RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales

[LaZodiac]

This makes me want to fire up the game and play through. I haven't played through the story since early access. I need to get a group together though as the game is pretty boring solo. Have they added an "extreme difficulty" mode yet?

I had Wednesday and Friday off, feel free to add my on Steam (I'm LaZodiac) if you want to drag me into this for whatever reason.

[Reddish Mage]

I had Wednesday and Friday off, feel free to add my on Steam (I'm LaZodiac) if you want to drag me into this for whatever reason.

Time to dust off my old 360 controller and power up Steam. Sorry PS4 Grimm Eclipse, you are not needed.

[Reddish Mage]

Noooooooo! I just realized I spent my last Friday on you know, work and stuff, and totally forgot RWBY. Now the stupid deadlines are approaching.....

Also, no RWBY Chibi for awhile.

[LaZodiac]

As much as I do get frustrated with RWBY, at least none of you have tried to tell me straight that all the things that ARE bad about it are actually it's strengths and that all the things good about it are actually bad.

[Silverraptor]

As much as I do get frustrated with RWBY, at least none of you have tried to tell me straight that all the things that ARE bad about it are actually it's strengths and that all the things good about it are actually bad.

Random and out of no where statement...

Why? Did something happen?

[LaZodiac]

Random and out of no where statement...

Why? Did something happen?

I literally had that discussion like, yesterdayish, is why I brought it up

[Callos_DeTerran]

I literally had that discussion like, yesterdayish, is why I brought it up

Like...about RWBY?

Context dammit, give it to us!

[LaZodiac]

Like...about RWBY?

Context dammit, give it to us!

No about Batman the Brave and the Bo-NO OF COURSE RWBY?!?!

WHY ELSE WOULD I POST THIS IN THE RWBY THREAD YOU GOOOFS

[Callos_DeTerran]

No about Batman the Brave and the Bo-NO OF COURSE RWBY?!?!

WHY ELSE WOULD I POST THIS IN THE RWBY THREAD YOU GOOOFS

Because we are the only folks who put up with your shenanigans?

[khadgar567]

Because we are the only folks who put up with your shenanigans?

Yeah. It feals like ragna bloodedge appeared in show and ask cinder her hand on marriage. We need to know what happened

[LaZodiac]

I mean what happened is literally what I said. I got into a conversation with someone on Twitter about RWBY, and their claim was that all the things that make RWBY (particularly it's older seasons) bad (it's uncare for having a good story, it's shoddy animation in Poser, the fact that Monty Oum did not care about anything but for a vehicle for his desire to animate something neat) are actually things that make it good, and that all the changes they've made post Oum (using an actual program to animate, at least trying to story well) are actually bad, because RWBY was supposed to have just been fighting without basically any connecting tissue.

In essence he defended the shows poorer quality at the start by saying it's like a porn, it doesn't matter that the story is bad because the story was never supposed to be good, ergo it is a strength of the show. This is very much one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, and I wanted to share it with you guys, who are reasonable and smart.

[Zmeoaice]

In essence he defended the shows poorer quality at the start by saying it's like a porn, it doesn't matter that the story is bad because the story was never supposed to be good, ergo it is a strength of the show. This is very much one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, and I wanted to share it with you guys, who are reasonable and smart.

He's not wrong. RWBY was a "so bad it's good" type show. Now it's just... bad.

RWBY has always sucked but at least it sucked with style. Having characters stand around and give exposition dumps in what's supposed to be a climatic battle is just bland. Terrible animation is better than no animation.

[LaZodiac]

He's not wrong. RWBY was a "so bad it's good" type show. Now it's just... bad.

RWBY has always sucked but at least it sucked with style. Having characters stand around and give exposition dumps in what's supposed to be a climatic battle is just bland. Terrible animation is better than no animation.

I'd argue incredibly that "my show sucks and that's why it's good" is not a good way of making people think your show is actually good. But then I've never been a big fan of those earlier fight scenes, so any "so bad it's good" quality they had was lost on me.

[Reddish Mage]

As much as I do get frustrated with RWBY, at least none of you have tried to tell me straight that all the things that ARE bad about it are actually it's strengths and that all the things good about it are actually bad.

claim was that all the things that make RWBY (particularly it's older seasons) bad (it's uncare for having a good story, it's shoddy animation in Poser, the fact that Monty Oum did not care about anything but for a vehicle for his desire to animate something neat) are actually things that make it good, and that all the changes they've made post Oum (using an actual program to animate, at least trying to story well) are actually bad, because RWBY was supposed to have just been fighting without basically any connecting tissue.

