Okay, let me pitch Dominions 5 to you

[Olinser]

OK so Khaine would be in for a 2v2v2v..... game and a couple others that are in the current game, anybody else?

[lord_khaine]

Divine War! Divine War! come get it while its luvely fresh and burning!

[The Hellbug]

I'm in for the pairs idea. Do we have an age thought out? I think I'd pick EA.

[Olinser]

I'm in for the pairs idea. Do we have an age thought out? I think I'd pick EA.

EA is fine with me but I don't really have strong feelings.

And then the big question is whether anybody has strong feelings for being on a team with somebody else, or should I just RNG it up?

[deuterio12]

Better late than never.

Also damn, I knew ghoul guardians weren't that hot but to kill only 4 flagellants, that's really a poor show for a supposed anti-sacred unit.

[Aeson]

Also damn, I knew ghoul guardians weren't that hot but to kill only 4 flagellants, that's really a poor show for a supposed anti-sacred unit.

Four Flagellants? What were they blessed with, how many Ghoul Guardians and Flagellants were involved, and what was each side supported by? Because while I could maybe see it happening with a fairly defensive heavy bless on the flagellants or maybe with enough magic support even unblessed, it just doesn't seem likely unless the battle was small enough for the game to get pretty swingy.

I will say, however, that Ghoul Guardians are generally better against ~small numbers of elite, expensive sacreds than against hordes of cheap sacreds even before you get to the point of completely swamping cap-only anything with recruit-anywhere sacreds. Bane of Heresy works much, much better when you have multiple Ghoul Guardians per sacred target than when you have multiple sacred targets per Ghoul Guardian, and Ghoul Guardians' raw statline suggests giant-slaying or blocking more than horde-shredding anyways.

[deuterio12]

Awe+Luck bless, althought the Awe should be a not-factor since ghoul guardians had pretty good morale(strong base+their dominion+ghoul commander), which combined with their crappy defense should mean that Luck's the only thing protecting the flagelants since the guardians have 12 attack against their 9 defense (and a whooping 28 damage against zero protection and 9 HP).

Relatively big battle, roughly 200ish dudes in each army with plenty of crossbows on both sides but basically no buffs besides the bless.

The ghoul guardians were 27 and charged straight at a slightly bigger blob of flagellants, but not big enough to get a proper surround.

Still they were 27 ghoul guardians, I would've expected each to kill about one flaggelant before going down, not to kill less than 1/6 their own numbers. Heck, the flagellants themselves got 6 kills, although some of those may've been some retreating troops.

[Aeson]

Sounds to me like maybe the ghouls just got unlucky against Awe or in their attack/damage rolls and then routed before the RNG swung back in their favor.

[Knaight]

Sounds to me like maybe the ghouls just got unlucky against Awe or in their attack/damage rolls and then routed before the RNG swung back in their favor.

Exceptionally unlucky, given that flagellants are garbage, and have been garbage pretty much since the beginning (other than rare edge cases, like happening to get to receive a Mictlan triple bless in Dom 3, though that says less about flagellants and more about that triple bless being terrifying on a per unit basis, and still respectable even once you account for the hilariously bad scales).

[Aeson]

There's a ~3% chance that Awe works against ~20 morale Ghoul Guardians, ~11% chance that 12-Attack Ghoul Guardians fail to hit 6-Defense Flagellants, and something a bit over an 85% chance* that 9 HP/0-prot Flagellants don't die to the first hit they take from a Ghoul Guardian means that only about 13% the first round of attacks by Ghoul Guardians against Awe/Luck-blessed Flagellants should be fatal, so four dead Flagellants would be about right for 27 Ghoul Guardians against a similar number of Flagellants over a round of combat, if all the Ghoul Guardians got off an attack. It would not take that much bad luck for 27 Ghoul Guardians to not kill more than a handful of Awe/Luck Flagellants over several rounds of combat, especially if, as can happen, the Ghoul Guardians are not all engaged.

