RWBY IX: Fractured Fairy Tales

[Lemmy]

Pissy that a creepy loser got fired form Funimation as well as Roosterteeth

It's almost as if ten years of this being an open secret finally catches up after awhile.

It's almost as if someone being treated as guilty WITHOUT A SINGLE EVIDENCE and then having his reputation and career smeared was something I disapprove of...

But, no no... Guilty until proven innocent, right? Accusations are proof! Because people on the internet never lie...

[Ramza00]

Pissy that a creepy loser got fired form Funimation as well as Roosterteeth

It's almost as if ten years of this being an open secret finally catches up after awhile.

I have the sudden urge to watch a Gene Wilder movie.

[Delicious Taffy]

It's almost as if someone being treated as guilty WITHOUT A SINGLE EVIDENCE and then having his reputation and career smeared was something I disapprove of...

But, no no... Guilty until proven innocent, right? Accusations are proof! Because people on the internet never lie...

You seem to have a very personal investment in Vic Mignogna being seen and treated as a squeaky-clean Good Boy. Unless you're a close personal friend or his PR manager, I'm not sure if that level of attachment is entirely healthy.

The fact of the matter is, there have been stories and rumors about this guy for like a decade and a half. At some point, people were gonna start asking why and giving him a wider berth, at least until the whole truth comes out. Instead of having the knee-jerk reaction of "People lie, leave this poor man alone, drop the subject forever!", it's better to just follow the discussion and see if anything conclusive comes of it.

There are way too many stories about him, going back way too far, for every single one of them to be completely fabricated. Even just one real case of Vic being too handsy is one too many, and it needs to be addressed, because when you plug your ears and close your eyes at these things, real problems get glossed over.

[Lemmy]

It's not Vic Mignona in particular. I've seen too many similar cases, some of them with people I know, not to be bothered by this.

Rumors are just that: Rumors. Even a thousand of them do not constitute evidence. The only thing I could find of Vic is maybe hugging people and possibly kissing them on the cheek... That could've made someone uncomfortable, but at worst that's Vic not picking up social clues. And he's been doing this for over a decade, so it's not like people didn't know he's a touchy-feely guy. Specially if they've seen him do it to tens of people in the line before.

Treating this as sexual assault is not only harmful to a seemingly innocent man, but disrespectful to victims of actual sexual assault.

Even if he were guilty of all accusations, he'd still deserve due process. Condemning someone "just in case" is an affront to "innocent until proven guilty", which is (or at least, should be) the basis of our justice system. 'll be the first to condemn Vic if there's proof or even strong evidence against him. But so far, despite this supposedly happening for years and the man being followed by cameras everywhere he goes, ZERO evidence turned up... And at least one of the photographs used as "evidence" literally had the girl in it come out and say that Vic absolutely had her consent to hug her, and that the photo was being used to smear him against her will.

I think it's far more likely that the outrage-addicted hate mob decided to gang up on a guy they don't like than him actually assaulting people... But unfortunately, this BS is now enough to get people fired... Which is deplorable and revolting, IMO. These people demand mob justice because they know they would have no ground to stand on in a court of law.

RT and Funimation are free to cave in to the internet hate mob, but I'm also free to not give them any money of they do. And as such, I choose to no longer support RWBY or anything RT-related anymore.

In any case, this is probably the last I'll speak of this subject around here. It's no longer RWBY-related... And it's clear that some people here are completely fine with this kind of thing happening... Hopefully no one ever accuses them of anything.

[Calemyr]

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

When rumor and supposition are all that's needed to destroy a life, there is no defense and there is no safety.

[Fyraltari]

When rumor and supposition are all that's needed to destroy a life, there is no defense and there is no safety.

Congratulations!


Use it well.

[Calemyr]

Congratulations!

Interesting. I'd always considered that honor to be tied to referencing and equating to Hitler, not his victims and the complacency they were met with. If the law is so broad, I suppose this award is well earned. It does lose some power in the expanded breadth, though.

My point is simply that standing by when others are being treated unjustly is not a virtue. This whole movement and sentiment used to be about claiming justice for victims that had no power or avenue for self-defense. Now it seems to be focused on destroying people whose beliefs don't match your own while granting them no avenue for self defense. That is a dangerous trend and can turn against anyone for any reason.

