first place? If this is what a maiden is capable of (which honestly doesn't seem TOO impressive compared to regular fighting, but this is WAY more impressive than the fight I'm referencing here) why did Amber just...kinda weakly throw lightning bolts at people and then get killed by three nobodies?

Anyway Cinder's aura is giving out. But so is Raven's! Oh no maybe the next hit will end it? Also it's unclear if their auras are broken or just weak here, because we've yet to really get any concrete examples of how aura works. Especially in this episode, where headbutting someone who's unhurt hurts them and where impaling a man through the stomach doesn't actually leave any marks.

Raven then gives away her entire hand by telling Cinder that if she was strong and smart enough, she should watch her back. The still living Vernal then fires a laser at Cinder, which she deflects...only to let Raven sneak attack her from the back again because now the back is facing her. Raven just chidori's Cinder in the ****ing eye. Specifically the broken part. The rock cover on her face flakes off like paper for some reason...showing that Cinder is not missing half her face and is instead just heavily scared due to a missing eye and was just wearing her paper rock mask. Which had an open eye hole that was completely black implying more missing there but eeeh, design stuff in RWBY. It's always been kinda weird and messy. Also cinder is falling off a cliff to her presumed death. Bye whore.

You know I do like the effect on Cinder's damaged face. It looks pretty good. But the fact that she still has an eyelash on that side of her face bugs me. I wish it was just an eyehole. A gross gaping hole in her head. I want that. Anyway yeah Cinder is definitely not dying here but they're really making it look like she's going to.

...and then Raven ices Cinder up completely with ice as she falls down into the pit of the vault. Meaning that when she lands she's gonna pretty likely shatter into a million pieces. I still heavily doubt Cinder is dead, especially since that means Raven would have two maidens worth of power in here now unless the Grimm in her arm survived and still keeps the power...but yeah no if this is actually where Cinder dies...I mean that's ****ing stupid, and is ANOTHER villain that Ruby has personally been beaten by at every time they've fought that she'll never get to fight in a proper fight and win again that's been killed off unceremoniously. I guess our protagonist doesn't actually matter.

Raven thanks Vernal and walks over to her and oh my god Vernal is super ****ing dead. Her eyes aren't even closed level of dead. She's a ****ing real doll right now and it's super disturbing please close her eyes. Please why would you just leave her eyes open like that animators come on that's ****ing disturbing and just bad. I mean I get it's so Raven can close them all dramatic like but come ooooon. Given the art style this just doesn't work.

Raven opens up the vault door...and it's a portal. To the middle of a ****ing wasteland in the middle of nowhere, where the relic is hidden.

I feel like, if this is how the Relics are ACTUALLY hidden, with the vault just connecting to an incredibly out of reach place...Salem could easily just find these by sending her unending army of grimm to just scour the entire world. It's not like they can die from exhaustion or anything right? She'd find it eventually. Still though...that is a good hiding place. And just before Raven can leave to get the Relic, Yang appears to confront Mom. Episode end.

The episode! My thoughts:

Spoiler: V5C13

Show

Ignoring the fact that I genuinely disliked every single moment of it, the maiden fight was the best part. Everything else had this really off kilter pacing to it that made no sense, and the storybeats played out in a strange quasi functional order that felt like a kids show play where everyone's speaking a bit out of turn or trying to do actions a bit earlier than they're supposed to. It ruins the big reunion of Blake to the rest by having her show up, and then leave when Yang leaves to go confront Mom. Blake should never of seen her friends until after Yang's finished whatever she's doing.

Adam going down like a puss makes sense but is also incredibly infuriating in another sense because this entire season, half of it's run time has been dedicated to a nonsensical and un enjoyable side plot of Blake in Zoo Town and it all culminates to Blake just taking Adam out with an over the head double fist to the back of his face. Adam's four guys deciding to open fire on the two entire armies here to take them in is just stupid, especially considering his guys were clearly about to flip. It feels like an utter waste of time. I'm glad we got some characterization for Blake and some backstory for her, but basically everything else relating to this Faunus plotline continues to basically just be terrible.

All in all a lot of my thoughts on this episode are just confusion in the general sense of "why are things happening the way they are?" which...I mean it reminds me of good ole RWBY, so props to that I suppose. Some parts of it aren't bad, and I feel if the fight with Cinder was a bit better directed and presented I'd of liked it, but overall it's just...more of what RWBY is. If you like it, it's good. If you don't it's "why?".

Also if Cinder is actually dead and Ruby misses out on ANOTHER "show your true self" rival fight I'mma be pissed. Also Ruby did nothing this entire episode and the three goobers upstairs are probably going to be beaten off screen.

One final note: I actually do like the scene the open vault shows us. While I think it's not actually that good a hiding spot considering the unending resources Salem has at her disposal, it's good enough and actually kind of cool, and unexpected in a way that's actually impressive. So yeah, that was nice at least.

After putting spoiler tags I realized this episode is called "Downfall" which means that yeah cinder's like 90% dead so Raven has both maiden powers now or the spring maiden poofed somewhere else because only one maiden power per person unless you have a magical grimm arm. God.