* 20% chance to hit an arm and 20% chance to hit a leg, and in either case damage gets capped to half max HP and the Flagellant picks up an affliction instead of dying outright, plus a 75% chance to ignore lethal damage due to being Lucky, plus the unlikely-but-vaguely-possible incredibly-good protection roll that allows a 9HP/0-prot unit to survive a 25 damage hit. Later attacks have slightly-better odds of being fatal because earlier attacks may have already taken half of the Flagellant's HP so even the capped-damage limb hits would be fatal, but because of the Luck bless the Flagellants will always have at least a 75% chance to survive an otherwise-lethal hit no matter how many hits they'd taken prior to it.

[deuterio12]

Exceptionally unlucky, given that flagellants are garbage, and have been garbage pretty much since the beginning (other than rare edge cases, like happening to get to receive a Mictlan triple bless in Dom 3, though that says less about flagellants and more about that triple bless being terrifying on a per unit basis, and still respectable even once you account for the hilariously bad scales).

Seems like finally they finally have non-garbage build thanks to the new bless system and Marignon getting extra bless points. Lucky Awesome flagellants can be surprisingly tanky.

[houlio]

Better late than never.

Also damn, I knew ghoul guardians weren't that hot but to kill only 4 flagellants, that's really a poor show for a supposed anti-sacred unit.

Not pictured: glorious cave knights (one of four units available to LA Agartha with decent damage) fighting for the one true snake.

[deuterio12]

Those horse archers may've been the most badass mercenaries I've ever seen, Xibalba's national troops were routing, Agartha's solid snake still standing along a good chunk of their troops, and the mercenaries just go "Don't worry guys we've got this, CCHHHAAARGGGEE!!" and procceed to send solid snake running along Agartha's army!

They deserve their retirement.

[deuterio12]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD(and astral/fire) GOD!

FORTS FOR THE FORT THRONES!

LET ULM BECOME MILDLY WARM!

Also lord_khaine has their PM box full.

[lord_khaine]

Sweat Ulm! Sweat in the unpleasantly lukewarm weather of Jeanne! :P

Also curses, that thing fills up swiftly..

[houlio]

So, our long-running FFA game was recently wrapped up, and I'm personally in the market for another game. Setting up another pairs game was mentioned, although I'd enjoy seeing at least 4 teams for that (so 8 players). Who is up for another game?

[lord_khaine]

Well i am of course in for a new round.
Since i at the moment only got 1 other game running.

[Olinser]

Yeah I wish I could but unfortunately I don't have a lot of time for gaming for a couple months. Maybe if it takes a while to get going I may be able to jump in :(

[deuterio12]

Not taking more than 1 game at a time now.

Sooo, who won that other game and any highlights?

[lord_khaine]

Well.. technically i won it, since everyone else gave up :P

Marignon had to withdraw because of work. And for some weird reason he could not just go AI.
As for highlights, well i think the biggest one were how we more or less had ended in a 5 side deadlock.
Though another personal one were flying the King of Banefires in to kill about 5k worth of gold in Sacred knighs.

Dairy of the One Above you, God of Nazca

Spoiler: Turn 1-20

Show

Turn 0-1
Oh gods, what is this starting army? How am i expected to counquer the world with a group of undiciplined wingless, as well as a bare handful of arches armed only with shortbows? Where are the heroes? Where are the mages?
Well, nothing to do about it. To the south there is a cave inhabitet by likely the only thing such a puny army an conquer. Zotz. Praise myself for such a stroke of luck.
All the same.. better recruit a few Condor Warriors and some spearmen to aid the wingless in taking the cave. As well as pull some random guy aside and make him prophet. I need someone competent (meaning able to fly) to lead my first army asap.