[Fyraltari]

Interesting. I'd always considered that honor to be tied to referencing and equating to Hitler, not his victims and the complacency they were met with. If the law is so broad, I suppose it's well earned. It does lose some power in the expanded breadth, though.

I mean if you compare someone who is being accused of something to victims of the Nazi party then you are comparing their accusers to the Nazi or the peole who stood by when the Nazi took over. I'd say that warrants a point.

[Calemyr]

I mean if you compare someone who is being accused of something to victims of the Nazi party then you are comparing their accusers to the Nazi or the peole who stood by when the Nazi took over. I'd say that warrants a point.

As I said, it may be well earned. I had no intention of equating the two, to be honest, much less pass judgment on those opposed to them, but rather repeat a warning that was as true then as it is now. If such qualifies, then fair enough. That weakens the power it holds even further, however, to the point I find little shame in it. A wise man said wise words and if, in repeating them when applicable, I commit an internet crime, it is a crime tantamount to jaywalking.

Still, it was against my better judgment to post as much as I have, quote included. My words mean little at the best of times, and less than nil when minds are set. And yet, to stay quiet would have been to ignore the very words that hung in my heart, for all the grief I suspected they would net me. My unrequested opinion is now shared, so I will withdraw to the peanut gallery.

[Ramza00]

Rumors are just that: Rumors. Even a thousand of them do not constitute evidence.

You do not know what investigations (if any) Rooster Teeth and Funamination did in deciding to retain or fire Vic. You do not know what happened behind the scenes.

----

But from a Ricardian perspective, Capitalism is also allow to hire Vic on a whim, and it also is allowed to fire Vic on a whim. If you do not allow both to happen there are possibilities of arbitrage and bad faith actors can abuse their power.

That is the nature of Job (yes I made a pun) ... And said, Broke I came into the Job Market, and broke shall I return thither: Capitalism gave, and Capitalism hath taken away; blessed be the name of Capitalism.

Even if he were guilty of all accusations, he'd still deserve due process. Condemning someone "just in case" is an affront to "innocent until proven guilty", which is (or at least, should be) the basis of our justice system.

But this is not the Justice System, this is the freedom to exchange for goods and services. This is the "free-market." We have a more rigorous standard for our judicial system for that is a government who can deny you of life, liberty, and property on an authority you are now allowed to contest and is immutable (unrecoverable) when it occurs. It is not about the value of life, liberty, and property that causes the higher due process, no it is the nature of the authority being one you are not allowed to contest that we have a higher standard going back to 1215 with John of England not having unlimited power with his Barons.

But this is the action of free people deciding they no longer want to have a business arrangement with Vic. Just like you have the freedom to decide no longer to buy Funanimation videos, or to subscribe to Rooster Teeth or Funanimation. You have this freedom. You are allowed to choose your own logic in how you use this freedom, but other people have the right to use other logic in how they interact with Vic, and they also have the right to mock your logic. And you have the right to challenge anything in life and say it is unfair.

Effectively what XKCD said here.

Spoiler: XKCD 1357

Show

Title text: I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.

In any case, this is probably the last I'll speak of this subject around here. It's no longer RWBY-related... And it's clear that some people here are completely fine with this kind of thing happening... Hopefully no one ever accuses them of anything.

You Promise?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Pissy that a creepy loser got fired form Funimation as well as Roosterteeth

It's almost as if ten years of this being an open secret finally catches up after awhile.

I was asking more so cause I just saw a post edit regarding the cancellation of services and what not that seemed like it came out of the blue. Figured I would inquire as to if there had been some big new development but doesn't seem to be the case.

In more RWBY related news, anyone watch reactions in these parts? I'm a person that enjoys Let's Watches and reactions with RWBY reactions usually being pretty entertaining, I bring this up cause I fell into watching a reaction series I've seen before and started wondering if perhaps people here knew a good reaction series.

[LaZodiac]

I was asking more so cause I just saw a post edit regarding the cancellation of services and what not that seemed like it came out of the blue. Figured I would inquire as to if there had been some big new development but doesn't seem to be the case.

