The Elder Scrolls XIV: Good? Bad? I'm the one with the Thu'um!

[Spore]

Most of Skyrim's quest only allow the Lunk Approach so pacifism was doomed to stop at one stage or another.

[LibraryOgre]

Heh. My Khajiit has been low-conflict at least, for a little while. SOP is "Summon Dremora Lord then spam Stoneflesh until I run out of Magicka" because I'm trying to build my Alteration. Curse the college for putting the alteration trainer on a quest!

[Triaxx]

You could try the hostile goats near Largashbur. They'll only flee, but still count as being in combat.

Detect life in Riften also works beautifully.

Alternately take some Frost Salts to Drayvnea in Kynesgrove and she'll give a free point and train you. (Expert)

[The_Jackal]

Heh. My Khajiit has been low-conflict at least, for a little while. SOP is "Summon Dremora Lord then spam Stoneflesh until I run out of Magicka" because I'm trying to build my Alteration. Curse the college for putting the alteration trainer on a quest!

It's tedious, but transmute spam on a bunch of iron ore will both level your alteration, and equip you with a substantial amount of cash.

[Anteros]

Heh. My Khajiit has been low-conflict at least, for a little while. SOP is "Summon Dremora Lord then spam Stoneflesh until I run out of Magicka" because I'm trying to build my Alteration. Curse the college for putting the alteration trainer on a quest!

If your version of low conflict is summoning demon lords to murder people then I'm not sure I want to know what you do when you want trouble.

[LibraryOgre]

If your version of low conflict is summoning demon lords to murder people then I'm not sure I want to know what you do when you want trouble.

Khajiit does not start trouble. Khajiit finishes it.

[Sajiri]

So I've not played Skyrim in quite a while now, not since I last set up a fresh install with mods, only to have it crash constantly despite being careful. Kinda put me off playing, then I got a new job and forgot all about it.

Today I finally uninstalled it, and instead installed SSE, hopefully I can resist my compulsion to overmod everything. With that said, I can think of a lot of essentials that when glancing at the Nexus I've seen have been updated (Ordinator for one), but I specifically want to know of any mods that make the game more challenging but just, not completely brutal. I think I want to play a pure mage this time, so I'll get a few spell pack mods. I'd like to make dragons tougher but my experience with various dragon mods has always been they become annoyingly invasive and overrun the land (which apparently wasnt happening to others) and constantly oneshot me.

[Triaxx]

Ordinator + Apocalypse is pretty much enough to make a mage not only viable, but enjoyable. And in just about any combination you might like. Destruction master, summoner, illusionist.

Difficulty seems to be all or nothing sadly, though Wildcat and Smilodon are two mods that are very similar, but Smilodon's slightly easier because of how it implements things. It's bonus damage system isn't nearly as nasty as Wildcats.

[Balmas]

Well, Chadwick's finally got to the point in the Dawnguard Questline where Serana reappears. Once more, I find myself despairing of all the dialogue choices I'm not allowed to have. She shows up, and Isran is understandably upset, and demands why we should trust it or follow its instructions. Honestly, Chadwick's on the same side there--Serana has been nothing but a whiny pain in the butt. She's withheld information left and right. She's given Chadwick zero reason to trust her. So Chadwick opens his mouth, ready to say "by all means, stake it to the wall," and instead I find I have no choice but to say, in effect, "Yes, she's my friend, and I believe her, and we should totally trust her and do what she says."

Gah. Dawnguard is just painful. "We need to gather not one, but three elder scrolls, and then get a moth priest who just happens to be here in Skyrim despite that there's no reason to come here. Then, we need to either promise our soul--which is made of dragons, and we kind of need that for saving the world from total annihilation--to a bunch of people infamous for screwing over people who promise them souls, or become a vampire, to get another elder scroll. Then, we need to get high on magic moths in hopes that the super-dangerous scroll won't totally blind me and render the Dawnguard's most potent fighter totally useless. And then, I need to spend another two hours traipsing across a divine-forsaken bit of ice and valley that's too big for its own good, to finally gain access to a bow that I'll use in one fight and then never again.

What's that? You wanted to just burn the doors down, so you can skip all the bulls*** and just kill Harkon? Silly boy, that'd be simple, easy, and an efficient use of the Dragonborn's time. We can't do that until the DLC has overstayed its welcome by a good two hours.

[NEO|Phyte]

Strictly speaking you don't promise your soul to the Ideal Masters, you just soul trap a little bit of yourself.