Turn 2-3
Praise myself!
The flying chaff actually managed to beat 20 unarmed Zotz. It was harder than expected though. Mainly due to their shamans summoning the living dead. Got a cave full of minerals though. And a slightly more competent leader to aid in the pincer attack on the nearby plains

Turns 4-6
Praise myself further!
The following pincher attack were a success as well. It seems that when some 40+ pieces of flying chaff attack the backline, then there is a decent chance for the enemy commander to get impaled on a lance. Unfortunately though, the prophet got lost on the way home.
After fighting lone man against a province full of heavy cavalery he died like a martyr, and his bones are now venerated like the holy relics they are. Sacret ghost warriors are gathering around them even as I dictate this. Pointing and laughing at St Raptor the lost.

Also began diplomatic talks with a white monkey. He seemed like a decent chap. Despite all the fur. We agreed to a peaceful division of the world, since I suspect we both just want to research in peace.

Turn 7-9
Thank myself!
Something resembling competence in weak light has been found, as general Seagul has taken over leading the troops. Aided by the resources from the zoot cavern, it has been possible to agument his troops with small groups of heavily (hah!) armed sunguards, and a few spectral warriors called in by a pair of mummies. It has allowed him to subdue the surounding land with startling effectivity.
Here at this point 7 provinces now lie under my domain.
Though curses, Ulm has also been spotted to the west by a lone scout.
For the moment there are other plans though. General Seagul, and newly recruited general Flamingo will converge upon the throne to the north.

Turn 10-12
Progress! And a step backward.
I encountered some more wingless to the southwest. Their negotiator were rather sharp, and I had to give off the land my favorite beach house lay on to get peace for the moment. We are at war though! They just wont know yet..
And very fitting, because one of my generals had just claimed the throne of war in my name. Its power are already argumenting the fighting skills of my sacret champions as they make a line for the next throne.

Things are going a little troublesome though. With Ulm to the west, and giant monsters to the east expansion has been hindered. Thankfully both are open to diplomacym appently there are bigger concerns for them. Meanwhile General Seagul wil take his men across the river, and try to claim the island to the north before anyone else gets a foothold there.






Turn 13-15

Blasted! It turns out the northen island is all full of Hebrev cannibal giants. Thankfully it seems they got their hands full with the people living to the south, so a peace treaty of a year were signed with them, giving both of us a chance to fortify our borders.

Else, status for the start of the year. Alteration level 2 has finally been researched, allowing my generals to buff themselves up a little better. Next goal is now construction 2, for Dwarfen hammers, Owl Quills and Fancy hats.

Construction is ongoing for the first castle, on the throne that General Seagull claimed. The reason for why there are not more being made, is that a majority of the nations funds have been used on pulling mummy couples out of their retirement home. A pair of them are now searching for magic sites, while the last 2 is busy conjuring ghosts.

And the site team ended things on a great note, finding 5 different sites, mainly earth and death.

Turn 16-18

Things are progressing nicely. With my limited stock of water gems a ring of water breathing has been forget. Allowing me to send the newly hired General Penguin down under sea with a small task force of ghosts. His Mission? To conquer the rest of the ocean before the blasted Ashdod manages to do so.

Also, it means Phaecia has managed to gather a lot of negative attention by growing to fast. And a coalition has now been formed against him. Im 100% alright with it, as it draws attention away from the army of ghost-calling mummies in my capital. Meanwhile im going to go along and help by them grapping a few provinces closest to my own border.

Turn 19

A glories turning point! Praise me!
The code of construction has finally been cracked. Mostly by me. Even as I write this every ghost summoning Mummy bundle is taking a break to forge a Huece mask. That will double the amount of ghosts they can call. And I guess also make a few skull mentors from the spare parts at the mummification table.

It comes at a good time.. because the war against Phaecia is taking a step backward. His army seems to outnumber mine 3 to 1, so the siege of his castle is briefly abbandoned, in favor of teaming up with the rest of my armies.

Turn 20

Not much is taking place here. My forces are consolidating while the next target is being decided.
At this time I got 2 additional forts running, and they are working on recruiting members for the Hurin Priesthood while i research enchantment magic.

