RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales

[The Fury]

Both Torchwick and Sienna going out like they did left a bad taste in the mouth. The thing is, even if the writers didn't mean for them to be jokes, that's the context that they work best in.

Looking at Roman in specific, leaving aside his supposed role in Ruby's character arc, he was just a better written villain than what we got in the material that followed. While Roman could be threatening, funny or charming as the situation required, most of the other bad guys are pretty one-note. In Salem's inner circle, we got a cackling madman, a smug mustache, a dime-store Azula, and Salem herself, who comes off as a generic doomsday villain with a spoopy character design. There's not anything inherently wrong with those characterizations, it's just that they're not written with any greater depth beyond those basic traits, so they're just not all that memorable. Then there's Adam... I think I've made my view on him pretty clear-- I think he's boring.

But hey, there are some villains that are written with a little bit more to them. Not a lot, but something. There's Hazel, who comes off as a guy holding onto a lot of repressed anger, which is interesting, even if the thing he's angry about ended up feeling like a bit of a cop-out. Then there's Emerald and Mercury, who like Roman are written with enough personality that they can do things like be amiable and crack jokes.

Sienna... she was more of a symptom of Volume 5's "first draft script" feel. I'd imagine the whole debacle with her would have been cut if there were rewrites. As it is, her contribution to the series can be summed up in less than a paragraph and only showed up to demonstrate, as Calemyr said, how Adam ascended to a position that we were lead to assume he already had.

[Reddish Mage]

I think you give Roman too many separate traits. He is threatening, charming and funny...all at once. The elaborately designed ...cockney gangster is it? Works well partly because it’s well acted.

Both Emerald and Mercury come off as bad crowd bored teenagers (mean). I notice Emerald has something else going on, particularly recently, but it’s new and we don’t get much.

Cinder does have several sides to her - the boss, the injured side, the vengeful side, the master’s apprentice.

At the end of the day I think you are feeling Roman’s richness in his expressions, and the novelty of a character type we don’t see too often.

[LaZodiac]

Unrelated but someone crunched the numbers and...according to all the information we have.

Blake left with Adam when she was 12 and he was 18.

For ****s sake.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Both Torchwick and Sienna going out like they did left a bad taste in the mouth. The thing is, even if the writers didn't mean for them to be jokes, that's the context that they work best in.

Looking at Roman in specific, leaving aside his supposed role in Ruby's character arc, he was just a better written villain than what we got in the material that followed. While Roman could be threatening, funny or charming as the situation required, most of the other bad guys are pretty one-note. In Salem's inner circle, we got a cackling madman, a smug mustache, a dime-store Azula, and Salem herself, who comes off as a generic doomsday villain with a spoopy character design. There's not anything inherently wrong with those characterizations, it's just that they're not written with any greater depth beyond those basic traits, so they're just not all that memorable. Then there's Adam... I think I've made my view on him pretty clear-- I think he's boring.

But hey, there are some villains that are written with a little bit more to them. Not a lot, but something. There's Hazel, who comes off as a guy holding onto a lot of repressed anger, which is interesting, even if the thing he's angry about ended up feeling like a bit of a cop-out. Then there's Emerald and Mercury, who like Roman are written with enough personality that they can do things like be amiable and crack jokes.

The thing that bothers me about Roman is that I don't see the well-written villain that everyone else does. He has all the same problems that most of the other villains does, the big benefit he gets is focus (Which Cinder eventually got and it did wonders) and an admittedly great performance by his VA. That guy was having a blast and it carried through into Roman to give the guy personality that his dialogue didn't do the best at. A case of the performer elevating the material that he was given.

Cinder became a better villain by getting her arse handed to her by a plot point. That's when she stops being a dime-store Azula and becomes her own villain by, funnily enough, proving not to be the biggest dog at the table. Her comrades openly deride and poke fun at her, her 'Fire Lord' figure coddles her like she can't take care of herself, and for someone who wants to be feared. Who wants power...well..we see how it rankles her but at the same time she's trying to learn from her boss.