In more RWBY related news, anyone watch reactions in these parts? I'm a person that enjoys Let's Watches and reactions with RWBY reactions usually being pretty entertaining, I bring this up cause I fell into watching a reaction series I've seen before and started wondering if perhaps people here knew a good reaction series.

We can discuss it in PMs if still curious.

Speaking of Let's Watches I suppose I should get back to RWBY. I've been away from it for...awhile, distracted by getting my novel ready and doing videos with my voice and work and watching Breaking Bad. But I should get back to it!

[Celestia]

I was asking more so cause I just saw a post edit regarding the cancellation of services and what not that seemed like it came out of the blue. Figured I would inquire as to if there had been some big new development but doesn't seem to be the case.

In more RWBY related news, anyone watch reactions in these parts? I'm a person that enjoys Let's Watches and reactions with RWBY reactions usually being pretty entertaining, I bring this up cause I fell into watching a reaction series I've seen before and started wondering if perhaps people here knew a good reaction series.

I'm subscribed to two reactors, both of whom do RWBY stuff: MurderofBirds and TheFlamingShark.

[Callos_DeTerran]

We can discuss it in PMs if still curious.

Speaking of Let's Watches I suppose I should get back to RWBY. I've been away from it for...awhile, distracted by getting my novel ready and doing videos with my voice and work and watching Breaking Bad. But I should get back to it!

Honestly, and I don't know if I can say its a negative, but Volume 6 ended a bit anti-climatically. Like, it was fun and I know you'll definitely enjoy part of it plus I really liked how the big emotional moment the final coflict centered on was well done, but it wasn't....important I guess?

The Volume was strong over all but it felt like it lacked a strong ending even if it was a satisfying one.

@Celestia: MurderofBirds I've listened to but...uh...his voice gets a bit too screech for me. I'll check out the FlamingShark though.

[Ramza00]

Honestly, and I don't know if I can say its a negative, but Volume 6 ended a bit anti-climatically. Like, it was fun and I know you'll definitely enjoy part of it plus I really liked how the big emotional moment the final coflict centered on was well done, but it wasn't....important I guess?

The Volume was strong over all but it felt like it lacked a strong ending even if it was a satisfying one.

@Celestia: MurderofBirds I've listened to but...uh...his voice gets a bit too screech for me. I'll check out the FlamingShark though.

I agree, if I were to do a comparison of another medium it would be A Feast for Qrows

So what happened.
1) Sidequest of getting from Mistral to Atlas with stops on the way with the train detour and Argus. If it was not do the Grimm in the 1st episode with the train they should have easily gotten to Argus by the end of episode 2 but instead the other half of the part (RWBY+Oscar+Qrow) do not reach it till episode 7 due to narrative / DM railroading
2) Backstory of Ozma and Salem provided by the relic.
3) Cinder and Neo team up, the rest of Salem's Faction and Team WTCH tell Salem that Ozpin is still alive in the form of Oscar.
4) Sidequest with the Argus faction of Atlas
5) Sidequest with dealing with the leftovers with Adam and the Blake, Yang personal narratives.

All these sidequests that barely move the narrative forward in a 4 hour period, over 13 episodes and 1 character short. If we were comparing this to a tv show that is 22 to 25 mins long we are talking only 10 to 11 episodes of content.

-----

Personally I love George RR Martin's book 4 A Feast for Crows, yet to me vol 6 of RWBY A Feast for Qrows was somehow less satisfying than vol 4 of RWBY at the end of it all.

Vol 4 of RWBY it too was a similar volume with some info dump, the plot barely moving forward, and a couple battles at the end of it all to wrap up some tension and make the audience feel like this is a good place to have a conclusion.

[Mechalich]

As RWBY has developed over time it's become more and more of a typical shounen-anime style show (yes the main characters are all girls, but the show hews pretty hard to shounen tropes and mostly ignores shoujo ones), and, in the time-honored tradition of shounen shows, it has chosen to gooooo sloooow. This is kind of annoying, but it's not exactly surprising. RWBY, along with Red vs. Blue, is the big Rooster Teeth meal ticket, so there's not really any incentive to hurry events towards the conclusion.