My blessed troops have a critical weakness to fire that has thankfully so far remained undetected by most. Flame ward will cover that nicely.

Spoiler: Turn 21 - 30

Show

Turn 21-22

Another period of slowness. The war against Phaecia is moving at a crawl. And might not be worth pursuing further. At least taking more land would prove difficult to defend in a later phase. Research is moving on steadily without me now though, and I can forge a few items to aid the nation.

In particularly another ring of water breathing. A throne of great power has been spotted across the waves. And a team of Inca’s and ghost are being formed to try and claim it for my glory.



Turn 23.
Scout reports are in. The war against Phaecia must take a backseat, for it seems Pangea is massing troops near the throne by the sea. Caution must be thrown aside for this, and two of my best leaders, Horus the Hero and General Penguin, are equipped with water breathing rings, and preparing a force of sacred ghost warriors to try and see if they can claim the throne in time.

Besides that, RNGesus is mocking me. Though I sorely need one I have not yet been able to train a Hurin Priest skilled in the art of earth magic.

Turn 24.
Treason! Though skilled manipulation Phaecia managed to lure my monkey neighboor to attack my liberation force of sacred ghosts and condor warriors. It resulted in a brutal massacre that did not really any any winner, despite me ending with control of the fort. And even as I dictate this the remnants of General Seaguls forces are gathering to take it. Here wings once more proves immensely useful.

Turn 25.
Victory! The fort has been claimed in my name. And while the war against Phaecia is once more being pursued by a few unit of living troops, then the undersea force has also meanwhile been launched. 80 Ghost warriors lead by two Inca’s should be able to claim it.

Turn 26-27
A sudden betrayl strikes as Ulm launches a surprise assult on one of my nearby forts. Thankfully he made the mistake of sending in a early force of knighs to siege the castle, giving me enough early warning to bring my own armies into position.

Turn 28-29
In a staggering display of arrogance the Ulmish commander split up his forces after having cracked the walls of my western castle. A crack force of 30 black knights and 60 pikemen were left to take the almost undefended castle, while around 60 pikemen, and a large group of priests, went towards Nazca castle. Of course, at the same time the relief force of around 120 Ghost warriors, and assorted sacred warriors decended to kill every single invader.

Spoiler: Turn 30 - 55

Show

Turn 30-31
It was decided then, that the insults from Ulm had been tolerated long enough. The force of Pikemen headed for Nazca castle seemed to have gotten lost. But it was deemed a minor nuiseance. The main threat were the castles of Ulm where their insane knights were being trained. So a counter-invasion force were formed out of more than 100 sacred Nazcan warriors, and launched into the forests of Ulm.

There they spotted the source of the insanity. A big the size of an elephant had taken control over the nation!
No wonder the Ulmian people were rambling Madmen. Something had to be done to liberate them. And so the greatest mage-smith of the Nazcan people, their god, began forging a weapon fit for a hero, to begin the great hunt for OINK.

Turn 32-34
Praise me! The initial steps of the liberation campaign has gone well. A forth south of Ulm itself has been taken, and are prepared as staging point for the remaining campaign. The armies of Ulm itself seems to have been mustering as well, numbering around 400 if scout reports are to be believed. But instead of fighting they seems to be turtling up in Ulm itself. That’s great, because more than Ulm’s capital I want the magnicient throne located south of my new fort.
The armies of Ulm im not worried about. They might barely outnumber my flying chaff of lances. But they lack the support of a dedicated mage corps like the Nazcan airforce.