[The_Jackal]

Gah. Dawnguard is just painful. "We need to gather not one, but three elder scrolls, and then get a moth priest who just happens to be here in Skyrim despite that there's no reason to come here. Then, we need to either promise our soul--which is made of dragons, and we kind of need that for saving the world from total annihilation--to a bunch of people infamous for screwing over people who promise them souls, or become a vampire, to get another elder scroll. Then, we need to get high on magic moths in hopes that the super-dangerous scroll won't totally blind me and render the Dawnguard's most potent fighter totally useless. And then, I need to spend another two hours traipsing across a divine-forsaken bit of ice and valley that's too big for its own good, to finally gain access to a bow that I'll use in one fight and then never again.

What's that? You wanted to just burn the doors down, so you can skip all the bulls*** and just kill Harkon? Silly boy, that'd be simple, easy, and an efficient use of the Dragonborn's time. We can't do that until the DLC has overstayed its welcome by a good two hours.

I think it's possible you're taking this all a bit too personally. Me, I liked the Dawnguard arc. The Snow Elves were cool, the stuff you fight in the valley is cool, and the items you get from finishing the quest are pretty cool. While I'll concede that Bethesda's writers are a bit too fond of railroad-y stories (What's that, Nocturnal? You want my soul before I clean up your idiot followers' screw-ups? How about you drop dead?), I think when you're into playing a Elder Scrolls title, the last thing you get to say is, "I've got better things to do", because you demonstrably do not.

[Balmas]

Strictly speaking you don't promise your soul to the Ideal Masters, you just soul trap a little bit of yourself.

Maybe so, but isn't soul trapping a human soul exactly how you end up an eternal slave in the soul cairn anyway? I don't exactly trust the Ideal masters not to go "mmm-mm, taste that? Dragonborn soul. Let's make sure to keep that little chunk."

I think it's possible you're taking this all a bit too personally. Me, I liked the Dawnguard arc. The Snow Elves were cool, the stuff you fight in the valley is cool, and the items you get from finishing the quest are pretty cool. While I'll concede that Bethesda's writers are a bit too fond of railroad-y stories (What's that, Nocturnal? You want my soul before I clean up your idiot followers' screw-ups? How about you drop dead?), I think when you're into playing a Elder Scrolls title, the last thing you get to say is, "I've got better things to do", because you demonstrably do not.

Aye, maybe so. Thing is, I really want to like Dawnguard. It's got some of the coolest set pieces in the game, some cool-looking items and armor, and some of the better boss battles besides. But every time I look at it, or, more accurately watch it on LPs, I'm struck at the absolutely abysmal quality of the writing. Any "wow this area is cool" moments are swallowed up by "Wow, this plan is super dumb." And then the writers add insult to injury, and make my character be the one to approve of this plan.

As a writer, you should never force a character to agree to a plan, or to give them no choice but to come up with a plan. When the game tells you, "this is what your character thinks," it's like a smack in the face to any kind of roleplaying. It's bad writing to the point that the idea that Chadwick's being mind-controlled into saying these things makes more sense to me than "Yeah, this hotheaded moron who doesn't think through his actions is totally willing to give this monstrous vampire anything more than the time of day."

I think when you're into playing a Elder Scrolls title, the last thing you get to say is, "I've got better things to do", because you demonstrably do not.

*snerk* Okay, that's actually a fair point.

[NEO|Phyte]

Maybe so, but isn't soul trapping a human soul exactly how you end up an eternal slave in the soul cairn anyway? I don't exactly trust the Ideal masters not to go "mmm-mm, taste that? Dragonborn soul. Let's make sure to keep that little chunk."

Well I mean if you're really worried about it you can always steal it back while you're there.

[veti]

My headcanon is that Serana put the ol' vampiric domination or hypnosis or whatever it is on you, the moment she emerged from the obelisk, and that's why you're literally incapable of not cooperating with her.

To those three scrolls: what annoyed me most was when I realised that one of them is completely redundant. You never use it in the quest - but you have to collect it anyway, or you can't progress. That, I thought, was where the railroading graduated from "excessive" to "just plain silly".

[Keltest]

My headcanon is that Serana put the ol' vampiric domination or hypnosis or whatever it is on you, the moment she emerged from the obelisk, and that's why you're literally incapable of not cooperating with her.

To those three scrolls: what annoyed me most was when I realised that one of them is completely redundant. You never use it in the quest - but you have to collect it anyway, or you can't progress. That, I thought, was where the railroading graduated from "excessive" to "just plain silly".