That said, this volume did at least manage to clear up the Adam subplot at last. They also cleared out a lot of backstory material, hopefully for the last time. Ruby also finally stepped up to the leadership role that she has been destined to hold while getting some explanation for her special powers at the same time. And while bringing Cinder back was annoying, teaming her up with Neo at least has the potential to condense that into one subplot. So stuff did happen, just not very fast.

[Reddish Mage]

I see the shounen style growing more pronounced. However, we're missing multi-episode battles, transforming villains, absurd power-scale creep (a feeling that would have been Monty's thing), extended mid-battle dialogues, flashbacks, and extended story arcs.

Instead, I see the lack of a "climax" as really just a complaint people have had unique to the show for the much of what happened. With the exception of Season 3, our heroes has not had to deal with Villains that WIN against them. We haven't seen a major wrench thrown into their plans.

We got a climax, and a big one at that. We had one in Season 4 too. Neither, however, came together with new plot revelations or big plot twists.

I'm not sure how much the villains really have to win, but the adversity factor right now seems a bit on the low side. I could be agonizing about how the team will get out of dealing with the Atlas military and get the next McGuffin from Ironwood, but I'm not feeling the tension, just a bit of confusion about what the team is going to encounter.

[Lord Raziere]

I see the shounen style growing more pronounced. However, we're missing multi-episode battles, transforming villains, absurd power-scale creep (a feeling that would have been Monty's thing), extended mid-battle dialogues, flashbacks, and extended story arcs.

Honestly speaking as a hardcore shonen style fan, I can do without the extended mid-battle dialogues and flashbacks thank you very much. less talking, more fighting, in general? more substance y'know. there are some things I love about the genre but if your going to talk, don't interrupt the fighting with it, at least not too often....

[DeadMech]

I was expecting Cinder to show up at some point what with the early establishment that she was on Ruby's heels. They mentioned a pretty specific amount of time between Cinder requesting the information on Ruby and actually receiving it so I figured that she would arrive to interfere. Or at least make a cameo at the end just a step behind.

[Delicious Taffy]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like everything from Season 4 onward could have been severely condensed and incorporated into a single, slightly longish season.

I mean, for the most part, nothing really happens in Season 5. Like, I remember them getting to the big empty school, something about Weiss fighting bees, some nonsense about bird magic that was apparently meant to be upsetting, Cinder got mad at some clouds in a bandit camp, and then everyone showed up to fight random people for about 20 seconds each, roll credits. Did they even show anything about Blake on Animal Island? I honestly can't remember if her scenes were all in Season 4 or not.

I haven't watched Season 6 yet, but based on the summaries here, I'm not missing much. What's going on with Ren and Nora, for starters?

[DeadMech]

I haven't watched Season 6 yet, but based on the summaries here, I'm not missing much. What's going on with Ren and Nora, for starters?

They got split from the party pretty early in so didn't have much focus. Jaune boosted Ren's semblance to hide the trainload of innocent passengers. So team JNPR went on to Argus alone and stranded without Team RWBY or the adults/Oscar. They crashed at Jaune's sister and her girlfriend's house. It's inferred they spent their time trying to arrange transport to Atlas at the military base but the blockade and the lack of Ozpin's authority resulted in them being stonewalled. Nora's personal skills probably made the situation worse in the long run.

Eventually when the two groups were reunited each had to be brought up to speed on what had happened during the separation. This temporarily devastated the team causing them all to split up and sulk awhile. Ren I think it's notable to mention seemed quite upset by the revelations about Ozpin and Salem. He's not the most expressive character so it stood out but it was Jaune who caused the next derailment in our heroes plans by taking his anger out on Oscar causing the kid to seemingly later run away while Ruby was busy having some time with Maria to discuss things. I believe it was Nora that came to get Ruby when Oscar's disappearance was noticed so the heroes again split the party. They search the town for awhile with Jaune's sister briefly before Ren and Nora suggest getting some drinks to warm up. Jaune feels too bad about causing this trouble so refuses to join them so the episode focuses on him. Turns out Pyrrha grew up in Argus and Jaune runs into a statue commemorating her in the middle of a park and there runs into a mysterious person who bears a heavy resemblance to Pyrrha including in voice actor and seems to have known her but she disappears abruptly after a conversation. Ren and Nora find Jaune and the statue and the trio has a discussion about their loss, how Jaune has handled it, reaffirm their bonds and conclude to carry on with their mission inspired by Pyrrha, believing she would want them to and would do so if present.