Arrg! Curses! Featherrot! I overestimated the magnitude of the throne. Its just a rather regular one. The throne of air. And while it provide a decent boon, then its not nearly worth the cost in sacred ghosts. Not when im busy “liberating” the poor people of Ulm.
Well.. to late to cry about that. My 3 main armies are now getting into position around Ulm itself. Its lack of trained war mages will be the downfall of the nation.
Turn 35-36
A last ditch attempt from Ulm to go out in a blaze of glory? Or no its not their entire army, just a significant part of their knights, followed by a massive group of pikemen and some of their smiths. Perhaps a a test to see if my armies are diverted elsewhere. Well, unfortunately for them they ran head first into reinforcements from the capital.

Turn 37-40
Embarresingly caught with the divine pants down. Ulm moved to break the siege right as the army were preparing for the arrival of a royal mummy pair. And the ensuring battle placed a hard strain upon the sacred Nazcan warriors. Though the strategy of sending off a Hero with a greatsword to chase down the giant boar paid off. OINK only managed to trample 4 units before dying.

So at this state its all over except for the crying. Now my generals and mages just wait for fresh troops to crack the walls, before going in and taking over.

And its at this stage its time to lean back and prepare a new long term strategy, while tending the Royal Nazcan Oak. With hints from a fallen Lord of the Wild, then it should win first place this time. Perhaps this will Anger the Goddes of Man. Perhaps not. Because out of people I would prefer to fight.

Man ranks the highest. Their main power seems to lie in their wind mages, and their arches.
But my sacred ghosts negate both of those. Being able to fly though a storm leaves them able to murder both archers and mages with ease. While being thunder resistant negates one of Man’s main attacks.

Ashdod is a little more scary, their sacred giants are likely the scariest things walking around, when heavily blessed. But these giants have a weaker bless. And their secret weapon, their sacred ghost giants, are countered by the massive amount of death mages I posses. I believe any fight against Ashdod can be won by chugging skeletons and meteors at them.

Marignon is a little more worrying. They have a strong bless, and my own sacred troops are weak against their fire shield. But my Inca’s can ward their men against fire now. And their magic diversity is low. Also like before its always possible to fall back on the fool proof combination of skeletons and meteors.

Bandar Log, is the nation I fear the most. Their sacred tiger riders have the perfect counter to my ghosts.. magic weapons.. and their superior astral mages makes it hard to bring my own to the battle against them.
Here I would need to dig deeply into the bag of dirty tricks.

Turn 41 - 43
At last! The nut that is Ulm has cracked. My forces are now ready to storm the castle.
And by forces I mean reanimated bodies of slain Ulmians. Im not going to send any more expensive troops into that grinder..
It is now soon time to set my eyes on a new target. But I don’t think it wil be one of my rival nations.
My research is going strong, I have recently learned how to forge some really powerful magical artifact. And in a few turns I can start summoning troll kings to wield them.

Turn 44 – 46
Succes! I have managed to claim the throne of creation, aposis is almost within reach.
Now careful plans are being made. My scouts have identified each of the remaining sites I need. And my plan is quite clear. A strike force of Inca’s and simular heroes is being trained to hit vulnerable locations at or by each site. Then, preparing a ritual site there will allow Mummi bundles to step though with the hordes of infantry needed to take those sites. As well as claim them.

I have the magic needet for this. I have most of the armies. And soon, soon I will have trained and geared enough heroes. I gave the rest of the world a year of peace (10 months) a few months ago. When that is over, in around 6 months, then I will strike simultaneously at every single throne.


Turn 47
Treason! Seems the world wont give me a bit of peace. Both Man and Marignon have struck now, though so far nothing major is lost. Even if I am under siege now at several places. Some of those will need to be abbandoned.
And a raiding force prepared.

Turn 48
Horrible setback. Depressed. Lost 2 major engagements to a combination of hubris and back luck.
Got forced back from the Throne of creation by a sudden barrage of flaming bolts. Without me the rest of the army died.
And underestimated the magical might of Man. The souther force, as well as my black choir, has mostly been lost as well. Need to consolidate my forces now.

Dam I hate diplomacy. Have been into extremely extensive negotiations with just about everyone now, hoping to divert attention away from me, or towards either Man or Marignon.

