The Elder Scrolls XIV: Good? Bad? I'm the one with the Thu'um!

[Keltest]

On another note: I tried ESO on a free weekend for half an hour. It was boring but I feel that was no fair assessment. When do you get to pick your class and/or skills? How does the game do its f2p model? Is it EA/Bioware style that you have subscription PLUS cash shop? Is it Black Desert Online that you buy the game and the cash shop for visuals and almost required for PvE/PvP?

ESO is a one time fee to get access to the base game. You can buy additional DLC zone/story content that adds new zones and a couple of new PvE skill lines that are mostly flavorful, and the Morrowind expansion adds a new class. Theres also ESO Plus, which is subscription based and gives you access to all the DLC, a separate inventory space for crafting supplies, a monthly supply of the real-money-analogue currency, and the ability to dye cosmetic costume changes, which normally only come in the base color. You also get an XP bonus.

The cash shop is pretty much limited to the DLCs, consumables like potions and XP boosts, and cosmetic items. Nothing that actually out-performs any of the F2P obtainable stuff in the base game.


For character creation, you pick a class on creation that gives you access to three class skill trees, and there are also skill trees for each type of armor, each style of weapon (ie sword and board, dual wield, bow, etc...), legerdemain (ie lockpicking and stuff), and guild lines for the Fighters and Mages guilds and a general adventurer's guild called the Undaunted. Unlocking the skill tree for gear is as simple as killing someone with the requisite gear line. It is entirely possible to create a viable and effective character for PvE or PvP that doesn't use any class skills, although a lot of them are cool.

[DigoDragon]

Has anyone else run into the problem where, if you kill a dragon at a named spot (i.e. Go back to Bonestrewn crest), the dragon will, for some reason, not have a soul for you to devour? I've had this happen a couple times, now.

I remember that was a thing when I played, but for me, the first time I fight a dragon at a named spot, I get the soul. On subsequent fights, no soul.

[Triaxx]

According to the UESP wiki it seems to have something to do with activating a container as the Dragon dies, such as the Dragon itself I assume.

Of course it's one of the things the Unofficial Patch is supposed to have solved.

[halfeye]

I tend to go with a Breton mage every time in all the games. It seems to me that the difference between breton and high elf is like the difference between the birthsigns of apprentice and mage, the apprentice has higher power, but has a lot of weaknesses that essentially negate that, whereas the mage has slightly less power, but no significant magical weaknesses.

[Spore]

Imperials on the other side, are kind of the perfect character for a thief. That vanilla everyperson shape of who they are, combined with the naturally greedy power, and the ability to talk their way out of trouble, means that you can get away with things you wouldn't normally be able to attempt, while also being able to easily loot all the chests for a lot more gold than normal.

That's....actually genius. I often hoped there was a more cool workaround to save-scumming for my thieves.

[Aeson]

Question: Is there a race you almost never - or at least seldomly - pick? Mine is Wood Elf. Even before I knew they are ritualistic cannibals I just found them incredibly dull. You could be a dark elf (without the incredible over-the-top matriarchal society and a god for-the-evulz), you could be a high elf that is an expert in all things magic. Or you know. You could be a savage, eating people because you are the actual anti-vegetarian.

I only rarely play Argonians, Dunmer, and Khajiit, myself.

It seems to me that the difference between breton and high elf is like the difference between the birthsigns of apprentice and mage, the apprentice has higher power, but has a lot of weaknesses that essentially negate that, whereas the mage has slightly less power, but no significant magical weaknesses.

Depends on the game.

In Morrowind, a character who casts a lot of spells needs more than just the Fortify Maximum Magicka +0.5xInt from the Breton racial ability or the Mage birthsign, and neither the 50% Weakness to Magicka from the Apprentice birthsign nor even the Altmer's racial 50% Weakness to Magicka, 50% Weakness to Fire, 25% Weakness to Frost, and 25% Weakness to Shock are all that bad (though the Altmer's racial elemental weaknesses are bad enough that I wouldn't say that Altmer are strictly better mage chassis than Bretons in Morrowind - just mostly better, especially if the skill bonuses happen to align with your character concept, because the racial 50% Resistance to Magicka ability and Dragon Skin power are fairly situational, and +0.5xInt maximum magicka isn't really enough by itself). Resistance and Weakness to Magicka don't matter a whole lot most of the time, because the effects affected by them are not particularly common or aren't very threatening by the time you're likely to encounter them. (Of course, considering that this is Morrowind, if you want to go for a character who casts a lot of spells you should just take Atronach instead, because Stunted Magicka is almost irrelevant, 50% Spell Absorption gives you not-quite-reliable immunity to magic even if you have weaknesses to all kinds of magic and lets you recover some magicka in the field, and Fortify Maximum Magicka +2.0xInt is the best magicka bonus you can take at character creation.)