Salem is far from generic in just how...its hard to put into words. We know more about Salem because of how others react to her and how at odds it is with the person we actually see. For all the talk about how she wants to wipe out the schools and get the relics, we don't see the ruthless and terrifying force. We see a surprisingly reasonable and capable leader that inspires an alarming loyalty in her followers that we only catch glimpses of the reason for. Tyrian is reduced to an emotional wreck at the idea of failing her and her reaction to it. Cinder wants to be what Salem is. Hazel sees her as a vehicle to get his revenge on Oz. And Watts isn't as smug as he seems, considering how he turns on Cinder for altering the plan when that character type is usually the treacherous type. Plus there's the fact she somehow is the cause of Ozpin's curse.

[Fyraltari]

I think you give Roman too many separate traits. He is threatening, charming and funny...all at once. The elaborately designed ...cockney gangster is it? Works well partly because it’s well acted.

At the end of the day I think you are feeling Roman’s richness in his expressions, and the novelty of a character type we don’t see too often.

I kind have a hard time seeing Roman has anything else than a rip-off/hommage (depending on my mood) of A Clockwork Orange's Alex.

Unrelated but someone crunched the numbers and...according to all the information we have.

Blake left with Adam when she was 12 and he was 18.

For ****s sake.

The Hell?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Unrelated but someone crunched the numbers and...according to all the information we have.

Blake left with Adam when she was 12 and he was 18.

For ****s sake.

This is why incessant poking at the details is a bad thing, it brings up things like this, true or not.

...Also I question that match, Adam and Blake are very close to the same age from what I can tell and Blake is either close to eighteen or eighteen by this point. I would very much doubt there is a six year difference between the two.

[LaZodiac]

This is why incessant poking at the details is a bad thing, it brings up things like this, true or not.

...Also I question that match, Adam and Blake are very close to the same age from what I can tell and Blake is either close to eighteen or eighteen by this point. I would very much doubt there is a six year difference between the two.

The CRWBY have said that Adam is six years older than her, straight up. It's been mentioned Ghira resigned around 5 or 6 years ago, and Blake left with Adam and the rest at that time as well. The girls are all 17/18 during Beacon except for Ruby, who is younger by a bit. The details have all been laid out.

[Lethologica]

Ghira left the White Fang, and Blake ran off to fight, when she was ~12. We don't actually know when her relationship with Adam went from "mentor-apprentice" to boyfriend-girlfriend (both characterizations cRWBY have used). It'd still be skeezy at 16, but a lot less so than at 12.

[Celestia]

Ghira left the White Fang, and Blake ran off to fight, when she was ~12. We don't actually know when her relationship with Adam went from "mentor-apprentice" to boyfriend-girlfriend (both characterizations cRWBY have used). It'd still be skeezy at 16, but a lot less so than at 12.

If I had to guess, I'd say probably 14-15. Adam is a skeez, so I bet he'd jump on that as soon as Blake showed even the slightest interest.

[Reddish Mage]

Unrelated but someone crunched the numbers and...according to all the information we have.

Blake left with Adam when she was 12 and he was 18.

For ****s sake.

Blake stayed in the White Fang after her parents left when she was about 12. We don't know when Blake/Adam's relationship took off but there's no reason to assume it happened immediately from what I know.

This is why incessant poking at the details is a bad thing, it brings up things like this, true or not.

...Also I question that match, Adam and Blake are very close to the same age from what I can tell and Blake is either close to eighteen or eighteen by this point. I would very much doubt there is a six year difference between the two.

While I agree on the point that poking at certain things is a bad thing (basically sore points - Roman's death being the one we're focused on now), you can't tell age in this cartoon.

[Rater202]

Unrelated but someone crunched the numbers and...according to all the information we have.

Blake left with Adam when she was 12 and he was 18.

For ****s sake.

Ages in Ruby are notably inconstant--Ruby is supposed to be 15 in Volume 1 and 16 in Volume 4 but going by her stated Birthday(October 31st) and assuming that Beacon uses the Gregorian Calendar she would have had to have started at 14 and turned 15 with no fanfare during Volume 1 in order for her to be 16 by Volume 4 and even that's pushing it a little bit.

But uh, yeah.

Blake and Adam were depicted as a toxic relationship. Adam hooking up with her despite knowing and mentoring her as a preteen would be in support of that depiction.

[LaZodiac]

Ages in Ruby are notably inconstant--Ruby is supposed to be 15 in Volume 1 and 16 in Volume 4 but going by her stated Birthday(October 31st) and assuming that Beacon uses the Gregorian Calendar she would have had to have started at 14 and turned 15 with no fanfare during Volume 1 in order for her to be 16 by Volume 4 and even that's pushing it a little bit.