Turns out Oscar returned back to Jaune's sister's house so this resolved our heroes plot to steal an aircraft. Nora supports the plan but Ruby ultimately decides to go through with it despite Qrow's objections. Nora and Ren play a smaller role in the overall plan. Neither of them presumably can fly an aircraft. The Radar sabotage mission required stealth and not from Grimm so Blake went and Yang took her part way with her Bike presumably as a getaway driver in case things went poorly. As well The Adam confrontation occurred which Ren and Nora have less personal grudge. So they stayed with the rest waiting for pickup until the mech fight which they participated in but mostly in a distraction and support role since it took Jaune's planning and Ruby's recklessness to disable. I don't think they played any significant role in the defense of Argus against the Kaiju. In the aftermath they along with the rest of the heroes flew off Atlas bound.

Overall Ren and Nora had minor supporting roles in the season, absent for significant plot important events. The blue naked genie plot dump, the apathy horror episode, the villain cutaways, Maria's flashback silver eyes revelation, Ruby's discussion of the silver eyes, Pyrrha's sister?ghost?cousin?, The plane hijacking, the Adam fight. And their particular talents weren't particularly applicable to most situations that arose around them. They didn't gain or reveal any new abilities or spend any time on screen training. I don't think we learned much about them this season either. As for the shipping front, the most important front... I don't know. They seemed to be particularly comfortable around each other this season. I don't remember much awkwardness or teasing or tension.

[Ramza00]

Did they even show anything about Blake on Animal Island? I honestly can't remember if her scenes were all in Season 4 or not.

I haven't watched Season 6 yet, but based on the summaries here, I'm not missing much. What's going on with Ren and Nora, for starters?

Vol 4 is Blake discovering their is a conspiracy on animal island. At the end of Vol 4 Sun is poisoned by Chameleon girl but he gets better.
Vol 5 is Blake defeating the conspiracy on animal island and creating a new animal island militia to save Mystral, Blake shows up in Mystral with a minor army and defeats Adam.

[Reddish Mage]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like everything from Season 4 onward could have been severely condensed and incorporated into a single, slightly longish season.

I mean, for the most part, nothing really happens in Season 5. Like, I remember them getting to the big empty school, something about Weiss fighting bees, some nonsense about bird magic that was apparently meant to be upsetting, Cinder got mad at some clouds in a bandit camp, and then everyone showed up to fight random people for about 20 seconds each, roll credits. Did they even show anything about Blake on Animal Island? I honestly can't remember if her scenes were all in Season 4 or not.

I dealt with this. Aside from all the lifting season 4 did that needs to be there (Blake’s points are central, Yang and Weiss’s stories both have seeds for future plot points). Season 5 is Raven’s story (which you can’t cut without cutting Raven), big stuff on Salem’s team side, Oscarpin’s big reveal, and as far as Blake...clearly you are just trolling...

[Delicious Taffy]

and as far as Blake...clearly you are just trolling...

Or maybe her story left so little of an impression on me that I forgot if she was even in Season 5. That's another possibility, and it doesn't even require pointless malice on my part. Let's not get ridiculous, here.

[Lethologica]

As far as longish single seasons go, I think v4-5 is doable in under 20 episodes, even without negotiating which story elements are essential or compromising on coherent pacing. Cutting empty space, layering relevant story elements in parallel instead of dragging them out in series, and restructuring the timeline can clear out about 25% of the runtime. But that does involve up to 20 episodes' worth of relevant stuff happening for some definition of relevance - 'is it worth having in the show' being a much broader criterion than 'what would a disaffected erstwhile viewer consider relevant plot development,' since that previous conversation is being referenced now.

I do share bafflement over DT's minimization of all story elements in v4-6. Especially since he hasn't even watched 6.

[Calemyr]

I do share bafflement over DT's minimization of all story elements in v4-6. Especially since he hasn't even watched 6.