In Oblivion, a character who casts a lot of spells can just about get by on baseline maximum magicka and natural magicka regeneration (at least until enemy HP out-scales spell cost reduction), and the Apprentice's 100% Weakness to Magic became a much more severe drawback (and the Breton's racial 50% Resistance to Magic became a stronger bonus) with the change to make Weakness/Resistance to Magic affect all hostile magical effects rather than just the non-elemental magical effects. On top of that, the magicka bonuses offered by the Apprentice birthsign and the Altmer race became weaker relative to the magicka bonuses offered by the Mage birthsign and the Breton race, further skewing the vulnerability-for-power trade-off in favor of minimizing vulnerability.

[Triaxx]

I played an amusing thief in Oblivion. A Khajiit thief called Bad Jedi who knew one spell type. Mind Trick a progressively stronger Fortify Personality spell. Bad Mind Trick, Weak Mind Trick and so on up to Bombad Jedi Mind Trick. (Phantom Menace had just come out.) The last one had weakness to Magic in it so each cast made it progressively stronger.

[Calemyr]

Hey guys, question for all my fellow mod-maniacs for Skyrim Special Edition:

Is anyone aware of any (preferably good) mods that grant the Dragonborn a... well... dragon form? Preferably as a player-only werewolf mod. It's always bugged me that the Dragonborn can't become more draconic beyond their use of the Thu'um, and I really think a heteromorphic effect like lycanthropy or vampirism might mutate to reflect the dragon nature of the character.

See, I'm looking to start up a fresh run of the game with the intention to make them more and more draconic as I play in powers and attitude. Gaining the ability to literally to transform into something draconic would be the perfect capper.

[Balmas]

If you're doing the classic edition, you might consider More Draconic Dragon Aspect. Gopher does a highlight of it in this video. It's not quite what you're looking for, maybe, but it could be a good starting step.

[Triaxx]

I believe there's also a patch that gives it compatibility with the older mod so you can fly.

[Calemyr]

Sadly, I did say Special Edition. Tough luck for me, I suppose.

[T.G. Oskar]

Well, with Miraak unceremoniously dispatched (seriously - I gotta do another Warrior/Paladin run, this time with an Imperial, *without* Fortify Restoration hijinks, because one-shotting Miraak and being essentially immortal from anything but falling is just sick), I decided to semi-retire my Warrior character. Feel like I can't do that much further, and with some stuff essentially blocked (the totems, for example), exploring what little there's left won't add to the fun.

Creating a new character, however, and playing differently does. And thus, the Khajiit thief Dar'ryihl is born. Super-slim, with very dark fur mottled with some white patches, white-haired with the most vicious mutton chops you can see. As I mentioned, he's going full Thief, mostly going with Sneak, Archery, One-Handed (for dual-wielding), Light Armor, Pickpocket and Illusion spells, plus Alchemy for poisons.

It's fun to play hide-and-pepper-them-with-arrows with him, on Bleak Falls Barrow. Not as fun when the Restless Draugr with a greatsword is tanking you like a boss, but that's a novice mistake. Gonna see if I can get him to Riften ASAP and get into the Thieves' Guild. Also curious to hear how a male Khajiit does the Shouts...

[factotum]

If you're doing full Thief then you should really be looking at actual backstabs rather than ranged shenanigans--walking up behind someone and one-shotting them with your 30x backstab crit is hella fun. (You need the gloves that give you 2x backstab damage to achieve that, note).

[T.G. Oskar]

If you're doing full Thief then you should really be looking at actual backstabs rather than ranged shenanigans--walking up behind someone and one-shotting them with your 30x backstab crit is hella fun. (You need the gloves that give you 2x backstab damage to achieve that, note).