But uh, yeah.

Blake and Adam were depicted as a toxic relationship. Adam hooking up with her despite knowing and mentoring her as a preteen would be in support of that depiction.

We can pretty safely say they PROBABLY don't use the gregorian calendar, but fair point.

Just because it's toxic doesn't mean we have to go THAT far.

[The Fury]

Unrelated but someone crunched the numbers and...according to all the information we have.

Blake left with Adam when she was 12 and he was 18.

For ****s sake.

Huh. I wonder if any of the Kingdoms of Remnant have a Romeo and Juliet law. Maybe they had a "pre-existing foundational relationship." Aaand insert that infamous Transformers clip here.

Jokes aside, I'm going to chalk this up to a timeline gaffe. I mean, I hope that's what it is.

The thing that bothers me about Roman is that I don't see the well-written villain that everyone else does. He has all the same problems that most of the other villains does, the big benefit he gets is focus (Which Cinder eventually got and it did wonders) and an admittedly great performance by his VA. That guy was having a blast and it carried through into Roman to give the guy personality that his dialogue didn't do the best at. A case of the performer elevating the material that he was given.

In any case, Roman was memorable a way that other arc villains aren't, and that's frustrating. I would agree that how the part was acted did play a pretty big role in making the character one of the standouts though.

Cinder became a better villain by getting her arse handed to her by a plot point. That's when she stops being a dime-store Azula and becomes her own villain by, funnily enough, proving not to be the biggest dog at the table. Her comrades openly deride and poke fun at her, her 'Fire Lord' figure coddles her like she can't take care of herself, and for someone who wants to be feared. Who wants power...well..we see how it rankles her but at the same time she's trying to learn from her boss.

Ehh... I'd be more willing to give credit for developing the character if that development stuck. In Volume 4, Cinder shows up with a damaged voice, a disfigured face and seemingly a lot to learn. In Volume 5 it's just classic Cinder all over again, putting on airs. Only now she's got a messed-up face, (again, I blame the "first draft" feel of this Volume.)

Salem is far from generic in just how...its hard to put into words. We know more about Salem because of how others react to her and how at odds it is with the person we actually see. For all the talk about how she wants to wipe out the schools and get the relics, we don't see the ruthless and terrifying force. We see a surprisingly reasonable and capable leader that inspires an alarming loyalty in her followers that we only catch glimpses of the reason for. Tyrian is reduced to an emotional wreck at the idea of failing her and her reaction to it. Cinder wants to be what Salem is. Hazel sees her as a vehicle to get his revenge on Oz. And Watts isn't as smug as he seems, considering how he turns on Cinder for altering the plan when that character type is usually the treacherous type. Plus there's the fact she somehow is the cause of Ozpin's curse.

Yeah, I'll admit it... I don't see it at all. To me, Salem never seemed to have anything going on except for "she's powerful," and "she's scary," and the way the other characters treated her never gave me anything beyond that. There's little snippets dropped about her personality I guess, like how she uses people until they're used-up. I've been operating under the assumption that she can find use for her underlings as long as they're loyal. I'm guessing that's why she let Tyrian live and offed Lionheart. But again, I'm guessing.

[LaZodiac]

Jokes aside, I'm going to chalk this up to a timeline gaffe. I mean, I hope that's what it is.

Yeah, I'll admit it... I don't see it at all. To me, Salem never seemed to have anything going on except for "she's powerful," and "she's scary," and the way the other characters treated her never gave me anything beyond that. There's little snippets dropped about her personality I guess, like how she uses people until they're used-up. I've been operating under the assumption that she can find use for her underlings as long as they're loyal. I'm guessing that's why she let Tyrian live and offed Lionheart. But again, I'm guessing.

RT is genuinely stupid enough that I do not actually have any belief they did it on purpose. I would believe fully that they're just too stupid to realize the times they gave for every event causes it to be overly creepy. Still wouldn't put money on that bet though.

