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2018-02-07, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
This is a good point. I think I've undersold Prodigy in the current hierarchy of feats. The opportunity cost for taking it is still relatively high, but it's still pretty versatile, especially if you use it to improve Athletics. In fact, it's a great feat to take at level 1 for Variant Humans. I'll change my description to reflect this.
Last edited by Legimus; 2018-02-07 at 01:15 PM.
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2018-02-07, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Hmm. I love Prodigy and in particular love Athletics expertise, but on OoC? I think I'm with your original thought that the oppty cost is way too high.
Paladins are starved for ASIs/Feats. If you want to do the Athletics/Shield Master combo on a variant human, that's great, but you're still investing two feats to make it happen, and don't get an ASI until 8. Plus, you either invested in a Str build (meaning you need even more ASIs, being MAD), or you dipped Hexblade for a Cha build (meaning you're SAD, but you're worse at Athletics because you didn't boost strength, and you're getting all your ASIs one level later).
If you want Shield Master, I'd say go for it on a vHuman, but the double expertise of Prodigy isn't strictly necessary and costs a lot. Plus, besides shoves, the other great thing about Athletics Expertise is grappling, but considering OoC's fear aura does the lockdown for you, grappling isn't all that attractive; meaning you're getting less of a boost from the feat than pretty much any other subclass.
In the odd case where you're rolling for stats and got awesome cha and str both, then yeah you can probably squeeze it in without feeling too much pain.
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2018-02-07, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Goiás, Brazil
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
If you are playing AL, you are limited to Player's Handbook +1. Playing a Conquest Paladin x/Hexblade1, I can't take Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade as cantrips. Looking at Xanathar's, there's reprints of Create Bonfire, Toll the Dead and Thunderclap.
Settled for Create Bonfire and Chill Touch. Chill Touch does necrotic damage, and some enemies resist it. But the utility of preventing enemies recovering HP for a turn, and specially imposing disadvantage to attacks from undead, sounds more useful than 1-2 extra damage from Eldritch Blast. Create Bonfire is a nice source of damage, illumination, and obstacle to enemies. And figured I can grapple someone and force him on the fire. Both already paid off as we faced lycanthropes and trolls. Toll the Dead and Thunderclap are good too, but both produce loud sounds, while I can snipe enemies with Chill Touch.
But if you take both Toll the Dead and Thunderclap, you can really call yourself a TANK.
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2018-02-09, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Opportunity cost is, indeed, high, but you don't need more than middling strength if you're taking Prodigy, the double proficiency bonus will leave you as good as and then better at athletics then people with higher strength even at low levels. It's without prodigy that you need a high strength to make shield master work.
Last edited by ShikomeKidoMi; 2018-02-09 at 01:45 AM.
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2018-02-09, 05:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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2018-02-11, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2018
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
First of all, great guide. Thanks for the effort!
Only some observations:
I think Divine Soul sorcerers (at least) deserves a sky blue rating. Access to Spirit Guardians alone it's a must have for a Tyrant Sorcadin. Too bad that is hard for him to afford the Simulacrum/Wish shenanigan.
Under Half-Elf you could add the access to Elven Accuracy feat and, with the Sword Coast's Moon and Sun Half-Elf variant, access to one Wizard's Cantrip (aka Booming Blade).
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2018-02-12, 01:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2017
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Hey, thanks! I'm glad that you like it. And thanks for pointing out the Storm Coast subraces. I'll have to remember to look at that when I update the guide next.
Regarding Divine Soul, would you mind explaining more why you think it deserves a higher rating? There are many useful cleric spells, but that's where its luster ends in my opinion. Favored by the Gods isn't that useful since you're already adding crazy CHA to all of your saves, and Empowered Healing won't see much use because your best and easiest healing ability is almost always going to be Lay on Hands, which doesn't use dice rolls. So if you multiclass into the Divine Soul sorcerer, you're really just doing it for the cleric spells. And I'll grant there's a lot of utility to be found in that spell list. Bane, Sanctuary, Warding Bond, Mass Healing Word, and Spirit Guardians come to mind. That last one takes concentration though, which causes some conflict unless your foes can't be frightened (and it puts your party at risk).
Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to be gained. But I just don't see anything groundbreaking. If you're trying to be a tank, you'll be reluctant to sink that many levels into sorcerer because (a) you'll miss out on a lot of HP, and (b) you can't afford to give up ASIs. If you want to play a full-on sorcadin, I think that the other oaths offer much better combinations.
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2018-02-13, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2018
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Are there any magic items that work well for conquest?
Mace of Terror seems like an obvious choice but the damage is terrible.Last edited by asradur; 2018-02-13 at 02:26 PM.
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2018-02-13, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
I would suggest (though I may be wrong) that due to smiting, damage dice for the weapon is not the most important bit. though not having access to GWM does hamper, it works just fine if you're sword and boarding and going for control rather than full smash.
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2018-02-13, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
IMHO, armor/shields with +1/+2/+3 are always good choices. You can't go wrong with a higher AC. Other special types of armor (invulnerability, of resistance) and shields (arrow-catching, animated) also make you a better tank.
Items that improve your Ability Scores (Amulet of Health and Gauntlets of Ogre Strength are some examples) are good choices too, though I can't recall any that improves your CHA score besides the Ioun Stone.
But I'd strongly recommend both the Ioun Stone of Reserve (which will store a spell of up to 3rd level until you cast it) and the Pearl of Power (retrieves a spell slot up to 3rd level once, rechargeable on the next dawn), giving you two extra casts of Fear.
Remember that most of the best items require attunement, limiting you to up to three of them.
Hope I have helped in some way!Last edited by Iron Frog; 2018-02-14 at 09:27 AM.
"Bend your knee! While you still have a knee to bend!
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2018-02-14, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
You can read the book that gives you +2 to any stat depending on the book. As for conquest anything to increase your AC or save roll is king for this class because you are going to be up in the face of a lot of monsters at times holding them with fear. Basically anything to make you more tanky while you control the field the better. Honestly playing conquest I truly see it as sword and board. There are much better oaths out their if you want to GWM it up
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2018-02-14, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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2018-02-14, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
I like the guide. A little thing I just realized is if you go the Yuan-Ti race you can eventually lock your opponents down immobile with your channel divinity and cast cloud kill around yourself. You're immune to the poison, they can't move, it's a pretty good slaughter fest.
I am the flush of excitement. The blush on the cheek. I am the Rouge!
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2018-02-14, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-02-14, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2017
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2018-02-15, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Can do the same as a non yuan ti if you’re lucky enough to find a periapt of proof against poison
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2018-02-21, 10:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2018
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
New to the forum thanks to this amazing thread! I am new to DnD aside from a few 1 shots and some pvp matches where my friends helped build my character. I'm really loving the conquest paladin and would love to play it for Curse of Strahd. This is where I'm having issues. Because CoS is such a low level campaign is the conquest pally worth building? After reading I'm seeing a lot of mixed reviews about the hexblade multiclass. I thought it may be a useful addition for a low level build for the campaign.
So I guess here are my questions
1. Is conquest pally acceptable for CoS?
2. Fallen Aasimir or Human Variant
3. Multiclass for SAD or Pally only?
Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!Last edited by br1nx; 2018-02-21 at 11:01 PM.
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2018-02-21, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Below level seven, conquest pally is basically 'just' a paladin. Slightly weaker channel divinities than most, though still decent, oath spells on the betyer end, but mostly you're the same heavy armor wearing, smiting, healing melee weapon guy as most paladins. The only real difference is that you might raise cha with ASIs before whatever your attack stat is. But paladin is one of the better base class chassis, so there is no reason to be unhappy with that.