Baby steps. I'd need to have Sneak high enough, muffled footgear and a ton of Sneak perks to pull that off. Meanwhile, hit & run with stealthy shots is easier to pull, and you can go marksman (or should I say markscat?) with only one Archery perk.

Sure, I'll go with Sneak more than anything, since it's the skill that increases my level the most ATM, but I also need to diversify a bit. Sneak makes me an assassin, Pickpocket makes me a thief, and the extra carrying capacity and easier time stealing gold should make that skill level up faster.

[adamlevine]

oh...haha...thanks

[LibraryOgre]

Hey guys, question for all my fellow mod-maniacs for Skyrim Special Edition:

Is anyone aware of any (preferably good) mods that grant the Dragonborn a... well... dragon form? Preferably as a player-only werewolf mod. It's always bugged me that the Dragonborn can't become more draconic beyond their use of the Thu'um, and I really think a heteromorphic effect like lycanthropy or vampirism might mutate to reflect the dragon nature of the character.

See, I'm looking to start up a fresh run of the game with the intention to make them more and more draconic as I play in powers and attitude. Gaining the ability to literally to transform into something draconic would be the perfect capper.

I'm guessing you're looking for something more comprehensive than Dragon Aspect?

[Spore]

Hey guys, question for all my fellow mod-maniacs for Skyrim Special Edition:

Is anyone aware of any (preferably good) mods that grant the Dragonborn a... well... dragon form? Preferably as a player-only werewolf mod. It's always bugged me that the Dragonborn can't become more draconic beyond their use of the Thu'um, and I really think a heteromorphic effect like lycanthropy or vampirism might mutate to reflect the dragon nature of the character.

See, I'm looking to start up a fresh run of the game with the intention to make them more and more draconic as I play in powers and attitude. Gaining the ability to literally to transform into something draconic would be the perfect capper.

There is always the option to play an Argonian even though lorewise they are more Lizardfolk rather than Dragon...

[Balmas]

So, Chadwick at this point has been working his way through the guilds of Skyrim. As a result, I've been putting my thoughts together on the guilds of Skyrim. I want to dedicate a post to each of them, to what I think is a weak point, and what could be done to improve them. While I recognize that the Companions, the college, and the Dark Brotherhood aren't guilds in the strictest sense, I'm going to refer to them as such because they fit the bill and the terminology is useful and familiar. For the first post, I think I should address two major weaknesses that all of the guilds share.

The first weakness I wanted to address is how quickly the Dragonborn progresses in each guild. Each guild takes you from being a novice member of the guild to being, for all intents and purposes, the guildmaster. I'd be okay with that if it were the culmination of a long chain of questlines, but in Skyrim becoming the master of a guild is mostly a matter of only a few hours' worth of questline. Take the Companions: going from novice to Harbinger requires to do only nine quests, of which three are Radiant quests. Such a quick progression robs the player of any sense of accomplishment in becoming the master of a guild.

Compare the super-quick progression of Skyrim's guilds to Morrowind's or Oblivion's guilds. In order to earn entry into the Arcane University in Cyrodil, any prospective guildmember would need to hike from one end of Cyrodil to the other, earning approval from each local guild leader. Only then could you even start to do the mage's guild questline. Becoming the leader of virtually any group in Morrowind would see you doing jobs for that guild all across Vvardenfell, promoting their interests, and generally developing your character to fit in with that guild. When you reached the rank of Master, it felt much more meaningful because you could look back at all the work you'd put in to reaching that point.

The second weakness, as I see it, is that Skyrim's guilds follow the same "anybody can do anything" mindset that pervades Skyrim. You don't need to be a good sneak or pickpocket to be a good thief. (In fact, I've been playing through Chadwick's run at the thieve's guild as the least subtle person who doesn't sneak ever to prove that point.) You can do the mage's guild questline without casting a single spell. If you sneak and assassinate your way through the Companions questline, nobody blinks an eye. All you need to do is have the decency to not stab anybody in your guild, and any character can do any guild quest.

It's like... Do you remember back in Oblivion, you did the thieve's guild quest? Do you remember how the prohibition on murder meant you actually needed to employ things like sneaking and illusion? Or how the Mage's Guild qualification quests were usually things where spells could make your life a lot simpler? I kinda miss having guilds that actually care about how you achieve their goals, and not just "did you follow the magic arrow and kill your way through N enemy of the dungeon."