The only real thing Salem has going for her is so far she's been reasonably smart compared to the other villains. The only time she's done a stereotypical ****ty idiot villain thing is when she dealt with Lionheart, though making mistakes isn't BAD for characterization it just feels counter to her behavior earlier. The big thing that really made me like Salem initially is that Steampunk Doctor rips on Cinder for "failing" and Salem tells him to **** off because no, she didn't FAIL. She SUCCEEDED, but got very hurt due to unforseen circumstances, so check yourself fool. To me, that made it seem like they were going an interesting route with Salem, ie that she's...actually competent in the same way Ozpin is.

[The Fury]

The only real thing Salem has going for her is so far she's been reasonably smart compared to the other villains. The only time she's done a stereotypical ****ty idiot villain thing is when she dealt with Lionheart, though making mistakes isn't BAD for characterization it just feels counter to her behavior earlier. The big thing that really made me like Salem initially is that Steampunk Doctor rips on Cinder for "failing" and Salem tells him to **** off because no, she didn't FAIL. She SUCCEEDED, but got very hurt due to unforseen circumstances, so check yourself fool. To me, that made it seem like they were going an interesting route with Salem, ie that she's...actually competent in the same way Ozpin is.

Yeah, I'll admit that Salem telling off Smugstache was good. It did also show that she's willing to look at outcomes of her schemes beyond how they appear on the surface. Not all that much has been done to build on that yet though, and I still feel like she's a character without that much interest to her.

I also feel like you're probably spot on with the Ozpin comparison. Wizard of Oz references aside, I think the writers intend for Salem to be a foil to Ozpin. So... maybe this'll go somewhere?

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, I'll admit that Salem telling off Smugstache was good. It did also show that she's willing to look at outcomes of her schemes beyond how they appear on the surface. Not all that much has been done to build on that yet though, and I still feel like she's a character without that much interest to her.

I also feel like you're probably spot on with the Ozpin comparison. Wizard of Oz references aside, I think the writers intend for Salem to be a foil to Ozpin. So... maybe this'll go somewhere?

Lets be fair here I said comparatively. Salem is like rotwater in the desert. It's preferable to dying of thirst and little else. Salem is one of the characters I do actually have slight hopes for, though. They clearly have an intended Thing with her.

[The Fury]

Lets be fair here I said comparatively. Salem is like rotwater in the desert. It's preferable to dying of thirst and little else. Salem is one of the characters I do actually have slight hopes for, though. They clearly have an intended Thing with her.

Fair enough. I guess on that note, Raven's arc was handled comparatively well, and there seems to be a direction for her to go in, (maybe she'll turn face?)

[Callos_DeTerran]

Huh. I wonder if any of the Kingdoms of Remnant have a Romeo and Juliet law. Maybe they had a "pre-existing foundational relationship." Aaand insert that infamous Transformers clip here.

Jokes aside, I'm going to chalk this up to a timeline gaffe. I mean, I hope that's what it is.

In all honesty it could be as simple as Blake wasn't dating Adam when she first went with him, it only happened much later on and the relationship wasn't very long, just based of her admiration that she held previously.

But its honestly probably a timeline gaffe.

In any case, Roman was memorable a way that other arc villains aren't, and that's frustrating. I would agree that how the part was acted did play a pretty big role in making the character one of the standouts though.

It might just be the type of media that I tend to consume, but Roman doesn't stand out to me that much as particularly memorable aside from the performance itself. That's part of why I'm dumbfounded as to why so many people remember him fondly. And why I enjoy Hazel, Tyrian, and so on more than Roman.

Ehh... I'd be more willing to give credit for developing the character if that development stuck. In Volume 4, Cinder shows up with a damaged voice, a disfigured face and seemingly a lot to learn. In Volume 5 it's just classic Cinder all over again, putting on airs. Only now she's got a messed-up face, (again, I blame the "first draft" feel of this Volume.)

Thing is, that's consistent for Cinder's character. Even when she's with Salem and being mentored, she's always second guessing Salem's actions with the more brutish and heavy handed methods Cinder is known for and its obvious for as much as she wants to be like Salem, she fundamentally doesn't get it. And in the end it gets her 'killed'.

Yeah, I'll admit it... I don't see it at all. To me, Salem never seemed to have anything going on except for "she's powerful," and "she's scary," and the way the other characters treated her never gave me anything beyond that. There's little snippets dropped about her personality I guess, like how she uses people until they're used-up. I've been operating under the assumption that she can find use for her underlings as long as they're loyal. I'm guessing that's why she let Tyrian live and offed Lionheart. But again, I'm guessing.