Don't you pull out all three of them to form the map for Auriel's Bow?

[Triaxx]

Or you let Serana Vamp you and keep it all, but that's not a Very Chadwick Route either.

And yes you need all three to get the map to Auriel's Bow.

[factotum]

My headcanon is that Serana put the ol' vampiric domination or hypnosis or whatever it is on you, the moment she emerged from the obelisk, and that's why you're literally incapable of not cooperating with her.

That doesn't explain why Isran is so willing to go along with the whole thing. I mean, you come back from your very first mission for the Dawnguard having *not* staked the vampire you found during it, and your only excuse is "She had an Elder Scroll!"--and his immediate question isn't "So why didn't you stake her and take the scroll off her corpse?". Not only that, but he's willing to send you out again on missions that imply a fairly high level of trust! Now, some of that can be ascribed to Bethesda not believing that anyone would stick with the Dawnguard when OMGBBQ vampire powers are there to be had, but it doesn't stop it being bad writing nonetheless.

(I suppose we should just be thankful that they at least allowed you to complete the questline while staying on the Dawnguard side--if the writer who wrote the Nuka-World DLC for FO4 had written Dawnguard, not accepting Harkon's offer would have put you onto an alternative path where the only option was to go back to his castle and kill everything inside!).

[The_Jackal]

Aye, maybe so. Thing is, I really want to like Dawnguard. It's got some of the coolest set pieces in the game, some cool-looking items and armor, and some of the better boss battles besides. But every time I look at it, or, more accurately watch it on LPs, I'm struck at the absolutely abysmal quality of the writing. Any "wow this area is cool" moments are swallowed up by "Wow, this plan is super dumb." And then the writers add insult to injury, and make my character be the one to approve of this plan.

No doubt. The way you know the writing is terrible is that the worst possible outcome for Harkon's plan is that it will work.

As a writer, you should never force a character to agree to a plan, or to give them no choice but to come up with a plan. When the game tells you, "this is what your character thinks," it's like a smack in the face to any kind of roleplaying. It's bad writing to the point that the idea that Chadwick's being mind-controlled into saying these things makes more sense to me than "Yeah, this hotheaded moron who doesn't think through his actions is totally willing to give this monstrous vampire anything more than the time of day."

Again, I don't dispute this, though you can certainly go with the "Red Harvest" angle, ie: You're just playing one group of idiots off of the other, and intend to make out like a bandit yourself. That's certainly how I played it. But I generally agree that most Bethesda plots don't work very well if you're trying to roleplay someone with principles.

[veti]

Don't you pull out all three of them to form the map for Auriel's Bow?

Nope. Dexion reads the scroll Serana had, and you read the scroll you recover from the Soul Cairn in the - moth place. But the quest also forces you to go through all the rigmarole of recovering the scroll you need for the main quest as well - you know, through that endless Dwemer ruin that leads to Blackreach - and you never so much as open that one.

[Triaxx]

You do, inside the Ancestor Moth Cave. The first one brings up a partial map. Then you pull out the other two to complete it.

[Keltest]

No doubt. The way you know the writing is terrible is that the worst possible outcome for Harkon's plan is that it will work.

I thought that was the point? That Harkon was short-sighted and so obsessed with it that it didn't even occur to him what the consequences for it would be? Hence why you kill him even when you side with the vampires.

[Anteros]

As a writer, you should never force a character to agree to a plan, or to give them no choice but to come up with a plan. When the game tells you, "this is what your character thinks," it's like a smack in the face to any kind of roleplaying. It's bad writing to the point that the idea that Chadwick's being mind-controlled into saying these things makes more sense to me than "Yeah, this hotheaded moron who doesn't think through his actions is totally willing to give this monstrous vampire anything more than the time of day."

I think that's a pretty unrealistic expectation. I agree that it would be better writing if you could always forge your own path and make your own plans in games, but it's not necessarily always bad writing to force you down a set of rails. Even mostly open ended games like Bethesda makes are attempting to tell you some level of story to keep you invested, and that requires placing you back on their rails from time to time. If it's too much, you can also always roleplay that your character is lying.

What I call bad writing is when the only options your character can choose between are mind numbingly stupid. It's not the lack of choice that makes the writing bad here...it's the bad writing itself that highlights your lack of choice. A well written story might only give you a few options, but you don't even notice because your options make sense, and you would choose them anyway.