Having only your account of this twitter-battle I do not like the idea that RWBY begin and end is meant to be as fight porn.

I felt particularly in the first season they put a lot of heart into the characters and stories they told. One negative review I shared many, many threads back claimed that the characters are simply bishojo archetypes (RWBY being moe, Weiss tsundere, Yang yandere, and Blake...uh another tsundere I guess). That sort of analysis sells RWBY far short. RWBY's girls are not anime stereotypes, RWBY as a show is not "Battle Girls" or, I think Zodi mentioned at the time "Freezing."

The idea that RWBY is also meant to be fight porn works in the same vein. There's a lot of anime that are about showing beautiful girls getting into fights, they don't put the sort of effort into story, background, character development and motivating the fantasy as RWBY does. Many of these studios put out one show after another after another in the same vein, even exporting characters from one show into another using very similar looking animations and recycling plots.

Whatever insults you'd like to hurl RWBY, you won't say that. So yes, twitter-user appears to be damning RWBY with low expectations and faint praise.

[LaZodiac]

Having only your account of this twitter-battle I do not like the idea that RWBY begin and end is meant to be as fight porn.

I felt particularly in the first season they put a lot of heart into the characters and stories they told. One negative review I shared many, many threads back claimed that the characters are simply bishojo archetypes (RWBY being moe, Weiss tsundere, Yang yandere, and Blake...uh another tsundere I guess). That sort of analysis sells RWBY far short. RWBY's girls are not anime stereotypes, RWBY as a show is not "Battle Girls" or, I think Zodi mentioned at the time "Freezing."

The idea that RWBY is also meant to be fight porn works in the same vein. There's a lot of anime that are about showing beautiful girls getting into fights, they don't put the sort of effort into story, background, character development and motivating the fantasy as RWBY does. Many of these studios put out one show after another after another in the same vein, even exporting characters from one show into another using very similar looking animations and recycling plots.

Whatever insults you'd like to hurl RWBY, you won't say that. So yes, twitter-user appears to be damning RWBY with low expectations and faint praise.

Not only does it sell it sort it's also WRONG. Yang is not yandere at all, and the word you're looking for for Blake is kudere but ALSO THAT IS WRONG she's JUST ****ING SHY. Stop shoving dere tropes on things people (not directed at you, obviously). And yeah at the time I thought it was as bad as Freezing, which is not correct. Freezing is ****ing awful, RWBY is just kinda...badish, in season 1, but at least it tries.

He is and does! It's really dumb and it's weird to be defending the show by attacking it, and I imagine in his eyes it's weird that I'm attacking the show by defending it. If he'd ever seen an actual "fight porn" show like Killing Bites (which is awful don't watch it ever please I beg you) then he'd probably realize how stupid he is. RWBY season 1 is not terrible, it's just highly mediocre. It tries very hard and doesn't do it for me, but it did at least try.

[Reddish Mage]

Not only does it sell it sort it's also WRONG. Yang is not yandere at all, and the word you're looking for for Blake is kudere but ALSO THAT IS WRONG she's JUST ****ING SHY. Stop shoving dere tropes on things people (not directed at you, obviously). And yeah at the time I thought it was as bad as Freezing, which is not correct. Freezing is ****ing awful, RWBY is just kinda...badish, in season 1, but at least it tries.

He is and does! It's really dumb and it's weird to be defending the show by attacking it, and I imagine in his eyes it's weird that I'm attacking the show by defending it. If he'd ever seen an actual "fight porn" show like Killing Bites (which is awful don't watch it ever please I beg you) then he'd probably realize how stupid he is. RWBY season 1 is not terrible, it's just highly mediocre. It tries very hard and doesn't do it for me, but it did at least try.

Yep, Yang as yandere still tops the list as the most obviously wrong critique of the show I have ever seen in print.

I didn't think you ever thought of RWBY as bad as Freezing. The way things went, I shared a review that equated RWBY to basically another bishojo battle anime soft porn (minus panty shots). At the time I think your words was something to the effect of: no, RWBY is not Freezing.