Its a fair take but I just like the inter-play between her opponents being scared of her and her allies adoring her. Its not often a combination that you see, or at least I haven't. It reminds me of All for One from MHA honestly and All for One is one of my favorite villains of recent memory. Salem for the same reasons, I hold no illusions that there's probably nothing concrete behind the mystery and impression that they've given her, but it doesn't change the fact she DOES leave an impression and have a solid and intriguing air of mystery around her. For me anyway.

[Fyraltari]

I enjoy Hazel, Tyrian, and so on more than Roman.

Enjoying Hazel I get but Tyrian?
That character looks utterly one-dimensionnal to me. Then again I can't stand the "giggling homicidal maniac" archetype either so maybe that's just me.
What are you seeing that I missed?

[The Fury]

It might just be the type of media that I tend to consume, but Roman doesn't stand out to me that much as particularly memorable aside from the performance itself. That's part of why I'm dumbfounded as to why so many people remember him fondly. And why I enjoy Hazel, Tyrian, and so on more than Roman.

I'll admit that it's possible that the way Torchwick's role is performed could be coloring my perception on the the character more favorably. Maybe if RWBY were a comic or series of novels I'd agree with you, but as it's an animated video series, performance counts for a lot.

Thing is, that's consistent for Cinder's character. Even when she's with Salem and being mentored, she's always second guessing Salem's actions with the more brutish and heavy handed methods Cinder is known for and its obvious for as much as she wants to be like Salem, she fundamentally doesn't get it. And in the end it gets her 'killed'.

I don't think I understand you here. The way I always understood Cinder's arc is that she craves power for power's sake, she meets Salem and decides that she wants to be like her because she's powerful. Then she suffers a humiliating defeat, seems to acknowledge that she has a lot to learn, then doesn't learn anything.

Its a fair take but I just like the inter-play between her opponents being scared of her and her allies adoring her. Its not often a combination that you see, or at least I haven't. It reminds me of All for One from MHA honestly and All for One is one of my favorite villains of recent memory. Salem for the same reasons, I hold no illusions that there's probably nothing concrete behind the mystery and impression that they've given her, but it doesn't change the fact she DOES leave an impression and have a solid and intriguing air of mystery around her. For me anyway.

I sort of see the point of comparison here, in that both Salem and All for One are evil mentors to major antagonist. Though their methods aren't all that similar. All for One grooms Shigaraki for a particular role, gives him the means to fulfill that role and turns him loose. Also, what All for One requires of his protegé is pretty general-- be a bad guy, raise hell. Salem seems a lot more "hands on," and it seems like what she has in mind for Cinder is more specific-- open a gate, get a relic.

The mysterious point seems to be one where our tastes differ. I can appreciate it if I can believe that there's something to it, otherwise I... don't. If I had to craft any kind of speculation on what Salem's agenda is, I'd have to pretty much make up everything. I might feel differently if I could even make an educated guess as to what the relics do.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Enjoying Hazel I get but Tyrian?
That character looks utterly one-dimensionnal to me. Then again I can't stand the "giggling homicidal maniac" archetype either so maybe that's just me.
What are you seeing that I missed?

Part of it is the giggling homicidal maniac archetype is one that I enjoy but also because Tyrian had one of the best scenes in Volume 4 with Qrow. And there's also the 'why is he so devoted to Salem' question that hints at depth cause its not that he's afraid of her...he's afraid of her disappointment which is an interesting question. What did she do to deserve that devotion? Why is Tyrian so attached to her?

I'll admit that it's possible that the way Torchwick's role is performed could be coloring my perception on the the character more favorably. Maybe if RWBY were a comic or series of novels I'd agree with you, but as it's an animated video series, performance counts for a lot.

That's very true, performance does count for a lot, but part of that to me is...that role naturally requires a big, charismatic performance, right? Ever see Road to El Dorado? It was a movie literally designed around the idea of taking 'those two guys' from most adventure movies that every one loves (those two guys being the lovable comic relief guys full of sarcasm and a good time) and making them into the main character. A critique that was leveled at the movie was that by making those types of character the MAIN characters is that they had to have knocked-out-of-the-park performances, to be above and beyond other examples of that character archetype and it didn't quite succeed. I can't help but look at Roman like that. I think in comparison to the rest of the RWBY cast Roman's performance stands out but compared to other examples of his archetype, he's passable-to-good but not great.