It makes sense to me. Part of the reason volume 6 was so good was because it followed 4 and 5, which were rather lackluster at best. 4 tried to spread too little content over too many plot threads, resulting in something that honestly made RWBY Chibi feel more coherent. 5, on the other hand, followed such a painfully obvious (and short) arc that the audience got the opportunity to be bored. A lot. There were a few worthy twists and surprises, yes, but the vast majority of it was so telegraphed it was mostly just an effort to endure the wait for the inevitable. Had they not revealed that Leo was a traitor at the end of 4, it could have been tense, but that stinger let the air out of much of the volume's tires.

This is made much worse because of Volume 3 which, besides a number of shocking twists and emotional gut punches, filled out a lot of the gaps in Cinder's role up to that point. It wasn't perfect, but it turned her from a preening narcissist prone to basking in the villainous afterglow of flipping on a lightswitch into a frighteningly effective mastermind that brought down one of the most powerful cities in the world, stole a power that was regarded as a fairy tale by the populace, directly killed two of (seemingly) the most powerful characters in the setting in single combat and orchestrated the death of a third, and effectively shattered the global community in the process, all with a computer virus, a few lieutenants, and a small army of disposable mooks. Following that, 4 & 5 were not just less than memorable, they were utter letdowns.

Volume 6 does a job much like 3 did. It was, again, not perfect, but it focused the perspective on RWBY rather than dividing it further than the narrative could endure, and showed us a lot of big stuff on a lot of levels, both personal and big picture. It ended on a pretty weak note, I'll admit, but even that was better than 4 & 5... Until volume 6, it really did feel like it was running out of steam and just taking a long time to die.

[Reddish Mage]

As far as longish single seasons go, I think v4-5 is doable in under 20 episodes, even without negotiating which story elements are essential or compromising on coherent pacing. Cutting empty space, layering relevant story elements in parallel instead of dragging them out in series, and restructuring the timeline can clear out about 25% of the runtime. But that does involve up to 20 episodes' worth of relevant stuff happening for some definition of relevance

So your saying essentially cut 4-5 down to a little more than one season. How would you do that. What do you drop?

I note you are describing keeping the various personal arcs in place as well as each element of the main plot. That’s different from most of this criticism which comes down to cutting out the heart of each season’s plotline as so much dead weight.

[Lethologica]

So your saying essentially cut 4-5 down to a little more than one season. How would you do that. What do you drop?

I note you are describing keeping the various personal arcs in place as well as each element of the main plot. That’s different from most of this criticism which comes down to cutting out the heart of each season’s plotline as so much dead weight.

Well, once the completely dead stuff is cut, there will be more room to evaluate how much of what's left is worthwhile. But right now we're not even at that point, because the relevant stuff is spread so thin that each moment of screentime feels like a waste even if some relevant things happened over the course of the volume.

So what's some low-hanging fruit in this regard?

Cut out about 90% of Blake's volume 4 storyline where nothing happens. Layer her personal conflict over the WF conflict instead of splitting up the two into separate volumes. Easily doable given how much empty space there was in the Menagerie arc.

Cut out most of RNJR puttering around Haven. There are a few possible timelines here, I'll give one. Shift RNJR's arrival at Haven to much earlier in the story, after maybe one episode of refugee and transportation shenanigans. Have (most of) the v4 content be a consequence of Leo sending RNJR looking for information on the Spring Maiden. We can still take our time with Ren/Nora's backstory and setting up the Nuckelavee fight (and for the love of Lightbro, have Ruby reflect on her silver eyes in some way before v6 instead of learning Headbutt). Instead of Qrow just happening to know that Raven has the Spring Maiden, let that information be connected to the Nuckelavee fight in some way.

The gang books it back to Haven, where they meet Oscar and Qrow recuperates. Insert any additional necessary exposition in here, but vet with extreme prejudice. Leo invites the kids to the v5 finale, and Qrow/Oscar follow after putting two and two together with regard to Leo sending Huntsmen to their deaths (including RNJR).