I should probably wait to post this. You know, edit it, get a second draft, make a more coherent argument and maybe a conclusion paragraph, but I'm tired as it is and this is hogging my open window. Thoughts?

[Sajiri]

I often feel the same way about the skyrim guilds. Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood felt 'better' to me at least.

Spoiler: Thieves Guild

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In the thieves guild, they're in a bad way, and whether you sneak or not, you are still the one who fixes a lot of it's problems, discovers the truth of Karliah and exposes Mercer. Brynjolf seems like the obvious choice for guild leader after Mercer, but he makes a point (I think?) of saying how he is used to being 2nd in command and not a leader. I did feel like the dragonborn earned that position.

As for the dark brotherhood, well....

Spoiler

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Weren't there only two or three of you even left by the time you take over? Choices were a bit slim. I havent done that questline in such a long time though I barely remember it

Companions and College felt super forced to me. Obviously in the College you solve all the things, but you still clearly seem to be a 'student' all the way up to the end when they just suddenly decide you're the new archmage. Companions felt much the same way, even if there was a bit of prophetic visions on your side, it still felt really weird to have the newcomer suddenly become the new harbinger.

I do like that they're all accessible, but I do wish the skills relating to each guild were more important to the quests.

One day I need to replay Oblivion, but Im always just far too lazy to set up mods for it.

[factotum]

You can do the mage's guild questline without casting a single spell.

That's not quite true--you need flame and frost spells to align the doohickey you find in the Dwemer ruin partway through. Of course, scrolls of these will do just as well, and since any level 1 scrub in the game can cast fire and frost spells.

I would actually rather have that than being able to become the champion of the Cyrodiil Arena at level 1, as you could in Oblivion...

[Spore]

Agreed. Though I wish they would have done away with the whole guild stuff all together and mixed it up a bit. comapre it to Fallout 4's organizations. To join the Brotherhood of Steel you needn't be a technophile, you do not need to wear a power armor. You simply need to subscribe to their ideals and further their cause.

Now imagine if Skyrim did away with the hilariously pitiful initiation stuff. You do not need to reverse pickpocket Madesi. Finding the Ragged Flagon is enough. You do not need to swing a weapon at Vilkas, because just maybe they need someone not vulnerable to Silver to deal with their affairs.

Make Aela a sneaky archer. Have Vilkas be a Speech trainer, with Tilma offering you potions and with Hearthfire, maybe food.

Make Rune be a blademaster, give the thieves' guild a mage that acts as enchanter and illusion trainer.

Let Arnbjorn be a twohanded trainer that promotes brutal onslaughts and gives you small favors for when you do an assassination with an additional criteria of instilling fear, like executing the target in broad daylight without being hidden. Let him give us werewolf specific hidden perks.

For a game that prides itself on the mix and match playstyle you are awfully centered around single "classed" guild questlines, Skyrim.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Agreed. Though I wish they would have done away with the whole guild stuff all together and mixed it up a bit. comapre it to Fallout 4's organizations. To join the Brotherhood of Steel you needn't be a technophile, you do not need to wear a power armor. You simply need to subscribe to their ideals and further their cause.

Now imagine if Skyrim did away with the hilariously pitiful initiation stuff. You do not need to reverse pickpocket Madesi. Finding the Ragged Flagon is enough. You do not need to swing a weapon at Vilkas, because just maybe they need someone not vulnerable to Silver to deal with their affairs.

Make Aela a sneaky archer. Have Vilkas be a Speech trainer, with Tilma offering you potions and with Hearthfire, maybe food.

Make Rune be a blademaster, give the thieves' guild a mage that acts as enchanter and illusion trainer.

Let Arnbjorn be a twohanded trainer that promotes brutal onslaughts and gives you small favors for when you do an assassination with an additional criteria of instilling fear, like executing the target in broad daylight without being hidden. Let him give us werewolf specific hidden perks.

For a game that prides itself on the mix and match playstyle you are awfully centered around single "classed" guild questlines, Skyrim.