Anyway, I get the feeling the twitter-guy is looking at RWBY from 4,000 feet and failing to distinguish it from a lot of stock anime. Praising the amateurishness about the first seasons of RWBY puts very low expectations on the material.

I say this as someone who misses Monty fight animation in particular and thinks he could have made really grand things, although I did feel he let things get lost in the middle of season 2.

Also Monty work with something simple like Poser allowed him to do great things by letting his ideas flow freely (without all those hiccups and extra work that a certain someone complained about after leaving the company mid-season 3). However, it was all done on a shoestring budget without the time and resources to have the work thoroughly reviewed and corrected before going up.

We can discuss how things have gone since Monty (I think its a mixed bag myself) but we've been over those points. The lack of finishing and glitches that appeared in the first two seasons was never a highlight, it just never bothered me. I'd just say it points to Monty's talent that he drew such a large following despite not being able to properly polish the work.

[LaZodiac]

Yep, Yang as yandere still tops the list as the most obviously wrong critique of the show I have ever seen in print.

I didn't think you ever thought of RWBY as bad as Freezing. The way things went, I shared a review that equated RWBY to basically another bishojo battle anime soft porn (minus panty shots). At the time I think your words was something to the effect of: no, RWBY is not Freezing.

Anyway, I get the feeling the twitter-guy is looking at RWBY from 4,000 feet and failing to distinguish it from a lot of stock anime. Praising the amateurishness about the first seasons of RWBY puts very low expectations on the material.

I say this as someone who misses Monty fight animation in particular and thinks he could have made really grand things, although I did feel he let things get lost in the middle of season 2.

Also Monty work with something simple like Poser allowed him to do great things by letting his ideas flow freely (without all those hiccups and extra work that a certain someone complained about after leaving the company mid-season 3). However, it was all done on a shoestring budget without the time and resources to have the work thoroughly reviewed and corrected before going up.

We can discuss how things have gone since Monty (I think its a mixed bag myself) but we've been over those points. The lack of finishing and glitches that appeared in the first two seasons was never a highlight, it just never bothered me. I'd just say it points to Monty's talent that he drew such a large following despite not being able to properly polish the work.

My initial thoughts on RWBY before seeing any of it was "Oh I've heard nothing but bad things and it's an all ladies fighting series it's probably as bad as Freezing, a thing I've just heard of recently and made me want to die". After like a third of the way through I realized that was wrong because nothing in it was trying to say "Hey sexual assault committers are good people and you should feel bad for them showing their love for you". Freezing is terrible.

I feel like a lot of Monty's initial push, fanbase wise, for RWBY was just momentum from Dead Fantasy and Haloid. If he hadn't made those and still ended up making RWBY, it would not of lasted past season 1. I feel like that's something you can say definitively.

[Reddish Mage]

I feel like a lot of Monty's initial push, fanbase wise, for RWBY was just momentum from Dead Fantasy and Haloid. If he hadn't made those and still ended up making RWBY, it would not of lasted past season 1. I feel like that's something you can say definitively.

Maybe it was Monty’s following (he was also an active anime convention goer and video game animator). I also think Rooster Teeth has their own built in audience. Regardless of how it got off the ground, people kept watching it. It is now Rooster Teeth’s most popular and prominent property, eclipsing Red vs. Blue. It’s their money maker now.

RT is hardly as big as say, The Cartoon Network, but it has quite a sizable following making it among the biggest internet operations of its type, complete with big pocketed investors. RWBY took a small operation made possible by a gift from Microsoft of a license to broadcast Halo-fan parody, and turned it into a Bonafide-successful business.

RWBY is doing something to deserve its success and popularity.

[The Fury]

I mean what happened is literally what I said. I got into a conversation with someone on Twitter about RWBY, and their claim was that all the things that make RWBY (particularly it's older seasons) bad (it's uncare for having a good story, it's shoddy animation in Poser, the fact that Monty Oum did not care about anything but for a vehicle for his desire to animate something neat) are actually things that make it good, and that all the changes they've made post Oum (using an actual program to animate, at least trying to story well) are actually bad, because RWBY was supposed to have just been fighting without basically any connecting tissue.

In essence he defended the shows poorer quality at the start by saying it's like a porn, it doesn't matter that the story is bad because the story was never supposed to be good, ergo it is a strength of the show. This is very much one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, and I wanted to share it with you guys, who are reasonable and smart.