The first third of Yang's v4 arc is basically fine. Give trauma room to breathe. The rest is...not pointless, there needs to be something there, but what's shown is pretty thin. Have Yang overhear that the WF are mobilizing in Mistral, leading her eventually to the conclusion that she needs to be there for Ruby. (This part could use tuning.) Weiss was taken away, Blake ran away, but Yang let Ruby go, and that's something she can change, someone she can grab onto. She goes and finds Raven, and their talk is intercut with the Qrow-RNJR talk, because how could you not do that given the opportunity? So Yang joins up with the group just after Qrow finishes his talk, which could be on the road, or could be while Qrow is recuperating at Haven.

Compress Cinder's v4 arc by half, at least. Send her and Watts out to meet Tyrian, and they find him with his tail cut off babbling about where the Spring Maiden is and how he's gonna kill Ruby. So Cinder meets with Raven right after Yang does, as in the show proper.

I haven't worked out if there's enough time to have Weiss' arc basically unaltered and still have her meet up with Yang at the bandit camp. If not, it's easier to have Weiss find her own way to Haven than to compress the Atlas arc, at least for now. Maybe once the show has done Atlas we can look back at this and see things to trim.

The v5 finale has plenty of important stuff but it also just drags on and on and on. I bet we could cut up to an episode out of that.

I'm pretty sure this puts us under 20 episodes without breaking a sweat.

[Reddish Mage]

So Leth basically says:

Cut 90% Blake, One Episode to the Journey to Haven, Keep a good 1/3 of Yang’s stuff, Weiss can be uncut if room allows, Cinder isn’t important....

So basically this is a longer version of DT’s vaguely stated ideas, including saying that Blake’s story isn’t important...

But even leaving aside the centrality of Blake’s story over two seasons to the story of the Faunus, White Fang and basically one of the biggest outstanding stories about what is going on with the world of Remnant... What’s even more central is the main story work done during RNJR’s journey: After fighting some Grimm, They meet Qrow, get the story of the two brothers and fill in what they are really fighting over, fight Tyrian, and then they decide to develop Renora and show how Juane handle’s Pyrrha’s death.

Which of the above are you cutting out? Because that’s about half of season’s four content above.

Meanwhile you decide Yang’s story’s important, so is Weiss’ but Cinder’s stuff isn’t. This is clearly just cherry picking your favorites. Especially, now we see Yang’s stuff gets resolved in season 6 (unless they plan to continue to have her deal with the PTSD - which may be preferable if they have an intelligent way to handle it), while Cinder is shaping up to be a faction of her own.

Not only is Cinder’s arc (which is fairly short) extremely important to establishing her character and show motivation for why she’s after Ruby. It may prove to be vital to what plays out in further volumes.

[Lethologica]

So Leth basically says:

Cut 90% Blake, One Episode to the Journey to Haven, Keep a good 1/3 of Yang’s stuff, Weiss can be uncut if room allows, Cinder isn’t important....

So basically this is a longer version of DT’s vaguely stated ideas, including saying that Blake’s story isn’t important...

But even leaving aside the centrality of Blake’s story over two seasons to the story of the Faunus, White Fang and basically one of the biggest outstanding stories about what is going on with the world of Remnant... What’s even more central is the main story work done during RNJR’s journey: After fighting some Grimm, They meet Qrow, get the story of the two brothers and fill in what they are really fighting over, fight Tyrian, and then they decide to develop Renora and show how Juane handle’s Pyrrha’s death.

Which of the above are you cutting out? Because that’s about half of season’s four content above.

Meanwhile you decide Yang’s story’s important, so is Weiss’ but Cinder’s stuff isn’t. This is clearly just cherry picking your favorites. Especially, now we see Yang’s stuff gets resolved in season 6 (unless they plan to continue to have her deal with the PTSD - which may be preferable if they have an intelligent way to handle it), while Cinder is shaping up to be a faction of her own.

Not only is Cinder’s arc (which is fairly short) extremely important to establishing her character and show motivation for why she’s after Ruby. It may prove to be vital to what plays out in further volumes.

We can't have this conversation properly until you:

(a) Commit to regarding my changes as good-faith attempts to improve the story instead of making silly accusations about my motives.

(b) Pay attention to the changes so you notice things like what actually happened to the Journey to Haven content, what I actually want to do with Blake's story, etc.

I'm not interested in defending myself or merely reading my changes to you. I can do better than that. You can do better than that.