Yea, but you never become the head of the Brotherhood chapter either. Think about it. You join the brotherhood only because Danse puts his honor (and, at least implied, his life) on the line to speak for you, and they're in the need for competent boots to pound some pavement, otherwise you wouldn't have so much as gotten in the door. You can only advance up to... what, Paladin? Congratulations, you're an NCO. That's it. That's as high as you can climb in the Brotherhood in FO4. In F:NV, that's as high as you can get too, and that's AFTER you basically save the whole chapter, and even THEN, there's plenty of people who are hostile to the idea (and will confront you over it, and over Veronica's concern over the Chatper's stability as well).

Granted, you end up General of the Minutemen by default. Congratulations, you're the chief. Chiefly because there IS no one else in the Minutemen, and I'd rather not take that title, if it's all the same, because it's synonymous with painting a big huge target on my back if the past few weeks have been any indication.

You never get a chance to be the leader of the Railroad either, although you do become a respected independent agent. And you only become leader of the Institute because your son is the current leader and abdicates in your favor because he's dying of old age and doesn't trust the rest of the council. Which is the whole reason he had you woken up to begin with, by the way. So you literally wouldn't have woken up if this plan wasn't already in action, so consider trope inverted.

None of the Guilds in Skyrim are anywhere close to the 'one person side' that the Minutemen literally are when you rescue Preston Garvy. They should not be nearly so ready to simply accept your leadership position without a hell of a lot more. No one is already plotting to put you in power since the start of the game... well, at least in charge of the various Guilds anyway, Mr. Dragonborn.

[Triaxx]

Counter argument: Both the positions of Arch-mage and Harbinger, are not actually leadership roles. Arch-mage is a powerful respected member, but the Master Wizard is who runs the place.

As for Harbinger, it's less a command position, and more an advisor. Being a stealthy thief style warrior, makes you no less capable a Harbinger, just a craftier one.

[veti]

That's not quite true--you need flame and frost spells to align the doohickey you find in the Dwemer ruin partway through. Of course, scrolls of these will do just as well, and since any level 1 scrub in the game can cast fire and frost spells.

Actually there are several other places in the mages quest where you need to cast spells, starting with one to get you over the bridge into the college to begin with. Then you have to cast a ward in your first lesson, you have to cast something on the wall in Saarthal when you put the amulet on, and you have to cast again to breach Ancano's force wall. And there are those doors in Labyrinthian.

I've played that quest too many times...

[DigoDragon]

I should probably wait to post this. You know, edit it, get a second draft, make a more coherent argument and maybe a conclusion paragraph, but I'm tired as it is and this is hogging my open window. Thoughts?

Even unedited it made a good deal of sense.

Actually there are several other places in the mages quest where you need to cast spells, starting with one to get you over the bridge into the college to begin with. Then you have to cast a ward in your first lesson, you have to cast something on the wall in Saarthal when you put the amulet on, and you have to cast again to breach Ancano's force wall. And there are those doors in Labyrinthian.

Well, you could attempt to use Speech to bypass the bridge test, and then use the Spellbreaker shield during the lesson.

[Triaxx]

A recognized Dragonborn can also get in. Firebreath works on that wall in Sarthaal.

[factotum]

Well, you could attempt to use Speech to bypass the bridge test, and then use the Spellbreaker shield during the lesson.

You can actually bypass the bridge by using a Shout, which is not technically magic. The others I'd forgotten about.

It's worth noting that the Dark Brotherhood questline probably makes the most sense in this regard--you're already the Listener of the Night Mother, all the other likely leadership candidates are killed in the attack on the Falkreath sanctuary, and the Skyrim Dark Brotherhood is pretty darned small to start with, so why not have you as leader? The Thieves' Guild questline is such a horrible mess that having you become the Guildmaster at the end of it is just par for the course, really.

Of course, both Oblivion and Skyrim have suffered from Bethesda's determination that any character should be able to do anything in the game regardless of how much sense that makes. Progression in the guilds in Morrowind was restricted by your skill level in the relevant skills, so you couldn't become high in the Mages' Guild without concentrating heavily on magical skills--I'd rather it worked like that now, but I don't think Bethesda will ever do that again.

[veti]

Well, you could attempt to use Speech to bypass the bridge test, and then use the Spellbreaker shield during the lesson.