[LibraryOgre]

Nope. Dexion reads the scroll Serana had, and you read the scroll you recover from the Soul Cairn in the - moth place. But the quest also forces you to go through all the rigmarole of recovering the scroll you need for the main quest as well - you know, through that endless Dwemer ruin that leads to Blackreach - and you never so much as open that one.

And you have to carry that ****ing 20 pound monstrosity. Like, I'm wandering Skyrim with an ELDER SCROLL and can't think of any place to put it.

[Calemyr]

And you have to carry that ****ing 20 pound monstrosity. Like, I'm wandering Skyrim with an ELDER SCROLL and can't think of any place to put it.

Depends. You big on mods? There are a few housing mods with stands for the Elder Scrolls you collect. There's something pretty satisfying about having a room decorated in Daedric artifacts, Black Books, and Elder Scrolls. There are also mods that let you wield an Elder Scroll like a mace. Talk about using fate as a weapon...

Otherwise, the orc running the library at the mage's college will buy the Dragon Scroll off you, though I think you need to get far enough into the main quest to use it first (the scroll is key to learning the Dragonrend shout).

Once the fight with Harkon is settled, Dexion will offer to buy at least the Blood and Sun scrolls off of you, and possibly the Dragon scroll if you've also learned Dragonrend. I don't know that one for sure.

Also note that you can sell Dragon to the mage's college before starting Dawnguard. To borrow it back you need to make a hefty cash donation.

That said, however, I do not believe quest items count towards your actual weight, though it's been a long while since I've played an unmodded game to test that out. The second the weight becomes an issue for you, you should be able to kick them from your inventory.

[halfeye]

That said, however, I do not believe quest items count towards your actual weight, though it's been a long while since I've played an unmodded game to test that out. The second the weight becomes an issue for you, you should be able to kick them from your inventory.

In Oblivion, quest items always had zero weight, in Skyrim some don't have zero weight (I think some do, I could be wrong on that).

[mythmonster2]

In Oblivion, quest items always had zero weight, in Skyrim some don't have zero weight (I think some do, I could be wrong on that).

Skyrim quest items appear to have a weight, like the Elder Scrolls weighing 20 units, but they don't actually count against your weight until they become non-essential, which I don't know if the Elder Scrolls ever do.

[Sajiri]

So in my quest to find all the mods I want and not be over-zealous with it, it's taking several days to set up SSE (work isnt helping me here). I've decided I really want to find spooky, creepy, thrilling, basically anything that could fall under a 'horror' tag for skyrim. Does anyone know of any good ones? I know I've seen videos about horror quest mods before, but I dont remember what any of them were, they were quite a long while back. I've been looking into Mihail's monster mods which has some great creepy scary things in there, but Im not sure what else.

Also to point out, Im Australian. Spiders and snakes dont scare me

Edit: also another question. I've been looking up oldrim mods and converting them to sse...if my understanding is correct, if they don't require SKSE and arent BSA's, they should be fairly easy to convert and use right? So if there are mods for armors, or retextures, or NPC makeovers I should be able to use them?

[DigoDragon]

Also note that you can sell Dragon to the mage's college before starting Dawnguard.

I misread that as "you can sell Digo to the mage's college" and I think that's one of the scariest factions to get sold off to, if the Midden is anything. O.o

In Oblivion, quest items always had zero weight, in Skyrim some don't have zero weight (I think some do, I could be wrong on that).

I vaguely remember the Elder Scroll of the main quest actually costing you 20 wt of carry capacity even when an essential item, as I have a mod that corrected it to 0 weight. This was before anything that the DLCs might have updated...

[Kareeah_Indaga]

That doesn't explain why Isran is so willing to go along with the whole thing. I mean, you come back from your very first mission for the Dawnguard having *not* staked the vampire you found during it, and your only excuse is "She had an Elder Scroll!"--and his immediate question isn't "So why didn't you stake her and take the scroll off her corpse?". Not only that, but he's willing to send you out again on missions that imply a fairly high level of trust! Now, some of that can be ascribed to Bethesda not believing that anyone would stick with the Dawnguard when OMGBBQ vampire powers are there to be had, but it doesn't stop it being bad writing nonetheless.

Don't forget the bit where Isran doesn't even bother to check if you're a vampire until a few missions in. You'd think he'd perform that little test when you first join...

[Triaxx]

Not necessarily, since he was looking for Vampire Hunters, but then realized later that Oh, right, having been exposed to vampires they might have been bitten.