The issue with conquest pally in curse of strahd is that a lot of the tougher enemies that syart showing up right around the time you're coming into your own with aura of conquest are immune to fear. Enough aren't that you'll still get use out of it, but it can be a bit frustrating.
As for the other questions, there really isn't a right answer to them. Conquest pally gets big boosts at every level, so you can absolutely go straight paladin. That said, hexblade has a monumentally overstacked first level, so the one level dip is worth it as early as level 2. Level 1 even, if you prefer medium armor for aesthetic reasons. And the hexblade's curse in particular gives you something to do in fights against lone, tough, fearless guys layer on.
A distinct down side that you might not recognize at first is that you really want, bordering on need, warcaster if you dip hexblade, where as a straight pally can ignore it and actually max out their cha mod by level 10 instead. Then again, warcaster also gets you opp attack booming blade, which is a great tanking ability against those fearless guy.
On the OTHER other side, athletics is a really good skill for conquest paladin. I regularly find myself trading attacks for shoves. A cha primary multiclass will likely lack in that regard, though not TOO too much, since you still need 13 str to multiclass, and the single classed conquedin doesn't raise attack stat in heroic tier.
So yeah, its really up to personal preference here. Single classed strength primary gets conquest stuff a level earlier and is generally a bit better at the fear and aura stuff, at least in the levels you'll be playing at, due to not spending an early asi on warcaster and having a better athletics skill. Non-dip can also change weapons up on the fly for some reach. A back pocket whip in particular is nice. Hex dip, on the other hand, while being locked into a single melee weapin, is more generally versatile, having a decent ranged attack, slightly better all round damage after they're able to boost cha, much better damage in boss fights with hexblade's curse, and is less fear dependant for control with opp attack booming blade.
In CoS I'd kind of lean in favor of the dip, for the extra tools against fearless opponents, but it really is an open choice.
As for assimar or human... close call either way. A vuman dip can go 13,14,14,8,8,16, and take warlock at level one with warcaster, wear medium armor, and still max cha by level 10. A human no-dip can go 16,8,16,8,8,16, with heavy armor master, which is amazing in a 1-10 game, and also max cha, though they'll still be hitting with a 16 str at level 10. Can even sack con down to 14 to play without a mental stat penalty, which I know can be a roleplaying hang up. Hard to say which I'd prefer between the two.
Fallen Assimar can do 16,8,14,8,10,17, with or without dip, which is amazing if your gm allows the UA menacing feat. The skill feats seem to be abandoned content, though, so I wouldn't count on it. Barring that, the only half feat for cha available to you is actor, which gets a big giant shrug from me, so you might as well drop cha doen to 16 to get either 10 dex or int or 12 wis. The racial features are still great in themselves, mind. Once again, it comes down to an aesthetic choice.
That said, IF you decide to dip, consider the half elf. Can go 16,8,16,8,8,17, dip at level 2 or 13,14,14,8,8,17 dip at level 1 wearing medium armor, either way nabbing elven accuracy at level 5, letting you still max out your cha by level 10, and giving you trivantage (with prone being your primary source of advantage), potentially with 19-20 crits from hexblade's curse to smite with.
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2018-02-22, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2018
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
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2018-02-23, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
While Dwarves are already awesome on their own, they really shine in a Hexblade multi, as they can ignore the Strength requirements for heavy armor, meaning you can neglect your Strength even more, leaving it at 13, and going pure Charisma.
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2018-02-23, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.
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2018-02-24, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
I am not referring to vampires, skeletons, zombies, or ghouls here. Without getting into specific spoilers, yes, the tougher enemies I am referring to, the ones that show up usually a bit later in the campaign and, depending on how the dm runs things, can be a recurring thorn in the party's side and among the harder repeated combat encounters, are actually immune to frighten.
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2018-02-24, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Well that's why I asked are you sure. I've seen quite a few people carrying over assumptions from earlier editions. If you are sure then I can only assume that the tougher enemies you are referring to are.