Is there room in this discussion for someone that isn't reasonable or smart? No? Well, too bad! I'm in anyway!

Anyway, story-wise I'm usually of the opinion that some effort is better than no effort. But with that being said I can sort of see what this guy was talking about. Though it's mainly because the story was always kind of a weak element in RWBY and as it's getting more focus in later seasons, it's a lot easier to notice its flaws. Effort has been put in to make the plot more engaging, sure, but it still feels lacking. The fairly weak story was a problem with older seasons too, though there were things that you could say like "Oh, it's building up to something cool," or "Oh, it's not really about telling a story."

Later seasons can't make those excuses and either succeeds or falls flat on its storytelling chops. In my case, more so the latter.

Animation-wise though? I'm not sure what he's talking about. The fight scenes looked pretty good in the older seasons, but on the whole the animation in the later seasons looks better. At the very least, characters seem less stiff and weird.

Maybe it was Monty’s following (he was also an active anime convention goer and video game animator). I also think Rooster Teeth has their own built in audience. Regardless of how it got off the ground, people kept watching it. It is now Rooster Teeth’s most popular and prominent property, eclipsing Red vs. Blue. It’s their money maker now.

RT is hardly as big as say, The Cartoon Network, but it has quite a sizable following making it among the biggest internet operations of its type, complete with big pocketed investors. RWBY took a small operation made possible by a gift from Microsoft of a license to broadcast Halo-fan parody, and turned it into a Bonafide-successful business.

RWBY is doing something to deserve its success and popularity.

True enough, RWBY did earn a lot of audience goodwill from something it did. I imagine that it probably varies from person to person. I doubt that the majority of the fans were as fascinated as I was by the early 2000s anime dub-style of voice acting.

[Reddish Mage]

the story was always kind of a weak element in RWBY and as it's getting more focus in later seasons, it's a lot easier to notice its flaws. Effort has been put in to make the plot more engaging, sure, but it still feels lacking. The fairly weak story was a problem with older seasons too, though there were things that you could say like "Oh, it's building up to something cool," or "Oh, it's not really about telling a story."

I don’t know what you mean by weak story. Do you just mean the main plot? That story isn’t even in focus most of season 1, yet they are telling stories. Ruby’s orientation, the initiation trial at the forest, Juane’s “arc”, and Blake’s past are each stories told while alluding to something big going on with Torchwick.

Torchwick himself has no background, and what he does is basically cartoon villain, but the actor brings so much flair and style to what he’s doing does it really matter?

Some of my favorite episodes are in season 1 and 2. “Burning the candle” is just a build up to the dance, but the series of short conversations help ground the characters, and the resolution to Blake’s “Blaking” is very touching.

True enough, RWBY did earn a lot of audience goodwill from something it did. I imagine that it probably varies from person to person. I doubt that the majority of the fans were as fascinated as I was by the early 2000s anime dub-style of voice acting.

Please elaborate.

[Zmeoaice]

This is accurate

[Callos_DeTerran]

I'd argue incredibly that "my show sucks and that's why it's good" is not a good way of making people think your show is actually good. But then I've never been a big fan of those earlier fight scenes, so any "so bad it's good" quality they had was lost on me.

I don't know..a fair number of the earlier fight scenes don't age well and I wouldn't trade them for the over all better animation that we have now but even the bad fights from early on have something that current ones really struggle with.

I know I've mentioned it before but Monty Oum just got fight psychology in a way that you don't see that often. And for those who don't know and don't want to google the term, it means telling a story in a fight. Not literally (though that can sometimes be the case) but through the action..and here I reveal my nerd cred because I watch a lot of wrestling and fight psychology can make the biggest difference in it. Its just little things like having someone target an opponent's limb because whatever the finishing move is will involve that weak point or a shown progression of systematic attacks to say the head to disorient a fighter to hitting leg in the right ways to chop down a larger fighter so you can effectively hurt them (and showing that NOT doing that gets the smaller fighter hurt). So on and so forth. You see some great fight psychology in the people vs. people fights in early RWBY and the clearest one is in the Yellow trailer where you can watch Yang isolate one opponent by blitzing the one she has less to worry about before shifting from the defensive (because of her shorter reach) to guiding her opponent's actions with superior footwork until she can KO her opponent. Monty was REALLY good at that and the new team has...uh...they've struggled with it.