Yeah, but either of those requires you to be highly experienced and/or festooned with artifacts before you start the process. If you really want, you could also use staves to shape the crystal. But that's just playing silly b****rs for the sake of it. I would call it a strength, not a weakness, that the requirements are sufficiently flexible to allow such workarounds.

Don't get me wrong, I think the mages quest is all kinds of credulity-defying dumb. But I take issue with the claim that you don't need to cast anything to complete it.

[Keltest]

Yeah, but either of those requires you to be highly experienced and/or festooned with artifacts before you start the process. If you really want, you could also use staves to shape the crystal. But that's just playing silly b****rs for the sake of it. I would call it a strength, not a weakness, that the requirements are sufficiently flexible to allow such workarounds.

Don't get me wrong, I think the mages quest is all kinds of credulity-defying dumb. But I take issue with the claim that you don't need to cast anything to complete it.

Given that the whole point of staves is to allow non-mages to have some magic at their disposal, using a staff is definitely cheating, given that youre allegedly there to learn freaking magic. Its like using a BIC lighter to start a campfire when youre supposed to be doing it from scratch.

Anyway, I think the Dark Brotherhood quest is reasonably well done. The player is outright the Chosen One, and that still doesn't get you the leadership until you also go through and prove youre the most dangerous assassin of them all by killing the emperor (twice!) and slaughtering your way through his agents.

[Calemyr]

I'm guessing you're looking for something more comprehensive than Dragon Aspect?

Dragon Aspect is worked in already, and I've got a mod that makes it a toggle instead of a short buff.

There is always the option to play an Argonian even though lorewise they are more Lizardfolk rather than Dragon...

The thought had occurred to me, and there's some satisfaction to be had in having an Argonian save the day when everyone treats them so poorly. (I mean, it's pretty much been a constant in the franchise. Even Khajit get more respect.) But the character I'm envisioning is a transformative process. Starting as an Argonian wouldn't be evolution, just poetry.

Spoiler: Character Concept: Basil Zachary

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Basil is the last survivor of the Zachary line, a family of minor Breton nobles. With Skyrim teetering on the brink, High Rock's future is in flux. Without Skyrim, High Rock will have no contiguous roads to the Imperial Province, which has heightened the province's political climate to cutthroat levels. As staunch Imperialists, the Zachary family was wiped out by rivals looking forward to a new future independent of the Empire. Basil escaped, losing his remaining entourage in the process, and fled for the Imperial Province in the hopes that Skyrim was still Imperial enough to be a safe path. It wasn't.

Basil's an enthusiastic student of "acontemporary magical arts", which is just another way to say he is effectively an arcane hipster - favoring disciplines and techniques that are not widely embraced, such as channeling spells through weapons (as spells rather than enchantments) or learning and refining old, forgotten spells. Unsurprisingly, he quickly becomes enamored with the Thu'um and, in order to feed said fascination, becomes an eager adventurer and dragon hunter. At the start, however, he's a rookie who's only real skill is his "spellblade" style - a mode of combat that's crippled by his lack of training with weapons or combat magic. Despite his lack of power, his enthusiasm and creativity allow him to survive. At first, at least.

While he ultimately collects a half-dozen or so allies, his closest partner is Caesia (a mod companion): a Breton woman with a rapier wit, a traditionalist approach to magic, and an exceedingly low opinion of nobility. Those who see the two together tend to think that it's a relationship that's destined to lead to a wedding or a funeral. Or both. Most likely both.

With the aid of the Blackthorn mod, Basil will build his own house and ultimately an entire town in the Rift, which will serve as his base of operations and housing for his friends.

As he collects more shouts (and dragon souls), his nature will become more draconic, going from a timid, dispossessed refugee to a driven, relentless power-player. I'm still trying to work out his costume, but his weapon is probably going to be the Jimonji form the Japanese Weapons mod. Despite being a spear, it is the closest thing I can find to melee staff in the SSE mods.

This run has been largely inspired by the anime Overlord. The main character, Ains, is a conceptually interesting character. Of particular interest to me is the combination of a human mind in an undead body and how they shape each other, which got me thinking about how being a dragonborn (an especially active one at that) would alter the nature of a person. So take a broken young man, stripped of his family, his status, his home, and pretty much all hope, and then let the dragon inside him out to play and see what evolves...