I don't think I understand you here. The way I always understood Cinder's arc is that she craves power for power's sake, she meets Salem and decides that she wants to be like her because she's powerful. Then she suffers a humiliating defeat, seems to acknowledge that she has a lot to learn, then doesn't learn anything.

We don't really know why Cinder craves power aside from a general idea that she wants to be feared, we just don't know why. And I mean that the way Cinder reacted is entirely in keeping with her personality..she's a control freak. Look at the scene from the beginning of Volume 2 after Mercury and Emerald killed the bookstore owner. Sure there was a very small chance that it turned bad for them, but she was more upset that it didn't go down the way she wanted it to go down because she was in charge. Back with Salem, when she's clearly not in charge, its hard to tell if she acknowledges she has a lot to learn or if she's being forced to say that but what we do see is her questioning everyone of Salem's moves that she is privy to and not necessarily seeming to grasp why Salem operates the way she does. It just...doesn't compute that Salem doesn't use this overwhelming power attributed to her to accomplish her goals and doesn't let her beef with Ozpin interfere with things.

So then Cinder is given a mission but once she's given a route that she thinks is better, she deviates from the plan so badly that Watts washes his hands of the affair so he can't be blamed when it goes wrong. Cinder doesn't see it that way though. She DID bring down Beacon and was praised for it, so sure Ruby messed her up, but she still got the job done doing things her own way and can do it again..so long as she takes that pesky Ruby into account this time. Which...honestly she does. If it wasn't for Raven being the Spring Maiden and not Vernal, Cinder's plan would have worked again with almost no hitches and Cinder might get the respect she demands but is not being given.

What I mean is Salem viewed it as mentoring Cinder, but Cinder viewed it as therapy.

I sort of see the point of comparison here, in that both Salem and All for One are evil mentors to major antagonist. Though their methods aren't all that similar. All for One grooms Shigaraki for a particular role, gives him the means to fulfill that role and turns him loose. Also, what All for One requires of his protegé is pretty general-- be a bad guy, raise hell. Salem seems a lot more "hands on," and it seems like what she has in mind for Cinder is more specific-- open a gate, get a relic.

The mysterious point seems to be one where our tastes differ. I can appreciate it if I can believe that there's something to it, otherwise I... don't. If I had to craft any kind of speculation on what Salem's agenda is, I'd have to pretty much make up everything. I might feel differently if I could even make an educated guess as to what the relics do.[/QUOTE]

I think we've been given a hint of that already with the Great War, I have a feeling its going to be revealed that it was caused by someone (not necessarily Salem) tampering with the relic which brought about the idea that the best way for the world to run was to suppress creativity and expression so the Grimm don't have anything to attack.

In other words a Relic directly influences that attribute in humanity. You could use the creation relic to either bolster the creativity or remove it from a group of people or the destruction one to amp up their destructive impulses. That's my theory anyway.

[The Fury]

That's very true, performance does count for a lot, but part of that to me is...that role naturally requires a big, charismatic performance, right? Ever see Road to El Dorado? It was a movie literally designed around the idea of taking 'those two guys' from most adventure movies that every one loves (those two guys being the lovable comic relief guys full of sarcasm and a good time) and making them into the main character. A critique that was leveled at the movie was that by making those types of character the MAIN characters is that they had to have knocked-out-of-the-park performances, to be above and beyond other examples of that character archetype and it didn't quite succeed. I can't help but look at Roman like that. I think in comparison to the rest of the RWBY cast Roman's performance stands out but compared to other examples of his archetype, he's passable-to-good but not great.

No, I haven't seen that movie. Though I have seen The Pirates of the Caribbean sequels, and they suffered from the issue that I think you're describing. Or rather that's one of the issues those movies had, but that's a topic for a whole other thread.

I'm not seeing the connection though. Hammy, scenery-chewing villains are something of a storytelling staple in of themselves and that's what Roman was.

I think we've been given a hint of that already with the Great War, I have a feeling its going to be revealed that it was caused by someone (not necessarily Salem) tampering with the relic which brought about the idea that the best way for the world to run was to suppress creativity and expression so the Grimm don't have anything to attack.