Turn 49
The scavenger joins in at last. The cannibal giants of Ashdod has launched a surprise attack by their ghost heroes, striking 4 locations simultaneously. Though I suspect it will be a gross miscalculation on his part. I am prepared for this treachery. I bought an expensive peace for Marignon, and are about to deply my own shock weapon against The sieging armies of man. In the West, my 3 heroes of Earth, Darkness and Nature should hopefully be able to dislodge his army. While south My grand General Heron will strike with an army of ghosts, as well as a hired mage skilled in the art of water and poison. This might free my full attention to deal with Ashdod.

Turn 52
Arg! War is hell! And stress! In a little bitter pill that’s hard to swallow. Especially when being in war on 3 different fronts. At the west things initially went as planned. The 3 heroes managed to kick off the sieging army. But in a horrible case of hubris were then send off to counter raid the survivors, and that allowed a elite team of Mans mages to drop down from the sky and seduce my hero of darkness away with their unnatural charm.

Down south it meanwhile went horrible wrong. The initial battleplan went perfectly fine, and would have crushed the forces of Man except for a tiny details. The Mage blotting out the sun had been instructed to escape after casting that vital spell, and that caused it to fail. Suddenly General Heron’s ghosts were not fighting in darkness, and they broke on the ranks of Man’s knights. The one spark of light here is that General Heron came back more powerful than before, fusing with his bride to create a mage skilled in both astral and fire.

North meanwhile, things went according to plan. A scout bravely spend his life baiting out the battleplan of the Ashdod deathball, and its shockingly high number of battle mages.
Aided by a horde of skeletons they broke though the walls in a single month. But that laid the fundation for an extremely complex battleplan. Sending a relief force of undeads to hit the sieging force as they stormed the castle meant it was possible to slam them all with a nasty combination of foul vapors and raining stones while forcing them to fight though hordes of disposeable chaff. Here special credit should be given to Sir Newton the Hurin priest, who scored 274 kills in that battle.

Along with that diplomatic gains have been made. Bandar Log has agreed to aid by taking a few stabs at Ashdod, meaning that for the first time in almost a year, then there is only a single opponent to focus on. Man.

Turn 55
The front has been rather quiet for a while. Mostly small skirmishes with Ashdod as we now fight for ownership of the oceans. That he has called up the well of misery will certainly aid in the effort of convincing everyone else he is a treat. And lets then keep quiet about it being done a few months before I would have done the same.
All the same, Man has at long last grown weary of the constant fighting, and sued for peace after an unlucky combat.
That means all attention can be turned towards Ashdod.

Whats missing is then the last 4 or so turns where Marignon tried their bid for world domination by preparing to rush everyone else.

[houlio]

Yeah I wish I could but unfortunately I don't have a lot of time for gaming for a couple months. Maybe if it takes a while to get going I may be able to jump in :(

I imagine we won’t get anything started until the new year if not longer at least. Sorry to hear that work has been taking up so much time.

Not taking more than 1 game at a time now.

Sooo, who won that other game and any highlights?

I discovered that your site searchers can sometimes get assassinated after finding death sites. That ended up with me losing my pretender in year 1. Also, Bandar Log desperately wants magic scales.

[Aeson]

I discovered that your site searchers can sometimes get assassinated after finding death sites. That ended up with me losing my pretender in year 1.

I don't think that there are any assassination events specifically for finding a death site, though there are a number of assassination events associated with a variety of sites of a variety of different paths, and not all of the assassination events require that the site be known in order to trigger.

Also, Bandar Log desperately wants magic scales.

I don't know if I quite agree with "desperately." They definitely like a magic scale to boost their default lab monkey, but even without a magic scale Yogis are still pretty cost-efficient at 55 gold recruitment and 22 gold annual upkeep for 7 research, and Gurus are mostly usable - though certainly not ideal - for kickstarting your research or rushing down to an early research goal. There are a fair number of nations worse off in the research department, and some of them - such as Agartha - don't really have anything that's all that much better than what Bandar Log has out of the box.