They try to do Monty's style without really grasping it so they try to fill in the cracks with normal anime fight style but those things just...just don't mesh so well. They got the mix down right pretty much once before going full anime for Maidenbowel and its telling because when they went full anime, we got a good fight! When they got the mix right (Tyrian vs. Qrowe) we got a good fight.

Aside from against people though, Monty had trouble making the fights good in the same way. Pretty much the only example of a good Grim fight in early RWBY is the battle against the Deathstalker and Nevermore.

[The Fury]

I don’t know what you mean by weak story. Do you just mean the main plot? That story isn’t even in focus most of season 1, yet they are telling stories. Ruby’s orientation, the initiation trial at the forest, Juane’s “arc”, and Blake’s past are each stories told while alluding to something big going on with Torchwick.

Torchwick himself has no background, and what he does is basically cartoon villain, but the actor brings so much flair and style to what he’s doing does it really matter?

Some of my favorite episodes are in season 1 and 2. “Burning the candle” is just a build up to the dance, but the series of short conversations help ground the characters, and the resolution to Blake’s “Blaking” is very touching.

I mean that the story in the early seasons wasn't particularly strong but it seemed fine because it was a fairly simple one. Though like you pointed out, it did have some good plot beats here and there. Maybe it would be more accurate for me to say the story was "uncomplicated" rather than "weak."

The later Seasons weren't all that strong either, but it was more out of questionable writing decisions. I never really bothered to dig into them, because I'm sure that much has been made of them in this thread already. By sharper minds than mine too, no doubt. Again, some bits were actually handled well. I actually liked how Yang needed to overcome the trauma of losing an arm and having Blake bail when she needed her the most. It didn't quite make up for the otherwise pretty mediocre writing in my eyes.

Please elaborate.

It's difficult to be specific on what makes people gravitate towards particular titles since not everyone likes media for the same reasons. Though I will say that RWBY has had and still does have a lot of style. Maybe style is the thing that it gets super right as a series?

[Reddish Mage]

The later Seasons weren't all that strong either, but it was more out of questionable writing decisions. I never really bothered to dig into them, because I'm sure that much has been made of them in this thread already

You tell a story of the first seasons being good for their simplicity but then things get complicated.

Its not a complicated analysis. The first seasons were relatively simple narratively. Things start getting more complicated with season 3. Four and Five split the narratives. If you find it slower and more difficult to follow its not surprising.

It's difficult to be specific on what makes people gravitate towards particular titles since not everyone likes media for the same reasons. Though I will say that RWBY has had and still does have a lot of style. Maybe style is the thing that it gets super right as a series?

I meant to explain early 2000's anime dub style and how you identify RWBY with that particular style.

[LaZodiac]

You tell a story of the first seasons being good for their simplicity but then things get complicated.

Its not a complicated analysis. The first seasons were relatively simple narratively. Things start getting more complicated with season 3. Four and Five split the narratives. If you find it slower and more difficult to follow its not surprising.



I meant to explain early 2000's anime dub style and how you identify RWBY with that particular style.

Early 2000s anime where just on the cusp of it being a medium people accepted as good, but not on the degree where everyone in the crew could be up to snuff. Leaving the era of gems like Dragonball Z and flops like basically any other anime I can think of, to a more modern time of anime getting people who CAN act, some of the times, as well as getting Jeff from janitorial to voice this character who oops turned out to be plot important rip.

Compare modern dubes to old 90s dub, and imagine the middle point of those.

[Reddish Mage]

Early 2000s anime where just on the cusp of it being a medium people accepted as good, but not on the degree where everyone in the crew could be up to snuff.

Essentially what you are saying for style is there is: Current - Good, 90’s - bad, and 2000’s - meh. I think there are specific technical details that differ.

For example, Japanese dubs are done in group to facilitate a group energy. English dubs are done one at a time in the sound booth to get precision. Japanese dubs tend to be higher pitched than English dubs, especially for the girls.

There are a ton of detail that goes into how a dub is performed those details matter as to what the final product sounds like and how it syncs with the video.

I imagine the Fury was referring to certain tendency towards inflection, emotional expression, use of certain word or phrases, pacing etc.