In other words a Relic directly influences that attribute in humanity. You could use the creation relic to either bolster the creativity or remove it from a group of people or the destruction one to amp up their destructive impulses. That's my theory anyway.

That's one interpretation, but just about anything else seems just as likely to me. Maybe the Relic of Creation allows someone to conjure objects from nothing, maybe all the Relics do roughly the same thing. (Hey, there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference in what the Fall and Spring Maidens can do.) So far no fan interpretation of the Relics' powers has been so compelling as to make me think, "Oh yeah! That's got to be it!" and of course, there's not really anything definitive in canon either.

[Fyraltari]

Part of it is the giggling homicidal maniac archetype is one that I enjoy but also because Tyrian had one of the best scenes in Volume 4 with Qrow. And there's also the 'why is he so devoted to Salem' question that hints at depth cause its not that he's afraid of her...he's afraid of her disappointment which is an interesting question. What did she do to deserve that devotion? Why is Tyrian so attached to her?

Part of the problem I have with these characters is that there generally isn't an answer for these questions.

Why did they do that? Why didn't they do that? Why do they care about that?
Because they're mad.

Not only is that lazy writing but madness really doesn't work that way.


Maybe Tyrian is going to be different and there are actual reasons for his behaviour, but that would surprise me and they'd need to be pretty good ones to make me like the character.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Part of the problem I have with these characters is that their generally isn't an answer for these questions.

Why did they do that? Why didn't they do that? Why do they care about that?
Because they're mad.

Not only is that lazy writing but madness really doesn't work that way.


Maybe Tyrian is going to be different and there are actual reasons for his behaviour, but that would surprise me and they'd need to be pretty good ones to make me like the character.

Well...there was a fan theory back when he was first introduced that, mind I don't put a ton of stock in cause its very flimsy, Tyrian used to be a slave. Talked about how his natural sitting posture would only be comfortable for someone who grew up in a tight confined space like a cage and such.

Its also worth noting that I don't think he's truly mad, I think he's violent, unstable, and bloodthirsty but not crazy.

The thing is that...all of his actions make sense. They honestly do, he's strange about them and the fact he's so well spoken is a bit peculiar (and to me intriguing) but he doesn't just do things 'just cause'.

...Well...from what we've seen of him so far.

[Lethologica]

Well...there was a fan theory back when he was first introduced that, mind I don't put a ton of stock in cause its very flimsy, Tyrian used to be a slave. Talked about how his natural sitting posture would only be comfortable for someone who grew up in a tight confined space like a cage and such.

I hope someone introduced that fan to the Slav squat and Asian squat.

[LaZodiac]

I hope someone introduced that fan to the Slav squat and Asian squat.

Or L sitting in his chair all weird since it feels comfortable.

Like I'm sorry guys but Tyrion's not going to become a deep character. He's not.

[jindra34]

Or L sitting in his chair all weird since it feels comfortable.

Like I'm sorry guys but Tyrion's not going to become a deep character. He's not.

I'm going to be honest, I also expect to say a shallow Joker mokery. But hey there could be a dramatic turn and suddenly Rooster Teeth gets there act together and starts giving more than 3 characters character. Because most of the main four don't consistently get character, and its sad.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Or L sitting in his chair all weird since it feels comfortable.

Like I'm sorry guys but Tyrion's not going to become a deep character. He's not.

Lies!

...On both parts, why not? XD

I'm going to be honest, I also expect to say a shallow Joker mokery. But hey there could be a dramatic turn and suddenly Rooster Teeth gets there act together and starts giving more than 3 characters character. Because most of the main four don't consistently get character, and its sad.

That's just untrue.

[The Fury]

Or L sitting in his chair all weird since it feels comfortable.

Or maybe L was secretly a Faunus. A panda Faunus specifically. Yep.

[Ramza00]

I just realized while thinking about Cowboy Bebop that the RWBY people were trying to emulate Vicious with Adam Taurus.

1st) Vicious is an over-rated Bebop character. He works but he is also an empty character and add anything more to his story and he will fall apart like a house of cards.
2nd) Adam is no Vicious.
3rd) It shows that once again RWBY people are over their head when they tried to retell the story of Vicious in Vol 5 of RWBY. They do not realize there own limitations.