[Knaight]

I don't know if I quite agree with "desperately." They definitely like a magic scale to boost their default lab monkey, but even without a magic scale Yogis are still pretty cost-efficient at 55 gold recruitment and 22 gold annual upkeep for 7 research, and Gurus are mostly usable - though certainly not ideal - for kickstarting your research or rushing down to an early research goal.

The commander recruitment points hurt a bit though, and that 7 research also makes them extremely susceptible to magic scale changes. Magic 1 is a 14% boost to research, Magic 2 a 29% boost, Magic 3 a 43% boost. Gurus push all of those numbers down a bit, of course, but they're still pretty high.

[The Hellbug]

They really want to hit Conjuration targets fast, though, to get those sacred summons rolling.

[Aeson]

The commander recruitment points hurt a bit though, and that 7 research also makes them extremely susceptible to magic scale changes. Magic 1 is a 14% boost to research, Magic 2 a 29% boost, Magic 3 a 43% boost. Gurus push all of those numbers down a bit, of course, but they're still pretty high.

I didn't say that Bandar Log doesn't want magic scales, I said that I don't quite agree with the statement that Bandar Log desperately wants magic scales.

Also, the commander point cost of a Guru is the same as the commander point cost of a Yogi. If you're worried about commander point costs hurting your mage recruitment by comparison to recruitment of Yogis, you're probably thinking of the Rishis.

They really want to hit Conjuration targets fast, though, to get those sacred summons rolling.

If you want to rush for a specific research target, you're somewhat incentivized to go with the mage with the highest research per commander point rather than the mage with the lowest recruitment/upkeep cost per research point - all the more so since you need to have a decent gem economy to support summoning anything in significant numbers. A relatively big non-STR mage like a Guru will ramp research output faster per commander-point than a smaller, more gold-efficient research mage/communion slave like a Yogi, will probably get the gem economy going faster than the smaller mage (Gurus at S2N1 will probably find on the order of 2.5 times as many sites per mage-turn spent manually site searching as S1 Yogis will), and is more likely to be able to cast the spells you're trying to reach than the smaller mage (Gurus can cast Summon Asrapas and Summon Gandharvas out of the box while Yogis would need an S booster or an empowerment to do the same, though if you're going for Yakshas and Yakshinis you'd need a Rishi with the right random or your pretender, and you'd also need a lot of N income to fund the summonings).

Obviously, you have to balance this against gold investment in your army and into infrastructure, but because big mages tend to be better than small mages at getting a (relatively) large amount of research and site searching done quickly and are (relatively) less affected by Magic scales, Magic is not necessarily the best single scale for rushing for specific early research goals, and if you're trying to rush out sacred summons like Bandar Log's, you might be better served putting your design points into gold scales and a decent bless than cutting back on something to pay for Magic scales. Apsaras are pretty decent, as far as early-game sacred summons specifically and especially as far as early-game summons in general go, but in the early game even as low a cost as 3 pearls and an S2 mage-turn for 3 Apsaras will make them somewhat difficult to mass, their attack skill is mediocre, they're size-3 units with a single fairly weak attack, and defensively they're only particularly good against things that have difficulty getting past their +4 Awe (which, granted, is quite a lot of things; even elite units usually don't have enough morale to be mostly-unaffected by Awe +4 in melee).

[Grif]

Don't know if it's llama derping again, but I cannot hand in my turn.

[Nadevoc]

Llamaserver's been acting up tonight - I haven't been able to submit my turn either. And now it lists no active games.

[deuterio12]

Damn, I've already seen llamaserver have some troubles now and then, but never all games just disappearing. Hopefully he can restore them, otherwise welp.

[deuterio12]

And the games are back up in the llamaserver site. Sent in my turn and after some 20 minutes got the confirmation e-mail.