Otherwise calling RWBY “fascinating” by having a 2000’s era dub style is just a stealth way of saying “I watch it because its meh.”

[LaZodiac]

I mean that's the general idea of it yeah. If you watch something from the 80s, even the good stuff like Dragon Ball Z, you can tell it's just got a different feel from modern stuff. I think it's fascinating, and I think RWBY's first season definitely fell into that middle area of "we have some idea of what we're doing, with mixed results".

I don't think "meh" is the right term. More...average?

[The Fury]

You tell a story of the first seasons being good for their simplicity but then things get complicated.

Its not a complicated analysis. The first seasons were relatively simple narratively. Things start getting more complicated with season 3. Four and Five split the narratives. If you find it slower and more difficult to follow its not surprising.

I'm not so sure about that. I'll be the first to admit that I don't follow stories extremely well and I'm a little slow-witted, so I'll be up front and say that there is a good chance that I got less enjoyment out of Seasons 4 and 5 just because I didn't try hard enough to understand them. But questions about the villains' leadership that never felt properly addressed started to pile up Like how does Raven keep the loyalty of someone like Vernal despite being the sort of person that allows her underlings to die as soon as they're no longer useful? Not only that, why was Vernal willing to act as a decoy? For that matter, how did Adam keep the White Fang as loyal to him as long as he did? When he seized power, did anyone say, "Hold on, are we just helping the boss get back at his ex? This is ridiculous! I never signed up for this!"

Then there's the whole White Fang chestnut. Beyond what's already been said, by the end of Season 5 I found myself wondering even more questions. Like is the White Fang the only Faunus rights advocacy group? Are there others that are less sketchy? Are there no human Faunus rights advocates? If not, why not?

I meant to explain early 2000's anime dub style and how you identify RWBY with that particular style.

Oh, sorry. I mean that the voice acting really does sound like an anime dub that Media Blasters, Manga Entertainment or a similar localization company might have done from that period. Not a parody, but actually pretty close to the actual thing. Anime dubs from the early 2000s had a pretty bombastic and overwrought style that's difficult to decribe but a lot of my friends found off-putting. these were usually the dubs that you had to put the Japanese audio with English subtitles on if you wanted anyone to watch it with you. To me, RWBY sounds like this and I've been wondering how deliberate it was since Season 1. If it really was 100% on purpose, then it's amazingly faithful and that's really interesting.

I imagine the Fury was referring to certain tendency towards inflection, emotional expression, use of certain word or phrases, pacing etc.

Yeah, that's pretty close to what I meant.

[Reddish Mage]

I mean that's the general idea of it yeah. If you watch something from the 80s, even the good stuff like Dragon Ball Z, you can tell it's just got a different feel from modern stuff.

This is true of every aspect of the anime. What I find amazing is that stories like original Dragon Ball (I think Z started in the 90’s) has a very old-style feel to it down to the special effects. In some ways it reminds me of what I would expect a Hannah Barbara cartoon of the period (but distinctly Japanese).

Anime dubs from the early 2000s had a pretty bombastic and overwrought style that's difficult to decribe

Bombastic and overwrought sounds like clear descriptions. I’m not sure I follow how RWBY is that far out there. Perhaps if you compared it to a few anime from that period?

Also, my experience is that a lot of people refuse to watch English dubs regardless of the era. I’ve never had friends pin down which they refuse and percisely why except perhaps “this guy is annoyingly hi-pitched” or some such.

I'll be up front and say that there is a good chance that I got less enjoyment out of Seasons 4 and 5 just because I didn't try hard enough to understand them. But questions about the villains' leadership that never felt properly addressed started to pile up Like how does Raven keep the loyalty of someone like Vernal despite being the sort of person that allows her underlings to die as soon as they're no longer useful? Not only that, why was Vernal willing to act as a decoy? For that matter, how did Adam keep the White Fang as loyal to him as long as he did? When he seized power, did anyone say, "Hold on, are we just helping the boss get back at his ex? This is ridiculous! I never signed up for this!"

Then there's the whole White Fang chestnut. Beyond what's already been said, by the end of Season 5 I found myself wondering even more questions. Like is the White Fang the only Faunus rights advocacy group? Are there others that are less sketchy? Are there no human Faunus rights advocates? If not, why not?