SpoilerConstructs as they typically are immune to being frightenedLast edited by Lord Vukodlak; 2018-02-24 at 01:41 AM.
Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.
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2018-02-24, 02:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Has anyone tried teh conquest paldin yet? I whould love to hear what the experience was like.
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2018-02-24, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
If you really want to know
SpoilerTowards the end of Curse of Strahd, you fight a lot of constructs and adventure specific undead. Some, but not all, of those new undead are immune to frighten and all the constructs are. However, there are other high level enemies that aren't immune.
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2018-02-24, 02:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Not getting into spoilers. Not confirming or denying, just going to say a lot of creatures have individual immunities. Fear immunity in particular is more about particular creatures than broad categories.
The point is, some of the harder fights at least from my time through that campaign were outright immune to frighten, however they came by that immunity. That doesn't mean you shouldn't play a conquedin, there's still plenty that isn't immune, and most of the campaign will come before level 7 anyway, as the game only runs 1-10, if that.
Just be sure you do have a plan for fear immune monsters, and a good knowledge skill specialist in the party to spot immunities for you, if your dm does that, because if my experience is any indication it will come up.
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2018-02-24, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
I'm currently playing a conquest paladin 7/divine soul sorcerer 5. Though taking levels in divine soul negates that advantage somewhat, the conquest paladin has a great oath spell-list. Armor of Agathys sees plenty of use, as does spiritual weapon. I also use hold person against humanoid VIT's (very important targets), and if it sticks for a round, that person will die because you get to auto-crit smite their face off.
Being able to reduce someone's speed to 0 can also be very useful, especially if you have a GM that is more permissible of shenanigans. In a battle in my last session we where up against a couple of Wyverns, I managed to frighten one while we where 120 feet up in the air, and my DM ruled that it would start falling because it couldn't move anymore. I used a readied action to make sure I followed it down to the ground so it wouldn't fall out off my aura, and it took a heap of falling damage. Of course, stuff like this very much depends on your DM.Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays
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2018-02-24, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
The plan for fear immune is: You're still a paladin and you smite your problems.
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2018-02-26, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2018
Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Thanks for all of the pointers everyone! So I decided to go with the following. We had to build for standard array points spend. That made it a little harder.
Base points were
15/12/13/8/10/14
I took the Scourge Aasimar Race to get +1 Con +2 Cha(15/12/14/8/10/16). and I really liked the abilities and flavor of the race overall.
We started at level 3 so I'm starting with Paladin 2 and Hexblade 1. I think I'm going full Paladin for the remainder of the campaign unless I do a Sorc 1 dip as well. Not sure yet.
I tool the Mage Hand, and Toll the Dead cantrips. We played our first session last night and it was a lot of fun. This thread was extremely helpful! Just wanted to come back and update what I decided to do and say thanks!
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2018-02-26, 02:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Wall of Fear: A Complete Guide to the Oath of Conquest
Loving the guide; I really want to play a Shield Master Conqueror now. One thing I'm wondering about; you say this in the 'What is Fear' section (emphasis mine):
Line of sight is not based upon actual sight in 5e, nor does it require a target to be facing you. So long as a mostly-unobstructed line can be drawn between the two of you, frightened can apply. See DMG pg. 251. Enemies who cannot literally see you, are not facing you, or have abilities like Blindsight will still be afraid of you.
I'd also like to note that among all the other amazing things Hexblade does, it gets you access to the Shield spell, one of the best defences in the game. Not only can you cast that from your Warlock slot(s), you can also cast it from your Paladin slots, so you're liable to be very difficult to kill.
One thing I'd also mention for Shield Master is that the opponent resists using an Athletics or Acrobatics check, which will be with disadvantage because of your Fear. Coupled with the prone-lockdown of your aura, the enemy is liable to be in a very bad position with no way out.