Ah, that sounds like a problem unique to the people on these forums. I see it all the time: complaints about the logic of the story.

When people complain that some aspect of the story makes no sense or is unrealistic I usually find that the complaint is highly idiosyncratic. There’s lots of common story material that just doesn’t make sense. World-spanning conspiracies that are omnipresent yet no one notices? Far-fetched, but common place. Also, they’ll do things like have ninjas appear out of nowhere in full getup and have big fights but it all disappears the next day and there’s no mention or memory that it happened. Then there’s the idea that a couple of young kids can conduct a casual investigation and instantly find the answers that elude the professionals and the adults.

These are just a few boxes RWBY happens to check (the openly fighting conspiracies can also be found in all the Marvel movies and Netflix) but no one complains about that sort of thing. What they complain about are always things that everyone else would have missed if it wasn’t brought up.

In your case, I’m not sure the examples you have hold water: Raven has indicated she is EXTREMELY loyal to her bandit tribe and put them first in all things, including her own flesh and blood. She may have killed Spring, but Spring wasn’t tribe, she was an outsider like everyone else the tribe prey on. Vernal is tribe. Its not surprising that Raven’s attitude would be reflected in her henchwoman. This is so explicit and repeatedly say I would even say this is central to who Raven is and how she commands loyalty.

As far as Adam goes as a leader. The minute he reveals he has a personal agenda to his underlings, they talk about replacing him! He obviously has not openly made his ulterior motives widely known. They sided with Adam over Sienna percisely because Adam was adopting a more aggressive pure form of the violent strategy Sienna first espoused, and the White Fang saw results like they have never seen.

Also you want to ask why there are no non-white fang faunus right groups? You might as well ask why there are only four hunter academies in the entire world and no comparable fighting schools. For simplicity! If there were a dozen Faunus rights organizations they would have to spend time identifying each.

I suspect these minor incongruities are not the real problems that you have with the story. These sort of liberties are found in almost every similar story in the genre. Heck it common to see evil organizations headed by people that casually kill underlings, but somehow get loyalty despite that (or they seem to imply because of that).

More likely, you are thinking about these “incongruities” (whether real or not) because you weren’t engrossed with the story to begin with and didn’t notice or remember the details. This is like how Zodi saw certain already mentioned fundamental details about aura and semblance as new in the late-Season 5 training scene, and questioned why they were only mentioning it now.

[LaZodiac]

More likely, you are thinking about these “incongruities” (whether real or not) because you weren’t engrossed with the story to begin with and didn’t notice or remember the details. This is like how Zodi saw certain already mentioned fundamental details about aura and semblance as new in the late-Season 5 training scene, and questioned why they were only mentioning it now.

In my defense they didn't explain it well at all, because they had no interest in actually explaining it. It's as much my fault as theirs.

I'll be honest though, there's always going to be a degree of "figure it out yourself" in shows, and I'm always unsure how much I should use for it. For example a ton of great series have pretty heavy subtext on how and why some things happen, if you just look at them. Should I dismiss RWBY's attempts at subtext just because the overall quality is bad, because "well since it IS bad there's a high chance they didn't leave it open to interpretation they're just bad".

Did RWBY not explicitly state some of the details of how Aura works because it's letting you figure it out, or did they do it because they didn't care. It can be hard to tell, and the only way to really be sure to to compare it to the overall quality of the show. Thus my problem, it's hard to invest myself in and theorize with RWBY's earlier seasons because they kinda suck, so I have been given no reason to assume they put any thought into it so why should I?

To provide an example of this:

Spoiler: Marvel's Agents of Shield season 1

Show

Grant Ward's acting in the first half of season 1 of Agents of Shield is kind of bad. But then the Hydra reveal happens and we see he's actually a secret bad guy who's been faking being that sort of generic main character type to get in with the group. Was this intentional? Yes, factually. Was the bad acting on his actor intentional as part of his adjusting in universe to the new group so he can better be part of them? Probably! But if you think the show sucks you probably won't consider it as such, you'll just hate the bad acting for being bad acting. I like the show, so I always felt it was meant to show this lone wolf guy just has difficulty adjusting to working with others. Which turned out to be what they were going for and then some!

The quality of a show directly determines how much enjoyment you get from investing mental work into it, I suppose, and I'd like it if they did more of the heavy lifting so that we at least know some concrete ideas.